Justin, how much did the hydroboost setup run you in total...?

 

... that's what I always like to hear. Good job!

By the way, did you make the changes that Chris (Fast355) told you to in the tune?

 

I bought a kit which was expensive way to do it. Was like 495 but it was new unit. Braided line and fittings about 200. Hydraulic shop likely could do the rubber style hose for much cheaper. I also changed to 4th gen master for the screw on cap reservoir.

Its an awesome system tho. Reallly works.

 

EBL-P4 is just incredible, I don't know what more I can say about it. With the wideband in, and with the VE learns completed in both modes, the damn fueling is just spot on. Waiting to install the torque converter actually helped with the VE in certain areas, but the torque converter is going in next right after the final touch is applied to the hood (clear coating). Speaking of which, this is the only picture I have of it taken from my cell phone. This picture was right after the preliminary cutting. The whole process is not a cake walk, lots of welding and strengthening going on under the hood, the screens were tack welded in first though, then welded in the support. When I post a recent picture of it finished and painted, you'll see that I removed a lot more from the front two heat extractors. Came out pretty freaking good...

 

nice job! looking good, like the hood!

 

Hell yea! Looks way better than my vent, lol

 

Lethal,

Looking good man, I can't wait to see this thing on the track! EBL is amazing , I love it too. My 80lbs injectors should be here Thursday and I'm looking forward to playing with tune.

Keep up the good work!

 

car looks great, you gonna do any touch up on the front and give it a buff to make it all shine once all is said and done?

 

Guys, thank you for all of your compliments, hearing you guys say that is extremely rewarding, especially from fellow members. With the hood finished, and everything painted black, you can still see inside the engine bay through the cut outs and mesh grills. I want to incorporate a lot of chrome under there as well, as I will be buying a chrome radiator upper cover, I'd like to see if I can find some chrome (or polished steel or aluminum) coolant and wiper fluid reservoirs. I decided to get a blow off valve after all (red anodized w/chrome), and that too will be seen through one of the cutouts, and will be heard even louder thanks to the openings, as well as chrome/polished steel strut caps. Will definitely touch up the front paint, I'm just waiting to finish having to get underneath the car, as I might scratch the front during the torque converter install (gonna be a driveway install this time, unfortunately)...

Edit: Really wanna show you guys the rear spoiler I am working on, but I will wait until the fiberglass part is all the way done, your gonna love it...

 

I took my time with my vent and still warped the hell out of my hood on 3 sides. Even took breaks to let it cool. Oh well, thank god its not a show car, lol. Itll be awhile before I can get another hood anyway. Itll take lots of body work to fill, cant even budge the dents out from the bottom side. But like I said, im not too worried about it, no way you can tell at 60mph, lol.

 

I hear you. When I tack welded the screens in underneath, I literally had my finger on the trigger for a fraction of a second, and just worked my way around with about four to five inches of space between the tack welds. I also used liquid weld to reattach the top of the hood to the structure underneath the way the factory did, as the stock liquid weld was dried up and falling off from the vibration as I was cutting the holes...

 

The Murphster is ready to run, gotta get my butt in gear now too. Not sure what size injectors, or what size turbo he ir running (either a stocker, or a T49 disguised as a stocker), as all I know right now is that he is running an enhanced Turbo Tweak chip... but either way, he is assuring me it will be a close run lol. We shall see, Murph.

 

Lol I think not ...

91' bird 305 TBI T-5, trick flow 175 cc heads, 4.10 gears, lots of suspension upgrades. 24mpg @ 2500rpm hwy. 8.80@ 84mph 1/8th on street tires... 8.000's soon

 

... and I would have to agree with you.

 

any particular reason he used a gn engine?

 

I used to have a short wheelbase 1976 C10 with the 250 straight 6 and 3 on tree with factory 3.40 posi ... I loved that truck ! It had 62k documented original miles on it when bought and I had ALL original paperwork , window sticker, invoice, build sheet, owners manual, original title , first title application, all maintenance records and a lot more and all papers were all in perfect condition.. Had 88k when I sold it for double what I paid .. Kick myself every day for selling ... But my dream was always to build that straight 6 out the yin yang with boost and all forged internals etc. And throw a t56 behind it with some 4.10's ... "Kick me hard".... Twice. ....and the bad part is i see it at least 3 times a week dude lives a block away from me .... F***, s***,d***,b****, h*** ... I want it back so bad :-/ ... I go by there about once a month to BS n just c what all he's done to it ... But anyway enough of my sob story at least it went to a good home

91' bird 305 TBI T-5, trick flow 175 cc heads, 4.10 gears, lots of suspension upgrades. 24mpg @ 2500rpm hwy. 8.80@ 84mph 1/8th on street tires... 8.000's soon

 

He is apart of a North Eastern Grand National group, so everything is Buick LC2 oriented as far as their concerned, although most GN guys are now adopting LSX engines into their G-Bodies, which is hilarious. He also has a nine second '87 White T-Type as well, and him wanting to run this C-10 w/LC2 project against my GTA is his way of saying that 3rd Gen F-Body's are slow. So now I am debating if I should run him with the GTA in reverse to make it a little more fair lol...

 

I know the feeling, I had a '72 Monte Carlo, all original, w/454 and automatic that I sold like a freaking fool, it was Green w/Green vinyl interior, staple shifter, bucket seats. It was beautiful. Keep ranting and kicking myself now, that was some car. I still have videos of it from back during the mid to late 90's if you guys wanna see it, just lemme bust out a box of kleenex first lol...

 

Got home late last night, had no time to work on the GTA all weekend. Was out tinkering on it late last night, when I suddenly hear the horse sneeze of a nice sounding turbo charged engine pull into my driveway. It was my buddy Paul with one of his Grand Nationals. Gotta tell you the truth, he helped me to finally put an end to my idle woes, as I didn't realize how off the stock LB9 bin that I was working with really was when it came to a camshaft this big. I was living with the way I had it setup, but now the transition from Park to Drive, Drive to Park, is seemingly flawless. IAC steps being at 65 is absolutely no big deal. Problem was though, at key on, the IAC steps only went as high as 75 in the LB9 bin, which was the problem. Didn't even notice that, as I made the assumption it would go full open with key on. Anyways, with that adjusted, along with a few other transtional areas, the damn engine starts, idles, and transitions like a stocker now even with this big of a camshaft. So at least that part is done. The hood is pretty much done too, problem with it though is with the amount of welding that I did to the structure underneath it, it is actually more heavier now than it was stock. I think I am going to use the fabbed hood for car shows, and just buy a fiberglass one for when I race. Nothing too gawdy, in fact I would run a plain Jane firebird fiberglass hood if I could, and if they made them...

 

When u gonna get this thing on the track ?

91' bird 305 TBI T-5, trick flow 175 cc heads, 4.10 gears, lots of suspension upgrades. 24mpg @ 2500rpm hwy. 8.80@ 84mph 1/8th on street tires... 8.000's soon

 

Soon hopefully, work is just very very demanding lately...

 

any news lately?

 

Unfortunately only bad news, one of my close childhood friends passed away this weekend. Stepped away from the major mods on the GTA for a little bit, as I have been tuning here and there just to dial it in some more, but stopped with the fiber-glassing. I promise to pick up where I left off soon. Think the main thing is to get back to the original premise of the thread, and that is to run the number of my goal, and that is nine seconds. The rest of the dress up mods can wait until after the video of the run, dyno and picture of the timeslips have been posted. Will update soon...

 

Sorry to hear that Rob, don't rush on our account, take all the time you need.

 

Thanks Will. Anyone who lives in the Queens area, or New York in general, and heard about the NYSD dept worker who was killed last week, that was him. Knew Steve since I was six years old, he leaves behind a beautiful wife and four adoring kids. It's been a horrible week...

Today I had some time in between BBQ's and figured let me get a datalog. Not even thinking straight, as the SA table was off in the 100-KPa area, and timing was pulled down way before hand. Lost another check valve in the process, damn thing went flying about two blocks once I was about to hit 2-psi, so I just let off the throttle. You can see where the SA is hovering right around 113-KPa (1.95-psi), it is way too low for not even two pounds of boost, should be right at around 30 degrees at that point, instead its at freaking 18 degrees. Just went into the boost tables and corrected that, but I won't go for another datalog until later tonight though. IAT's are high because I had the engine idling for awhile before driving, and it's freaking in the 90's today...

 

Fixed...

 

145-KPa (6.75-psi), O2's too low, Injectors almost pegged. Need to put those larger injectors back in, and to raise the VE a tad. Spark advance seems better now in boost. Disregard the battery up front, having minor issues finding an area in the back that I can agree with. Don't wanna put a kill switch back there either, but I have to, eventually. Traction is not there, brakes don't hold for anything. Video and datalog below, IAT's are high because idling for awhile...

 

I'll put things into perspective for those who don't know what they are looking at. At 143-KPa (6.45 pounds of boost), the duty cycle was at 96% (with lean O2 reading as well), just about max capacity for these 30-lb injectors I am playing with. This puts FWHP at approximately 385 at 6.5psi, but I can't raise the boost because the injectors are too small and are pegged. Now, I have another set of injectors that are rated at 60-lb's which are going in next, and at 80% duty cycle, this should net me around 650-FWHP, and if I max them closer to 100%, they will put me closer to 800-FWHP with boost pressure being somewhere between 15-20psi. Not bad for an anemic TPI-305. Nine second time slip will be here in the next month or so...

 

My 36lb injectors started to max out when I had that 15psi boost spike, duty cycle at 9.5psi is now at a max of 44% on my duty cycle, though I think it was the fuel pump and not the injectors. Fuel pump will be the next thing getting upgraded.

Looking good though, sounds like you'll make some pretty killer power with that 305. Sounds pretty good too, I like it. Ill have mine tuned soon, just gotta renew my license so I can drive and tune though.

 

My old turbo 305 setup pegged the injectors at around 12-psi, 28-lb injectors, with bigger valves (1.96), 218/218 cam, and similar TPI setup. Now I am pegging larger 30-lb injectors at half that boost pressure thanks to an even bigger cam and lot of head work (smaller 1.86 valves). Also, the GTA should weigh closer to 3000 pounds (w/out driver) when all is said and done, so if Justin keeps that Iroc of his at that 3700-3800 pound mark, I just may call him out for some fun runs...

 

I'd like to c what my heads would do on ur motor ... Or my motor in ur car :-o on about 15 psi lol

91' bird 305 TBI T-5, trick flow 175 cc heads, 4.10 gears, lots of suspension upgrades......... 24mpg @ 2300rpm hwy 65mph ........ 8.63@ 85mph 1/8th on street tires... 8.000's soon

 

You read my mind, as I am thinking of slapping on some aluminum heads with some 1.96 valves after I run the number with these ported iron heads. Remember too, that this is with a stock size throttle body, and stock size TPI runners, despite me siamesing the rest of the TPI setup. I let go of the throttle at 5750 RPM, but RPM would have kept going and going had I stood in it. The tires were spinning as soon as I applied the throttle in that video, and I tried easing into it slowly, but that didn't help as the traction ship has clearly sailed, gotta work on the traction issue soon...

 

Ugh my car is a pig. But good news is trans is getting close to being done at the shop. Gonna stop down tonight after work.
Close to end of the year i want to make a trip down MIR or one of those tracks. Just for fun lol maybe we can meet up

On side note if all goes well and right, i may have a 91 z28 305 car soon lol its getting a code $59 treatment single budget turbo

 

either one of u guys i have a NIB procomp hsr for sale in the classifieds for a price u cant resist

 

If i get the car i will let you know if you still have it by then. Its all dependent if my ls1 car sells. Sooner that happens sooner one of my two choices in cars ends up in my garage. But i am considering sticking to the tpi for awhile as i need it cheap as possible

 

It shows 240 gm/sec which is 31.7 lb/min. 31.7*10 = 317 FWHP.

Your injector DC probably takes into account open/close time. If so, that means you are assuming full fuel flow at those points which is in correct. The track will give you real HP numbers. Taking a long time to get that ECM tuned though. Why did you undersize the injectors when you had better ones to put in?

 

Grams per second? Am I running a MAF sensor? I am well aware of my wideband readings despite not being embellished in the EBL WUD, so I know exactly how much fuel I am burning in conjunction with where my KPa is reading at that exact moment, and MAP readings and fuel consumption do not lie. Appreciate the response though...

 

Would definitely like to meet up one day this year, car's been taking a little too long to get finished on my side, and I have to apologize to you guys for that. Main reason for the injector issues on my part is I cracked a 60-lb injector while I was seating down the fuel rail because it wasn't seated correctly, damn fuel started puddling all over the intake manifold when I started it up awhile back. Got the replacement, just am too bothered by having to pull the plenum back off to put them in. Figured I'd dial it in with the 30's, then install the 60's, followed by compensating in the bin, which takes a second to do...

That is awesome, I say go with the EBL-P4 though, it is freaking awesome!

 

Your ECM is measuring airflow. No need to install a MAF too.

What it the equation you are using to convert WBO2 AFR to FWHP? Maybe some parameters are estimated different and that is why your AFR HP estimate doesn't match your ECM Airflow HP estimate. Best to use the track in the end.

A new boost version of AUJP is in the works.............

 

Junk, I appreciate your thoughts, but I know all this already. I mentioned above I will have my slip to my goal in the next month or so, and I am periodically keeping this thread updated to let everyone know where I am with it. Patience...

 

Been waiting on that for years... Will we see a copy because it be far easier to use on a stock lb9 than code $59.

 

... lol, was gonna tease him and say that very same thing when he stated that my tuning is taking a little long to dial in. I was gonna say; umm, so is your boost code, Junk.

 

Did the orig code back in 2006 because I couldn't get the $58 code to play nice with my engine. Lost that code to a failed hard drive, although I have previous revs that are 98% correct. When I went to the 427 ECM (truck) I wrote boost code for it. The original 730 ECM version was way more complex. Over complex. Learned with the 427 ECM code that the simple version worked just as well.

I have been messing with the tools for PCM stuff lately. Putting in two 2D tables (Boost VE mult vs MAP), and (Boost spark vs MAP) isn't that much work. Maybe a couple of weeks.
I would like to start with the latest V4 SAUJP as the base, but gotta get the other authors blessings I think.
It really is only about 50 lines of code or less to do boost (2 bar only). I am not a fan of 3bar on 0-5 volt input. Too much resolution lost. Although, 1 bar on 0-5v input and 3 bar on another 0-5 input is ok.

 

You guys keep trying to reinvent the wheel with code, just run the EBL-P4 and be done with it. Can't really get into what the folks at DynamicEFI are up to, but believe me, they are way ahead of the game. Awesome things are coming from them...

Nah, sounds too loud because it is an open downpipe, the exhaust is back off in that video, just wanted to update you guys. It will sound incredible once I get the catback back on. I cut the 3" intermediate inlet into the flowmaster muffler off and widened it to accept a 4" intermediate pipe, so basically it's a 3" downpipe into a 4" intermediate pipe, feeding into a now 4" inlet on a Flowmaster muffler, exiting from dual 3" exhaust pipes...

 

Lol, quit making me hate my 2.5 inch exhaust!

 

Didn't know that EBL finally does E-trans. Does it support both the 60E and the 80E? About time it does, used to have to run two clunky ECMs in parallel(tune two ECMs). I have been running E-trans with the '427 ECM for years and won't go back. You can adjust line pressure vs boost. Only direction now is to move forward to a PCM (SEFI, COP, E-trans, boost). Can't see going back to a ECM made in 1986 with an add on.
Good to know though.

 

I think your missing the point entirely, and I don't want to turn my build thread into some pissing contest. First of all, and it is sad to say, but the majority of the members on this forum don't have the money to invest in a 60E and/or 80E trans, most people talk and talk and it never happens. Just like LSX swaps, people swear they are better than SBC's, then say they are getting one, then spend the next year or two arguing in favor of the LSX yet still run the SBC because they don't have the funds to make the LSX swap happen. Second, Rauscher designed the ECM's to be compatible with what the vehicle originally came with. My EBL-P4 does everything my stock setup does, but it is flashed in of course, and is boost friendly thanks to the XDF, a la Bob Rauscher. It's cool that members are implementing newer technology into their 3rd gens, or older vehicles, but I for one would simply buy a newer vehicle if I wanted newer technology...

I'm sure the EBL-P4 system may have that as an option one day, but the demand simply isn't there yet to be cost feasible. The SFI-6 is getting major attention right now, and I for one know what is coming in terms of new features, and the members on the Turbo Buick boards have the money to create the demand and make it a reality. If the majority of 3rd gen members asked Bob for e-trans control, and had the money to put down to make it happen, I can assure you it will happen. But again, people either talk their builds, or dream their builds, and that essentially gets nothing accomplished, yet the guy hangs around to give full tech despite that. Now, I know that you had words with RBob in the past, but there is no denying that the man is a genius. EBL-P4 is a third of the cost of an XFI, does everything that an XFI can do in a stock drivetrain 3rd gen, and if EBL-P4 were to be given trans control, it would still be much less in terms of cost than the majority of systems that are out there...

K, back to the build thread...

 

Yeah not to derail but the 427 is an option for me if i get a roller car. I got the 305 tpi motor but I'll need a trans and wouldnt mind a 60e so if i ever do an lsx swap atleast the trans is ready to go. Else i am doin 200r4 or 700r4 again

Ebl is nice but not free. I already have 730's and harnesses

 

EBL-P4 is certainly not free, but then again most, if not all of the XDF's used to tune all the codes out there have RBob's stamp on them, and they are free. Most members don't realize just how deep he is involved in the tuning world, but thankfully I do. You guys can thank Rauscher and Plecan as they brought tuning here, even during the mail list days, hack after hack was being shared, and it all started with the Turbo Buick crowd. All of it. Anyways, again, I don't want to turn this thread into that kind of debate...

 

Hey man, your car is running good. I love EBL too, Rob has done an excellent job. But "too each its own". I hope to start posting my progress on my car next weekend. Some friends and I are going to SGMP in Valdosta, Ga. for a LSX vs. Everybody event on the July 12. Turning the boost up to 15lbs on race gas for that. So I'm dedicating a lot of time to tuning this coming week along with writing two papers for school.