firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Here's a link to the description of the crane cams studs...
http://www.cranecams.com/index.php?show=browseParts&action=partSpec&partNumber=99148-2&lvl=3&prt=114

EDIT : It's funny how you can get the same part from different suppliers, Summit has them for $27 a PAIR and other places have the same exact item for $16 a pair (both are from crane).

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

what is the thread size were it screws into the head?,is it the stoc stud thread size?
with those the ford 1.7's will bolt right on,though prolly require custom lenght pushrod to keep gometry right but then again there only one way to find out

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

It coverts the 10mm 1.5 threads into the head to a stud that is 3/8"-24.
They're not cheap, though. Summit has them for $27 for TWO! I have found them at horsepowerwizard for $16 for two. Either way the studs will cost you a minimum of $96, although it's going to be nice to be able to use the SBC/FSB rockers as they are far less than buying the 60* set - not to mention you get four extra rockers.
.
So the SBF rockers for $69 + $96 = $165 for a 1.7 ratio (providing I can use the stock pushrods)
.
What diameter are the pushrods?

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

not the threads on the top,the threads were they screw iniot the head,if they dont retian the metric thread i cant use them on the aluminum heads,(0 room for a drill and retap)
stock pushrods measure .310

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Sorry if you miss understood, they bolt right into the head and have the 3/8's threads on the top half....
Here's a pic:
BROWSE PRODUCTS
.
Thanx again, I searched for that - to no avail.
.
EDIT : Is that the biggest that can go in there without machining the block?

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

its not the block u wold have to machine,and why would u install a larger diam pushrod?as long as they are stiff and strong.though if u wanted to go larger u would be limited mostly by the guideplates,u would have to clearance them to fit a larger pushrod

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Are you sure they are .310? 5/16" is .3125 . Seems like most p-rods are 5/16's or 3/8's. I already found out, the 5/16" will work.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Got both sets of rockers today! The SBF and SBC rockers are in fact the same.
.
The difference between the 60* and SBF rockers are as follows :

Make / Pivot ball inner diameter / Pivot ball outer / Rocker Arm slot
SBF / 9.65mm or .0375" / 20.40mm or .0803" / 10.68mm or .0420"
SBC / 10mm or .0393" / 20.63mm or .0812" / 10.5mm or .0413"
.
Do you think I can use the SBF rockers and the 60* pivot ***** and nuts?
.

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

hard to tell without actually having them to see in person.Is the radius on the pivot ***** the same?,and does the 60* pivot ball drop into the sbf rocker without interference?

hey got any pics of the rockers side by side etc

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Radius is very close, and yes it fits in nicely.
Get some pics later.
I'll just pick up a set of the Crane adapter rocker bolts.
For now going to install the 1.6RR's and chrome molly pushrods untill I get the studs.
Dave, that tack spray you told me about - all I can find at the parts stores is the 3M stuff that I already have. Think I'm going to try it when I have the covers off..

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

how close is close? do u happen to have a set of raduis qauges ?
btw ur intercooler will be shipping monday,actually if i goto the shop tom to work on some of my projects it will ship out tommorow

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

No radius guages
But I have a good camera, can take pics.
Think the best thing to do, though, is get the 3/8's conversion studs to be sure they are right. Also foud out the SBC full roller rockers are IDENTICAL to the SBF full RR's. This means when I get the studs, all I have to do is wait for a good deal on some higher ratio's.

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

true,when u do that ill buy those 1.7's from ya

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

The 1.7's were only $69 delivered. The 1.6's will be up for sale before the 1.7's lol.

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

oh i thought u bought a set of sbc and sbf 1.7's. if u wanted i could measure the radius on one of the pivot *****,if there the same u could save the 96$'s or whatever it was on the studs for something else

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Where can I get a cheap radius guage, maybe Harbor Freight, HMMMM
.
EDIT: And I could still sell the 1.6's haha

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

1.7's on the intake valves and 1.6's on the ex side

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Now we're talkin!

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

well that all dep[ends on what the cam specs are,would work really well for a single patern cam,though id prolly swing it 1.7/1.5 depending on the specs

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Running a stock cam for now...

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Here's the pics of the rockers side-by-side:

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

And some more:





.
The GM pivot ball fits inside the Ford rocker just as tight as the Ford pivot ball does.
I'm thinking of just trying it, what's the worst that can happen? Maybe just ruin the Ford rocker arms or GM pivot ball - both are easily replaced.

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

good pics,look slike the ford ball has a diff radius,id pull a valve cover after 50-100 miles and see how the ball/rockers is wearing.
how is the contact on the valve tip,almost look sliek the sbf 1.7 may stick over just a tad

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Nope, works nicely. The stock pivot had a closer profile to the SBF's - practically identical. As far as your suggestion about checking them, already thought of that, lol. I did use a socket to turn over the engine and check clearances, seems like the stock springs are going to be the first things to go.

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

nice ill have to put in for a set of the 1.7;s when i have the money

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

I've got four extras, LOL.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Here's some pics of the install of the rockers on the passenger side...

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Driver's side...

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

And a close up, the 1.7's are probably the max with the 60* because the roller is just on the edge of the valve top...

vwdave

Holy improper valvetrain geometry batman!

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Whatcha mean?
.
EDIT : Careful measurements were taken and discussion with manufacturers to ensure geometry.

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

i cant tell from pics,but it looks liek they sit ok.btw did u ever check to make sure the stock springs will not bind up with the added lift.
edit
ill measure a stock spring tom while im at the shop to see what hieght coil bind occurs

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Didn't bind, but was extremely close. That's why I said earlier that the springs are my FIRST concern.

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

ok here it is stock cam with 1.7 lift numbers
intake .448 lift
ex .465 lift

the intake is fine but i belive the ex side is binding or to close to be safe. i can get u an exact number tommorow when i measure the springs

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Thanx. If need be, I'll use the 1.6's for the exhaust. But I saw at least .010" of clearance as I was turning the motor by hand.
EDIT: If that happens, I will have an extra set of 1.6/1.7 hybrid's I can get rid of - hint hint

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

with a crane 260 cam (decent turbo cam) and 1.5/vs 1.7
1.5 int/ex
.427/454
1.7 int/ex
.484/.515
would deff need ls1/ls6 springs

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Unless I specify the 1.7's when ordering the cam.

vwdave

Does the tip of the rocker sit in the middle of the valve? Looks from here that it sits on the edge.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Not in the center, but only a little more than the Crane 1.6RR's I have that are made for the 60*V6 (they didn't center either). I talked to some manufacturers that make both the SBF and SBC rockers and told me they are identical (excluding the pedistal mount SBF). The difference will be the inside radius where the pivot ball sits. Since the stock 60* pivot ***** fit better than the ones that came with the SBF rockers, they were used. Not to mention Crane makes a stud that converts the 10mm to 3/8" stud so any 3/8's rocker can be used. On 60*.com they weren't surprised and some are already using SBC rockers in their cars.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Well I haven't got the turbo in yet, but I think I broke a valve spring. The 1.8 rockers must have taxed on of the exhaust valves a little too much (I knew I was dangerously close to binding, but ran them anyways). So I'm looking into getting some LSx springs. They can be used with Toyata Land Cruiser seats for a direct swap.
And VWDave, I take it back, the Ford rockers are off-center enough that it will eventually cause a problem with valve seals.
My plan is to go with the 1.6 Crane roller rockers I already have and sell the Fords on e-bay to halp pay for the Delta re-grind turbo cam. The 1.6's won't come so close to binding the springs which will be stronger anyways (with the LSx's).
Just thought I'd give you an update here. I guess this wasn't a budget build after all, hehe...

vwdave

*Does the DX 'Suck it' pose*

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

I know it sucks that I broke a spring, I thought the seals would be the first to go.

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

u broke a spring? the rockers being off center wouldnt do that,but coil bind deff would.

nows a good time to yank those heads and port them.dont go with lsx springs there are much better choices

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

I know the off-center wouldn't have broken the spring, but VW's comment about the "holy improper valve-train geometry" comment is what I was referring to.
What are the better options that will allow high lift and longer diration without damaging them? I can change the springs with the heads on, but probably will go ported/polished while I'm deep in the engine doing the cam swap anyways.

vwdave

Oh I know. It damages the seal, the guide and the valve. The spring was probably due to the increased lift which caused coil bind.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

I had about .010 of clearance between the coils (didn't actaully measure) when I hand cranked the engine over. Just don't know what the limits are on stock springs.

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

ill post u up some spring part numbers but which ones u buy will actually depend on the cam u buy.
u dont want more then say 115#'s seat preasure
i have a set on my gen 2 heads that are #110#'s seat and over 300#'s @ .500

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

HMMMM. Not the valvesprings like suspected, almost sounds like a marble is in the combustion chamber?!?! Well, now it looks like the heads are comming off and getting ported. Also ordered a cam from Delta.
.440 was the max lift with a re-ground cam. Got the cam and lifters for $100 and he even waved the core charge and gave me a free t-shirt .
212/212
.440/.440
duration 212 @.050
112 LSA
Advertised duration 260

Got a clip here of the weird sound that I thought was a broken spring. If it's a lifter, that's ok getting new ones.
EDIT: Put the 1.6 Crane RR's on today.
http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t...t=100_2726.flv

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

bent pushrod? or a damaged lifter,though i have seen it before were somone drops a lil screw or a nut down the manifold and it bounces around in the cyl.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Nope, turned out to be a loose bracket (noticed today AFTER putting in the 1.6rr's and checking the springs )?! Got that fixed and the water pump in tonight in time to get two runs in at the track. Didn't have time to perfect the fuel mix, so I ran the same 17.xx. It ran out of injector at the top of second and would stop at 5200RPM (not enough to go to 3rd at WOT) but got it figured out on the way home of course :P.