83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

yea, i know, and I've picked on people about this before, but this one is actually real.

Though not much airflow, max 1.45 PR and draws 350amps (yes, 350A):
http://www.cpowert.com/products/vtes.htm

Impaqt

iTrader: (1)

How is it even possible to draw 350 amp continuous? That's insane.

project89

iTrader: (1)

there is also the one that drives an m90 iirc with 3 starter motors i dont recall the power draw on that unit though

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

how would you synchronize compressor speed with engine load/speed? I guess since normal belt driven blowers are just driven by engine speed alone, then you would somehow have a controller to increase voltage/amperage to the electric motor on the blower that gets its input signal from the tach pickup line? Or a crank sensor for rpm?

certainly you wouldnt want a 1.45 pressure ratio at 1000 rpm cruise speed in overdrive

Apeiron

I would imagine it's only active at WOT, and they wouldn't regulate compressor speed, they'd regulate manifold pressure with a bypass valve or something. Maybe an RPM-activated switch, as well.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

yeah that may work too. RPM switch would be the most logical, just like a nitrous system. Bypass valve method may require too large of a valve to really bypass all the flow but its hard to say. It may work, a large 60mm type wastegate does pass alot of flow. You could always run 2

Apeiron

Remember that thing's for little weenie engines, too.

project89

iTrader: (1)

i would imagine that the load on the motors would regulate boost levels.
each pound of presure would put load on the motor until the motor could no longer increase in speed

say the motor(s) have enough power to put out 14 psi tops.
so on a 1.8L honda motor it makes 14 psi
3.0Lv6 maybe 9 psi etc
or in the case of the m90 unit max starter motor speed vs displacement of air per 1 revolution of the blower lobes

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Hmm, it did look small and does appear to be for small motors now that I look at it. Perhaps you can wire in 2 of them? What electrical system would support that?

Apeiron

The only practical way is with a trunk full of batteries.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Motor speed controllers (PWM) have gotten pretty good recently, i don't see why you couldn't just use an ECM to control boost vs rpm vs load... and use the signal to feed the speed controller.

And yea, looks like some of the testing was done on a 2.0L engine

the M (was it a 90 or 62?) was powered by 3 starter motors.

Either way, you need one serious power supply to make anything of it, I doubt that it makes sense to retrofit to a regular car.

grasshoppertym

has anyone used this one advertised on this site?
http://www.performancechiptuning.com...PSI+Vortex/10/

just wondering if they work or not worth it
mike

Guest

....no price means you cant afford it....

Impaqt

iTrader: (1)

Their "Air Test" is showing the fan blow over a 1foot piece of 2x4..... oh.. and some rolls of tape......

Pretty sure I can do that with my lungs......

what do you think?

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

One of the things I remember Nissan and a few others was electrically assisted turbo chargers. Using a capacitor with a massive discharge rate to cause a turbo charger to spool so the engine can start making boost on its own. Obviously there aren't any cars that use this as its still a prototype technology. But there are several systems already built, they just don't provide that much oomph.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Electric forced induction will always be a joke no matter how it is marketed. You can't beat the laws of physics. 746 watts takes 1HP. An alternator is about 60% efficient. Put the two together and you find why superchargers and turbochargers have dominated the market.

Motor speed controllers have gotten a little better because MOSFETs and IGBTs have a little lower loss (power consumed). Controlling the electric forced induction via microcontroller is the easy part. Trying to beat physics and making real power for a decent amount of time is the hard part. Sure running 3x batteries and limiting boost to 30secs every hour will work if that is the design goal. Batteries will also have a much shorter life unless you go AGM which is really expensive.

I would rather see someone market a CRF450 driven trunk mount supercharger. That is a better power to weight ratio system. Imagine the power and fuel mileage you could get out of a nuclear vehicle power plant. Unlimited HP and MPG.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I'd love to see variable geometry turbochargers like porsche used at a reasonable price. Have it spool up like a tight A/R T3 but deliver flow on the top end like a T4. Have positive boost response from 2800 to 7000 rpm with no restrictions/no compromises

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

If it draws 350 amps at 14 volts then there is 14*350 = 4900 watts available to spin the compressor. That is roughly 4900/746 = 6.5 HP. Equate that to something like a 60gallon air compressor in a garage. Usually they have a 5hp motor at 240VAC which is 5*746 = 3700 watts. Have you ever timed how long it takes to fill that 60 gallon tank with 5 HP and 15 cfm?
Now do the numbers for the CFM an engine will consume. It turns out electric is great for tiny engines or real engines at idle.......but then who cares about making boost at idle.

Heck, if STS can market rear mounts as better than front mounts and sell kits then I am sure the electric charger can be marketed and sold also.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Wow, it gets even worse. They spec peak shaft power as 1800 watts so there is a huge loss somewhere or they are fudging other numbers. 1800 watts is about 2.5 HP. How much boost are you going to make with 2.5HP of power to spin the compressor? Hilarious.

The only thing it has going for it is that it actually looks like a real supercharger. I think that will fool a lot of people.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

I haven't looked at what Porsche used, but the diesel VGTs are out there used. Some people at TTF were using them. They seemed cheap and available on Ebay. I am surprised the megasquirt ECM does have a mod for them yet.