camshaftxe

If you have an engine built for 11:1 comp, what is the highest octane you can run?

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

The highest octane you can run? High as you can find I suppose. 110 race gas would work fine. Not sure if you can find that around very easily.

camshaftxe

Could you hypothetically run it on a 200 proof grain alcohol, which has an octane rating of around 100?

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Uhhhh. Pure ethanol basically? I believe it has a higher octane rating then that, due to the latent heat of vaporization, ie the motor octane is higher.

Yes, I believe you could. Keep in mind stoich is much more rich, so jet accordingly, ie 30% richer than gasoline.

I won't even ask where you'd be getting grain alcohol in that type of quantity...

5678TA

you pretty much want to run your car on moonshine?? well you can usually run more compression with alky.. i run 11.1:1 on 92 octane chevron crap.. some people say they loose power if they go to straight 110.. all depends on your motor combo..

btw, why would you want to spend more money on gas??

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

*cough* homebrew *cough*.
Homer Simpson : "one swig for me, one swig for the car, one for me, one for the car....

Rayzor32

iTrader: (1)

200 proof doesnt exist only 196 proof

igotta355z28

iTrader: (1)

11:1 cars love alky, better use the right carb, fuel lines and fuel pump, alky tears up rubber.....

camshaftxe

Interesting, what kind of compression would yeild the greatest results off of a fuel of 110-115

5678TA

i know that 190 proof exists.. ask my throat..

alky carbs are alot different from gasoline.. you also need alot of fuel to get a good A/F ratio.. i think it was like 8:1 vs. the 12:1 for gas.. something like that.. dont quote me on it

i would think upwards of 13+:1.. my friend has a iron headed 421 with 12:1 and he does a mix of 25% 110 and 75% 92 octane.. i've heard that the E85 gas is capable of 12.5:1..

camshaftxe

If I use an alky carb, will it run regular gas?
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also what kind of fuel pump would I need. Special alky pump? If so will that pump work with gas also?

Batass

If it did run on reg gas, it would be dog **** rich. Ethanol really isnt that hard on stuff, every car since like '86 has a better fuel system to handle the 10% ethanol in gasoline.

You would however need a larger pump since you will have to flow more alcohol vs gas. I'm assuming your talking about your TBI 356? With the low pressure of TBI, you would probably be fine with a 255 pump.

I have heard some guys running up to 16:1 compression on E85, 85%ethanol. You'll have to think hard about whether you can run the alky all the time or not. If you'll have to make a switch sometime, the easiest way would be with fuel injection.

I've never seen a pure ethanol carb, a methanol one wouldnt work right. There are E85 carbs, and conversion kits with metering blocks that get you in the ballpark. Quickfuel makes one. So you could mix about 10-15% gas in with your shine, and on that tune, the engine would probably run on straight gas. Not well mind you, but it would run.

I'm dying to make my own still. Screw gas. I need much much more property though. And more dogs.

camshaftxe

Well heres the deal, lets just say Ive got my own still, and I can produce shine for right at 2$ a gallon, my goal is to set up a carbd engine to run between 75 and 85% shine, and a little gas, I have a 3000$ budget, and my current engine as a good platform, so my question is what exactly would I need in regards to the fuel system, and if I do this is it going to make good power?

Batass

Well I would say that you could run a line right to my backyard.

If you do it right, hell yea it'll make good power. For the fuel system a 255 pump will probably only support about 450hp with alcohol. Just a guess. You could run two of them, or you could get a kenne bell boost-a-pump which sends more voltage to the pump. Either one of these would probably support 600hp. You're gonna need 30% more fuel and flow than gas rated pumps and line.

The big question is whats your motor specs? Do you plan on making more power in the future? The stock lines might handle the flow. Maybe not.

To get the most out of the alcohol I would say run around 12-13:1 cr. Compression is your friend.

I'd pick up an E85 carb from the carb shop, CSU, or AED. It will save a lot of time messing with setting one up. Also makes the continuous slight tuning easier.

You're basically talking about creating your own E85. Check out turbomustangs.com for a lot of good E85 info. A lot of guys switch FROM race gas TO E85!

Oh, one thing you do need to be concerned about is, consistency and water contamination. As long as you keep it close to the same, you shouldnt have to do more than adjust air screws.

camshaftxe

What kind of water contamination and how do I get around it?

SpitotRs305

charcoal filters and distilled water pre brewing... and air tight containers post brew

camshaftxe

Batass

Alcohol absorbs water, so air tight containers will keep it from sucking water in from the air, I'm not too familiar with the distilling process so I don't know about those other things he's talking about. I know charcoal does a great job of filtering, I doubt it would pull out water though.

You know how gas can get water in it from sitting in a half empty metal tank? Condensation forms on the inside of the wall from temperature changes. The water settles to the bottom of the gas, and you can drain it out. With alcohol, it mixes. Its not really something you should worry too much about though, unless its sitting for a really long time.

camshaftxe

Do I need to be concerned with getting water in the tank?

Batass

Gas tank? I don't think so. I think having 15% gas mixed with it helps. I havent heard of anyone having problems with water wtih E85.

SpitotRs305

charcoal filters will help remove any foreign matter from the alc..sediment... that type of stuff.... and distilled water for making the mash or what ever you will be using why add contaminates at the beginning when you are trying to avoid them in the end...will help with consistancy

midwest

You can make 200 proof. You distill it to 190-195, then you dry it.

One is to pour in a bag of salt calcium chloride, the water mixes with the salt, and the alcohol does not. So what happends is all the water and salt will be at one level and the alcohol will be at an other. LIke oil on top of water. skim the alcohol out and then allow the salt water mix to air dry.

camshaftxe

So basically, If I buy an e85 ready carb, and say a walbro 255, thats all I need for the fuel system? Aaaahhh the biuld...Im thinking dome tops, with vette heads, got any suggestions?

Batass

Well, if your budget is 3000 bucks, then I would go with some better heads than vette heads. Ported L98 vette heads are good, but for the money, I think you can do better.

You can leave the crank and rods stock. After the carb and pump, including all hardware and odds and ends, you'll have at least 2000 left. If your 700r4 is stock, you need to strengthen it. You're probably going to make around 450-500 flywheel hp, so the stock one probably won't last too long. A built one is around 7-800 bucks, the kit to diy is around 450. That should be a priority, or you might be disappointed.

So after that, domed forged pistons, RHS vortec heads are hard to beat for the money vs power and high tq, a .525-.550ish lift cam, stall converter?, dual plane intake, good headers and exhaust.

Head decision is very important.

Rayzor32

iTrader: (1)

id just wait till you blow up the trans then buy a TH350 either way gonna have to spend money now or later, but yeah with hp 450+ your gonna have to strengthen the drivetrain, stock rearend probably wont last that long either

camshaftxe

I have hooker shorties, and a true dual exhaust, also a b&m stage 2 shift kit, and 2500 stall, rear end probably isnt going to hold up long. Does my extra bore affect anything? Do the pistons come a little bigger for .040 bore?

Batass

Your tires will have everything to do with the rear holding up. Since its an auto, it won't be getting smacked hard. Also since you have "economy" gears in it, it'll actually hold up well. Well, should anyway.

You can get pistons just about any way you want. 6" rods make it difficult sometimes, but you dont have to worry about that.

Sounds like your good on the exhaust and the stall will work. With your budget, your going to have a screamer.

camshaftxe

Thank you very much batass, your advice and suggestions have been most helpful.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Don't use domed pistons! That idea has sucked since the '60s!

Just up the compression another way, ie flat tops with 3.75" stroke, hint hint....
Then get 64cc heads and you're laughing.

Batass

That would be almost 12:1. I think you got probably go more. 58cc chambers, and a small 4cc dome. If your just gonna mill some heads, you could probably go smaller than 58 depending on how big your cam is.