91Z28

Hello all,

Ive been screwing with the fuel injection for quite a while now, and have found it's just not my thing, id like to ditch all the electronic BS, and just go with a simple carb setup, now i have a stealthram fed by a procharger, what would i need for a blown application, about how much should it cost? Thanks guys, see sig.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

For EFI to carb, there's an article linked from the thirdgen.org homepage.

For Procharger, the Power Adder forum is more appropriate than the Carburetor forum.

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

EFI to carb is one of the easiest swaps out there:

1) Sell your car to someone who enjoys tuning fuel injection and is willing to spend the time and patience to make it run right.

2) Buy a car with an antique old carb on it, and enjoy running stone-age technology while the rest of us enjoy the future.




(sorry, nothing personal, I just hate seeing good EFI cars hacked up into dinosaurs.)

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

If you were carbed already, stay carbed. If you have all that nice FI stuff stick with it. I had TPI and went to carb but that was cuz I couldn't afford to upgrade the TPI at the time. Now I kinda wish I had stuck with it. But oh well. Thats another story.

Just save some $ and take it to a dyno tunning shop and have them take care of it. Pay the bill and DRIVE.

Kevin91Z: I love your cars, I will def have stuff as nice as yours but for now I have what I have, sux to have a carb, but you gotta admit, it is easy to tune with a screwdriver and thats it. haha.

Hows your car these days?

91Bird305

x2

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

I would hardly call a well tuned carb a dinosaur. Super chevy did a side by side with a well tuned carb and FI and the FI only got 1 MPG better. And they both made the same power. The only great thing about FI is that you can run great right off the bat when it is cold outside.

In my eyes, for a motor like mine. Going to FI would cost about $3000+, while a new tunned carb will run me $500. I want EFI as much as the next guy, but I am certainly don't think it is x6 better than a carb.

Next motor will be FI no questions asked. But thats cuz I i will be out of school and have the $ to pay for an LSX.

91Bird305

link please.

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

I don't have a link, I have the magazine at my house. I am at work now. Maybe it will come up if you search their site. I am 100% positive they did the test though. Might have been carf craft or chevy high performance. I used to read all three.

It was amazing how little anything changed.

It was on a crate GM 350. I know that. I will do some google searches I guess. If I have free time at work today. If you don't believe me thats fine. I know what I read.

If you want, spend some time searching too.

You can go call up a really experienced dyno place and they will tell you, you are not going to really make any more power with FI, you will just run a little smoother and get a little better MPG. I know, I have asked around myself. No shop says it is a good idea of you are just looking for more power. Only do it if you are going to use the car in the cold and stuff and need it for work, also if you have the $$$. if you don't, don't stress and tune your carb well.



I will go look around for a bit...

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

Well after searching for 10 minutes all I can find right now is an article from popular hotrodding. And they are in the pockets of the holley guys. So it is very biased. They even have a holley guy on site doing all the tunning. Granted it is a nice system, but for 3 grand it better be. They also complain aobut changing jets and say it would take them 1/2 a day to sway a carb and jets. lol. C'mon how in the hole can they sound.

Anyways, I will flip though my old magazines to see what I can find if I remember to look tonight.

(Just bought a 40" LCD, hard to find time to do anything these days, haha.)

91Bird305

Yeah, I looked and couldn't find anything on it either.

All I know is that FI is a lot more accurate then carb when it comes to tuning. Changing jets in a carb is a lot less accurate then adjusting fuel curves on a laptop. So I don't see how switching to FI would not gain you any extra power unless you didn't know how to tune FI.

Even the top fuel dragsters and funny car guys run a fuel injection system and I am sure they want every bit of power and tuning out of their motors as possible. Especially on the fly.

Carbs are great for just slapping on something throwing some jets on and going. But if you want accurate tuning and every bit of power out of that motor + driveability and gas mileage, FI is the way to go.

although
I will say, that if it came down to certain FI system (TBI, Cross-fire), then I would switch to a better FI system or if I was on a super budget and just wanted to get the car running right, then I would go with carb. Only exception though. TBI and Crossfire are junk. Hell, TPI isn't anything to get excitied about either. A lot better FI systems out there.

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

Right, thats pretty much what I was trying to say.

Too bad it is crazy $$$.

Can't compete when it comes to price though. A $300 carb can get ya going. After I spent more than 6 grand on my forged SBC I just couldn't justify having another 3 into it for induction.

I think the cheapest way to make BIG power now is piecing togeather an LS something from a tuck or SUV and swapping heads and cam till you finally have something that looks kinda like an LS7.

Then add some forced induction.

91Bird305

Yup.

nelapse

iTrader: (17)

Nascar engines are carbureted.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question588.htm

Guess they drive 200 mph dinosaurs...

91Bird305

Do you know why they are carbureted?

nelapse

iTrader: (17)

Because they like going fast? Like everyone else with a carb?

91Bird305

Good try but no.

Because NASCAR hasn't come up with a confident way to regulate fuel injection like they can with the carburetion. But, they are working on it and NASCAR will eventually switch to fuel injection. Not to mention FI would be more cost effective for teams. But they do plan on switching to FI as soon as they figure out the best way to regulate it like they do with the carb setups.

nelapse

iTrader: (17)

If it was so cost effective it would have been done decades ago. Good try but no.

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

I agree. With the amount of $ in NASCAR they can get a team of engineers on any issue they need worked out and fixed in no time.

I don't buy that they can't regulate FI. What do you even mean by that?

I do agree that someday they will swap over, but I think it will have to do with other reasons, not tunning. Maybe emissions or something, but now tunning.


PS- I still would like to go to FI when I get older and can spend more $ on induction.

91Bird305

Not if it couldn't be regulated as well as they can with carbs. Please read what I write.

91Bird305

The same way they regulate carbs, they would need to do with FI. NASCAR will switch to FI but they are not confident enough in that they will be able to monitor and keep everything balanced with FI on their cars as they do with carbs. That is the issue. Not that FI won't produce the same horsepower.


Not to mention NASCAR likes to hold onto the past a lot. The fact that the "car of tomorrow" still has a carb on it is funny. I mean, they still use leaded gas for crying out loud. Although, they have started phasing in unleaded fuel...finally.

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

No question that it will make the same power. No quesions there. those guys have plenty of $ to tune whatever they want. I still don't buy that they "can't figure it out" though, when it comes to regulating. If they really wanted to, they would in a season. Also it is true that they hold onto the past quite a bit.

But back to the topic of this thread. I say if you are tight on $, slap a carb on there and drive. If you have $ and time and then some more $. Go for FI. I would love to just get a crate motor that has FI on it that needs no tunning. I read that LSXs have a system like that. Super chevy looked into it. Built a mild LSX and tossed this stand alone sytem that you can buy on it and it pumped out over 500 HP easy. Now thats cool. Making your own chips and maps and all that is just a little too much for me right now... And thats coming from someone who likes a challange.

Maybe I will seem more into it when there is more $ to be spent. haha. ( I think that sums it up pretty well for me)

86projectZ

I just like havin a carb more than I did fuel injection. Repairs are more simple, usually quicker and less expensive. Of course, if you don't need repair then no worries right? But boy I love feelin those secondaries open-but not so much the mpg...

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

NASCAR and NHRA Pro Stock still use carbs because that's what the rules say. And because carbs are great for race cars. But they arent so great for street cars.

NASCAR switched completely to unleaded fuel starting with the Feb 2007 Cup race at California Speedway. The Trucks and Busch changed last year.

91Bird305

Yeah, I thought they were going to start phasing it in.

vette killer

ive been told with 4 barrel carb you can save gas if drivin nice but if not which it wont if your me you will get worse gas mileage

91greenbird

iTrader: (4)

crossfire, tbi, tpi < holley carb if you have the money sure aftermarket efi is great for someone that likes computer tuning but for someone like myself who loves to tune with a screwdriver and fine tune with jets and turning the distrubuter carbs are great. Who cares about fuel economy when it comes to racing its all about power not who saves the most on gas. on a street car my tpi was way better then my carb in the winter in the summer theres no difference except now my car can pull to 5500rpms. carbs arent dinasaurs there upgraded every year and new products come out to make them better. For a race car id take a dominator over steatlhram or super ram anyday

chevymec

iTrader: (5)

I dumped my TPI and put on a carb. IMO it was a good decision. The increase in power and the power band was great. My car isnt my DD so Im not worried about MPG. I can see where a DD would benifit from EFI but it takes a good bit of cash to get a good performing setup and tuning equipment v/s a carb setup and a box of jets.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

That only applies to drag

Just about EVERY other type of racing requires atleast a half sense of fuel economy

Comparing modern racing carbs to older FI setups like CFI, TBI, and TPI is kind of silly

gary sanders

Lets just say IM old school,give me a carb,I have made good power and run great times at the track with FI,just like carbs better.They both are good!!!

Drac0nic

You already have the EFI stuff by your sig, you will definitely be short on injector to get the most out of that setup. I'd be looking at a Megasquirt II seutp with 72 lb/hr or 83lb/hr injectors to give some head room (you'll need drivers) or a 1227749 ECU converted to use the low-Z injectors. At the very least I'd do Siemens high-Z 55lb/hr injectors. Using a carb is your perspective, but at the same time you have an intake there that has the capacity to make a lot of power, and should be well matched for your combo.

If you go carb, I'd check www.theturboforums.com They have info on modding a Holley type carb for blow through. If you get a pre built blow through carb they get pretty spendy I think CSU charged in the 800 dollar vicinity for one of their blow through carbs. You'll also need a distributor and something like a 6BTM to ditch the computer controlled carb unless you just run locked timing which is probably ok for a very limited street use car. Your MPG and performance out of full throttle will suffer with locked timing but that's life.

Oh yeah, and ditch the 255 either a dual pump or an Magnafuel/A1000 no matter which route you go, that's not enough pump for that motor and you're just begging for issues. -8 feed -6 return for EFI and -10 feed -8 return for carb with a return style regulator like the 13102 Aeromotive. You built a race motor, buck up and build a race fuel system for it before you end up picking up the pieces.

PS:In retrospect after a bit of searching I'd use these.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

The 749 ECM has the low-Z driver circuits for low-Z injectors. It just needs to be wired properly. For 8 injectors you need some new MOSFETS and resistors.

You can use a dual pump setup with the second pump turned on under boost.