j88l98irocz

iTrader: (4)

ATI procharged iroc, It has the p600b aftercooled 13lbs of boost to a stock 305 long block with runners,ported plentium,52mmtb, headers and exhaust made 390hp and 420 tq to the wheels on a stock long block 305. That engine in the car has a rod knock that I noticed yesterday. I am shooting for 600 hp to the wheels I would like to know if I get some good flowing heads, a custom ground blower cam and a accel super ram or holley stealth ram will a brand new 383 short block be reliable at around 15lbs of boost? I have the supporting fuel mods.

SpitotRs305

it is going to be close but reliable... probably not

j88l98irocz

iTrader: (4)

what about 8.5-1 compression is that safer?
what kind of bottom end do I need to run 15-20lbs of boost safely?

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

In a nut shell. 9.4 isnt the best for 15psi but doable as long as everything else falls into place.

Get a biger cc head will help drop the comp. some. The right cam will help bleed off some cyl. psi also.

TUNING WILL BE THE KEY !!And Good GAS. You could also run Alky injection.

I know this is a turbo motor in this thread but good reading about fi.
if a junk yard motor can hold upto 20+ psi. Im sure a well built anything can also.

http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/in...?topic=61219.0

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Lots of V6 guys are running 20+psig of boost from a turbo on 9.6 compression.

As TPI said tuning is the key.

I have even seen 30+psig on cast pistons with a good tune. He ran into problems when he built a custom dual 4" core intercooler and wadded a piston up like tinfoil.

SpitotRs305

but is a j/y beast like that reliable enough to run daily?

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

He said "brand new short block" in post #1...

iamtheantirice

Chevy High Performance magazine has an article you may find useful in your situation. the June 2007 issue has a break down on what to look for when supercharging (or turbo-charging? cant' remember). in the article it says that boost is not the figure to look at. cfm is what you're after. take one setup with 7psi, change the heads, and all of a sudden you've got 4 psi. same cfm though. dunno if this helps.

-Chris

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Actually you bring up a good point. If you imagine the boost being like water from a hose. PSI is how hard the water is comming out of the end and CFM is how much water is comming out. If you increase the size of the hose, the same ammount of water would come out, but with less pressure.

j88l98irocz

iTrader: (4)

thanks for your imput guys

j88l98irocz

iTrader: (4)

so what should my engine combo be If I want to run 20psi of boost and have the car be reliable ? and make 600 rwh thanks

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Stop worrying about how much boost PSI you have. Boost PSI is only for people that like to brag about numbers and it shows that they don't understand what a forced induction unit does. Worry about shaft speed and launching the wheels off of the turbo.

No one can predict what you are asking. You can get rough estimates. Pick a target RWHP and go from there. In your case for 600 RWHP, use a stock GM 350 ci "smog" engine with a 212* to 220* @ .050 cam along with a decent intake (not a cast iron GM unit). Put some T4s or a decent single on it and push between 14 to 22 PSI through it. You know how to tune an engine at this level? If not, watch it go BOOM.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

I'm so glad I have somebody on the same frequency as me .

j88l98irocz

iTrader: (4)

I am a newbie to superchargers thats why I am asking all these ?'s I got screwed on the 88 procharged t-5 Iroc in the classifieds. The p600b on the car grinds horribly so I think it needs a rebuild, also the engine has a rod knock. I am trying to learn more about supercharging I did not mean to agervate anyone. my goal is 600 to the wheels.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Questions are good. Sometimes I am a little bit to the point.

Take your time and research. Forced Induction is good because you don't need a lot of go fast expensive parts. You simply push the air through junk parts to make HP. 600 RWHP is quite a bit more HP than the average beginner is used to. I don't know much about SCs but I don't remember seeing that the 600b would flow enough air for your goals.

You didn't buy that car, did you? I don't remember but I thought those p600b need a rebuild every 20K miles or so. I could be all wrong. I think someone was talking about rebuilding them around here a few months ago with some links on the subject.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

You didn't .

Junk, I'm understanding a S/C works just like a turbo with the exception of boost is 0 at idle and climbs in relation to RPM (hopefully max boost at max RPM). I could be wrong, though.

j88l98irocz

iTrader: (4)

maybe I will just replace the motor and sell the car

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

WHY?

j88l98irocz

iTrader: (4)

I running out of money real fast and im beginnig to realize with my funds the 600 rwh goal is far from reachable

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

How much of the work do you do yourself?

j88l98irocz

iTrader: (4)

I try to do what I can if you look at the post in the classifieds under 88 procharged t-5 iroc hard top you can see some of the pics of what I have done to the car. Im a little short from buying the 383 the only thing I have is a new goodwrench 350 truck motor laying around. but I do not know that much about tuning. I have installed engines and transmissions b4 though

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

With a little work, you can put the 400 crank in the 350 if it's "just laying around". I love making things work, especially something that makes a challenge.

Do you have the S/C also?

j88l98irocz

iTrader: (4)

I am using the p600b procharger running 13lbs of boost aftercooled how much horsepower I get out of the 350 with a 400 crank, good heads, roller rockers and a comp blower cam?

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

exellent advice above. Where in PA are you? Im on the Ohio/PA boarder(44438). Might be close enough to give ya a hand.

j88l98irocz

iTrader: (4)

I really appreciate that man, I think Im too far away from you, I just mapquested from my zip to yours and it said 5 hour and 24 min drive

rob_m

From what I've read, a 383 with good heads, cam etc. should not have trouble making big #'s. I don't know the airflow of the p600b. A rule of thumb I use to evaluate HP with a turbo is 10 HP for every lb/minute air you feed it. If your supercharger will deliver say 68lbs/minute air at 13 PSI before your redline, then it will support about 680 FWHP. I'd think that would be well over 600 RWHP.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

I am all for using what you have. You have all the goodies so why not just rebuild them. 400 RWHP is a lot for the street. Try that for a while before shooting for 600 RWHP. The web is a great source for info., try to pick up as much as you can before thinking of selling it.

j88l98irocz

iTrader: (4)

I have had quite a few high horsepower cars so it is not like im a 16 year old getting into a c6 z06. I had a 2000 camaro SS t56 patroit heads, thunder racing cam, 4.10's, mt et streets ect. that dynoed 444 to the wheels and ran 11.60's at 117mph so I know what 400 whp feels like I would like to beat my buddys 1990 rustang 5.0 with a 347 stroker and a turbo he is making like 550 to the wheels running high tens off of the trans brake he says all Irocs are slow, I would like to prove him wrong.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

I hear ya. You had a quick car and want some more. If you fix the stuff you have and put a little squirt on top of it you can get a better ET than him.

Turbo setups are great on anything.....even Mustangs. Check out TurboedTPI's setup. He is running high 10's on a 62mm turbo.

j88l98irocz

iTrader: (4)

I tried to pm him he didnt respond though.

j88l98irocz

iTrader: (4)

how about 8.5-1 compression ?

rob_m

Deja vu? Didn't you ask that earlier Of course, the less compression you run the more boost/timing you can safely run, and your top end #'s will increase. But it seemed like you were locked in to a 9.4:1 engine.

Please don't take offense but you're waffling around too much. Just decide what you want and what you can do and go for it. Peak #'s seem important to you, so if you can go ahead an drop the CR and quit worrying so much! Your planned combo has great potential. Just my 2c- peace.......

j88l98irocz

iTrader: (4)

my bad I meant 8-1

Batass

If you have money issues, you shouldnt be trying to build a certain hp car. You should be trying to figure out how many hp you can build with x amount of money.

I just built a blow through 383. I live near lancaster-harrisburg. How much money can you spend on this engine?

That will determine forged parts or not and in the end, reliable power you have. The 9-bolt sucks and wont hold up with good tires. The t-56 will be ok, but plan on spending about 2 grand for a used one, plus kit, and good driveshaft.

You may have more fun selling the supercharger, and buying some better parts......

hasty

I have messed with a lot of turbo buick stuff in the past and currently have a 1989 Turbo Trans am. 15 lbs of boost will spark knock on pump gas with that much compression unless you put an alcohol injection kit on, or ran race gas in it.

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

you guys seem to know what you are talking about when it comes to turbos and S/C. I make 350RWHP with a simple dyno tune to my setup. If I added a S/C, would I greatly reduce gas milage?

I have around 9.5-1 dynamic, and like 10.5-1 static compression. If I got an appropriet cam, what kinda S/C and at what PSI would I have to run to make 500 RWHP? I am only 150 away, so I feel like its not a huge deal, Oh I have all forged parts, a moser 12 bolt,a T-56, and a chromoly DS.

This will be the only question I ask in this thread... Don't mean to hijack, you guys just seem to know what you are talking about,.


ps- They are trickflow heads, 750 holly DP, edel. Vic. Jr., 385. Thanks again.

Batass

I'm sure you've heard it a million times, it all depends how you drive. A supercharger increases the efficiency of the engine, and I have heard of increasing your mileage but I believe thats on cars that dont get pushed hard. Of course if you run it hard, it will get worse. The cool thing about a supercharger is, you don't need a great breathing motor to make great power. So you can have a lot of bottom-end to cruise with. You've got the sixth gear. Greatly is relative but I would say no. I know ppl with good motors and superchargers that still get 25 mpg highway. Fuel injected though. I take it your talking about a centrifugal and not a roots?

I think 500rwhp would be easily attainable with your setup with 8 psi. Trans might not hold it though.....whats your cam, I'm guessing long duration and a good bit of overlap with those compression numbers....

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

Batass: You couldn't be more right about my cam, it is long duration and a lot of overlap. It is a great cam for a N/A motor that gets reved up. But if I was going to S/C I know I would need a S/C cam. Now to the tranny. I know the tranny would probably crap out, but thats OK, I will have enough $ this summer to build it up real nice so I never have to worry again. The tranny is my weakest link, and I wouldn't mind making it bulletproof. To comment on the way i drive, I tend to BABY the car 90% of the time, and then every now and then, here or there... really lay into her. But to tell the truth I may only do that 3 times a week. If I drive it 6 out of 7 days.

So I would say I don't push her hard. If this thread convinces me to get a S/C, you guys will soon be seeing a thread about me wanting cam spec recomendations.

Batass

Well you seem pretty creative and mechanical, why not make your own turbo system? I kind wish I would've. A rear mount system looks soooo easy! Turbos are cheap. Yea yea you lose a little cfm mounting in the rear, but its forced induction.....you're not losing anything.

j88l98irocz

iTrader: (4)

I am having a 350 4blt main 30 over forged eagle 383 crank h beam rods keith black pistons 8-1 compression ratio. I am Using Patroit 210cc heads, roller rockers comp custom ground blower cam toped off with a ported super ram. I am going to use the accel DFI. I have a t56 out of a 96z28

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

A turbo uses wasted energy, and a S/C robs energy to make more energy .

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

not totally true. Your motor still has to push that turbo impeller out of the way. You better believe that your exhaust would rather not spool up a turbo. They both rob, one does less. The tubo robs less, but thats why there is lag.

j88l98irocz

iTrader: (4)

I dont believe an absolutely perfect power adder exists

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

True, but when you weight the efficiency of each...

j88l98irocz

iTrader: (4)

I believe they both work well and Im a fan of any type of forced induction. I allready had a few supercharged cars. I would like to try turbocharged power now

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

Is it just me, or do they seem more complicated? (turbos)

Seems like guys running paxtons or whatever, kinda bolt them on and go. While tubo guys have header issues, what size to get T-6.. blah blah blah... I have no idea about what those T-#s mean. Then there are the BOVs and spool times and stuff like that.

Maybe it is not really like that, but it just seems that way form the majority of the power adder threads I read. Thats all.

My personal preference is either one, as long as you can make it shut up. I HATE HATE HATE, the pppsssshhhheewwww that turbos make, and I equally hate the zzzzzwwwuuuzzzzz, of a centrifugal spinning.

Sometimes guys can make them REAL quite, and still fast. Now that is fu....ing bad ***.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

A turbo is no more complicated than a S/C. Sure a roots blower back in the day bolted on like a manifold, but what about a centrifical? A centrifical works much like a turbo, except a belt is driving the impeller instead of exhaust gasses. A S/C is just as difficult to select properly as a turbo, the numbers are just different, and they both have compressor maps to follow. Either one needs to be tuned for more fuel, so they are equal in that department. Turbos are cheaper if you can fabricate, also.

I love the sound of forced induction .

Batass

Its true they are no more complicated, just that they put it together in a kit for you. The only sound I dont like is the sound of a loud centrifugal at idle. Mine gets on my nerves. Everywhere else but idle, its awesome.

How the blowoff valve and wastegate are setup will determine the noise. I rarely heard the blowoff valve on my vortech.
Have you ever heard an 1100hp twin turbo car at the track??? Oh boy. Gets me more excited than any track girl...........maybe a problem...

Anyway, if your interested just read up on turbos. They are easy to figure out. Just another simple air pump. Air entering and air exiting. If you can figure out the bends for a custom exhaust, you can do this.

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

I hear ya. Maybe I will look into it in a couple years. Right now I am gonna play with N20. My new motor only has 1100 miles so I am not going to rip it appart just yet. Maybe in a few years I will build a TT or something like that.

What I REALLY hate is that some people just put 2 turbos under their hood so they can say, oh look at me I have TT, car only makes 300 HP, but...ummm, I have 2 turbos. I hate that so much. It makes turbos seem like some little cliche thing. Not to mention all the import guy running little tinny ones with HUGE BOVs that they rev in the city at red lights, just to hear that friggin noise. I hate it so much.

You never hear of someone adding a S/C just to be cool, they ONLY add them to go fast. And finally, the general public is so stupid. They make the word turbo into a Fast and Furious line. These people with IQs in the single digits tossing turbos on anything with wheels.

But anyways, I am just ranting now. Maybe a remote mounted one would be more stealth/quieter.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Boston, huh? I was born in Brockton .

BTT, you don't have to tear anything apart to put a turbo on. Some re-routing of exhaust, then ADDING the cold side, with or without an intercooler.