sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

on mine the cage is not attached to the thermistor at all. My only concern would be the drag on the sensor in the air stream, So I may add some epoxy to support it just in case

project89

iTrader: (1)

thats what i meant the cage helps support it in the airflow stream so it cant flop around and possibly break off and be ingested by the engine

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

Well I reattached the collector that was missing all 3 bolts, new plug wire, welded up some new exhaust hangers so it's rattle free, and welded up a few pin holes also. Started the car, still had an exhaust leak.... back 3 bolts on passenger header were loose, tightned them up, no more leak - the car sounds freaking great (quiet!). BTW copper RTV is some badass stuff, I use it for header to head gaskets (and all other gaskets) and it sealed right back up once I tightened the bolts back up, I thought it would have burned off.

I also moved the fuel line hanger so my torque arm doesn't hit it anymore, and replaced the crappy vinyl BOV and WG reference hose with thick wall fuel line.

All I can say is WOW what a difference it all made, the WG is not fluttering and boost sees pretty constant, the BOV now open in one big badass PSHHHH-WOOOOSH every time the throttle closes (even at idle when I rev it), and the it seems like the car is rattle free. I'm in a great mood with the positive progress that I can feel rather than see on the data log only, no I have the itch to turn up the boost some more this week!

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Awsome man. Turn up thee boost!!

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

Ok so I burned a new tune and my computer was on low battery, it didnt work right and ran like crap. reburned teh same new tune plugged into the wall and it's way better. Here is a plot of the data from the run, yeah only 4k rpm my tach is way off I though I was at 5600.



I changed the WGDC from 45 to 65 and boost is MUCH more steady, but it feels like my brakes are on at WOT, or the engien can't breath enough... I'm not sure if thats the solid bosot or something changed in the tune that I'm unware of... I'll try more RPM and boost

BTW thre was zero knock on the pull in the plot

project89

iTrader: (1)

is that 32* total timming i see under boost?
thats ummm brave

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Zero knock with 32* of timing, Im curious if you have offsets that make it so there really isnt that much timing being produced. I.E there is a intake temp Vs timing area in $59. I noticed on mine that it was set at -3.5* for the whole table. I changed that so that there was only a timing offset at 150+ temps insted of the whole table.

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

That's normal timing for these heads and boost... and it's true timing, verified multiple ways

project89

iTrader: (1)

that just seems so high to me , its a zz4 crate motor right

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

I ran close to 41* na with no issue, 32 is quite a step down

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

With electronic advance? That's almost retarded on the previous cylinder!

-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

113 heads take alot of timing. Low 40's for cruise and 38 at wot for one car i did.

How much boost are you at now? I have 28 deg so far at 6 psi and 12.5 air fuel no problems but i am bringing that air fuel down to 11.8-12.0 here soon. I may try 30 deg timing as well

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

42 or so degrees is about the max you can do before you risk striking the previous cylinder though..

-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Yeah most bins seem to have a cap at 41.8 or so but still those heads want all they can get at cruise and even wot takes more than you'd expect

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Right, but you can't with an electronic dizzy. When the rotor is in the dead center of two terminals, which one will the arc hit?

You'd have to put a whole lot of initial advance into it first, but then you risk having cranking problems, or hitting the next cylinder.



-- Joe

project89

iTrader: (1)

hmm that might be why im having such issues with my tt iroc at idle.

due to my est bypass configuration i have to run the timming very retarded or i have very bad cranking issues, once the motor hits 450 rpm it advances to 30* and i get this miss i just cant figure out

ill have to setup the coil on a relay and toggle so i can bump more initial in it and not have the starting issues im having

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Boost is a different story then a N/A engine.

But what ever the thing likes..give it to her. If she like that timing and you dont have KR and egt's out of wack then let her rip!

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Aftermarket ignition box with start retard function helps alot

project89

iTrader: (1)

actually i can prolly do that with my megasquirt im thinnking if i set the est bypass settings to 100 rpm i can just add a row in my ignition map around 300 rpm and retard the timing that way, once the motor fires and gets over 550 rpm i can bring the timming back were i need it for idle

that should allow me to set the initial more advanced and get rid of my missfire if that indeed is my issue, which i think it is caus eif i retard the timing at idle my miss goes away but idle quality deteriorates

RBob

iTrader: (1)

The min/max timing values in the BIN confuses a lot of folks. What it really is, is the limit that can be programmed into the distributor or DIS. On a distributor it prevents cross firing as Joe mentioned.

However, the initial (base) timing needs to be taken into account when looking at the at-crankshaft timing. The more initial timing there is the more at-crank timing can be had. With the stock TPI initial of 6* BTDC, and the 42* that can be programmed into the distributor, up to 48* of at-crank timing can be had.

RBob.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

For some reason i was thinking that was the limit the ecu would send to dizzy and the motor would end up only seeing that amount but what you say makes sense.

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

well I kinda have an update...

I got cut off (I was doing 25MPH) and had to crash up a steep driveway to a stripcenter to not wreck my car scraped some paint off my front lip, down to the plastic which REALLY pisses me off, but thats the only damage so it's not the end of the world. I'm debating a full color change on the car and new wheels but thats down the road, I need to get the tune right first.

On a positive note I have a list of things I'm going to check when I get a chance.

1. cold side boost leaks - I have a suspicious coolant leak by #1 at the head/intake interface.

2. true timing - I'm gonna put 5psi to the MAP sensor with compressed air and check with the timing light to see what it's really doing at 5psi and wot and make sure my "5psi" form the map is true, would rather do it on a dyno but I'm gonna give neutral a shot as it shouldn't really make a difference

3. fuel pressure check

4. check the valve train mechanicals

5. e-brake cables were moved when I did the new exhaust, I'm wondering if they are getting pulled by the suspension when I go WOT and the rear end moves...

if it's not that.... hell I don't know what I could be. Anything else I should check fellas?

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

Made some real progress today:

Checked cold side boost leaks - First I found a connector totally disconnected so I though that was my problem, but it didn't make much difference when fixed. I then put 15psi to the throttle body, and found some more leaks. My charcoal can was directly connected to manifold vacuum, which now sees boost so that was a big leak. Also had a small leak on a vacuum hose to the brake booster. Fixed both of those. The shaft the throttle blades are on leaks form both sides but barely, and thats just a leak you have to deal with I assume... Finally I could hear air making it's way SOMEWHERE in the motor but I don't know if that was through blown intake gaskets or into a cylinder with both valves partially open and flowing into the exhaust. So I pulled the valve cover to make sure nothing was broken, it wasn't. Then I said screw it and pulled the dizzy and intake. I don't see any leak areas except between 3 and 5 the gasket was off to the side of the small dividing area.





the dizzy has lots of corrosion in it so thats not good:







I'm going to pull the other valve cover to make sure everything is ok, then new 2106 intake gaskets, and button it back up. I'm convinced the intake gaskets were leaking since I am getting huge crank case pressure at only 5 psi considering compression in the two cylinders I checked was 135 and I'm making less power than NA with out blow by issues. I have no vacuum lines hooked to the crank case, only 5psi, decent compression...

EDIT: also the intake bolts were really loose, required very little TQ to break them free, maybe the gaskets weren't compressed very well

vwdave

How the hell did that thing run?

Good to hear you found all these....issues and resolved them.

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

I'll tell you how it ran, it ran like ****!!!

yeah me too, hopefully this resolves my pressurized crank case issue. If it doesn't the motor is coming out, I'm not doing head gaskets on this POS i'll just start over with a new motor since this ones not ideal for boost anyways

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

did you mean between 5 and 7? 3 and 5 arent next to each other...

if it is 5 and 7, i think you may have found your oil on the #7 plug culprit.

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

EDIT: Im a retard, yes I meant between 5 and 7. I assume the fast it could be letting oil into the cylinder could also mean it was letting boost into the crank case?

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

well the intake gaskets in my motor are felpro 1206's, and the stock HSR and Al L98 heads both call for 1205's, so maybe that had an effect on it. I'll be replacing them with 1205's.

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

well i feel pretty stupid right now, here is how my plugs were on the dizzy, 2&4 were switched and 5 and 7 were switched... I dont know how it even ran like that!

The_Punisher454

The most useful number I ever memorized early in life was the chevy (pontiac too) firing order. Countless times when I have heard something running wrong or not at all, one of the first things I check is the plug wiring.

Homer23

At least you found out what the problem was. After reading your whole thread I think I need to start planning a twin-turbo build for my Camaro (and making me look bad about being lazy about a lousy trans fluid change). I just bought a turbo build book for some much needed info off ebay.

project89

iTrader: (1)

lmao its a sbc it will run even if u leave parts out of it, usually a crossed plug wire is easy to hear when the motor is running.

but ive seen a sbc that ran with the timing 180* out , figure that one out

vwdave

Ive seen a TDI beetle run with the injection timing 180* out once. Still dont know how.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

i got a 5.0 mustang to run with the ignition 180 out and THEN the wrong firing order. lol

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

yeah I though it sounded funny, but going from not hearing it run in 1.5 years to hearing it through the turbo with a new tune that was really bad to start with, made it hard to tell it was a mechanical issue not the tune

once I got the tune close I knew something was wrong, so I started looking at stuff, I'm just glad the intake gaskets are bad too so it's not wasted effort.

I wont get a chnce to work on it until the 5th or 6th, I hope to have it back together by that sunday but we'll see...

I too have seen my share of crazy ignition wiring jobs run, bought a v6 mercury two stroke outboard that was running on 3 cylinders but I couldn't tell untill it was loaded. two wires from the switch boxes were backwards and one coil dropped out once it loaded up. Neutral it would rev to the moon and idle like nothing was wrong...

quadgoat

iTrader: (1)

Hey Alex, quick question for ya! Going back to the IAT sensors from page 7...Where do you have your sensor mounted? Right now mine is in the port in the bottom of the plenum on the HSR. I was thinking about moving it out to the charge piping to help avoid heat soak from the intake/plenum, but maybe that doesn't matter. I also think I have one of the metal fully enclosed IAT sensors right now and I am thinking I will get one of the open "caged" sensors you showed a picture of to help keep air temp readings more "instantaneous" if you will...Just curious on how your setup is done. Thanks!

-Paul

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

My IAT is in the bottom of the plenum, I think it would be a good idea to move it to right before the throttle body, even with the open one it get heat soaked bad. I plan to cut the metal cage off of mine and use an epoxy to reinforce it from the bottom, and move it to the charge pipe eventually. There is a plastic "caged" one out there thats the best but i found this local and bought it. I would DEFINITELY get an "open" IAT sensor - cost the same and are 100000x better when comparing response time

quadgoat

iTrader: (1)

Good deal, that confirms my thoughts on the matter! Just gotta figure out how to mount it in the charge piping and I'll be in good shape :-P

-Paul

calebzman

iTrader: (3)

I would leave it in the plenum as long as it's the sensor with the plastic cage.



You'll get the most accurate reading of the incoming air temp. Previously, I welded a bung in the charge pipe to relocate the sensor right before the TB. I didn't really notice a difference so when I switched to the First intake, the IAT sensor was left in the plenum.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

I have mine in the plenum, and while it does read hotter while cruising the temp drops almost immediately when I open the throttle, so that indicates that it is reading the air temp, not being heat soaked, as one might first conclude. I'm using the open element sensor as well. I would rather the ECM see actual air temp, not what looks good to me.

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

thats a very good point.

so i have the NKG-FR4 plugs now, I assume I should go a step colder with a 0.035" gap based on what the interwebs say, but which plug? I'd like to stay with an easy to get locally plug

Well this weekend will be telling, gonna throw the intake back on, make sure I don't have any bad plug wires, new plugs, put a new rotor/cap on, fix all the boost leaks, and see what It does. time permitting I may build a catch can setup or something, we'll see. I have all of this coming:

Homer23

Is a catch can supposed to catch oil?

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Yes. Its basically a accumulator. Seperating the oil and letting that stay in the tank. insted of either being blow out or dumped straight back into your intake via pvc valve system.

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

made some progress today

cleaned up the surfaces:


gaskets in place

I used copper just RTV instead of the rear valley gasket, and coated both sides of the front valley gasket with RTV


lower intake an dizzy back on.


I have the upper intake and valve cover on now too but no pics, just have to put in new plugs and hook up the hoses/wires

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Nice!

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

Hope you get the issues figured out. Really curious to finally see what this things gonna do! I managed to get mine running, tuned, and blown up before you got yours figured out lmao. Hope you have better luck, but my luck has never been known to be very great.

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

if this does not fix my crank case pressure issues i'm gonna have to say bad rings are to blame since EVERYTHING ELSE has been gone through. So I MAY have beaten you to blowing it up LMAO!

Tomorrow will be interesting and I have my fingers crossed, but I'm not holding my breath

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

It was pretty noticeable when I lost the ringlands on my pistons. I have an open breather on my oil cap and after the car started hesitating a bit, I popped the hood and my breather filter was oil coated, and you could literally see the compression "chugging" out of it in the form of steam. What are the symptoms yours is giving you? Are you getting compression out of the breathers? If so, I would almost 100% say it's a piston/ring related issue (but hope thats not the case!)

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

breathers pushing oil out when in boost, not too terribly much but it's not right... does not do it at idle only when I really get on it. I don't have blow by at idle, and not much free revving with no load/boost just a tiny amount. i had a dual PVC to manifold setup before so Im not sure if its new, from boost, or i have always had some blow by.My intake was COATED with oil inside when I took it apart I my just need a catch can, or I may have bigger issues.

and I had 4 plug wires wrong, huge plug gaps, and a bad cap/rotor SO that wasnt helping LOL

vwdave

Why did you use Copper RTV for the china walls?