noboostnogo

iTrader: (4)

whats going on guys??
i recently bought a car to daily drive so i decided to boost my trans am. i'm going with a single t70 turbo @ 7psi to begin with. i will also be getting rid of my serpentine belt stuff inlcuding ac, ps, smog pump, water pump and replace it with an electric water pump and just 1 v-belt for the alternator and if i can another belt for the ps so i can have more room for the the turbo! my only concers are maf sensor
should i put it before the intake manifold or turbo inlet?? and i was also thinkin about gettin a new chip for my computer for tunning?
is 7psi on the t70 enough for a 350?? where is that gonna put me powerwise if lets say im currently pushing 290ish HP w/ a 9.2:1 64cc heads and an lt1 intake w/ 24# injectors @ 46psi??

My car is a '89 Trans am that originally came stock with a tuned port 305, i replaced it with a mildly built 350, maf sensor is still from the 305 idk if they are the same or not! please help me out, thanks

SpitotRs305

if the t70 will produce 7psi on a 350... it is enough to run a 350 that PSI that every one talks about is "extra" air if the turbo was not big enough you would end up seeing vacuum...well not really but that is the simplest explanation

rtkjadams

iTrader: (2)

The T70 is plenty, BBDS was selling there turbo setups with 62-1 turbos. I have personally have run the 62-1 up to 10psi with no problems.....

noboostnogo

iTrader: (4)

why would the turbo not be able to produce 7psi on a 350??

and if it does produce 7psi is that enought for a 350 to handle?? and

where would i put the MAF?? before the intake where it is now or before the turbo inlet where all it would see would be suction and no boost?

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

noboostnogo, the MAF sensor is responsible for measuring air volume and density, you'll want it to measure supplemental boost. The BOV, on the other hand, you'll want to mount that before the MAF, and not after....

noboostnogo

iTrader: (4)

ohhh ok that makes since!!

So heres my turbo setup please advice me since this is my first turbo v8, i have boosted 4cyl. before
-single turbo manifold
-T70 turbo @ 7psi
-2.5" IC pipes
-24x12x3 IC
-38mm external wastegate
-50mm BOV
-Hopefully a 3" DP

now here is my current setup please advice me:
-350 stock bore
-ported 64cc heads
-lt1 manifold, 24# injectors
-walbro 255lph fuel pump
-52mm TB
-3.73 gears
-flat tops
-compression ratio of about 9.2:1
-electric water pump
-no ac, ps, or smog pump
-3" borla catback
-1.6 rocker arms
-custom prom
-cam: lift .488/.495
duration @ .050 212/218

is it ok to boost this engine?? please let me know what i should do and what fuel pressure i should run.

rtkjadams

iTrader: (2)

What A/R is the Hot side? I wouldn't run anything smaller than a 3" DP. What is the Lobe Seperation on that cam?, Your gonna need bigger injectors unless you run a FMU....

Ray

noboostnogo

iTrader: (4)

here are the specs of the turbo:
T70 TURBO CHARGER SPEC:
4" INLET OLD SIDE
2.5" V BAND HOT SIDE
WET FLOAT BEARING
DIVIDED T3 SIZE FLANGE
OIL COOLING TURBO CHARGER
600 HORSE POWER CAPABLE
COMPRESSOR WHEEL SPEC:
WHEEL: 0.70 A/R
IND SIZE: 52.76MM
EXD SIZE: 75.46MM
TRIM SIZE: 48.9
TURBINE WHEEL SPEC:
WHEEL: 0.84 A/R
IND SIZE: 57.75MM
EXD SIZE: 73.35MM
TRIM SIZE: 61.9

The lobe separation is 112.0.
Now when it comes to the FMU i have used a 12:1 before on a 4cyl. and it ran fine BUT it doesnt do anything with the timing, if i do go with a FMU should i still get a new prom for the car?? is 12:1 too rich or should i go with a 10:1???
　

noboostnogo

iTrader: (4)

any advice??

rtkjadams

iTrader: (2)

I would suggest a "B.E.G.I" adjustable FMU. They offer much more tuneability. That Cam isn't the greatest for a turbo but it will work ok.

As far as if you should get a "prom", if you know someone that is local and can burn a new "prom" for you then you can forgo the FMU and run a "749" ecm, and it will control everything. BUT that is for someone that knows what there doing.

Ray

noboostnogo

iTrader: (4)

Is the turbo OK for my engine?

If i were to go with just the adjustable FMU, am is my car gonna miss, run like crap or get a Check Engine light due to so much suction going through the MAF??

Well the prom that i have in there now i got from Brian at TPICHIPS, its supposevily a custom chip for my setup, he told me that he would burn me a new prom for boost if i sent it to him and $50, ive heard about the 749 computer but i cannot seem to find any info on it, is that the speed density computer??

rtkjadams

iTrader: (2)

Yes the turbo will work ok.... The 749 ecm is SD.

Ray

noboostnogo

iTrader: (4)

so am i gonna run into any computer related problems if i use just the FMU?? limp mode? will the car run fine when the MAF sees so much suction???

noboostnogo

iTrader: (4)

bump!!

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Listen if you want, or not i dont care.

That turbo isnt anywhere close to big enough, and them calling it a "T70" is a load of ****.

noboostnogo

iTrader: (4)

so what would you recommend?? i would love to spend $1k+ on a turbocharger but that would not be possible!

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

First I'd suggest you read this page, every last bit of it, these people have been doing turbo LT1's and LS1's for a while, and have actual factual data.

http://www.forcedinductions.com/help.htm

www.turbobygarrett.com you can check out the compressor maps for each of their turbos

Towards the bottom, you'll find a 355 LT1 air consumption chart, you use this to compare with the turbo map, to find out how well suited it will be to your engine.

The turbo specs you posted, the closest thing i can find, which is VERY close, for the compressor side is the garrett 2876R
This is a good choice for a 4 cyl, small 6 cyl, but you arent even on the map with it for the 355 air consumption.

Then you've got a T3 hotside, cool if you are again running a 4 cyl, or small 6, but when you're trying to flow a V8 5+ liter engine through a single port, you really need to step to the T4 turbine.

I know you dont want to spend a bunch of money, this is just for reference, to give you an idea of how large a turbo you need to actually be within the map.

The garrett 4088R, would be a good choice, I know you arent likely to buy that because its something like a $2000, ball bearing unit, and ball bearing you really dont need, but you need something with comparable compressor sizing.

Here are the compressor specs for the turbo you posted:
COMPRESSOR WHEEL SPEC:
WHEEL: 0.70 A/R
IND SIZE: 52.76MM
EXD SIZE: 75.46MM
TRIM SIZE: 48.9

Heres the GT2876R

Heres the 4088R
.72 a/r
Inducer 63.5MM
Exducer 88MM
Trim 52

Notice how much bigger the inducer and exducer on the 4088R is than the one you posted and the 2876R


This would be about ideal, though I know you said a $1000 turbo isnt in the plans:

http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/me...egory_Code=TBN

Either of those in the .84 exhaust a/r would work very well.

The 4088 is also available there in a non ball bearing for about $1000 also.

Heres about your best budget minded choice

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Maste...5486QQtcZphoto

The .96 exhaust housing wont be ideal for the quickest spool, a .81 or .84 would be more ideal, but it's better than the only other option for the master powers which is a .68 or .70, which will likely choke you off in the upper rpm, and probably spool too quickly.

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

master power t-70 would be the smallest you should even consider. I just went with a t-76 turbonectis ceramic ball bearing turbo. There is a guy listing 2 turbonectics t-76 turbos ball bearing at 750 each and are new in the box. Wont last long at that price though. Would make way more than any t-70 would and the bb would last a lot longer on the street and why I went ceramic ball bearing.I plan on driving this car every day and dont want to wipe out bushings all the time.
----------
by the way I have a lot of pics posted of my car in threads as I just got done building my hot side.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Considering the garrett 4088R has a smaller compressor wheel than the MP T70, i'd have to call that bad advice....

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

on your end. I got beat up over trying to use a mp t-70 on my car as it being too small and you are recommending a smaller one. So how is that bad advice. Especially coming from a guy with a 4 cyl in his car. Stick to you little engines bud. I researched it for months prior to picking the t-76 for my 383 and if I had a 355 like this guy wouldnt even think of smaller than a t-70. You have to remember that the big v-8 needs to move way more air than your little 4 cyl. Not looking at a hp rating here but the efficienty of the actual turbo and if it can more enough air for the cubic inches. So the garrett 4088r if it is smaller than a mp t70 then I would have to say it is too small to make the 355 run efficent and not over heat the turbo as it tries to move all that air through a small hole. What is fine on a 600hp 4cyl insnt always enough for a 400 8cyl. I had half the guys here go on and on over turbo sizes not two months ago. Guess you missed that one.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Are you seriously that stupid ?
What works on my little engine, coming from a guy that has a 4 cyl in his car ? I've owned more F body's than you're likely to ever own, and spun wrenches on a few times that figure.

Not look at the horsepower level, look at the efficiency huh ? Moron if i was looking at just the HP level, the 480 RWHP that the 2876R will support would likely be enough for him, let alone the 700 HP rating of the 4088R

Your 383 ? Who gives a crap, he asked about his 350, NOT your 383
As far as efficient goes, how bout instead of just pulling a load of crap out of thin air, you do the same thing I did for him and provide an air consumption chart, somewhat close to his particular engine, then go ahead and run it by a few compressor maps, instead of just spewing your bullish hearsay.

rtkjadams

iTrader: (2)

Where are these T-76 turbos for sale?

noboostnogo

iTrader: (4)

Thanks for all the info and the great advice! thats what i wanted to get from the pros.

Now the reason why i dont wanna spend 1k on a turbocharger is not because i dont have the money but because i just want something fun to play around and not an all time race car and plus i dont think it would be a wise move to spend 1k on a turbo and 150 on a FMU for tunning. if i spent that much i would deff. go with a dyno tune and probably a 749 ecm, but right now im still workcin the MAF.

BTW i am really considering the bigger MP turbo that z28***** recommended but is 7 psi on that turbo enough or too much for my 350?? and will the FMU do it without any MAF/ECM misfunction??

Thanks again for allt he good info and the chart, that really helped!

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

Alright you seem to have serious hositility problems. I just went through what he is explaining and I am telling all the info that was passed on to me from the people on this forum that actually drive f-bodies with turbos on them. I have 3 in my garage right now and am new to turbos but not how to go fast. My 92 ran 11s@118 my 96 11s @121 and my 94 10s@132. all are n/a with no power adders. I built them myself and the transmissions and rearends. I am a master mechanic and nothing is out of my reach. I just finished building the single turbo on my 92 from scratch. I have been asking all the same questions that he is asking and am paaing on what I was told. Has nothing to do with pulling stuff out of the air that seems to be your thing as you dont even drive a f-body. You have a 4 cyl 240 listed. No one needs to here from people that dont have real world experience with them. I was told by more than a few members here that a t-70 is the smallest you would want to run on a 350 to keep it safe. Being the small size of it will have problems moving the air that the engine needs and create unwanted heat. So next time you want to call someone stupid look at where it is coming from. You are calling all the people on this forum that responded to my posts that actually drive a f-body with a turbo. So if you have a opinion state it and dont bash others over what they have to say. Next time it happens expect a nice suspension over it. No one wants to hear that crap when trying to learn something about there car. No back to topic. I just went through all this last month and everyone that actually drives a turbo f-body recommended a t-70 specifically a master power t-70 as the smallest turbo for a 350 inch motor. Think of it this way what happend when you get a clogged cat on a car? It over heats and wont drive right. Same thing if you strap a small housing to the exhaust of the engine. If you restrict it too much it will create too much underhood heat and to make the same power of a larger one will have to run more boost making even more heat. the ford guys who have been doing this longer than most f-body guys use the mp t-70 on the 302 and get great results. Some got stock short blocks into the 9s in the quarter. That turbo can be had new in the box for 580 and for what you are doing is a great choice. this is according to what I have been told by those that have done this so just passing on the info here. Take it for what it is worth. I am sure that the guys who I have talked to are tired of answering the same question over and over. DO a search and you will see the same thing over and over. MP t70 is a great choice for what you are doing. As far as your maf. If you go code$59(I did) it is speed density and no longer use a maf. You will need a 3 bar map and wide band o2 for it . Use a 730 computer and repin for the code $59. Go to code $59.org and it is all there on how to do it. As far as the t-76 turbonetics for sale they were on ebay under turbonetics last week. Hope you can actually use this info and not listen to some of the garbage that people feel they need to spew. As I said I am passing on things told to me when I asked the same questions so use it or not.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Alright noboostnogo, you've obviously had enough sense to take a look at the flow chart, and attempt to take a look at the compressor maps, you're way ahead of mr i just pick a turbo out of thin air.

The MPT T70 will be a great choice for you as I said prior to captain "YOU MUST RUN A 70MM TURBO OR BIGGER OR ELSE"

He's posted no factual data on why not, only run his mouth about you better not run anything below a, technically 69mm turbo, because its going to heat the air charge. Which he doesnt have the sense to take a look at a flow chart for the engine, and compare it to an actual map.

As i've pointed out to you already, the turbo you first posted, it may have been listed as a T70, and following lt1z350's rules, since he stated that a T70 will be great for your engine, believing both of those, will get you into very hot water, heres where you need to do a bit of research, and you'll see that im correct.

Again the turbo you posted has these specs, and you were being told its a "T70"

COMPRESSOR WHEEL SPEC:
WHEEL: 0.70 A/R
IND SIZE: 52.76MM
EXD SIZE: 75.46MM


The MPT T70, has compressor specs like this

Wheel: .70 A/R
Ind Size 69MM
Exd Size 91MM

An Actual turbonetics T70 wheel has these dimensions

Ind Size 69.1MM
Exd Size 97.8MM

Just going off of someones claimed name, as you see can get you very different things across the board, the flow map for each is going to be different, yes the MPT T70 and turbonetics unit arent going to be as far apart as either compared to the unit you posted, and like i said, the unit you posted wont even be on the map for a decent 350.

Like I said, the FACTS, not this guys hearsay, are that a compressor wheel of 70mm or larger isnt needed for a 350, yes there are some that big and larger that will work good, but what mr smart guy doesnt realize, is that a turbo compressor map is used exactly to plot out how efficient your turbo will be, at various RPM points, so that you can get something properly sized for your engine displacement, head flow, desired boost level, etc, Each factor comes into play as you can see in the link I already provided you.

Heres another good example, turbotechnologys single turbo LS1 kits, the base turbo is a turbonetics 60-1, the upgrade is a T76, its a perfect example of you dont NEED a 70+mm inducer turbo, however, one may be ideal for you, something a hair smaller might just put you at a better efficiency point at the same level of boost, realistically, you want to look at something with an inducer of probably 62mm or better, but again the map is comprised not only of the inducer, but inducer, exducer, and trim.

The inducer is the small diameter of the compressor wheel, and the exducer is the outer edge FYI.

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

Not all people have the time or understanding to read compressor maps and why you might be going out and over someones head when you try to explain it that way. Some of these are kids trying to do this for the first time and would have a clue on what you are trying to explain. I didnt say dare not run anything smaller I said what was recommended to me by the guys who have done this. Do you have a turbo small block chevy??? Most of the time people just want to know what others are using and having good luck with it. As far as what you are saying and putting up probably sounds like charlie browns teacher to them and dont even know what to do with it. Not saying anyone is dumb but some just dont understand and why they ask questions. Did anyone say "oh now that I read the compressor map I know what I need" No, and probably dont give a crap about it. They want to know what works. It is people like you that ruin this for others and now it I think you need to take a break for a while from this. If I am wrong with what I am saying as far as the stuff he is saying than the guy who started this tell me or do you just want to know what works. All that induser exduser trim and so on did it help you decide??

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

He wanted to know what works, i gave him several examples of what does, and will, you wanted to contradict good information, because of your hearsay, if anything that is part of what ruins a good thread, people posting their hearsay as facts.

The inducer sizes were to illustrate how easily it is for someone to get the wrong turbo, he was told that he could get the "T70" he originally posted, however the compressor sizes are nowhere near that of the actual turbonetics T70 which would work for him, and would do exactly what you said about superheating the air charge, and being way out of its efficiency range, however according to you since he's told its a T70, it'll work just fine.

I gave him the how and why it will or wont work.
And probably saved him from wasting money on an unusable turbo, that he was already told would work.

All you came up with is to mention one of the same turbos I showed him, would work, and provide false claims of the others not working because they werent just as big.

SpitotRs305

http://www.turbofast.com.au/turbomap.html

a java program desinged to help pick the correct turbo

Ray hall is/was a huge name in turbocharging

Saigon_Bob

iTrader: (2)

sigh.... ill go thru my school notes... to properly choose a turbo you'll need flow ratings on the heads as well as a few other things....

also learn to read a compressor map...

Saigon_Bob

iTrader: (2)

if you dont have the time or knowledge to read a compressor map you shouldnt be under taking a turbo project....