Hey all, i have an 89 firebird formula 350 with a p600b procharger running 10#s of boost, HSR, ported stock heads, stock cam, moates ostrich, Lt headers, and slp loudmouth exhaust and i want more power. I cant afford a D1 procharger so the p600b will be there for a while. I was thinking about running maybe a 75 shot. I had N20 on it before the supercharger so im not really new to it. Do you think the stock rods can handle it? I'm guessing it has 400-450 hp now. Also im using the FMU that came with the supercharger so i'll really need to have it dyno tuned to get the fuel jet right since it raises fuel pressure as boost rises. I cant lie, i also want it for pure intimidation. I want to pull up next to a viper or something with the supercharger whistling and then purge the nitrous also. Let me know what you think.

 

it should run fine as long as you cover all the bases. if its a stock bottom end i would be hesiten do you run an intercooler? the heat factor plus the massive cylinder pressure from the 10# plus the instant hit of the N20 on a stock bottom end would be scary.
WIth that said as long as you know you have the fuel under boost and run it safe with the N20 you should be fine. just make sure you tune well before you hammer on it, other then that be ready cause it will pull like a motha

 

Its intercooled so heat shouldnt be a problem. I also have both fans setup to run with the engine running so it runs pretty cool.

 

Nitrous with forced induction substantially cools the intake charge. Some guys run a 50 shot just for this purpose. Turns it into a 100hp gain.

If I were you I would get rid of that stock cam, that alone should give you 50hp. Do you have a cold air intake? Its worth good power with forced induction.

A good tune is also pretty important, good for power and helps your engine stay together longer.

Also what ignition do you run? At 10psi you should have a good one, especially with nitrous.

 

Stock ignition except for an msd coil. I have a 4" intake setup also. I was looking at this cam. http://store.summitracing.com/partde...1&autoview=sku
I was just thinking i could do the nitrous cheaper than a cam swap and i wouldnt lose any gas mileage until i hit it.

 

I think that would be a very good cam. Probably wouldnt lose much mileage.
It would cost about the same if you did it yourself I think.

You could go with a summit (cheap) cam too. With forced induction you dont need a great cam to make good power.

 

What would be a good hp level with a wet direct port system on a fully forged motor and a endless supply of VP Q16?

 

Youre gonna have to be a little more specific.

 

Would it be safe to run a 100 Shot? 200 Shot? 600 Shot?

 

Honestly the sky is the limit. You will just have to monitor for engine knock. But the higher you go the more cylinder pressure there is. Most guys locally are running 100-150 shots on there SC cobras.

 

What forged parts? Block? A 200 shot is very common, so is 400 for a proper motor. Are you shooting for a certain et?

 

hey batass ,what ignition upgrades would u recomend with his setup, the procharger at 10lbs an maybe or maybe not a 75 shot. just curious thanks

 

Msd dizzy, coil, and box. But just a coil might do well enough.

 

id go with a blaster coil and 6btm box.

 

Dart block, lunati crank,JE Pistons AFR 210 heads yada yada yada. No looking for a certain et. But you never know what may come along. More for a insurance policy. If i could saftley run a wet 200 shot that would get me close to 1000 HP. That always rolls of the tongue nicely.

You can get a better idea of the motor on my car domain page.

 

Well, I think you'll be looking at some extremely high cylinder pressures. So you'll want to address that, or use the head gaskets as a "fuse", but they might push out kinda often.

I can't see why it couldnt handle a 200 shot. Standalone fuel system and cell is probably a good idea. I couldnt tell ya what to do for a 400 shot. Pretty wicked to say the least. Block, rotating assy, and the AFR's strong deck should handle it well.

T-56? Hmmmm....
A thousand does roll out nice, ha.

 

Some analysis has shown that a strong inductive ignition is better than a capacitive ignition for boost applications.

 

If you have the kit you might as well use it. If you ran a "75HP" kit and 15PSI then it would roughly turn into about 75*2 = 150HP.
As for the purge kit for show........might as well add some electronic exhaust cut-outs and a giant bass speaker(s) to make more noise. Could do a strobe light kit and some under car flashing lights that go off while you are making all the noise.

 

Lol, wtf.

Could you explain the inductive vs capacitive?

 

Inductive is a stock thirdgen ignition. It can benefit from a better coil and module in the distributor. It works by charging up the coil with 12volts and then switching OFF the voltage (on the ground side) to make the spark plug spark. The more current through the coil and faster switching to OFF make a hotter & longer spark.

A capacitive ignition charges a capacitor to around 250volts and applies this to the coil. This will give a higher spark voltage, but the spark is shorter in time compared to the inductive ignition. At low RPM, there is enough time to do multi-spark because there is enough time.

With a capacitive ignition at high RPM there is no time for multi-spark-discharge (MSD). There is always an energy loss (internal resistance / ESR) from the capacitor connected to the coil. The inductive ignition doesn't have this loss and therefore has more energy applied to the spark plug. The capacitive ignition voltage is higher than an inductive ignition, but how high a voltage is really necessary to light the fuel/air charge? Keep in mind boost tends to make a longer "burn time".
Energy is always conserved......so a higher voltage means the spark time will be shorter.

That is the theory anyway. Fuel/air (AFR) ratio also has a lot to do with it. Lean burn tends to favor inductive ignitions (hard charge to light). Capacitive favors rich AFR.

An MSD / Capacitive ignition is great for low rpm, big cam engines (helps stabilize idle due to multi-spark). For high RPM I would rather have an inductive ignition with a good coil (Crane, MSD, etc) and a good ignition module. Just my opinion.....

 

so you are saying for 4500 rpm up in a boosted application,say maybe 10 to 15 lbs an inductive system would be fine? im just makin sure im readin you right. just makin sure you were talkin about boosted applications an not na ones,cause that was what i was askin batass. so its a give an take situation i guess because id rather have a better spark at higher rpms,than worrying about idle to 3000 rpm i guess?? in a fairly stout street machine your runnin mostly above 3000 rpm.junk am i gettin what your sayin? thanks

 

I dont have a nitrous kit or it would already be on the car. I sold it a while back. I'm also not running 15psi. If i was i wouldnt try and run nitrous also. LOL, i might do the electric cutouts also but never speakers and strobes. What is this, civic.com?

 

The point is, that even at 10 psi, you are making some serious heat and a 75 nitrous shot would still probably double.

Personally I'd put the money into tires or suspension to get a better 60 ft time.

 

I called Nitrous Express to ask the same question I posted here. Explained my set up in full detail, and got a long pause. The he replied "Dude I have know idea, thank you for calling". WTF??? Somebody please console me and tell me I got the guy that just started the techline the day before!

 

Well, some of those guys that answer the phone don't know much else but what the company tells them to say.

IIRC, carcraft did an article with a thirdgen+blower+nitrous. Type camaro + vortech+nitrous and you should see it.

I have never seen anyone want to or try to run that much nitrous on top of a blower. Thats a lot of power adder, and there might be some small things you need to have done, like maybe a wider ring gap.

DwnCam, if I were you, I'd start a new thread asking this question, you'll get more hits from more experienced people.

Here's the link, kinda weak, not much tech data......
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...est/index.html