Iroc-Dennis

hello

i have buyed a paxton SC for my 5.7 tpi engine!

i have a question about the paxton supercharger!
i have buy one at ebay!and i want to know some things about how to install it!
i have a 5,7 tpi corvette engine from 1988
it`s lite modificate (crane comp cam,hedmann headers,24 lbs injectors) it`s running great know!

i have also a MAF sensor on the engine and i see manny pictures from a supercharged tpi systems without a MAF sensor!!
how must i do that??
and do you think of the supercharger runs good on my engine with these modifications!

it`s a paxton SN93

thanks Dennis

joeblue83

iTrader: (8)

Your going to need bigger heads for more flow and bigger exhaust possibly and custom burned chip. Your going to have a stellar setup

grover85

iTrader: (1)

You don't need heads. Exhaust is optional. As for a tune. Not sure if running an FMU is all you need to do or not.
To be honest with you the SN blowers are not that great. 5-7 psi is there limit. Not sure what your power goals are.
You can run the maf sensor. I believe you are suppose to run it before the blower. Google for install instructions on that blower.
Your engine should run fine with this blower. Don't expect a huge gain with it though.

jhammer274

Hey

Ive got a 388 sbc ATI Procharged tpi motor.
Having issues with the maf sensor, if i warm the car up b4 driving it runs perfect, but if i start up & go b4 warming up, trouble code comes up,

any help in disabling or any other fixes?`

Iroc-Dennis

heey many thanks for the answers!

but what did you mean with FMU ???
i have aluminum heads (original from the corvette L98!
i have a bigger exhaust system (headman headers and full 3 inch pipe)

i`m getting now about 310 HP


i think i get with that blower about 450 HP-500 HP
so what did you think??

okey i will look at google for instructions!

thanks

joeblue83

iTrader: (8)

Like I said before with a blower the valves on the heads should be at least 2.08 for the intake and 1.6 on the exhaust. I think the L98 corvette heads are 1.94 on the intake and 1.5 on the exhaust. Some tell me if I am wrong on that.

grover85

iTrader: (1)

Dude with the blower he is looking at running he does not need heads. The blower he has is ment to work on a stock motor.

Guest

Forget replacing things like heads unless you feel like it.

FMU= fuel management unit

You need something to control both the fuel and the spark differently when you put pressurized air into the intake. I dont know if the kit you got was complete or not and I dont recall what Paxton included. Otherwise you could run lean or get spark knock or both and ruin the engine. The MAF isnt an issue, probably best to mount it on the inlet side not the outlet side.

Iroc-Dennis

okey,but how must i place it?
must i cut some things off the original MAF?

so look at the picture and say to me where i can place it best!

thanks dennis









and this is my kit

jayk2k3

iTrader: (2)

is that a supercharger with the v belts? (3 pics up from the bottom). how u pull that off

joeblue83

iTrader: (8)

you want to keep the maf about the same distance from the throttle body

antoine

i have a sn-93 paxton with a mass airflow sensor and mine is on the inlet hose
on the driver side fender.

Guest

Doesnt matter how far the MAF is from the throttle body. Just place it in a convienient location. You may need to use a couple pieces of hose to get it fit into that inlet tract.

joeblue83

iTrader: (8)

it does matter how far the maf is away from the throttle body.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

And he needs 2.08" valves too, right??

Where did all these new guys come from??

Dennis,

Put the MAF inline with the flexible intake duct on the air cleaner side. If you're using the BOSCH bypass valve with that kit, you'll need to make sure it dumps the wasted air back in AFTER the MAF.

450hp with that blower is not out of reach, but your TPI setup will limit you.
Doing back to back testing in 2004 with a vortech, I found even the best ported TPI setup lost 10mph in the 1/4mi over a singleplane.

But besdies that, you will need to upgrade your fuel system if you are using an FMU. You want an 8:1 FMU unit, and a booster pump that will allow you to hit 80psi and maintain 50gph of volume.

The other solution, is to switch to a ford MAF and tune with laptop. Tequilaboy has a very similar engine to yours (aftermarket cam, Corvette L98 heads) and he's running a powerdyne like me, 7psi with a ford MAF. I think he's pushing around 450-500 crank HP.

-- Joe

Iroc-Dennis

heey can you make some pictures?so i can see what you realy means!!

thanks dennis

Iroc-Dennis

and guys

what do you all think that i must buy to compleet the setup for a good running engine with blower??

joeblue83

iTrader: (8)

I give advice that was told to me by the guys at TPIS. Yeah the smaller valves will limit his power somewhat. You didn't have to say that about the 2.08 valves. You trying to be funny? Because I am new to the site does not mean I am new to cars! Thanks anyways

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

1) Your advice was wrong. But its ok.
2) TPIS is. well. TPIS.

We have a .. Standard around here of facts. Don't take it personal, because it wasn't.

-- Joe

tequilaboy

My ears must've been ringing.

As Joe mentioned, the Ford MAF conversion is a good way to go and also very flexible as far as packaging the sensor itself. It can be used either as a blow-through or draw-through to suit any plumbing configuration. It can also be done inexpensively. I did mine for $130.

It is not a plug and play solution, but it is actually pretty easy to do.

One pin on the ecm must be re-pinned along with several programming changes to read the new sensor input location, calibrate and filter the sensor signal and correct the load calculation depending upon the required range. Some trial and error tuning of the sensor calibration will also be required for each application.

I'm running a 200% extended range calibration for up to 510 gm/sec flow.

Here's a close up pic of the 05+ Ford MAF sensor installed in a 3" tube:



And another pic to reference the location:

joeblue83

iTrader: (8)

Thank you tequila boy

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

I really don't see why you couldn't do the same thing with a GM maf and skip a large part of the programming hassle.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

If I recall he tried that first. The ford maf produces a 0-5 voltage signal which the ECM already has the capabilty of reading. Just need to redo the tables.

The TPI maf can't read beyond around 280g, so thats out of the question, and the later style MAF's use very awkward signals.

And the programming has to be worked around anyway, since it can only read to 255g.

-- Joe

Iroc-Dennis

does any now if a MSD btm is recommended
i have heard that i must use one!!
and a high flow in-line fuel pump
and a fuel pressure regulator

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

The maf can read any airflow that the tube that it’s mounted in can flow, all it does is converts the airflow across the coils to a number (voltage) and then the chip (maf scalars…) define what that number means for airflow.

The ECM’s can’t understand anything more than 255gm/s because the code didn’t leave enough memory for a larger number. As long as you’re using the same base code without making the maf tables larger to hold a larger value, it doesn’t make a difference what you use for a maf, once you go past 255 the ECM won’t understand it (OTOH, once you’re past 255, it’s pretty safe to assume that you’re at WOT and high rpm in most cars so you can still tune for that using PE…).

Using a different maf doesn’t buy you anything over using the same maf in a tube that flows as much as that different maf. The added disadvantage with the mustang maf is that if I recall correctly it outputs a frequency instead of a voltage like the GM maf, so you either have to convert that signal to something sensible to the ECM, or you need to completely rewrite the code to deal with that (or both).

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Actually it's not memory, it's the ability to count. A signed 8 bit integer is 255 bits. An unsigned integer is -128 to +128. The code uses a single signed integer. On a 68HC11 processor, their is an assembly instruction ADBD which can combine two 8 bit integers together thus count higher than 255. Unfortunately, this instruction is not available on the GM ECMs.

So no matter how you slice it, without having code that uses a single counter for one table, then switches to a secondary counter for another table you can't realy have more than 255..

PE is useless for boost because your airflow will vary with RPM based on engine load. Its 'ok' for cars that will always need xx msec pw at a given RPM. (i.e, NA cars). And a turbocharged car can deliver over 255 even at part
throttle and slight AE.

I think you have it backwards, or maybe I do. But the "LTx" maf is digial, where the Ford MAF is voltage (I think). It just so happens the ford maf delivers a reading of 580 (or so) grams at 5 volts, vs the TPI maf of 255 grams at 5 volts.

Of course, I could be wrong about *that* part. I don't really play in MAF code as I feel GM's way of doing it is just outright crazy. It should have one large load table of "GRAMS vs RPM" with Inj PW multipliers (or adders).

-- Joe

tequilaboy

People sure love to argue.

The late model GM frequency based MAFs can be made to work , but you also need a MAF translator to convert the high frequency output to the low frequency that the 165 ecms are capable of receiving, and repin the ecm and make programming changes to accomodate a frequency MAF.

The beauty of the Ford MAF approach is that they are analog and don't require an expensive MAF translator, only a simple repin at the ecm and programming changes are required to make it work.

Depending upon the actual sensor used, the output can range from 0-6 volts, but some models will continue to output all the way to 12 volts. Extended range aftermarket sensors are also available with reduced output vs flow curves in the 6 volt range for very high flow applications. The small size and packaging convenience of these sensor also makes these very attractive.

These sensors are readily available and inexpensive compared with the GM offerings or older tpi style MAFs

The stock 05+ Ford sensor that I'm using will output up to 6 volts. The output is capped at 6 volts for this sensor. I'm using a simple analog voltage divider circuit to reduce the 6 volt range back down to 5 volts for the 165 ecm.

6 volts in a 3" tube is sufficient flow for around 475 rwhp according to the Ford tuner crowd. In my car, I'm seeing 5.88 volts at my maximum flow (4.9 volts at the ecm after the voltage divider which consists of an external 10 k resistor along with the ecm circuits input resistor).

If you need to measure more flow, you can use a larger tube or buy an HPX or other style extended range sensor.

I've also rescaled my ecm so that 255 counts represents 510 gram/sec instead of 255. By cutting the resolution in half, I've doubled the range.

I can measure and provide adequate fuel control with 42# injectors and no FMU for up to 510 gram/sec with normal PE tuning and normal target AFRs. Even more with exploiting the PE tables if desired, but if that were the case, I'd just go with an extended range sensor, so I could still measure the extra flow.

If the advantages aren't obvious by now, I don't know what more to say.

Guest

255 is just a number, in reality its sort of meaningless. There's more limitation in the size of the scalar tables rather than limits of 255 gm/sec... a limit that is easily destroyed via various means.

The 32, 32b, and 6E cars are voltage based MAFs. The 32 and 32b have a PW table though, if you wanted to mess with that sort of thing.

As for a BTM, thats something you will need if your kit does not have one. If you dont retard your timing under boost, its going to knock and do damage. You also need to add fuel under boost, thats what you'd want a FMU (fuel management unit) for. There are computer/programming methods to do this as well, its a matter of your abilities and how you want to get the engine what it needs.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I've only played with $6E, and it was only for a year or so before I switched to SD back in '02. I know what your saying about 255 being just a number, and by halfing the resolution as TB did with the different MAF it works. I'm just saying, i'd rather have a true airflow count/calc that was dead on in the code if I were to use MAF. I don't like GM's way of doing it. Just me.

Not that I think the SD masks are all that better. I hear the $59 is nice, but too bad its 3-bar only.

-- Joe

1989irocz1

I just bought the same supercharger kit. I was wondering where do you put the alternator or what do you do with it. I ordered instructions, but they don't come until Monday.

tpi user

in the paxton installation manual it says to put it in the inlet side be4 the supercharger just like anesthes said to do.paxton comes with a air filter relocation kit that uses a round air filter which installs in drivers side by the headlight area where the charcoal can sits ,ur supposed to relocate charcoal can.