lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

ok finally got my car up and running and first of damn it is fast on 5 lbs. like it was on the 200 shot. cant wait to get to 10lbs. so those in the works get to it, you will like what you get out of it. anyway now it runs hot. I have a 3 core in it and just ordered a huge summit alu radiator but not sure if that will be the cure all so trying other things while waiting for it. I have not changed anything in the front but added the intercooler which now blocks the all important air dam on the car. I have both fans running all the time and seems that when i drive it gets to 200 or so then if i nail it and go into boost it goes up to 220 or so and never recovers and keeps climbing from there. For those who have never seen my setup my turbo is right next to the rad tank on the pass side and down pipe follows the tank down. it is all wrapped with fiberglass heat wrap so dont know if I should do a shield too or it is the intercooler placement blocking too much air. I tried to place it where turbotpi has his from what I could see from the pics in hitech mag. I need some help from guys who have done this or had a problem and fixed it. wanna cruise tonight if possible and not geting my big rad until monday. Going to pull the covers out of the bumper by the turn signals and open those holes and see if that helps( 1992 formula) to start and go from there. prior to this I could run my a/c in the middle of a hot FL summer and not get over 200 idleing all day in traffic, hit the interstate and go back to 160 in a heart beat so know the cooling system has no problems with it.

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

come on no one has a clue? 30 views and not one opinion? I cut the tanks off the factory radiator and it wasnt that bad and it is a big 3 core so not sure it the big summit one is the big cure. Need some advice on those running turbo setups

RevItUpZ28

iTrader: (1)

What kind of fans are you running? I recommend the SPAL dual 11" fans. The motors are ALOT more powerful than those stock fans.

Also, they make turbo bags (try paceperformance.com) for different size turbos that keep heat from hurting stuff around the turbo. You said you wrapped some heat wrap, but wasn't sure if the hot side was covered on the turbo itself or what.

I have the direct fit aluminum radiator from Summit. Had to do some coaxing on the drivers side to get it to slide in all the way. Together with the fans and lower t-stat, overheating isn't a concern anymore.

I've yet to order my turbo, so I can't offer any help as to whether it may be the intercooler blocking air or whether the fans just can't pull the air needed to cool it. If its happening when you're moving, I would think its more the intercooler's fault or possibly the heat soak from the turbo. Either way, the new radiator can't hurt things.

I attached a picture of my setup, but it goes with a little warning. The Be Cool SPAL fans used a lot of additional parts to get them installed as shown. That's the one thing that sucks about that company--they nickel and dime the heck out of you for everything. The fan setup comes with some crappy brackets that suck, and the instructions that come with them show the brackets (that I have), and say, "If you want to install the fans as shown, please purchase part #'s yadda yadda yadda. There are actually 2 different sets of brackets that you need to install them that way--and they aren't cheap. (One set was like $85 and the others were $50) I didn't find this out until I had already ordered the fans and had to get them in the car ASAP. You could probably have some fabbed up pretty easily to save money. I also remember seeing some "Summit-brand" one's that seemed close and were a heck of a lot cheaper.

I also had to purchase seperately the little black rubber bumpers that keep the fans from pushing up against the radiator.

Here are the part #'s that I have for my setup (Note, these are summits part #'s for these products at the time I ordered them last year, and may have changed):


Summit direct-fit radiator PN#SUM-380455
Be-cool brackets PN#BCI-72031
Be-Cool brackets PN#BCI-72037
Be-Cool SPAL fans PN#BCI-75007
Be-Cool rubber spacers PN#BCI-72104
Be-Cool fan wire harness PN#BCI-75117 (Got this free at the time with a special promotion from Summit Racing)
Moroso Radiator shroud PN#MOR-78736 --I needed the radiator shroud because the summit radiator is about 3 times wider than the stock one and the stock radiator shroud will not work. The Moroso brand one is for a 70's model Chevelle, but worked great.

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

well i run the stock fans and have wrapped the whole hot side of the set up. if i could get it around it , it got wrapped. the car never ran hot or close to it prior and wont until i hit boost then it just cant recover from it, drive around no boost stays around 180 or so. hit boost a few times and shoots to 220 and then keeps going until it boils over. funny thing is when the gauge is at 230 and it pops the cap i take the heat gun and go around the engine and radiator and see 200 or less all over. i changed the cap to a new 16 lbs one thinking it was that but no luck. i cut off the tank on this old one and saw some clogging but not a ton so just hope the summit one helps. i looked at the one you got and it was 256. found the same exact one but under universal ones for 185. it is one inch taller and .5 longer with the same size in and out. the one i have in it want a f body one and was 31x19 which is what he new summit one will be so i guess i will see tomorrow.

RevItUpZ28

iTrader: (1)

Scroll up, I edited that first post of mine to inculde more info for you. Hope it helps and keep us updated when you get the new radiator.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

I told you a few months back, and I'll tell you again....

^ Take the header wrap off....

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

where there is no wrap it goes up to 650 degrees. So you are saying that the heat is better melting everything under the hood? Just looking for a explanation of why you think to pull it off. It is about 250 where it is wrapped up so cuts the under hood heat by more than half. Put it to you like this it was boiling my brake fluid so I wrapped that pipe and now it is fine. Why do you think the wrap is a problem? My friend has a mustand and he had to do the same thing. it was cooking everything under the hood.(I copied his set up for placement and pipe routing ) so just started where he ended up with his which was wrap everything you could top keep the heat in the pipe and out the exhaust. I read from callaway that wrapping the pipes and turbos on the sledgehammer tt vette from the 90s that made over 1400rwhp picked up power and boost by speeding up the gas which was from keeping the heat inside the pipe and not letting it out and why they coat inside and out on all exhaust systems for performance. So why no wrap???

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

.... a hotter turbo is a more efficient turbo, yes, and even moreso with the addition of header wrap. However, the engine oil used to lubricate the turbo will now be running excessively hot, and is bringing all of that heat back into the oil pan. Have you checked the engine oil to see how it even looks yet? I would invest in an oil cooler if you really want to keep the wrap.

Sledgehammer ran oil cooler(s)....

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

yeah still very clean with about 75 miles and 2 blowovers on it. I run shell 10w30 synthetic and have a oil cooler from a impala ss on it which is pretty big. My turbo is also a ceramic bb set up so I would think wouldnt make as much heat as a bushed one. I have to keep the wrap on alot of it as it can melt a wire loom 6 inches away with no wrap in place. I am at 12.2 afr wot at 5 lbs is it too lean and making too much heat? I know you have yours for a while so what afr do you see?

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

some new pics of it

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

a few more if you see something wrong like intercooler placement let me know

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Didn't know you were already running one, that's a very nice oil cooler by the way. Yes, richen up your AFR if your running too lean (your not though), as you'll run hotter with too lean of a condition. By the way, is your timing locked? Also, are you running a thermostat....?

project89

iTrader: (1)

ur intercooler is to low.

i would either rivet on a piece of aluminum onto the the air dam to help draw more air up

or pick the intercooler up 2-3 inches

personally i would pick the intercoooler way up and install 2 10 inch fans on the face of it blowing air threw it if ur intercooler is big enough for that that is

the 10 inch fans can be bought on ebay for like 15$'s each

are u running a thermostat? if ur not once the water reaches a certian temp the cooling system will never be able to recover because the water just moves threw the radiator to fast
when i ran no stat on my car it would cool fine below 200* once i got over 200* the temps would just run away until i installed a restrictor to slow down the water flow threw the radiator
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and u need to richen that motor up a tad more u should be shooting for 11.5-.12.0 afrs tops

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Your not lean here, your rich, and I'm starting to believe it's a timing issue now. Try bumping it up approximately 3-4 degrees....

project89

iTrader: (1)

12.2 under full boost is a lil lean.
sure itll make power but its on the dangerous side

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Full boost lol? At 5-psi? With a T-76? Nahh....

His overheating is timing related, just waiting to see where his timing is set....

project89

iTrader: (1)

it looks liek 5 psi is all hes running right now

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

wanna see a timing table?

project89

iTrader: (1)

yeah post it up

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

crap how do I copy the chart from tunerpro rt

project89

iTrader: (1)

screen shot it then post it as an image

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Yes, post it up. I'll be back in a few....

Dave, I'm taking a ride with Shawn over by Atco to look at a blown C4 Corvette for him in like 5 minutes, I'll send (PM) some pics for ya when I get back....

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

I am trying to right click the normally goes to save info but nothing is working. So how do I get a screen shot?
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feel like a idiot. I cant figure it out

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

37 53 67 83 99 115 131 146 162 178 194 210 225 241 257 273 288
22.50 27.42 36.21 37.27 35.51 33.75 31.64 29.88 27.77 25.66 22.85 20.74 18.63 15.82 12.30 11.25 10.90
22.50 27.42 36.21 37.27 35.16 33.40 31.29 29.53 27.42 25.31 22.50 20.39 18.28 15.47 11.95 10.90 10.90
22.15 27.42 36.21 36.91 35.16 33.40 31.29 29.18 27.42 25.31 22.50 20.39 18.28 15.47 11.25 10.20 10.20
21.80 26.72 35.86 37.27 34.10 32.34 30.59 28.48 26.37 24.26 21.45 20.04 17.58 14.41 11.25 10.20 9.84
20.04 31.64 36.21 38.32 34.10 32.34 30.23 28.48 26.37 24.26 21.45 20.04 17.23 14.41 10.90 10.20 9.84
19.69 35.16 36.21 38.67 34.10 32.34 30.23 28.48 26.37 24.26 21.45 20.39 17.23 14.41 10.55 9.49 9.14
19.34 34.10 35.51 37.97 34.80 32.70 30.94 28.83 26.72 24.96 22.15 20.74 17.93 14.77 10.20 9.14 9.14
18.98 34.45 35.16 36.21 34.10 31.99 30.23 28.13 26.02 24.26 21.45 20.04 17.23 14.06 10.20 9.14 9.14
23.91 33.05 33.75 35.16 31.99 29.88 28.13 26.02 23.91 22.15 20.04 17.93 15.12 11.95 10.20 9.14 9.14
20.74 27.77 28.83 30.59 27.77 26.02 23.91 22.15 20.04 18.28 16.52 14.41 11.25 8.44 4.92 4.92 4.92
17.58 23.91 23.55 26.37 24.26 22.50 20.39 18.63 16.88 16.52 15.82 14.06 11.25 8.09 4.92 4.92 4.92
15.12 18.28 22.50 24.61 23.20 21.09 19.69 17.93 16.17 15.82 15.47 13.71 10.90 7.73 3.16 3.16 3.16
14.06 14.77 21.45 22.15 19.34 17.23 16.17 14.06 12.30 12.30 11.95 10.20 7.03 4.22 3.16 3.16 3.16
14.06 14.06 16.88 19.69 18.63 16.17 15.12 13.36 11.25 11.25 10.90 9.14 6.33 3.16 3.16 3.16 3.16
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that looks like crap. anyway if you can make anything out of it it is at 4800 max and starts at 600,800,1200,1400,1600,2000,2400,2800,3200,3400,3800,4200,4400,4800. I cant get the whole table to cut and paste. kpa is across the top but none of it lined up.

project89

iTrader: (1)

open up the table in tunerpro
then press the print screen key its to the right of the f12 key

once u press the prnt screen key

goto the start menua > accessories and open paint
once paint is open press ctrl + v and it will copy the screen shot into paint
then just save the file and upload it

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

see if this works

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

just open with note pad and scroll down to spark advance vrs rpm vrs 3 bar map to get the table. sorry i cant get the actual picture to come up.

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

ok here you go. keep in mind this is all the way up to 30 lbs
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crap nothing hang on

project89

iTrader: (1)

u running meth? and why does the table stop at 4,800 rpms ?what does the timming do above 4,800?
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holy **** man u have 31* of timing at 5 psi

and u cary 30* all the way out to 30 psi if im reading this table right

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

got it had to be a jpg

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

no meth. i got this file off a guy with a 91z28 with a procharger on it making 18lbs. No idea about tuning for boost so figured his was a good place to start. I guess not. I never heard detonation but know that doesnt mean anything. Not sure about 4800 as it is code $59 which was designed for syclones and typhoones first then v 8 guys started using it. I have 9.5 to 1 on this engine so what you think for timing. I have afr eliminator heads which are not suspost to need a lot of timing. the car felt very strong .

project89

iTrader: (1)

well im not to familiar with the stock code stuff so im unsure of exactly what timing ur seeing but u deff do have 31* dialed in.now as far as what ur actually getting i do not know

lemme see if i can post a picture of my timing curve up

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

looked at my log and saw as much as 34* at wot.

project89

iTrader: (1)

thats way to much, be very very happy ur only at 5 psi

i cant get my timming map now but on my v6 i will not run more then 16* over 7 psi i reinstalled windows on my laptop and lost all my files id have to goto the shop and pull them from my ecm

all the gran national guys i know can only run upto 21* and thats whith spraying a **** ton of methanol

cant tell u what ur motor will like for timming on pump gas but u deff need to back it down specially before u turn the boost up

i would bring timing back 10* under boost and see what it does

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

ok, I need another turbo v-8 guy to talk to so I can see what then are doing for timing.

project89

iTrader: (1)

yeah deffinatly, but that excessive ign timing could be part of ur overheating problem.
im really surprised u didnt get any knock with that map even only at 5 psi

a year ago or more when me and street lethal did my standalone install we goofed up somewere iand i ended up running 40-42* under full boost which at the time was 7-9 psi.

we didnt know it at that point yet when we took the car to the track i attempted 3 runs and every pass it sounded liek somone dumped a 5 pound coffe can worth of marbles down my intake

it was so loud i could hear it over my open downpipe and hear it inside the car with my helmet on

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

wow. yeah I mean the car is loud but not too bad. I am going to go pull a plug and look. be right back.

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

well it looks fine. I also run a ngk retracted tip race plug that is a ice cube for temp. It is a #7. heat range and nos guys normally run the tr55 so mine is alot colder. may ward of detonation more being a retracted tip too.

project89

iTrader: (1)

try this burn a new chip with the follwing ign table mods

from 3600 rpm and up @ 115kpa pull back 8*
at 3200 rpm and 131 kpa pull back 11*
and from 3600 and up @ 131 kpa pull back 10*
see if it helps from keeping the temps from going sky high

that will bring ur ign back to around 20-23* under boost

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

found this table from a guy with a cyclone with 40 lbs injectors and a bunch of mods running 18 lbs of boost

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

you running $59 with a 730 or 749 ecm?

project89

iTrader: (1)

thats a much much nicer boost table

the lower timing in the vacum section of the maps will also help spool up the turbo faster
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niether i said screw it and went right to a standalone system for my car

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

think I should try that table instead as it sits and just get my idle timing better? I am trying to get a hold of turbotpi as he runs a 749 setup and car runs good so table should work for me but I do not know him and have email him before with no response.

project89

iTrader: (1)

deffinatly try out that table just copy over ur idle and off idle ign settingings

that map u posted from the cyclone is 100x's better then what u are using

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

check this one out I found. It is a 422 inch truck with a t-76

mattsv8_03

iTrader: (2)

what water to antifreeze ratio are you running. if you are at 50.50 try adding water untill at 70 30. then add in a can of problend 40 bleow.

project89

iTrader: (1)

that 422 ci one looks really nice in nonboost ranges
look sgood up in the boost ranges as well but 22* under boost is alot,atleast from what i am used to

i look at it this way u didnt blow it up with 31* lol well u aint gonna blow it up with 22* either

if u could take the non boost sections of the 422 map and put them into the cyclone map i think u would have a very good starting point


the opnly thing i seein the cyclone map i would change other then then non boost tables is this

from 2400-3200 @ 162kpa* theres is a nice dip in the timing table, i would make that section of the map flatter just bring up those really low advance figures a bit so it dosent look like a big v if u were looking at a graph

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

The table that your running now honestly seems fine to me, however it could still very well be the source of your overheating problems. That, and it also sounds like your lifting a head. Check the coolant for bubbles, as your head gasket(s) might not be sealing properly....

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

low antifreeze with water wetter for coolant. I have used the mls cosmetic gaskets that are .048 I think with arp head bolts pulled to 85 ftlbs. New afr eliminator heads and block was decked straight. I am getting the new radiator today so see how that goes and am going to rip the center out of the thermostat and use it just as a restrictor as that has worked for me in the past. it is a 160 in it now but it old and might be sticking. The old 3 core i had in it was partialy clogged with crap so may have affected it some. I am going to raise the intercooler some too to let more air get to the rad from under the car.

???

iTrader: (5)

I agree with the head lifting, if you put a pressure gauge on it, I bet your passing some under boost. as for the timing table, its for a completly different car that's a full point lower in comp. the maps on 59 are starting points, which are places you start tuning from. my .02 is to stop asking for timing maps from other people and tune to what your motor likes. pull some timing out of the thing already and see what it does....