Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

I've been searching alot, and have found no definative answer....is ANYONE on this board running a Weiand 177 blower in a Thirdgen Camaro, and if so what size cowl hood are you running?? Any pics would be highly appreciated.

-And please don't tell me how easily a 177 fit under the stock hood of your truck or Suburban, because that won't help me at all since I'd like to put one on a thirdgen. So Thirdgen only please. And I already know the 142/144 blowers will fit with a 2 1/2" cowl by doing a search. I want to run a bigger roots blower than that without cutting a hole in any hoods.

Thanks in advance for your responses!

SpitotRs305

i have seen it under the Daytona hood...or turbo hood which ever we are calling it this hour

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Thanks, but no offense - I'm looking for something more definative than that. I don't want to guess at how big of a cowl hood to get, and end up wrong. - that can be expensive. I'm looking for details...and pics would be great.

-If someone is running one of these, or knows someone that's running one on a thirdgen and doesn't mind me asking questions please post up!

trumps2000

iTrader: (2)

Sorry to ask a question when you're looking for answer, but where did you hear the 142/144 fits under a 2.5" cowl hood? I'm just curious because I'm going to be installing one on my Z. Already have the 4" cowl though.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Well, I came across that doing searches. there's a post saying this guy fit a 144 Weiand under a 2 1/2" cowl with a drop base air cleaner. But you're right, still looking for someone running a 177.......

Damon

That was probably me who posted about fitting it under a 2.5" hood BUT that was on my Malibu, which ahs at least 1" more hood cleararance than a 3rd gen F-body to begin with. On a 3rd gen I have always recommended a 4" hood just to clear a 142 blower (and have any reasonable sized air cleaner on top). A 177 has the carb pad about 2" higher than a 142 so you can do the math on that one.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Damon, I know you're well versed on how to install a Weiand 142 on a SBC, and how well they fit under a Malibu cowl hood..... - but I'm not using that as part of any "math equation" to determine how a 177 will fit under a Camaro cowl hood because It's like comparing apples-and-oranges to me.

I'm sure trumps2000 can do a few searches since quite a few people on this board are using a Weiand 142 on a Camaro. From what I can determine anyway, you really don't need a 4" cowl to fit a Weiand 142 under a Camaro hood....a 3" should be more than enough, but I don't have a Malibu to compare that to.

You know more than most others Damon, since you've been kind enough to respond to previous posts of mine, that I've been banging my head against the wall here recently trying to determine what size hood would REALLY be required to run a Weiand 177 on a Camaro by someone that's actually tried it. THAT'S what I'm asking here...

I've done searches and read about others that said they were going to try a 177 on their thirdgen, but not one person had written back to tell everyone else how it went. Those are the people I want to hear from.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/powe...adder-but.html

Damon

On my Malibu with a 2.5" cowl hood the 142 BARELY fits even with lots of air cleaner games. Can't fit a wing-nut, have to use a nylock hex nut to retaint the air cleaner and the front edge of the air cleaner lid rubs ever so slightly on the underside of the hood under load- enough to eventually rub the paint off the bottom of the hood. Yeah, REAL tight.

This is with a QJet still sporting the stock choke tower. A Holley with a choke would need probably a little more height. A Holley without a choke tower would probably need a little less. But if I had started with a 4" hood in the first place it would fit easily on the Bu without all the air cleaner games.

Like I said, I KNOW a Camaro has at least 1" less hood clearance to start with than my Malibu becuase I've owned both at the same time. So, if you think you can fit it under a 3" hood on a 3rd gen you're definitely going to be tight. And tight is not good- you want a GOOD amount of room for the air cleaner or you're choking airflow into the top of the carb. Weird stumbles and bogs can happen if you try to get the lid of the air cleaner down too close to the carb's venturis. This is not what you want when the whole purpose of the blower is to get more air into the motor.

If you INSIST on using a hood shorter than 4" then buy the 144 version of the blower (not the 142 version I am using) as it sits the carb pad about 1/2" lower than the 142.

DON'T think using a K&N Xtreme filter lid is going to work, either. It makes things worse in tight clearance situations since the filter pleats stick down on the inside by 3/4", further choking off the free height over the carb. Been there, done that.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

put on the blower then measure yourself how high it sits and figure out which cowl hood you need. There should be a dimension listing somewhere online for how tall the blower is then add in carb height and filter height, there ya go. For instance you could cross reference the height of a super victor intake, solid motor mounts, 1" carb spacer and a 750 holley along with flat base 3" filter and it rubs on my 4" cowl hood just slightly.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Damon - You have a good point about airflow, and my measurements didn't take at least a 1" taller element into the equation.....I ran a drop base AC with a 2" element...hardly enough for a 177......Maybe that's why I haven't heard from anyone running a 177 yet?

xpndbl3 - I suppose you're right, I should just put the blower on it and measure it from there, but I need a rough guesstimate so I can figure out how much blower I can run and be - well - semi-stealthy.... I think the 177 woulda been idea, but looks like you'd need a 5" cowl and it would still be close....

I've been meaning to ask you, how much does that 4" cowl hood of yours obstruct your view on the street? Just curious...

trumps2000

iTrader: (2)

Conduzed, Have you checked out Holley's supercharger tech pdf? Its chock full of specs and info.

At the end it lists the dimensions of all their blowers. I just compared the A and B specs to that of the manifold I'm running to get an idea of how much higher the carb'll sit. The 142 is ~3.5" taller than the performer manifold I currently have on there, but then I'm giong to run a 144, so mine should sit 3/4" lower than that. With a 177 I think it'll raise it another 2" to 5.5" taller than a peformer manifold.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

trumps2000 - Yes, I printed all those specs out, and that's what I've been basing all this on. Don't forget you need to add carb height PLUS a decent air cleaner to dimension "B".

If you add a MINIMUM of 6 1/4" for the carb/filter, it would seem a 177 *might* barely fit under a 5" cowl. After I recalculated, I figure about 11" from the top of the block to the underside of a stock hood. That's about the same size from the top of the block to the underside of the hood on a 177 blower - without a carb/filter. If you add that to it, even a 5" cowl would be tight.

It would seem only the Weiand 142,144 or Magna Charger MP 122 will fit under a 4" cowl. - Not sure about Whipple since I can't find a carb version with their brand, but they're kinda pricey compared to others anyway.

So for a thirdgen, as Damon says - the 144 is THE best fitting - hands down. But I'm really looking close at the MP 122 since it's a modified screw type, -more efficient than the Weiand straight rotor style and seems to be built a little better. Weiand has slightly more CFM's, but I have a feeling that a more efficient 122 might actually get more cool boost into the engine, and that's where the power is, but it's hard to tell if that makes up for Weiand's 144 CFM's. Which would you guys get?

I want the best and most reliable performer...that'll fit under a 4" cowl.

Damon

The 122, 142, 144 and 177 designations on the little blowers denotes how many cubic inches of air they displace in 1 revolution (theoretically), not their CFM. A big 6-71 blower moves 411ci, for comparison purposes. CFM is a bit meaningless since you're talking about a positive displacement air pump, not a centrifugal compressor. Just realize that the smaller the blower the better it is making boost in the lower RPMs but the faster it's efficiency drops off as RPMs rise.

The Magancharger does move air much more efficiently than the straight rotors of the Holley/Weiand blowers- it's efficiency doesn't "drop off a cliff" like the older designs do in the upper RPMs. More than makes up for it's slight deficit in displacement. Wish I had one on my motor.

F-BIRD'88

If you have or had a SBC with a known manifold/carb/aircleaner in your car you can calculate how much higher your carb+aircleaner will be once the manifold is swapped for a 177+blower manifold.
EG: if you had a Performer RPM manifold before, then the center of the air cleaner will be 5.3" higher with the 177blower + manifold under it.

What about having the carb (blower scoop) poke out thru the hood? Or partially thru a cowl hood.

F-BIRD'88

How about using a 3" cowl with this "Shotgun" style blower scoop just poking thru the hood enough to catch the air.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Thx for the responses -
F-Bird'88 - I have been calculating like a maniac trying to figure out what I can stuff UNDER a cowl hood with these blowers. I'm trying to avoid having anything sticking out above the hood if I can. Did you see the price on those scoops you posted?? One of them from Jeg's lists for 550 bucks!!

I do have a approximate measuring point using my old setup, and I know it's accurate within a 1/2".
-I figured from the top of the block (china wall) to the underside of a stock Camaro hood is 11.3"

-My current setup used a drop base air cleaner with a 2" filter element and it measures about 5.3" tall (from bottom of carb to top of air cleaner nut) Of course I'll need a 3" element with a blower at a minimum, so I'll add another inch to allow a 3" element, so I figure 6.3"

-So, using those numbers, I've arrived at the following measurements for all the blowers:


**Stock Hood clearance = 11.3"
**w/3" cowl =14.3
**w/4" cowl =15.3
**w/5" cowl = 16.3**


Weiand 177 = 11" tall, (-.3" underhood w/o carb) plus 6.3 for carb and A/C = 6.0" above hood (total = 17.3")

Mag MP 122 = 9.3" tall, (2" underhood w/o carb) plus 6.3 for carb and A/C = 4.3 above stock hood (total = 15.6")

Weiand 144 = 8.3" tall ( 3" underhood w/o carb) plus 6.3" for carb and A/C = 3.3 above stock hood (total = 14.6")

Weiand 142 = 9.0" tall (2.3" underhood w/o carb) plus 6.3" for carb and A/C = 4.3" above stock hood (total = 15.3")

-So in summary, it appears as if:
The 144 might fit under a 3" cowl hood
The 142 might fit under a 4" cowl hood
The MP 122 *might* squeeze under a 4" cowl
The 177 won't even fit under a 5" cowl

-Hope that makes sense to everyone.....I know the measurements aren't perfect, but I think they're close. So you can see why I've been pretty indecisive about which blower to get.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

i don't even notice I'm driving around with the 4" cowl anymore, but it does block a little bit of the view to the right.

Damon

I can't argue with those calculations and your conclusions since they line up pretty much exactly with what I said, above.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

OK, I forgot I'd need a thicker air filter element than a 2" so I pretty much admitted I was wrong in that post Damon...but thanks for rubbing it in.

I'm hoping to stick a 122 Magna Charger under a 4" cowl. It's gonna be close, but we'll see.

I'm going off rough measurements from my n/a setup, in which I tried to install a 3" thick air cleaner element but the hood would barely not close. I'll wait to take measurements after it's all together before I order a hood.

-Still doing research into what kind of fuel system upgrades I need to do to support it. I know I'm currently running the stock system all the way to the mech pump. It does have a small recirc line off the mech pump, which is weird....

Oh , thx xpndbl3 - So the vision isn't too bad with a 4" cowl huh? I was contemplating getting a 5" Jongbloed hood....I wish they made them 4" tall.

Damon

Sorry, couldn't resist. Just glad you did the measurements BEFORE shutting the hood down on top of it the first time! Many people won't bother doing the research. I think it's a GOOD thing that you actually checked and didn't take somebody's word for it over the internet (not even mine!).

Shutting the hood the first time is NOT when you want to find out your combo won't fit underneat it!

And running without a hood on is not legal in many states. I once got pulled over 2 blocks from my house when I was taking a maiden voyage with a new motor and got too excited to bother bolting the hood back on. The local cops all know me and I was cordially invited to drive IMMEDIATELY back to my garage and put the hood back on or pay a ticket or two (the fact that I wasn't carrying my license in my work coveralls, and didn't have an up-to-date insurance card in the car probably didn't help). If the cop hadn't liked the look of my new motor, clearly visible with no hood, and been semi-interested in fast cars I doubt he would have extended even that modest courtesy to me.

tilstad

Would a aircleaner of this or similar style help perhaps?



Says' it's "dropped 1,5"....." Although not excactly sure what measurmeant they are talking about then.

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

tilstad

Or how about something like this, amd then a remote mounted filter somewhere.

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

Horn0816

I know this is a super old thread, but I just wanted to help the next brother out that did a search. This is a 177 in a video I found on youtube.

F-BIRD'88

This GM Corvette "L-88" air cleaner is lower than most all aftermarket typical drop base air cleaners like the Moroso or same.

It sits down low around the carb.

14"x 3" element You must remove the holley choke tower and shorten the vent tubes. Edelbrock AFB and Qjet are ok with the choke.

The top is the same, so you just need the base.

Allows a performer rpm manifold to fit under a stock thirdgen hood, with ease.

F-BIRD'88

I'm not liking the visuals of that carb and scoop hanging in the air.

This blower scoop huggs down around the carb and hides the carb
from sight. Much more visually appealing IMHO.
http://www.alsblowers.com/sc500-177.html

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Wow! I wish I would've known about that scoop when I was building mine. Still would be a cop magnet with it on, but I think with a small 2" cowl with that sticking out, it'd look sweet!.

Horn0816

Now isn't that SNAZZY?!?! Don't the fuel injected with 6-71's look like that? I wonder if there's some way to turn it around and still use the butterflys for cowl induction purposes ???

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Wow!! I just realized I started this post years ago!!

I've had the blower on the car for a few years now. A 4" cowl was definately needed (With the Magnacarger). I'd still think a 177 Weiand MIGHT fit under a 4" cowl hood, but they (Weiand) don't have measurements on thier website like Magnuson did.

I use the lowest drop base air cleaner I could find and a 3" thick filter element, and it still BARELY a fit. The wing nut on top of the air cleaner had actually put a small dent in the inner panel underneath my hood. The entire cleaner sits inside the cowl which is good so it breathes cool air. I could make it better by using some type of drop base pan?? - and seal so no warm air from the engine compartment gets inside the cowl.

EDIT: Whenever you're looking at these dropped base A/C's , Some are made for 4150 style Holleys (has indentions for the fuel bowls) -and others fit Rochester/Edelbrocks

My Camaro has always been an ongoing project that has no end. Interior is the next big project I guess....but It's hard to find a really decent entire interior for these cars.

It draws plenty of attention, screams when I get on it, and sucks gas like no tomorrow. It's a beast for sure. Who knows what I'll do with it down the road...Blown LSX transplant??