Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

I welded little "****" on the end of each pipe I did for a turbo 3400 Cavalier last year, larger pipes I put 6 "****", smaller tubes I used 4. Spaced failry evenly, just used the MIG welder to leave a little pool of filler material, to keep the pipe from coming apart. I only had the up pipe from the IC piping to bellows coupler come apart on me, due to forgetting to tighten it, but survived several 6 PSI passes down the street before it popped off.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

No I didn't get it to stop last nite, but I'll get some time in the next few days.

After the first start, I cleaned the oil and welded some more. After the second start, it looked better so I just let it run for a minute to look where exactly it was comming from and the motor started to tap loud, so I shut it off right away (I hope the motor didn't get hurt).

I left it alone after that, will have to get back later. Might even take the pan off so I know the weld is good (and to inspect the bottom end). The weld I made on the bench for the turbo side of the drain line held good, but these an fittings are a pain and had to be tightened a couple of times (I got the compressions to make my own length for the drain, and a pre-fab for the pressure side)

I have been looking at a bead roller that can be used for more than only IC pipes , just have to justify the the $100 to my wife, lol.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

That is great to hear that you have it running. All that hard work will pay off soon with a nice ET. It is very hard to weld the oil pan in the car. The time spent taking it off will probably worth it.

Justify the $100 for the bead roller? It will be worth it if you use it on other stuff later on, but a couple of 1/2" beads on the ends of the pipe will do it. If it was me......take the $100 and have a fun night out. Both of you deserve it after all the hard work you put into that turbo setup.

Imthebriman

iTrader: (1)

LOL..... The setup looks great john....

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Thanx for the compliments ,guys! No cause for celebration just yet, gotta get the oil issue fixed. I'm taking a couple of days away from it. Sometimes, you leave something alone that you are having problems with, you come back later and it will "fall" together. I'm taking the contractors exam on Tue and Wed, then I'm taking Thurs and Fri off from work to finish up things on the car.

Imthebriman

iTrader: (1)

And then when it gets finished..... you come up to moroso and race me.... hahahaha... I can't go until the 16th of may.... think you can go then? Finished gettin' the intake off of the z28 at the junkyard.... gonna port it then throw it on the car. hopefully it gives me a bit more power..... I don't really know what to do... but I will finger it out.

vwdave

Whats wrong with it?

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

His car is his daily driver, so he is getting an intake off another car to port in his spare time and make a quick swap to stay on the road .

Imthebriman

iTrader: (1)

Thanks john for the explanation... So we up for the drag date??? LOL

vwdave

Ahh ok, it sounded like he was having a lack of power issue.

Imthebriman

iTrader: (1)

naw, I just meant that I am not quite sure on how to port the plenum and lower manifold. All the threads on here about porting the intake are quite confusing to me.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

You should start a new thread with pics for the other guys .Get yourself a set of felpro gaskets and start with a file and/or a Dremmel and try to make the ports all lined up. The easiest way is to use some spare bolts and put them through the mani/runners/plenum and through the gasket. Use a sharpie to outline the gasket, and use the Dremmel to get close. Then you just keep checking it with the gasket and filing it until it's perfect. If you think you need to go larger than the gaskets (not everyone does), you can use an exacto knife to trim the gasket to the desired size of the port and do the same thing. The problem with this is you will have to trim every gasket you get from here on out.You might want to consider getting some heads too if they are cheap enough, that way you can port match the entire upper end.

Imthebriman

iTrader: (1)

I would love to get some heads... Priced kinda steep though for good ones. Have you gotten the 'bird runnin yet? Can't wait to see it in person...... and about the thread with pics, sounds good.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Well, after many attempts at getting the oil to stop leaking, I decided to pull the pan =(. I filled it with oil today and it ran fine, but was still leaking. Shut it off and welded some more, but when I tried to restart it wll only kick over and won't catch. Tried putting a little more oil in just in case, but wouldn't start. Possably because it is up on stands and not getting fuel? The needle shows it's full, I'll figure it out after I get the pan back on (almost off at the moment).

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Got the pan off and again, it was a good thing. I noticed a large hole in the top of the y-pipe (probably why it was only getting to zero psi).

On the down side, I noticed some shavings in the pan, but I think it was from cross-threading the return fitting the first time I put it on. The shaving are not magnetic, could they be from the bearings? None of the bearings are spun, just don't know if they are steel?

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

No they are not steel =(. Might just have to take the rod caps off to see what's up...

Imthebriman

iTrader: (1)

man john.... wwhen you think you are getting close something happens..... sigh... don't rush it... take your time... but I don't have to tell you that....

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Ok, lol.

Got the bung welded in the pan properly now, the y-pipe is fixed, found the root of the flakes in my pan (it wasn't the bearings, I drilled into the exhaust mani and didn't check to make sure the intake valves were closed on that side), now just got to bolt the pan and y-pipe back on and bolt the mounts back in.

Next Wed is looking real good for me, Brian, are you ready to see my tail lights at the track, lmao?

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

lol u mean ex valves, time to pull an all nighter so u can get that thing running for a nice sunday cruise

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

My wife would kill me, lol. This Wed is her night out, so I told her I want to go to the track by next Wed. Gonna pull the caps first, just in case I need to replace a bearing or two.

Imthebriman

iTrader: (1)

Next wednesday??? oh you mean the second wednesday..... well that is my old ladies b-day... I don't think it would go over to well.... tomorrow I have to change my u joints.... what a b**ch... oh well.... let me know when you wanna go......

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

ummmm i dont think hes gonna make it

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...-new-post.html

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

You will be changing more than thet if you missed her b-day lol

Minor delay, lol. At least I have experience with this stuff, the turbo fab was new for me.

Just wish I would have followed my gut and took the pan off in the first place, I'm sure the overheat didn't help either (Briman was there when it happened).

Time is a commodity in my house with all the kids, but I can have the top end off in a couple of hours, another couple to pull the crank, rods and pistons, and a good day for re-assembly. I don't have a cherry picker yet, but I might have to sell a couple of things to buy a used motor and cheap picker, that way I could be done in a weekend.

Imthebriman

iTrader: (1)

That looks pretty bad.... Hey dave, I watched some of your videos on youtube.... sick 6 man.... now only if john could get his car to that point... LOL... JK john...

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

I must have missed something. What is wrong with the engine? Pulling it apart?

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

he spun a rod bearing or 2,when he did the first startup the oil return fitting was leaking bad,and he didnt relize the car was low on oil to begin with.he had also over heated the car prety good prior to this so that may have done it in as well.

most ppl dont know this but the rwd 60 motors dont oil the crank and mains first like a sbc, the cam recives its oil first

vwdave

Hey John, do you have experience with building turbo engines?

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Which is part of the reason I'm going to use a genIII block in my next build.

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

im currently working on a fix for this on the earlier blocks, it may be possible to redirect oil to the mains/rods first.weve been experimenting with a spare block i have. if we cant totally reverse the flow were confident we can atleast get additional oil to the mains/rods without starving the topend

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

No, but this wasn't a turbo related issue to say.

Let me explain this again...

The first start with the turbo on,

I was in the car with it on stands. Oil pressure seemed fine, had the lap top hooked up to the wideband o2. Running lean, go to get out of the car and almost bust my skull on the oil on the driveway because I slipped in oil. I reach in and shut it down (slight tapping at this moment).

Clean the welds of oil with an acetone soaked rag, weld some more, add some oil (about 2qts). Start again and hear the tap again, shut down. At this time it was still leaking, so I cleaned the welds once more and tried again. Added oil to the fill line, started the car (no knock or taps, thought I was good) but the oil was still dripping.

Frustrated with the welding under the car, I decide to pull the pan even though it's a PITA, and weld properly on my bench. I succeded in the weld, since I had to take the y-pipe off to get the pan off, welded any holes I saw in that as well. When I got tht pan off, I noticed some dust/chips, etc.

Now I was nervous, I was hoping the tap was a lifter especially because it went away with oil pressure.

Pulled a rod cap (first one) and saw this...







Now I did have an overheat at the track (just as I pulled up to the tree) and ran anyways. Let it cool, added coolant, proceeded to drive home and overheated again after just a few miles, so I called AAA. This turned out to be the water pump (no leaks at the track, but saw it on the way home).

Long story short, iol lines are the first I check next time , and I will pull the pan to make an easy weld on the bench (like my gut told me before). Had I followed my instinct to pull the pan (extra 2 or 3 hrs) I wouldn't be here now.

I can only learn from my mistake and keep chugging...

SpitotRs305

hey i have a Q isnt there supposed to be a notch in the bearing to fit into the notch in the cap? thought that is what helped hold the bearing in place?

SpitotRs305

hey i have a Q isnt there supposed to be a notch in the bearing to fit into the notch in the cap? thought that is what helped hold the bearing in place?

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Take a closer look at the second pic and you will see what is left of the tab, lol.


EDIT: the wierd thing is the bearing(s) spun and landed where thay are supposed to be.

Anybody heard of buying two sets of bearings and using the grooved side for both halves in the engine? Somebody I was talking to today said he has done it in the past, but I took it with a grain of salt.

SpitotRs305

oh yeah i see it now pretty crazy

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Eh?

All sets of rod bearings I've bought have had tabs or tangs on both halves of the bearing.

ttypecamaro

iTrader: (2)

most likely talking about main bearings.

vwdave

What does that have to do with the price of rice in china? You have talked to me before and you know that I am not dumb.

What ring gaps are you going to run in the engine?

Also, I wouldnt feel 100% comfortable running a engine that has once spun a bearing. They do have a added tendency of doing it again and again. I would buy another block.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

This is a stock engine, I have only started collecting parts for my first turbo-specific build, but until I get the MegaSquirt in and running, I will do whatever to get by until I get the hang of turbo tuning. I would rather blow a jy motor then spend my time building something I know might not make it .

I found another motor for cheap money (in an S-10, a running 2.8) and will likely throw that in for now.

Also you mean if the mains spun, they are likely to do it again, or any bearing? I could understand if they were oversized, but I found new crank/rods/pistons to put in my current motor (actually I could use them in the 2.8 to stroke it to 3.1). So if the block isn't damaged and I would use the stock size journals, you think I would have a problem?

What gaps should I be looking for? I know some of the 60* turbo guys have been talking about the main seals leaking, is this because of large stock ring gap on a N/A motor?

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

lots pf them have that issue due to worn out motors/seals, on factory pistions a larger top ring gap will save the upper ringland,the known weakpoint of a factory v6 piston.

on a fresh build the top ring shoudl have a slightly larger then stock gap,though if u have a full forged piston/or aftermarket hyper u could get away with a tighter gap.

i run a slightly loose top gap with factory spec 2nd ring.
though i run a tight piston to bore clearance, with the coated skirt hyperectic pistons

if u end up rebuilding what u have spend the extra cash for a set of moly or plasmamoly rings. perfect circle offers them as do a few other companys

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

firstfirebird,
How is the build going? Did you drop the S-10 2.8 in the car?

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Nope. I got a used rotating assembly and am waiting for it to be delivered. Got it for $45+shipping because money has been tight lately over here.

On a positive note, though, I was able to sell a few things and to some trading and have managed to put together a ('99) 3400 top end and am in the process of working out a deal for a 3.4. If all goes well, I'll get it for $150+shipping short-block with a fresh re-build. He's having trouble selling it to the 4th gen crowd; they all swap to the 90* v6 because the 60* bolt pattern on the bell housing.

My origional plan was to put the top end on my 3.1, but after the bearing issue decided that a 3.4 would be a better option for more reasons than the extra cubes. By using a 3.4 with the 3400 upper, I won't have to fabricate a EDIS to work with the 3.1 (3.4 is EDIS from the factory) is the biggest factor.

I still need to get a hold of some pistons with larger dishes, the 3.4 has an 8cc dish that won't jive too good with 27cc chambers causing a 13.x:1 CR...

I can just see this will be a never ending project, and here I thought I was "just put a turbo on" lol.

Here is a link to the comparison of the iron and aluminum heads...
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/4...re-3400-a.html

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Somehow my projects always end up with way more parts than I need. Strange how when you are out looking for what you actually need, you end up finding other "good deals" that you can't pass up.

I tend to run what ever is easiest / laying around. I probably would put in the $45 rotating assembly and call it good. Then build up the other engine when I feel like it. You must be wanting to take a break from the build by now. Summer makes it tough in terms of working on junk because there are so many other better things to do. Ha ha, maybe that is why my first turbo truck install is going on over 1.5 years. Good news is that the turbo header is almost done for the other truck.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Yep, got the heads for $25.

I know what you mean by extra parts, lmao, my collection is getting larger.

No, I'm not sick of the car yet. With a big family, it's hard to get time to myself. The kids are too young to help, but they enjoy waching when I can keep them entertained, haha. Also I have been renovating my house (still damage caused by Wilma), and have yet to get a cherry picker or stand yet - but in the next few weeks project Forced_Firebird will be rolling again .

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

The great thing about parts is that you can always find someone else that wants them later on if you don't need them.

Kids love that stuff. I was amazed how interested they were when I was testing out the water injection pump last year. They learned a lot about measuring stuff in the process. All it took was a couple of quart jugs, a used milk jug, the pump, and an ECM with all kinds of wires spread out in the garage. They all got a kick out of the nozzles spraying water. The kids are going to love hear that turbo go "woot woot" or "whish whish". That sucks about the storm. I hope it all works out well for you.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

I just discovered that the Chinese invented cast iron .

eric17422001

Glad to read of progress, even if a guy has to take a step backwards once in awhile.

My V6 turbo project isn't going to happen since Doward took my money and disappeared. Kinda lost interest in it.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Thanx, and that sucks.

I know what happened to you and I think it's pretty lame of Doward. I couldn't immagine how furious I would be. You gave up all that cash at once for a kit which would hurt more than the piece-by-piece purchases I made.

Didn't someone give you his address (believe it was Dean)?

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

when i first started to do mine,i almost bought a turbo and some other parts from doward,totally un aware of what happened,glad i didnt.i found out about it once i tried to setup a group purchase over a year ago,and one of the admins closed it and had informed me of what went down

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

I'm concerned the same thing happend to me. I gave my money to a guy two weeks ago for a crank, pistons and rods and is not answering my messages/mail since apologizing for a delay two days after the funds posted.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

The web is a great tool for information. It is a great tool for scammers too. Always use Paypal with a credit card. That way if paypal can't help you, the credit card company will.

I had a guy wanting to do an "ebay safe buy" for a 2004 VW turbo diesel car a few weeks ago for $3000. Wow, what a great deal. Turns out the car was in the UK after all and all he needed was my info to set up the deal. I asked more questions. Big surprise, no response. Be careful......lots of losers out there.