Procharger vs. Turbo
#51
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there are few members on this board that drive their 10 second cars all motor on the street. And they are fewer members in the 9`s with all motor sbc that drive on the street. Just because u have a motor car that does 10`s u cant have A/C????? Turbos help with emmision??? How many ppl u see with a custom turbo setup keep their cats or their A/C for that matter??
Im not turbo bashing because i myself own a turbo vehicle. With engine technology where it`s at why do u need force induction to go 10`s, 9`s, and even the 8`s. No need to spool the turbos.
#52
there are few members on this board that drive their 10 second cars all motor on the street. And they are fewer members in the 9`s with all motor sbc that drive on the street. Just because u have a motor car that does 10`s u cant have A/C????? Turbos help with emmision??? How many ppl u see with a custom turbo setup keep their cats or their A/C for that matter??
Im not turbo bashing because i myself own a turbo vehicle. With engine technology where it`s at why do u need force induction to go 10`s, 9`s, and even the 8`s. No need to spool the turbos.
Im not turbo bashing because i myself own a turbo vehicle. With engine technology where it`s at why do u need force induction to go 10`s, 9`s, and even the 8`s. No need to spool the turbos.
#53
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Car: 1982 Trans-Am
Engine: 355 w/ ported 416s
Transmission: T10, hurst shifter
Axle/Gears: 10 bolt, true-trac, 3.73
High duration cams generally produce more emissions, with a turbo you can get the same power with a smaller cam = Better for emissions.
Hey, be my guest, rattle off any members who street drive their 10.99 and quicker NA SBC cars, i'd love to hear about them. I don't think i've seen any on here.
Baddest305's shafiroff (sp?) 434 goes under 10 on spray, but I'm pretty sure it's not street legal. (and spray = non NA technically)
TurboTPI (I think?) has a turbo SBC which I think is street legal, and goes 10's.
IHI has a wild 383 that goes 10.9 ish I think. I don't think he drives it on the street anymore (and it's getting a new motor now...)
My personal definition of a "street car" (since it's such a loosely based term) means you can drive it through a crowded parking lot and not stall it, then gas up at a gas station, and drive it to church, get groceries, and go home. I mean, if you're mixing your own race gas, and it can't drive at low speeds, just because it drives on rural pavement doesn't make it a street car.
I think any SBC capable of running sub 10.5 or so is a pretty wild combo. Maybe some cammy LS1 strokers or something, which i'll give you- it's a big jump in technology.
But your generic SBC1, with normal induction, I just can't see it being street driven and going 9's, I think that's an exaggeration. Let me know any examples, and i'll eat my words (and religiously copy that combo )
Hey, be my guest, rattle off any members who street drive their 10.99 and quicker NA SBC cars, i'd love to hear about them. I don't think i've seen any on here.
Baddest305's shafiroff (sp?) 434 goes under 10 on spray, but I'm pretty sure it's not street legal. (and spray = non NA technically)
TurboTPI (I think?) has a turbo SBC which I think is street legal, and goes 10's.
IHI has a wild 383 that goes 10.9 ish I think. I don't think he drives it on the street anymore (and it's getting a new motor now...)
My personal definition of a "street car" (since it's such a loosely based term) means you can drive it through a crowded parking lot and not stall it, then gas up at a gas station, and drive it to church, get groceries, and go home. I mean, if you're mixing your own race gas, and it can't drive at low speeds, just because it drives on rural pavement doesn't make it a street car.
I think any SBC capable of running sub 10.5 or so is a pretty wild combo. Maybe some cammy LS1 strokers or something, which i'll give you- it's a big jump in technology.
But your generic SBC1, with normal induction, I just can't see it being street driven and going 9's, I think that's an exaggeration. Let me know any examples, and i'll eat my words (and religiously copy that combo )
#54
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Car: 1992 B4C 1LE
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please read this:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/powe...o-350-ls1.html
it started as a response here, but decided it needed a post of it own.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/powe...o-350-ls1.html
it started as a response here, but decided it needed a post of it own.
#55
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I think any SBC capable of running sub 10.5 or so is a pretty wild combo. Maybe some cammy LS1 strokers or something, which i'll give you- it's a big jump in technology.
But your generic SBC1, with normal induction, I just can't see it being street driven and going 9's, I think that's an exaggeration. Let me know any examples, and i'll eat my words (and religiously copy that combo )
But your generic SBC1, with normal induction, I just can't see it being street driven and going 9's, I think that's an exaggeration. Let me know any examples, and i'll eat my words (and religiously copy that combo )
my 426 sbc is not done yet , it should run in the 9`s all motor and i will drive it on the street. My turbo car idles with 10 inches of vacuum has valve lifts in the low .700 range yet i drive it on the street and to work in stop and go traffic. There is even wilder engine combos that are street driven.Research and you`ll find out.otherwise your just preaching magazine philosophy.
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He has ordered a good 5.3 truck engine delivered from a local source complete with accessories and those cast iron header/manifolds. His intention is to use the known strength of the truck iron block along with a light overbore to match the bore of the 5.7 LS1. He will be using Eagle 6.125" h-beams, a stock crank, and mahle forged pistons. For heads he will be using 6.0 LQ9 caddy heads ported by him with nicer valves. His cam a unit right from the catalog in the 240/236 .600" range. The turbo a PT-106mm F-trim 1.06 A/R, the IC a 1800hp air to water replacing the passenger seat. Bigstuff3 will be the management.
#57
There was a gentleman on turbomustangs running a .040 over 350 with a 268H cam. Keep in mind the heads were 1.72 intake smoggers, and the pistons badger cast. I bet he pulled quite a bit of vacuum since it got over 20 mpg on the highway, with an LTR intake that didn't even have as much as a set of aftermarket runners on it. Oh yeah, forgot to mention it was a single digit car.
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Car: 1982 Trans-Am
Engine: 355 w/ ported 416s
Transmission: T10, hurst shifter
Axle/Gears: 10 bolt, true-trac, 3.73
LSx's are a jump in technology. I don't need to argue that, I figure that's pretty much an accepted fact. There's a reason the heads flow a lot more, and they typically make gobs more power. Just because it has pushrods doesn't mean it's not a newer technology piece.
Tell me more about your turbo car, .700" lift is pretty big, i'd like to hear about that combo and the results.
268H in a 350, going single digits? Uhh, what's the secret? My xe268h in my 350 would be hard pressed to go basement 13's. Is this a turbo car then or..?
Tell me more about your turbo car, .700" lift is pretty big, i'd like to hear about that combo and the results.
268H in a 350, going single digits? Uhh, what's the secret? My xe268h in my 350 would be hard pressed to go basement 13's. Is this a turbo car then or..?
#59
Twin GN turbos on a 350 with 991 heads 1.72/1.5 valves, flat top cast pistons, 22 PSI and 25 on spray. (75 shot) Race gas tune mind you, but it still ran into the 9.6es on that setup, should do even better with the new combo (487X heads, different cam, aftermarket TPI parts and most importantly a set of TE-44s that won't be 100% maxed out like the GN turbos) Thread here hoping to see it in Car Craft one of these years.
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LSx's are a jump in technology. I don't need to argue that, I figure that's pretty much an accepted fact. There's a reason the heads flow a lot more, and they typically make gobs more power. Just because it has pushrods doesn't mean it's not a newer technology piece.
Tell me more about your turbo car, .700" lift is pretty big, i'd like to hear about that combo and the results.
Tell me more about your turbo car, .700" lift is pretty big, i'd like to hear about that combo and the results.
LSx heads flow more than say sb2.2, GB2000, 18*,15*???????
how many lsx motors make 1100+ hp all motor???
My turbo car is a GN stage 2 twin 60-1 turbos, it made according to Duttweiler 1100 hp back in 1995 . Not bad for a v6 .
#61
That's a stout motor, no wonder you were pulling 10 inches......1100hp on probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 275 CID.
#63
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Car: 91 RS
Engine: LT1
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personaly i'm parcial to Prochargers, I know i guy in the tampa area who is running a procharger on his Cobra at over 30lbs of boost and nitrous.... now thats a evil car.
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Car: 91 Camaro Vert
Engine: 02 LS1, HX40
Transmission: 2002 LS1 M6
i was hoping to reply to this with a timeslip of my friends totally streetable, still has AC, completely street car without question...... but he didnt run a 10.9.... he only got to 11.0s...
maybe if it wasnt fuggin 77* at the track, he would have gotten the slip, but still 11.0s with 28mpg and no compromise in streetability yet, isnt too bad....
(oh yea, and its a ls1....)
maybe if it wasnt fuggin 77* at the track, he would have gotten the slip, but still 11.0s with 28mpg and no compromise in streetability yet, isnt too bad....
(oh yea, and its a ls1....)
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Engine: 3xx ci tubo
Transmission: 4L60E & 4L80E
Engine technology can be argued all kinds of ways. In the end, it comes down to displacement, VE, and the range of where VE is high.
Newer tech. tends to keep the VE higher over a larger RPM. That equates to more area under the curve or more HP over the RPM range.
A well tuned N/A engine will get 100% VE or slightly greater over a narrow RPM range. A boosted engine can do over 100% VE with a smaller cam and therefore is more streetable.
What does all that mean? A boost engine can acheive a quicker ET with less RPM induced stress and a smaller better MPG cam. You have to rev the N/A higher or go to more cubic inches to equal the boost HP. Either way, there are plenty of 10 second N/A engines. Compared to a boost engine they either are larger, rev higher, and if they rev end up with a big cam that isn't as street friendly as the boost cam.
Is one better than the other.......NO. It just depends on what kind of deal you get on a given combination usually. MPG comes into play also. Big cams tend to give worse low RPM street driving MPG. If the drivetrain is tuned properly then the MPG can be decent with big cams.
Newer tech. tends to keep the VE higher over a larger RPM. That equates to more area under the curve or more HP over the RPM range.
A well tuned N/A engine will get 100% VE or slightly greater over a narrow RPM range. A boosted engine can do over 100% VE with a smaller cam and therefore is more streetable.
What does all that mean? A boost engine can acheive a quicker ET with less RPM induced stress and a smaller better MPG cam. You have to rev the N/A higher or go to more cubic inches to equal the boost HP. Either way, there are plenty of 10 second N/A engines. Compared to a boost engine they either are larger, rev higher, and if they rev end up with a big cam that isn't as street friendly as the boost cam.
Is one better than the other.......NO. It just depends on what kind of deal you get on a given combination usually. MPG comes into play also. Big cams tend to give worse low RPM street driving MPG. If the drivetrain is tuned properly then the MPG can be decent with big cams.
#67
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Car: 91 Camaro Vert
Engine: 02 LS1, HX40
Transmission: 2002 LS1 M6
yea...
i didnt even think about that..
yeat its totally N/A... no gas. no boost.
cam lope at idle.... beats you in the chest with the exhaust note during the burnout... (stock GM catback, with an electric cutout... quiet when closed, but LOUD when open)
the real diff is in the little things hes done... for example he has a BMR extreme rear swaybar... but instead of the loud clunking rodend endlinks, we figured out a custom poly bushing solution.
so he launches straight.... but we honestly forget that he has the bar back there... its silent.
anyway, thats offtopic.
point was, he makes the power, with total streetability and reliability... its a engine thread..
anyone who cant wrap their head around the idea of advancements and better technology are merely showing their lack of knowledge and understanding of the subject.
i didnt even think about that..
yeat its totally N/A... no gas. no boost.
cam lope at idle.... beats you in the chest with the exhaust note during the burnout... (stock GM catback, with an electric cutout... quiet when closed, but LOUD when open)
the real diff is in the little things hes done... for example he has a BMR extreme rear swaybar... but instead of the loud clunking rodend endlinks, we figured out a custom poly bushing solution.
so he launches straight.... but we honestly forget that he has the bar back there... its silent.
anyway, thats offtopic.
point was, he makes the power, with total streetability and reliability... its a engine thread..
anyone who cant wrap their head around the idea of advancements and better technology are merely showing their lack of knowledge and understanding of the subject.
#68
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Car: 1984 Corvette
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Transmission: 4L80E with TCI T-Com
anyway, thats offtopic.
point was, he makes the power, with total streetability and reliability... its a engine thread..
anyone who cant wrap their head around the idea of advancements and better technology are merely showing their lack of knowledge and understanding of the subject.
point was, he makes the power, with total streetability and reliability... its a engine thread..
anyone who cant wrap their head around the idea of advancements and better technology are merely showing their lack of knowledge and understanding of the subject.
#69
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Engine: 3xx ci tubo
Transmission: 4L60E & 4L80E
I agree with JoBy. Put a turbo on that thing.
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Car: 92 Formula 350
Engine: L98 with a T-76
Transmission: ArtCarr 700-R4
Axle/Gears: Bone stock 10bolt and 3.23's
Turbo ;
- Restrict exhaust gas
- Develop LOT of heat under the hood as well for the air charge
- Need to spool the turbo to have the power (may need a trans brake, depand what you wanna do)
Supercharger ;
- No exhaust restriction, keep tuned exhaust
- Less heat
- More stable power
- No need to Rev to 5000rpm at the start line to spool it.
- Less part, less exhaust tubing, heat, fabrication
- Cooler air charge
- near 80% efficienty, try this whit a turbo...
By each 1 deg. less on air temp you get a 5% incrase in power.
I have a F1 on my car currently to 10-15 psi on pump gas and love it.
Will goes to 25 psi this year
You cant go wrong whit a procharger, select it carfully btw.
It still cost around 5000$ to 6500$ for you to setup it correctly
- Restrict exhaust gas
- Develop LOT of heat under the hood as well for the air charge
- Need to spool the turbo to have the power (may need a trans brake, depand what you wanna do)
Supercharger ;
- No exhaust restriction, keep tuned exhaust
- Less heat
- More stable power
- No need to Rev to 5000rpm at the start line to spool it.
- Less part, less exhaust tubing, heat, fabrication
- Cooler air charge
- near 80% efficienty, try this whit a turbo...
By each 1 deg. less on air temp you get a 5% incrase in power.
I have a F1 on my car currently to 10-15 psi on pump gas and love it.
Will goes to 25 psi this year
You cant go wrong whit a procharger, select it carfully btw.
It still cost around 5000$ to 6500$ for you to setup it correctly
#71
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Car: 92 Formula 350
Engine: L98 with a T-76
Transmission: ArtCarr 700-R4
Axle/Gears: Bone stock 10bolt and 3.23's
LS1 jump in technology????still has pushrod similar to SBC except prone to lifting the heads .break piston ringland, cracking the block.
my 426 sbc is not done yet , it should run in the 9`s all motor and i will drive it on the street. My turbo car idles with 10 inches of vacuum has valve lifts in the low .700 range yet i drive it on the street and to work in stop and go traffic. There is even wilder engine combos that are street driven.Research and you`ll find out.otherwise your just preaching magazine philosophy.
my 426 sbc is not done yet , it should run in the 9`s all motor and i will drive it on the street. My turbo car idles with 10 inches of vacuum has valve lifts in the low .700 range yet i drive it on the street and to work in stop and go traffic. There is even wilder engine combos that are street driven.Research and you`ll find out.otherwise your just preaching magazine philosophy.
#72
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Car: 92 Formula 350
Engine: L98 with a T-76
Transmission: ArtCarr 700-R4
Axle/Gears: Bone stock 10bolt and 3.23's
High duration cams generally produce more emissions, with a turbo you can get the same power with a smaller cam = Better for emissions.
Hey, be my guest, rattle off any members who street drive their 10.99 and quicker NA SBC cars, i'd love to hear about them. I don't think i've seen any on here.
Baddest305's shafiroff (sp?) 434 goes under 10 on spray, but I'm pretty sure it's not street legal. (and spray = non NA technically)
TurboTPI (I think?) has a turbo SBC which I think is street legal, and goes 10's.
IHI has a wild 383 that goes 10.9 ish I think. I don't think he drives it on the street anymore (and it's getting a new motor now...)
My personal definition of a "street car" (since it's such a loosely based term) means you can drive it through a crowded parking lot and not stall it, then gas up at a gas station, and drive it to church, get groceries, and go home. I mean, if you're mixing your own race gas, and it can't drive at low speeds, just because it drives on rural pavement doesn't make it a street car.
I think any SBC capable of running sub 10.5 or so is a pretty wild combo. Maybe some cammy LS1 strokers or something, which i'll give you- it's a big jump in technology.
But your generic SBC1, with normal induction, I just can't see it being street driven and going 9's, I think that's an exaggeration. Let me know any examples, and i'll eat my words (and religiously copy that combo )
Hey, be my guest, rattle off any members who street drive their 10.99 and quicker NA SBC cars, i'd love to hear about them. I don't think i've seen any on here.
Baddest305's shafiroff (sp?) 434 goes under 10 on spray, but I'm pretty sure it's not street legal. (and spray = non NA technically)
TurboTPI (I think?) has a turbo SBC which I think is street legal, and goes 10's.
IHI has a wild 383 that goes 10.9 ish I think. I don't think he drives it on the street anymore (and it's getting a new motor now...)
My personal definition of a "street car" (since it's such a loosely based term) means you can drive it through a crowded parking lot and not stall it, then gas up at a gas station, and drive it to church, get groceries, and go home. I mean, if you're mixing your own race gas, and it can't drive at low speeds, just because it drives on rural pavement doesn't make it a street car.
I think any SBC capable of running sub 10.5 or so is a pretty wild combo. Maybe some cammy LS1 strokers or something, which i'll give you- it's a big jump in technology.
But your generic SBC1, with normal induction, I just can't see it being street driven and going 9's, I think that's an exaggeration. Let me know any examples, and i'll eat my words (and religiously copy that combo )
Last edited by TurboedTPI; 01-18-2007 at 08:04 PM.
#73
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Car: Supercharged Nitrous T/A
Engine: Motown 410SBC
Transmission: 4L80 - Compushift / Custom billet torq
Axle/Gears: 12b Moser 33/spl. /373 posi
Let see,
Thats may be why you can see so mutch Procharger in the top...
How many turbo you see in the winner line on 1/4 !
Most winner car use Procharger.. You can see there is almost no turbo...
You want a winner receipe !
- Good block !
- Procharger intercoolled (at less F1) !
- LIttle nitrous shot to rev up quicly instantly !
There's no turbo to match this !
i'm Going 20+ boost this year heyha !
Does i say i run 91 octane gas whit 15psi, in traffic in summer time running whit a temp of 180-185deg!
Thats may be why you can see so mutch Procharger in the top...
How many turbo you see in the winner line on 1/4 !
Most winner car use Procharger.. You can see there is almost no turbo...
You want a winner receipe !
- Good block !
- Procharger intercoolled (at less F1) !
- LIttle nitrous shot to rev up quicly instantly !
There's no turbo to match this !
i'm Going 20+ boost this year heyha !
Does i say i run 91 octane gas whit 15psi, in traffic in summer time running whit a temp of 180-185deg!
Your so wrong its unbelievable. Turbo cars will develope full boost way faster than any procharger will. Once a turbo spools its at full boost the whole time unlike a procharger that's boost is RPM related. Your boost raises exactly with rpm @ wot. So your currently running 15 lbs of boost but only at high RPM. Im at full boost the whole time, no matter what RPM @ wot. And yes a turbo will produce a higher air temp but if you have a good intercooler then it dosent matter. And i spent have of what a procharger kit (the way i want it) would have cost.
Last edited by x007; 01-18-2007 at 08:12 PM.
#74
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Car: 92 Formula 350
Engine: L98 with a T-76
Transmission: ArtCarr 700-R4
Axle/Gears: Bone stock 10bolt and 3.23's
Let see,
Thats may be why you can see so mutch Procharger in the top...
How many turbo you see in the winner line on 1/4 !
Most winner car use Procharger.. You can see there is almost no turbo...
You want a winner receipe !
- Good block !
- Procharger intercoolled (at less F1) !
- LIttle nitrous shot to rev up quicly instantly !
There's no turbo to match this !
i'm Going 20+ boost this year heyha !
Thats may be why you can see so mutch Procharger in the top...
How many turbo you see in the winner line on 1/4 !
Most winner car use Procharger.. You can see there is almost no turbo...
You want a winner receipe !
- Good block !
- Procharger intercoolled (at less F1) !
- LIttle nitrous shot to rev up quicly instantly !
There's no turbo to match this !
i'm Going 20+ boost this year heyha !
#75
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Car: Supercharged Nitrous T/A
Engine: Motown 410SBC
Transmission: 4L80 - Compushift / Custom billet torq
Axle/Gears: 12b Moser 33/spl. /373 posi
Your going to do 10s pass this year...
i'm going for a 8sec pass !
#76
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Engine: SBC
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#77
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Car: 1984 Trans Am
Engine: broken 385sbc
Transmission: G-Force rebuilt T-5
Axle/Gears: Currie 9" Ford 4.30:1
i can try explain this a little.. for the record, i have no experience of any power adders.. but i have some knowledge.. you see prochargers winning more often because it is more consistent with its power.. turbos on the other hand are sort of unpredictable.. if you let off a bit, the turbo will not necessarily make full boost and may spool down and take more time to spool back up and produce that full boost.. prochargers are right there with the engine speed and all it takes is for you to step on the pedal to get whatever boost for that rpm.. i'm not rooting for prochargers or turbos as i would take either one if i had a choice.. but for a daily driver i would want a turbo, for drag car, supercharger..
#78
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My car is 100% street legal. Even has an emissions legal cam(not even designed for forced induction). Thanks Sonix, i agree with you. And now that i solved an ignition problem (weak coil, causing miss in high RPM) i was having before, i should be mid-low 10's next season. I drive it to the track (60miles one way) run 10's, and drive home, getting 23-25 mpg. (all on stock wheels and drag radials)
Do u run a cat??? because i dont.
#79
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Car: 92 Formula 350
Engine: L98 with a T-76
Transmission: ArtCarr 700-R4
Axle/Gears: Bone stock 10bolt and 3.23's
----------
hey x007, go on Precision Turbo's website. You'll see some winning cars.
Last edited by TurboedTPI; 01-18-2007 at 09:17 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
#80
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Car: 87 Buick GN
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I bet you'll go faster with a turbo.
But seriously, lots of guys at that level have switched from superchargers to turbos because they got tired of throwing belts, or breaking crank snouts. And they ran faster to boot.
But seriously, lots of guys at that level have switched from superchargers to turbos because they got tired of throwing belts, or breaking crank snouts. And they ran faster to boot.
#81
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Car: 1992 B4C 1LE
Engine: Proaction 412, Accel singleplane
Transmission: built 700R4 w/custom converter
Axle/Gears: stock w/later 4th gen torsen pos
no more prone to lifting heads than any small block
breaking piston ringlands on stock pistons, his are not
cracking aluminum block, his is iron
any more apples to pineapples comparisons you would like to get all defensive about?
Could it handle the full abusive force of a PT-106? no I doubt many aftermarket blocks could either.
As to the crank, we have already discussed this. likely he will use an aftermarket piece. If he doesn't, it won't matter this is more of a technology test, than a full effort, atleast in this version of this setup. there are already others over at ls1tech running decent single digits on similar turbo setups, with the same truck manifolds even!
Last edited by B4Ctom1; 01-19-2007 at 12:46 PM.
#82
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Car: 1986 Saleen mustang.
Engine: Turbo 5.0.
Transmission: T5.
Axle/Gears: 3.55
I will toss my two cents in.
Warning all of my boosted experience is with 5.0 stangs.
My little 302 with a small single turbo (T44, the smallest of the T4 turbos) set up makes 430/520 @ the wheels with a whopping 8psi and no intercooler.
Combo.
Stock used 80k block
Motorsport E cam (emissions legal little guy not much bigger tha stock)
Iron motorsport GT40 heads. (not much better than stock)
Performer intake
77mm maf
36lb squirters.
My best friend has the exact same year Saleen as me and the same combo the only difference is he has prted E7s, 20k mile long block and a intercooled procharger.
He is only making 370/380 @ 12psi intercooled.
My peak torque comes in at 3500 rpm while his is @ 4700. My peak HP comes in at 4100 while his is at 5000.
Basicly I just read a whole bunch false info from some people about turbos.
I have a full 8psi of boost at 3500 rpm while the procharger needs almost 5000rpm to make full boost.
Now the pros of the procharger. Easy install any monkey can do it, you can use your stock exhaust, and it will pass emissions as my turbo will not because you must remove the smog pump for the wastegate to fit and obviously the cats because of the downpipe etc.
http://www.coloradostangs.com/galler...0/60Dyno_2.jpg
http://www.coloradostangs.com/galler...cs_037-med.jpg
http://www.coloradostangs.com/galler...o_pics_025.jpg
I prefer the turbo for max power and the cool factor.
However I really like the Prochargers and cant knock on them either.
Personal preference. And anyone that thinks one is better than the other really needs to do some research on the pros and cons of each set up.
later
kyle
Warning all of my boosted experience is with 5.0 stangs.
My little 302 with a small single turbo (T44, the smallest of the T4 turbos) set up makes 430/520 @ the wheels with a whopping 8psi and no intercooler.
Combo.
Stock used 80k block
Motorsport E cam (emissions legal little guy not much bigger tha stock)
Iron motorsport GT40 heads. (not much better than stock)
Performer intake
77mm maf
36lb squirters.
My best friend has the exact same year Saleen as me and the same combo the only difference is he has prted E7s, 20k mile long block and a intercooled procharger.
He is only making 370/380 @ 12psi intercooled.
My peak torque comes in at 3500 rpm while his is @ 4700. My peak HP comes in at 4100 while his is at 5000.
Basicly I just read a whole bunch false info from some people about turbos.
I have a full 8psi of boost at 3500 rpm while the procharger needs almost 5000rpm to make full boost.
Now the pros of the procharger. Easy install any monkey can do it, you can use your stock exhaust, and it will pass emissions as my turbo will not because you must remove the smog pump for the wastegate to fit and obviously the cats because of the downpipe etc.
http://www.coloradostangs.com/galler...0/60Dyno_2.jpg
http://www.coloradostangs.com/galler...cs_037-med.jpg
http://www.coloradostangs.com/galler...o_pics_025.jpg
I prefer the turbo for max power and the cool factor.
However I really like the Prochargers and cant knock on them either.
Personal preference. And anyone that thinks one is better than the other really needs to do some research on the pros and cons of each set up.
later
kyle
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yes with stock LS1 heads flowing stock what my AFR cnc heads do, with better air movement, yeah I would call that technology.
no more prone to lifting heads than any small block
breaking piston ringlands on stock pistons, his are not
cracking aluminum block, his is iron
any more apples to pineapples comparisons you would like to get all defensive about?
!
no more prone to lifting heads than any small block
breaking piston ringlands on stock pistons, his are not
cracking aluminum block, his is iron
any more apples to pineapples comparisons you would like to get all defensive about?
!
LS1 pushing water unheard of
Do u know anything about SBC cylinderheads like SB2.2, gb2000 , little chiefs etc. ????? and how do they compare to LSx cylinderheads???
how many LSx make 1100+ hp on motor????
There are some SBC making more than that on motor.
Could it handle the full abusive force of a PT-106? no I doubt many aftermarket blocks could either.
I also doubt u have any knowledge or experience of aftermarket blocks.
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Car: 1992 B4C 1LE
Engine: Proaction 412, Accel singleplane
Transmission: built 700R4 w/custom converter
Axle/Gears: stock w/later 4th gen torsen pos
I know that you can't find me any other stock head that flows this kind of CFM from a small block, especially one with this kind of air motion.
I would like to remind you that the engine he took out of his project was a nascar pontiac headed nitrous 385 small block chevy running 9's (at 5800 feet) and a real drive around street car. That motor as I stated will go on to live with an F2 abusing it for the rest of its life. I have no doubt that the 106mm/LS1/5.7/ironblock project he moved "up" to will easily outpower that even with less cubes, factory manifolds, and stock'ish heads.
Of these engines you will be hard pressed to find me an example of, there are none that are using a stock head or even a stock arrangement, and none that are remotely drivable.
I can tell you that small block ford blocks start stress fracturing at 500 hp, small block chevys start stress fracturing at around 600 hp, stock LS1's are closer to after market blocks such as the GM bowtie, dart little M, and world motown which start stress fracturing in the 800-1000 hp range. I would like to add as a side note, oddly the new warhawk, and similar blocks based on LS1 architecture have a much higher threshold.
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it has no less than the Ford small blocks which I have helped to build in this power level.
Oh yes, please, bring up the superheads.
I know that you can't find me any other stock head that flows this kind of CFM from a small block, especially one with this kind of air motion.
I know that you can't find me any other stock head that flows this kind of CFM from a small block, especially one with this kind of air motion.
U ever heard of the super stock class??
Most ppl swap their heads for better performance heads.And SBC side has the advantage here. Since u like to compare ls1 15* heads to SBC 23* heads. Why dont we compare a LSx head to a GM 15* head Or SBC All Pro head with a 23* stock valve angle.
I doubt you can find me an example of any, enough to say no, there aren't.
http://www.shafiroff.com/pro/472_950.asp
over 1000 hp
http://www.furiousracing.com/SBC-12/480.html
they are more example but that should suffice.
u learn something everyday.
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Car: 1982 Trans-Am
Engine: 355 w/ ported 416s
Transmission: T10, hurst shifter
Axle/Gears: 10 bolt, true-trac, 3.73
Ok, this is getting rediculous now. A 480 cube small block that costs $50,000 ?? Geez. That would be completely undriveable, it runs race fuel only....
Alright, why don't we agree that small blocks can make 1000HP, but it's a really stupid idea for a street car, which I *think* was the idea behind this thread in the first place... (actually it was about prochargers and turbos)...
Anyway, moving on here...
Alright, why don't we agree that small blocks can make 1000HP, but it's a really stupid idea for a street car, which I *think* was the idea behind this thread in the first place... (actually it was about prochargers and turbos)...
Anyway, moving on here...
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Car: 1986 Saleen mustang.
Engine: Turbo 5.0.
Transmission: T5.
Axle/Gears: 3.55
Big tired big money 8 sec cars do nothing for me. Stock looking street cars that are built on small budgets that can drive to the track and run the number and then drive home are the ****. I really like it when guys show up with DRs on stock wheels and then send the big money cars home on trailers. SWEET.
kyle
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Car: 1984 Trans Am
Engine: broken 385sbc
Transmission: G-Force rebuilt T-5
Axle/Gears: Currie 9" Ford 4.30:1
i know what you mean.. we had a streetcar shootout on maui this past august and the fastest "streetcar" was a 10.300 second dodge dart.. had full roll cage, pro-built motor and trans, nitrous, top-dollar everything in there.. and a real-street driven camaro with only intake, headers, exhaust and ET streets, took him out in the first round.. and with a stick i might add.. and the funny part is that the dart went home on a trailer.. haha.. i cant really say much for myself because i was out the second round.. by a low budjet thirdgen with a 406 auto..
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Car: Supercharged Nitrous T/A
Engine: Motown 410SBC
Transmission: 4L80 - Compushift / Custom billet torq
Axle/Gears: 12b Moser 33/spl. /373 posi
I dont like very mutch to use a trans brake, thats hard for almost any part of the engine.
I never trow a belt, i have bigger than normal crank pulley whit dual keys, but i agree, most ppl use 6 or 8 rib setup, for hi power engine its not enough, you need a 12rib belt or cog belt. Your not going to run 15psi on a 400 block very long whit a 6 or 8rib belt thats for sure.
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i know what you mean.. we had a streetcar shootout on maui this past august and the fastest "streetcar" was a 10.300 second dodge dart.. had full roll cage, pro-built motor and trans, nitrous, top-dollar everything in there.. and a real-street driven camaro with only intake, headers, exhaust and ET streets, took him out in the first round.. and with a stick i might add.. and the funny part is that the dart went home on a trailer.. haha.. i cant really say much for myself because i was out the second round.. by a low budjet thirdgen with a 406 auto..
#95
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Big tired big money 8 sec cars do nothing for me. Stock looking street cars that are built on small budgets that can drive to the track and run the number and then drive home are the ****. I really like it when guys show up with DRs on stock wheels and then send the big money cars home on trailers. SWEET.
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Car: 92 Formula 350
Engine: L98 with a T-76
Transmission: ArtCarr 700-R4
Axle/Gears: Bone stock 10bolt and 3.23's
----------
Agreed. anyone can toss money at a car or engine builder. It takes real skill to fab and design your parts and to push stock parts to the limit.
Big tired big money 8 sec cars do nothing for me. Stock looking street cars that are built on small budgets that can drive to the track and run the number and then drive home are the ****. I really like it when guys show up with DRs on stock wheels and then send the big money cars home on trailers. SWEET.
kyle
Big tired big money 8 sec cars do nothing for me. Stock looking street cars that are built on small budgets that can drive to the track and run the number and then drive home are the ****. I really like it when guys show up with DRs on stock wheels and then send the big money cars home on trailers. SWEET.
kyle
Last edited by TurboedTPI; 01-21-2007 at 02:56 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Car: 1992 B4C 1LE
Engine: Proaction 412, Accel singleplane
Transmission: built 700R4 w/custom converter
Axle/Gears: stock w/later 4th gen torsen pos
So I will draw you stick figures, the LS1 and Ford are perimetered by 4 shared bolt holes as opposed to the 5 of a small block Chevy. But just as we don't all run out and build dodges or big blocks with their 6 bolt perimeters, I have no need for the "crutch" of extra bolts to hold my cylinder pressure in. I use tried and true methods as devised by our ford small block brethren. So the number of bolts, or the common follies found on the internet of people "lifting" (why does that term have "get er done" written all over it?) head gaskets is moot to me.
U ever heard of the super stock class??
Most ppl swap their heads for better performance heads.And SBC side has the advantage here. Since u like to compare ls1 15* heads to SBC 23* heads. Why dont we compare a LSx head to a GM 15* head Or SBC All Pro head with a 23* stock valve angle.
Most ppl swap their heads for better performance heads.And SBC side has the advantage here. Since u like to compare ls1 15* heads to SBC 23* heads. Why dont we compare a LSx head to a GM 15* head Or SBC All Pro head with a 23* stock valve angle.
not quite 1000 hp
http://www.shafiroff.com/pro/472_950.asp
over 1000 hp
http://www.furiousracing.com/SBC-12/480.html
they are more example but that should suffice.
u learn something everyday.
http://www.shafiroff.com/pro/472_950.asp
over 1000 hp
http://www.furiousracing.com/SBC-12/480.html
they are more example but that should suffice.
u learn something everyday.
Just because my grandfather made obscene hp with race only flatheads, does that mean my father never should have ever made the same kind of power with a streetable SBC? We are in a renaissance, like our forefathers, I won't just jump on any bandwagon, but LS1 is here to stay, it is the future, and it sounds like victory.
Add a huge turbo to a simple LS1 and make 1000? 2000? hp? Some are already. A member here on TGO, Monty, built a 427 SBC twin turbo vette, nice solid engine, two decent turbos, it made around 1200 hp. Basically one of the most well known and documented cars on this board as far as power production and no BS results. Guess what he is building now, I checked in on his site for ***** and giggles, will give you a hint, it isn't a sbc...
I don't want to **** up this thread here anymore with arguements over engines. If you want to sound that bugle, make a new thread and tell us about how much LS1's suck and how great going 10's with a sbc is. I will go there and we can discuss it there.
Here lets talk turbos and prochargers, because I have a couple of small block chevys, oh... and a procharger.
Last edited by B4Ctom1; 01-22-2007 at 12:12 AM.
#98
Just because my grandfather made obscene hp with race only flatheads, does that mean my father never should have ever made the same kind of power with a streetable SBC? We are in a renaissance, like our forefathers, I won't just jump on any bandwagon, but LS1 is here to stay, it is the future, and it sounds like victory.
We are truly in a hot rod renisance at the moment, people are into cars again and wanting to go fast. The new technology allows us to have our cake and eat it to. Between redily availible forced induction, ECM control and modern designs like the LS1 it's cheaper and easier then ever to build a car that makes gobs of power, has great street manners is easy to start regardless of weather and so on.
While I'm in the turbo camp, any power adder is truly a great thing if the engine is built around it (even a stockish engine) and will make it something super fun to drive yet very streetable.
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Car: 1984 Trans Am
Engine: broken 385sbc
Transmission: G-Force rebuilt T-5
Axle/Gears: Currie 9" Ford 4.30:1
Doesnt Hot Rod have a "True Street" class which forces you to drive 30 miles with no adjustments, DOT legal tires, and pump gas? Now THAT is interesting. Any doofus can make a fast race car. But how many can make fast, pump gas friendly car that doesnt constantly need tuning?
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Car: 1984 Camaro
Engine: 350 bored .30 over
Transmission: TCI 700-R4
Axle/Gears: Stock 3.23 i think
Wait Wait...... i wanna see this 600rwhp almost stock L98. I myself dont have a REALLY fast car only 400rwhp which is not stock by anymeans. Personally i think your lying about the horsepower or the engine.
I cant deny the power bla bla bla of turbos but you also cant hide all the benefits of the NEW prochargers. I personally would choose the procharger cause its selfcontained you dont dirty your oil as fast, no new exhaust/custom headers, no wimpy spooling sound or blow off, the sound of the gears are just awesome, much more street respect unless your talking to tuners.
I have friends on both sides of the arguement. I can personally say not one has complained about the prochargers/superchargers or lost a belt. If you know what your doing it wont fling off. But for the turbos i always hear about a broken wastegate, boost control, turbine, exhaust leaks, and so on.
My two cents is a muscle car sound have a supercharger. its like peanut butter and jelly with out the other it just work
And turbos for the four bangers/maybe V6.
I cant deny the power bla bla bla of turbos but you also cant hide all the benefits of the NEW prochargers. I personally would choose the procharger cause its selfcontained you dont dirty your oil as fast, no new exhaust/custom headers, no wimpy spooling sound or blow off, the sound of the gears are just awesome, much more street respect unless your talking to tuners.
I have friends on both sides of the arguement. I can personally say not one has complained about the prochargers/superchargers or lost a belt. If you know what your doing it wont fling off. But for the turbos i always hear about a broken wastegate, boost control, turbine, exhaust leaks, and so on.
My two cents is a muscle car sound have a supercharger. its like peanut butter and jelly with out the other it just work
And turbos for the four bangers/maybe V6.