fast82z

iTrader: (1)

Problems I had last season were slow spooling and not enough traction. I know from past setups that a wider set of tires could solve the traction, but I'm looking for more weight in the rear to do the same while keeping the smaller tires. Last time I had the car on the scales it was something like 1900lbs on the front and 1700lbs in the rear. By rear mounting the turbo stuff I'm thinking I should be able to get it to possibly have more weight on the rear than the front.

So far I have the main 3" exhaust pipe fitted for most of the length. In this first picture you can see the oval section of pipe laying on the floor that will be positioned under my driveshaft to move the intake air from the intercooler to the engine. Looks like I'll be able to keep everything higher than my trans. crossmember and keep ground clearance to a minimum of around 4-4.5"




What can be seen of the turbos at bumper height


Top view of how they are mounted


I'm also using twin TPI throttle bodies, and I'm quite happy with the intake adapter I spent much of today making for them




The intake tubes going to the throttle bodies will come through the fenders and combine into that one oval pipe seen in the first picture, and that should be the next thing I get to working on.

Primetime91

iTrader: (15)

I like

You going to wrap the exhaust all the way to the turbos, or anything like that?

fast82z

iTrader: (1)

I got my eye on some thick fiberglass stuff to wrap the exhaust to the turbos.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Excellent work, I'm loving the twin TPI throttle bodies....

noboostnogo

iTrader: (4)

very interesting intake setup, looks nice.
What size turbos are those? and what size tires were you running? from your avatar your car doesnt seem to have traction issues LOL

1986chevycamaro

love the intake im just wandering how are you going to run the throttle cable?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

subscribed...i'd be interested in seeing how you do the oil system. Seperate tank and pumps or actually run motor oil back to the turbos? (cant see the pics here at work, I will view later tonight)

This is something I want to do.

fast82z

iTrader: (1)

The turbos are ebay cheapy gt45's that have 68.9mm compressors that should be fine up to around 1600hp. I've seen a good few people use these with success, and a couple use them as twins to really go. My avatar is actually from the 2009 season when I was running 325/50/15's, and yes traction was not an issue then. Traction has been an issue this past season since vs. 2009 I moved the turbo down and forward, laying the radiator down flat moved more weight down, and this season as well as this coming one I want to hopefully stay on the stock wheels that can only take up to the 275/60/15 that I have now. All of those factors being bad for traction. If traction is still not there, I could widen the wheels and fit some 325's on again, but that's a last resort.

I plan to run the throttle cable to the passenger TB and a linkage of some sort will connect the throttle bodies together. I'm thinking I might make it so the driver side stays closed until like 1/4 throttle so the pedal isn't as touchy with normal driving.

For the oiling I plan to run a self contained system with a tank, cooler, and I'm thinking this pump that a couple people have liked: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Pump-Waste-Oil-WVO-Water-transfer-utility-12V-12-Volt-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem1c1856579fQQitemZ120667395999QQptZBoatQ5fPartsQ5fAccessoriesQ5fGear
Might also run an oil pressure switch in the line so the car won't run unless that oil pump is on and there is pressure feeding the turbos.

UR50SLO

iTrader: (1)

It'll be interesting to see when those spool up. This was setup in the front before correct? With a large single.

Your working with much less exhaust back there (as exhaust cools/condenses) and twice the exhaust housing area with two turbos.

When they come on they should work good. If they come on softer it'll help your tracktion issues.
Good luck!
~Scott

BlackTopKing

iTrader: (1)

me too...how the beep you gonna get that in sync. i keep picturing a cross (lft/rt) but dont even think that 'll work?!

never mind... i see what your doing- smart thinking with the 1/4 off adjustment. didnt even think of that.

UR50SLO

iTrader: (1)

So then your going to run twin liquid/air intercoolers and twin pipes all the way up to the dual throttlebodys? Just guessing.
More pipes and air to fill and keep moving.

Your going from a single 3" exhaust to two turbos then I'm guessing twin IC's and twin pipes then back down into a single intake plenum.

I guess I'm not understanding the theroy behind what your trying to accomplish with the configuration. I'm sorry if this is coming off as being critical.. Just explain what the theory is so I under stand.. Maby I'm missing somthing? Can't tell in Type on the internet the "Tone" but I'm just asking questions...

Intersting looking setup.. just need more info I think

~Scott

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I took it as you will have dual pipes to the turbos and just that one of the pipes is pretty much done and mounted? Still have to fab up the second exhaust side?

fast82z

iTrader: (1)

I probably shouldn't have called it the main 3" exhaust pipe since it will be the only pipe that feeds the turbos. At the collectors of the shortie headers will be 2 1/4" and 1 3/4" pipes. The 1 3/4" pipes will come together at the 60mm wastegate, and the 2 1/4" pipes will come together into that 3" pipe right by the passenger front tire. Once this 3" pipe gets past the axle it will split into dual 2 1/4" pipes to feed each turbo. On the intake side the turbos will go into one intercooler, just cause that's what I have and it seemed to work pretty good last season. A 3" pipe exits the intercooler and runs under the driveshaft until it splits to dual 2 1/4" pipe around the trans. mount area. These pipes will poke through the fenders and into the TB's. Somewhere in that mess will be the BOV, just not sure exactly where I want to put it yet.

UR50SLO

iTrader: (1)

Ok... Well I was on track for the thought process except for Intercooler.

Was the single turbo front mount turbo not working for you?????? What was it running

ET/MPH?

I have a feeling your going backwards with the current plan. Sorry to sound pesimistic just a bunch of transitions from single to split and back again.. all takes energy and creates heat/looses efficiency.
Just my thoughts.
~Scott

fast82z

iTrader: (1)

The front mount was close to spooling properly, but I had almost no traction. Granted there are other ways to fix those problems, but I'm not doing it only to fix those problems. My previous best, although nowhere near maxing out the 91mm, was 9.42@ 142 with a stupid loose converter or 10.0@ 147 with the tighter one all on 15psi. I'd be nice to get the proper e.t. for that 147 mph too.

thewizard

iTrader: (43)

Looking great man. Glad those TB got put to good use.

Damon

That's really impressive stuff. I'm looking forward to hearing how well it works.

Agreed, if you move the turbo to the rear (or in your case, two of them) it should help weight distribution quite a bit.

Enough that you can finally put the air conditioning back on the car. C'mon! You know that's why you did it!

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

what did you not want to do on your suspension? there is alot of guys flying with stock type suspension, 275/60 radials, and single turbo up front.

oh, and did you already sell the 91mm?

fast82z

iTrader: (1)

Only thing left to do on the suspension would be to use double adjustable rears. I already have front drag springs and 90/10's, spohn tq arm w/ tans crossmember mount set to -2.5 pinion angle, lakewood square tube LCA's, LCARB's, and single adjustable rear shocks. Don't remember what the shocks are set at, but I made a day of setting them once and left them at the best setting.

I haven't sold the 91mm, but it looks like $1200 would be fair for it.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

got the specs on the turbo? i may be interested....

i would think your suspension should be working alright? one thing i would suggest is going to a wolfe/bmr drag swaybar over the stock one.

fast82z

iTrader: (1)

The single is a PT91.5 G-trim. I have a 1.0 housing I put a divider into that didn't do anything for me and a 1.5 housing.

I was thinking of doing something with the sway bar, actually last winter too. I guess it's a if I get to it kinda thing.

gp90gta

iTrader: (1)

I love the way this looks, cant wait to see the end result. IMO I think a mechanical linkage between the two TB's would be safer. I once had a customer years back that came to my shop with a twin turbo LSC with two TB's, cable driven. When they were out of sync it would blow the throtle blades wide open. I built a mechanical linkage that solved the problem. You may not encounter this but if you do than you may know were to start.

fast82z

iTrader: (1)

Revised the turbo placement after long study of how in the world I was going to run the pipes. Now there will be short straight pieces right into the intercooler (the intercooler requiring some modification of course), and one 3" pipe that ties into the driver side one above the axle.

This placement shows them much more than before, which I'm not too excited about, but piping is much easier.






This is the beginnings of the y-pipe/wg:

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

looking good

lb9 GTA

Are you going to insulate the charge pipe too?

thewizard

iTrader: (43)

Out of curiosity, what is the copper pipe for?

fast82z

iTrader: (1)

I might insulate the charge pipe, but I'm thinking on average the air inside that pipe might be hotter than the air outside it or at least close to the same. This would make the insulation quite useless. I'll likely make that choice once I see what intake air temps are without the insulation to see if it'd really be needed.

I was asked about the copper pipe on yellow bullet too... It's my fuel line. It goes rubber from the tank to the rear seat area, copper to the front of the trans, rubber to the belt drive, and braided to the rails.

joker0907

any updates in this? very interesting build!

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

I wasn't aware copper was on the list of accepted NHRA materials for making fuel lines.

fast82z

iTrader: (1)

Been pretty busy with work and school along with being tired of burning so much firewood amongst other things. I have spring break mid March for a week that hopefully I can get some stuff done. I never knew anything about NHRA with fuel line stuff when I did it, and nobody has bothered me about it probably since not seeing it. I don't see any problem with using it, but I guess I can either continue to hope nobody sees/cares or replace it with something else.

Blownz28man

iTrader: (2)

Good job. Really don't know if copper will ever give you a hard time but better be safe then sorry.

fast82z

iTrader: (1)

Only have worked on the car probably a week or two worth of days since I last posted, but I did start the car up and drive it to work a few times...once where it had an oopsie with a trans line coming undone that left a good couple hundred foot long stain on the road. Don't have the turbos hooked up yet, but they are placed more like they originally were except both rotated 180 degrees. I'm not sure yet how I want to do the oil supply for the turbos, and the final piping with the intercooler will probably take a while as well as some reworking of the pipes welded onto the intercooler. Anyway, here's pictures of stuff that is basically done except for maybe some prettying up:





I'm thinking I'll probably end up hooking up one of the turbos initially just so I can at least run like 6psi cause without boost this 12 second car feel SLOW! This should also give me an idea of how one will spool up so I can compare that to the twins spooling together. I do really like how the throttle body setup has the car drive like stock until 20% throttle where the driver side throttle body begins to open up.

fast82z

iTrader: (1)

Just logged a couple trans brake spools with one turbo hooked up and it looks like the wastegate is probably opening at 4psi, but it gets to 4psi and 3650rpm in 2.5 seconds with a 9.5:1 afr and 33 degrees of timing with a couple small pre-turbo exhaust leaks that I'll fix. Next time I get to tinker with it I'll get the afr more like upper 12's and maybe a couple more degrees of timing and it should really light it up quick. For comparison, my previous front mount pt91 1.0 a/r couldn't spool this fast with a proper tune much less being so rich and not fully advanced.

fast82z

iTrader: (1)

I've been trying out stuff and found out a couple things. The wastegate is getting pushed open prematurely. The spring labeled for 5.4psi holds about 4psi withOUT a manifold reference while running a single or both turbos. Swapping in the 9.77psi spring and adding closing pressure to the gate from the manifold with a single turbo brings 10psi and seems that's all it can do. That same setup running both turbos never reaches full spool even at the end of a pass... 1'st gear no boost, 2nd 4psi, 3rd 7psi. Still not using the a/w intercooler, no water in it anyway, but the single turbo runs better since it spools faster and gets more boost to get me 129mph and 11.4's with still slow spooling and 1.9x 60' times. These turbos seem to be pretty good for the price in a single setup, but the exhaust side is just way too big for any twin setup. I bet if these were made with a smaller turbine wheel and a .68 or so a/r like I've seen on many other t4 turbos, they would work much better. I'm going to see if I can test a spooling technique with what I have, but will likely end up putting the 91mm back on in some shape or form.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

What hotside is on it? do they accept other housings from master power? MP has a GT45 turbo of similar specs, those housings may swap on.

fast82z

iTrader: (1)

The turbine wheels on mine spec. with an inducer/exducer of 87.4mm/77mm, which is about what the mp45 racing turbos spec. They only offer 1.05 and larger a/r's for that turbine though. From some experimentation I've done with blocking off some of the turbine outlet, I can say the turbine even as a single turbo isn't restrictive at least while trying to spool around 3000rpm. They do make a t-70 that has a 74mm/64.5mm turbine with a/r's ranging from .5 to 1.0 which would probably be the ticket.

project89

iTrader: (1)

block off the back sides of the turbine inlets and they should spool up much faster just make a plate that bolts to the flanges out of say 1/8th inch steel that blocks all ex flow threw the turbine housing on the vband side, this effectively makes the turbine housin size cut in half.
so instead of 2 1.05 housings it would be like running 2 .58's

project89

iTrader: (1)

if this works wll for u u can always buy 2 quick spool valves which basically does the same thin except at a preset boostlevel the butteryfly valve openes the blocked side back up to increase ex flow

fast82z

iTrader: (1)

I'd like to think that would work, but I've tried restricting different things in different places and never have gotten anything out of it. I might try it though since it would be so easy to do. I already have one block plate made so...

project89

iTrader: (1)

it deffinatly works,just have to do both or one turbo will spin slower then the other

its basically work on the same concept the vgt systems work on by varying the turbine housing size, when u block that rear port u force all the ex threw half of the turbine housing

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Thats what I have now, .68 a/r's but front mounted. They spool up fairly quick just not as quick as the T60's I had before, with no other changes.

That will all change tho, my motor is going to have some updates and the T70's will be a much better match to say the least


You still have ALOT of turbine for that motor combination. The P-trim stuff can handle 500-600hp each easily, those turbines you have should be good to 700-800. Thats alot for a twin setup

Slush92RS

iTrader: (6)

PLEASE........take off the "items" hanging from the rear of the car!!!!! No, im not talking about the turbos!

Pretty sweet build here. I took the easy route and slapped a D1SC on my 383 making 10lbs. of boost.

fast82z

iTrader: (1)

I have heard of people shooting stuff into the exhaust to help spool the turbos, and I'm gonna give that a shot too. A fuel solenoid from a nitrous setup so when trying to spool up I can dump fuel into the exhaust. I don't really need it to burn, although fine if it does, but the expansion of vaporization is tremendous as well as creating more mass flow through the turbine.

Procharger is definitely the easy route, and the best I got out of the D-1SC I had was 15psi to run 9.55@14x. In selling that, it paid for turbo stuff for a much higher ceiling of hp.

fast82z

iTrader: (1)

Project89: Sounds like you've used a quick spool valve effectively, so did you ever try blocking off one side or the other to see if one is any better? I tried this on my 91mm and it restricted the exhaust to the point where the motor couldn't even breath enough to get to normal n/a stall of the converter to begin to spool it anyway.

project89

iTrader: (1)

i have4nt personally tried this, but i know ppl who have done this, it works very well.
u only want to block off the rear port, blockin off the front port and leavin the rear open wont help nearly as much.

the truth is as twins with those turbine housings u would need a 500+ ci motor to make them spool properly or nitrous .

the blockoff plate is just a test as im sure u may suffer high back presure at high rpms with the rear ports completly blocked off.but it is a much cheaper way to test to see if the quick spool valves will help in ur situation since the quick spool valves are like 200 bucks each.

but hey if the blockoff plates make the turbos respond the way u need them to then the quick spool valves will be worth the money in the end. if not alls u have to loose is ur time making the blockoff plates,instead of puchasing 2 of the quick spool valves for lots more money.


hell if it works im sure u could fab ur own quick spool valves for a fraction of the cost if u have access to a milling machine

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

You talking about blocking off the T4 flange side or the exhaust exit?

fast82z

iTrader: (1)

The turbine housing needs to be a twin scroll for the quick spool valve stuff to work, which these are. The idea is to block one of the entrance holes at the T4 flange of the turbine housing so that you're only supplying exhaust to the one side of the housing to approximate halving your a/r.

fast82z

iTrader: (1)

Since spooling seemed an impossibility with rear mounting these, going to front mount to see if they spool up there. Most of the work is done as I am going without a wastegate, BOV, and intercooler for the moment until it's a sure thing that they spool up good.

UR50SLO

iTrader: (1)

The heat should be there to spool the turbo's now... Hope you add the other parts before really getting on it Lol
Good luck,
Scott~

fast82z

iTrader: (1)

Looks like it is a go! After 2.5 seconds on the TB it had 4.6psi and 3650rpm. After launch .34 sec, 7psi. Numbers after that were not real world since it was basically doing a burnout, but .68 sec after launch boost made it to 18.8psi. The block plates were in also, so it was only using half the exhaust housing and half the T4 port. Suppose I'll see what it does with the block plates out sometime, but I suspect it won't spool anywhere close to this without them and I'll likely be making some valves to use all the turbine once into boost. Definitely a far cry from the response with them rear mounted though.