all4u

Another fight with my cousin has caused me to ask the experts on here for their opinion.

My cousin has a NOS 05151 kit he bought from summit. He says that his 88 camaro 305 tpi, stock internals, with a few bolt ons (not sure which ones besides headers and exhaust) can take a 50 shot, but here is the thing, he plans on leaving his hypertech thermomaster chip plugged into the computer!

I am saying this is a bad idea because on the NOS site, it says don't use with chips that advance timing. Hypertech does that, and he says that it is such a small shot that nothing bad is going to happen.

If the motor blows, it'll be me helping him pull it and I don't want that, so is he going to blow it or am I dumb? Assume he uses 93 octane from shell gas station and his camaro only has 45,000-ish miles original and is spot on as far as tune up and maintenance.

patricksmithahh

how much does the chip advance the timing...

you only need a degree of timing retarded per 50 shot..

i think if the nitrous kit is installed right ad has the ratio spot on then it will be alright

all4u

I'm not sure how much it advances timing but I think it only advances a WOT so I'm not sure how much or how little but it can't be that much of a change, could it?

Where is xpendbl3 when you need him? LOL

patricksmithahh

just have him take it outand put stock back in....off the shelf chips can hurt hp

all4u

I wonder if he still has it? I have a stock 350 chip if that'll work.

3rd gen Will

iTrader: (8)

Yea I would definitely pull the chip. Advanced timing is not a good thing when it comes to nitrous. the general rule for timing is about 1 degree for each 25 hp increase. So in you should really be retarding 2 degrees base timing, Say the chip adds 4 degrees timing up top, then essentailly your are advanced 6* from where it should be. Running the chip is asking for serious trouble for maybe a 5 hp gain.

Also if he decides to run a higher hit at the 100 hp level you should go 1 step colder and for each 50 after that another step colder so at 150 2 steps, 200 3 step etc. I ran a 150 shot with just one step colder and had no problems though. 175 burned the electrode/ground strap off the spark plug though.

all4u

I need to see what we can do because he doesn't have his stock chip anymore and I'm not sure if my 350 chip will work. Anyone know how small of a shot he could get away with using that dumb chip?

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

that small of a hit.. should be a dry shot.. No fuel.. just NOS.(50HP)

only Use it at WOT..(best for that shot)

you would feel any ping probs.. give it a shot..

all4u

I would like to do it, but not my car, and not my engine, or my money if it blows up. I think that we will give the 50 shot a try and then go from there. I tried my chip and the car idles rough and bogs at WOT. I don't know what's up but the chip does fine in my car, stock chip in a 355 tpi with a mild emissions legal cam, but can't run a 305! I'm thinking he will have no choice but to jack up fuel pressure, and run the nitrous on his Hyperjunk chip.

Anyone else care to comment? By the way, thanks arcticwhite.

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

your chip is not for the 305.. lol
thats why they make a diff for the 350.

leav the fuel press as it is.. it's 50hp hit.. not much more then a Fart.
your passing gear will feel like it pulles more..
im just saying.. your stock fuel pressuer
stock chip
will be just fine.. that what NOS made the smaller NOS kits for.
..stock engs with stock parts are good to 75hp hit..

but hey.. be safe and have fun. thats what it's all about..
in one of my sbc i have used a 300HP hit.. no not a stock eng or parts..
talk about a hit..thats about all you can stuff into a sbc..
the new procharged 427 will also have the foger ontop of that..
it will just be a small 100 hp hit..not much more then a Fart...
it's all about Fun..and the chicks dig it!

motorman350carb

? i just put a 125 shot on my camaro i have the timing set at 10 degrease advance i have an hei vacuum advance distributor stock internals on bottom end L98 350 carbed any tips on how i should set every thing before i try the spray out ?

all4u

I think that is funny, 50 shot not more than a fart! I'll see what happens with a 50 on his car and leave it at that. I think he is looking to drop 3 tenths, but I don't think the 50 shot will do it. I hope I don't have to spend a week replacing the engine!

More help is welcome if anyone could shed some light.

one92rs

iTrader: (5)

you can run nitrous with advanced timing. although a keen eye needs to kept on things. when i did mine i was doing it with computer control with obd2 so i was able to take advantage of the knock sensors and a good timing map. it can be done on a carbed engine. but it is a lot harder. as there isnt anything to pull timing when knock comes in. that is why they want the timing pulled or retarded. a 50 shot imho wont give three tenths. but every engine is different.

89ROC-Z

iTrader: (7)

only real way to tell is pull the plugs

3rd gen Will

iTrader: (8)

I dont see why a 50 hp hit wouldn't pick up 3 tenths.

I picked up 1.6 seconds with a 150 shot, went from 13.6 @ 101 to 12.0 @ 115

You could always pull a little extra base timing to be safe say pull 4*. I wasn't event thinking about the knock sensor either, I don't think you'd blow it up with a small 50 shot, but definitely pay close attention for any detonation so you can get off the throttle quickly.

one92rs

iTrader: (5)

i was running a 175 shot and 32* timing. it took an awful lot of dyno tuning to get the fueling right.

Cosmik Debris

A well tuned 50 shot took my 305 from high 14s to very low 14s. I have 14 initial out to 36 timing but I usually use a bit higher octane fuel for insurence.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

If he wants me to look over the kit let me know, but I'd pull out that crap chip and get a stock one in there along with retarding the timing at the distributor by a few degrees and let it rip. No reason you can't use the 50-100 pills on it. I'd also have a full exhaust and recent tuneup on the motor with quality plugs and good wires before doing this. Nitrous requires a lot of little things to be done to make sure you can use it safely.

all4u

What about my LS1? You have a PM buddy, when you get a chance.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

pm returned

all4u

PM'd back, tag! You're it!

2002chad

that's funny.

NJP93

I don't mean to steal your thread here, but I have a question about my 350. From what I understand, the NOS 05151 kit is a direct bolt-in, and if I retard my timing 3-4 degrees I could run a 100-shot of nitrous on the stock 350 safely?

all4u

No problem, you didn't steal the thread, I ran a 100 shot on stock timing and 93 octane fuel. Taking out timing sucks because it hampers performance when you are not on the squeeze. I wouldn't bump up the timing though, it would be a bad idea. My cousin's car is surviving but for how long, no one knows, that hypertech chip bumps the timing up a bit though.

patricksmithahh

yep all you need is 2-3 degrees retard if you could get a timing box you could set it to retard only when you kick the nitrous on....but thats just extra...another good investment when squeezin is a wideband gauge you dont wanna lean out and melt a cylinder make sure you have a good air to fuel and spray away..



i have my timing pulled 2 deg and i was on a hundred shot stock internal 90 vette and i have been through 6 or 7 bottle fills and the car is still running great at 130k miles now i am on a 150 hit and just make sure my afr is between 11 and 12 to 1

patricksmithahh

yeah i forgot to mention you can run a higher octane fuel for added insurance



i really wish we had 93 here in town

on a side note can you mix 91 and 100 at a certain ratio to get 93 ish???
we only have 91 as premium but some stations have 100

NJP93

Well sweet, thanks for the help guys! Hopefully I'll be able to pick up a NOS kit and install that in the next month or two! Anything else I need to know?

freaky

i'd jus run the 100 straight ...

cronsformula350

you would only need to pull 1* out for a 50 shot, every 100 you run, you are supposed to pull at least 2* out to be "safe" Have him just turn the stock base timing down, when its warmed up, pull 2* out of it, and he'll be fine. That thermo master chips garbage. You can thow 37* of timing at a 305 or 350 on the stock chip. With just bolting on headers on my stock TPI 350 with a stock heads short block. I was able to pull out 100hp my first day at the track, only from fuel pressure, timing changes, removing smog pump belts, TPS at stock .45 volts, but I ran 47.5psi through the bosch injectors from 987. I spent less than $2500 and had a 13.8second at 99 camaro, I paid $950 for, it looked great, at www.cardomain.com/ride/471099/8