built91Z28

I was thinking about starting an LS build, but have been considering a turbo on my current motor instead. I think it can handle the power level I'm looking at. I'm not expecting anything insane. A low 11 second car, maybe a very high 10 second is all I want. The car is 95% street car, only going to the track a few times a year. So it will rarely see WOT for an extended time. I believe that my current fuel system, carb, intake, heads, valve train, trans, and axle are up to the task. So basicaly I would just need to build the turbo system itself.

My question is this. I can get the dual turbo setup off a Ford 6.4 for free. Both turbos are good. I know this setup is huge, and was thinking about just using the larger of the two turbos. But just looking at it, even the big one looks kinda small. Is this turbo good for a little over 500 HP or not? I'm probably only looking at about 8 psi max. I think its all I would need, and I may not even need that much.

TwinTurboROC

Last i remember the bigger turbo on the 6.4 P\S was a Variable nozzle, and would take a good amount of work to be able to use it. Correct me if I am wrong someone?

built91Z28

It is variable, but removing the motor that controls it and setting it at a fixed place would be very easy.

TwinTurboROC

You can do that, But IIRC the setup is a vane changing design, and youll have to figure out mechaniclly what AR your gonna stick it at. I have no solid data for you about that specific turbo, I only have exp with them on the P/S motors with them working the way there supposed to. And even then its limited. Those turbos in the sequential setup run out of steam at around 500hp ish. I know alot of the guys swap out to a bigger wheel (on the smaller turbo).

It's a good idea you have, but honestly if your looking for a little boost like your said, someting in the 60mm range compressor wheel would put you right there. There are great choices from mangum turbo, precision, turbonetics, and even some good china copies that work great.

Remember with the ford stuff, you have to find parts to mate it up, specific flanges etc. Remember that will start tallying quickly on your budget.

project89

iTrader: (1)

just get an ebay gt45 for 300 bucks, though u could always play with the vanes on the ps turbo till u find a good comprimise between spoolup time and backpresure at higher rpms

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

The fact is that I'd bet that that PS turbo is probably in the low 6x mm range, so it wouldn't be a bad choice for a small turbo setup, but I believe that the vein setup is not as efficient as a standard scroll, so locking it in place you'll have something that works, but not as well as a similarly sized standard setup.

I'd love to figure out some way to manually control one of them, but haven't looked at one hard enough. Does anyone know if the veins are "big" enough to control boost without a wastegate?

huh... now you guys have me thinking about this... that's dangerous. Maybe I should snap up a PS or Holset HX351 or something and play a little...

built91Z28

Is this the kind your talking about project89? http://www.ebay.com/itm/HUGE-GT45-TU...3798fc&vxp=mtr

It's not too big for me? It says it's capable of up to 1000 hp. I'm only looking for a tad over 500. I have forged rods and pistons, but they're low end forgings so I dont want to push things too much.

My boss did give me the all clear to expierment with the Ford turbo. I'm just thinking now that if these E-bay turbos are decent enough, for only $260 and guarnanteed to be big enough, I may just do that instead. If the Ford one turns out to not be big enough then I'd have to cut off the flanges and redo them for a bigger turbo.

If I decide to play with the Ford one though, can I make flanges out of 1/4" steel?

built91Z28

I'm not going to lie. One of the things that really has me wanting to try the Ford turbo is that nobody has. What I like most about my car isn't racing it or driving it. Its building it and expierementing and trying things people dont think can work. Since I have the turbo for free, it may be worth a try. The only thing that has me concerned is that the compressor side inlet and outlet are pretty small. I'll take pics later today to show the dimensions.

project89

iTrader: (1)

that is the correct turbo, u would also need to buy the vband clamp and flange off ebay for 30 bucks as well.

the compressor wheel is 70mmind and 102exd iirc
as long as u dont have a 305 that turbo would work pretty dam well

most guys who use those on 350's and ford 302's report they are spooled up around 3,000 rpm

and that turbo will not do 1000hp with only one 600-750ish is more relistit


that turbo is basically a copy of the master power gt42 ,and there is a thread on the turbo forums about 60 pages long on the ebay gt45 showing how long it lasts and how good it works

just be aware that turbo is dam heavy and a lil on the large side

btw dont use 1/4 inch flanges use at minimum 3/8's or they will warp , u can also buy the turbo flanges on ebay for about 7bucks each imho its worth it to spend the 7 bucks then it is to sit there cutting out the flanges and drilling the holes

built91Z28

Thanks for the info. I have two sides in my head fighting each other right now. Part of me wants to expierement with the Ford turbos just to see if it works. The common sense side of me is wanting to do the ebay turbo because I know it will work. I'm about to pull the car in and see if there is physically enough room for the dual turbos anyways. If there isn't, then that settles which route I'll go.

I was only going to make flanges for the Ford turbos because I wasn't sure if I could actually find anything for them. If I do the ebay, then I'll definitely buy them.

And I definitely dont have a 305. I already have Canfield heads, Vic jr intake, mighty demon carb, solid roller cam, etc. My fuel lines are all 1/2" or -8 AN, and I'm already running a return style regulator with a boost port on it to compensate. My fuel pump can go up to 15 psi also. I'm running a MSD Digital E-curve distributor so playing with timing is very easy.

project89

iTrader: (1)

honestly id just use the gt45 and be done with it.

experimenting is fun but it gets old fast, and that ps turbo would prolly be more well suited to a stockish type motor

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

It can, I love to be the "challenge accepted" guy, but there are times I just want to drive my car(s).

TwinTurboROC

Mark, the larger PS turbo is in the 6X Range from what i understand. The Stock PS runs no wastegate, the VGT system controls boost. BTW they can achieve about 40-50 psi of boost on the PS during towning mode in dense cold air. I know someone who's running a VGT setup w a homemade DIY box to control the vanes. And i have heard of a few SVO guys running VNT turbos on the 4 bangers. I never asked enough questions, but the dude knows ALOT about mirco-circuitry and such. Honestly to get it to work, youll prolly need a control soloneid that comes with the PS turbo and find out what input and output it has, chances are its just like a IAC, or maybe even like a variable cam solonoid.

Honestly built91z28 i would just do a regular turbo. There's nothing wrong with having a setup like that. At the end of the day some things are not worth the time of having your car in pieces just to try to accomplish something that makes you different. Every time I put go fast stuff in my cars, I always keep saying, why did I not even keep it STOCK.

built91Z28

I thought about it a lot last night and I am going to do a normal turbo. Mainly since its only $260 on eBay for a regular one. Also because there is a meet I want to go to in October so I need the car drive able by then. And I still have a ton of other stuff I want to get done by then. And I'm training for another marathon so I don't have lots of free time to do it twice if the ford turbo doesn't work. I'll probably have the money for the turbo next month so I should be getting started soon.

TwinTurboROC

Sounds like a good plan. Since your gonna be doing it in a month, i suggest going through some of the posts on the power adder forums, there has been a nice surge of turbo builds recently. There are some great ideas out there.

built91Z28

I have a question about head gaskets for this. I know I'm going to have to swap them out. I'm running 4 valve relief flat top pistons right now with a .015 steel shim head gasket. I did this to get my C.R. close to 11:1. Obviously not good for boost. Using a calculator I found online, it says these will put me down to about 9.4:1. Which I think is ok for 6 psi or so that I plan on running (this is an ok c.r., right?) Are these gaskets ok for this? Reason I'm asking is because they are very thick. .070"

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CG...-070/?rtype=10

I should also say that for now I'm keeping my same cam. Which is honestly too big for my motor at the power level I'm looking at, but will help to bleed off some cylinder pressure since 9.4:1 is still higher than most guys like to be. The cam is a solid roller from Comp. 236 @ .050 with .550 lift. 110 LSA

I know alot of my stuff is far from ideal for a turbo motor, but I'm not looking for all out performance. I would love to ramp up the boost and make 700 hp, but I know my short block can't handle that. So I'm limited to about 550 hp, which is still pushing it some. My Eagle rods are rated at 500.

TwinTurboROC

You can run boost with high compression, your not gonna make as much power per cmf of air moved. Or PSI pushed. Also your gonna have to watch your knock and spark advance with the higher comp rates. But youll still make power. Boosted motors dont like to much cam overlap.

The gasket and CR of 9.4:1 is ok. Ever think about nitrous? You can easily attain your goals with some spray, with alot less work than a boosted setup. Unless you just want a turbo

built91Z28

Yea, I'm not a fan of nitrous. I want a turbo.

Drac0nic

Want pics of the Ford head unit, and any info you dig up on the controller. The pressure ratio will probably be high for a gasser, but hey you never know. If worse comes to worse I'd probably trade you a Detroit head unit straight up I have around or some Buick turbos or something.

built91Z28

Those ford turbos wouldn't have worked anyways. The end of them is resting on the wheel well. Plus after really looking at them, I found out that both have play in the bearings. So they aren't even any good. Oh well, I feel better about the eBay turbo anyways.

Kingtal0n

Dont try to reinvent the wheel. If you are on a budget just get something simple and easy to rebuild... like a typical 60-1 that is good for an OEM engine around or under 500 horsepower. Spend money where it counts... exhaust plumbing, make it easy to remove, easy to work on, pretty to look at, coat it or wrap it up, put a heat shield up and blanket the turbo.

Those are reliability concerns, and as Crossfire once told me, KISS.