Guido

For those of you not following along, my winter project is installing a PT88 turbocharger on my 406. I got the turbo today!






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-86 IROC

-=ICON Motorsports=-

bill mcdonald

Damn that thing is huge!

What size is that inlet?

What is the CFM rating?

Ragin'87

I say.. DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN.. that thing looks bigger than the one on the damn 7.3L Power Stroke!... Makes the Cummins Turbo Diesel one look like a hairdryer. Plan on having ANY traction?

Anthony

mcconahay37

iTrader: (3)

Damn! That is one badass setup you've got going there.

PROCHARGED89Z

Nice Guido.Guido,how do you size a turbo for a motor.I went to there site and they mostly sell for Turbo buick.What are you running for comprsssion and boost#s.I can say this,turbos areway cheaper to buy that supercharger head units.How does the oiling of the turbo work?Like the oil fed head units?or does the oil just passthrew the turbo?And can you get a water cooled turbo,what is the difference.Thanks man.Let us know whats up.

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Check out my Hompage,or the beginnings of one.355 dynoed at 400HP at 5800RPM & 410LBFT of TQ,on Motorhttp://www.procharged89z.cz28.com/index.html

Tom Simpson

Holy Crap....I bought pullies and a shifter from a crazy man!

Put me in your will!

hehe,
Tom

Guido

I had intended to go with a T76 first. I told them I wanted to run lower boost for now because anything crazy and it will make too much power and crack the engine or spin a main or something worse. I also want to be able to grow when I go to a better block. They told me the PT88 would be a good comprimise with low boost and would flow a LOT of air on the top end when I wanted it later down the road.

The inlet on this one is 4" dia.

a73camaro

Your gonna need N2O just to get that turbo to spool up.

89ProchargedROC

no he wont

he has 400" feeding the turbo...and close to a 4000 stall.

maybe you should research something like Guido or i do before you say something

Guido

Yeah it isnt like I have a 305.

They told me that lag wouldnt be a problem at all.

a73camaro

Geesh, don't get you panties in a bind. So sorry I offended you.

That compressor is huge, and your gonna get turbo lag. Do you understand inertia. If your at pre-stage on a drag strip it is not a problem.

If your on the street, you'll see turbo lag. Some people with large turbos add the juice to get the compressor to spool up sooner.

Various pavement races do exotic stuff to keep the turbo spooled up. Example, fire the plugs on the intake/exhaust overlap on decel. Nitrous/fuel/spark in the exhaust. Air/fuel/spark into the exhaust. Even the simple "one foot on the brake, one on the gas" into deceleration turns.

Why, turbo lag.

Thank GAWD I didn't mention anything about the smashed thumb nail. I probably would of been crucified!

[This message has been edited by a73camaro (edited November 01, 2001).]

a73camaro

I believe that the Pilgrams told the Indians that they would buy Madhatten Island for $24 dollar.

ALL turobs have lag! FACT!

a73camaro

I should of said

"Your gonna need N2O to spool up fast".

IMO

a73camaro

First, why do you care....wait, oh, I understand. You're the one holding the turbo with the smashed thumbnail.

They do hurt, which explains you shortness.

BTW, was it hard to learn to hit the space key with your left thumb??

Lighten up dude....

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

holy cat fight, geez

nice turbo, why didn't u just go for a T100?

j/k i don't wanna get yelled at either

what's the sweet spot on that turbo? whats the max boost it can support?

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Check out MyGTA Nicknamed:The Big Red Machine
***AOL IM ClarkeMustGoNow***
Moderator at www.transamgta.com
"What does not kill us only makes us stronger"

Tony

Guido

Hey 73 it looks like you are the one getting your pantis in a bunch. chill dude.

There is lag with every turbo. Fact. I know this.

Will lag be a problem for my application: No. Hence my statement. Lag wont be a problem.

Cool it guys.

89ProchargedROC

i'm not the one in the picture

and since you seem to know a little about turbocharging, i'll apologize for being such a smartass

i just get tired of all the morons around here, thats all.

BUT

even around the street lag wont be that huge because of the large stall and the amount of exhaust volume that he pushing from the large stroke and big bore....if he really wanted it to spool fast he could put a smaller exhaust housing on it

like i said, do a little more reasearch before you start stating things

i know someone who had a T-96 turbo which is bigger than your head probably.....because it was bigger than mine LOL.....and he got into boost around town

not much, but he did

later

RMK

Guido

How much did tht bad boy set you back? I know that noone remembers the cost when your winning, but you've got me thinking now....damn you

Rob

Mike B

That is sweet.

a73camaro

Thanks PRO, I do agree that there is a lot of people that say less than intelligent things on these boards.

And you're right, I know a little (which is dangerous) about turbos. Worked with them (partial basis) for 2 1/2 years on SAABS.

I myself want to get a couple of turbos on my '73, but I won't turbo a carb. I have a LPR intake and a 730 computer and wiring harness for this winter's project. Once the TPI is dialed in, then come the turbos.

The size of the turbo is amazing. It's huge. And Guido wasn't looking for opinions, he wanted to show off his new toy. May you have a quick and simple install.

Sorry if I stepped on any toes.

This list has been a great asset.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Okay, any way you look at that is funny.

Omega

iTrader: (1)

Guido, how much was the T76? $1500-$2000? Keep us informed.. i am interested to see how you are going to plumb the exhaust.

Justin 87 GTA

iTrader: (3)

I'm sure some of those "morons" that post here, know much more about a lot of things than you do. Because they don't play on this board or thier cars all day, instead concentrating on other, more important things, doesn't make you any smarter or faster.

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SUPERCHARGED 87 GTA: Blk/Gld w/Superam, 355cid Trickflows, forged pistons 9.5:1. Auto 2,600 stall, 3.45 9 bolt disc, Best ET (Nat. Asp.): 13.567 @ 101.900 w/ a poor 60ft. Best mph: 104.3 -*100% NYS emissions legal*
http:// www.community.webtv.net/munks87/JustinsGTApage.com
VORTECH S-TRIM completed 7/9/01: 10 & 15 LB. Pulleys, HKS race bypass, serpentine swap. No ET: 8/26/01, Blew motor before track. Rebuild in progess. Beat a freinds 12.9 @ 108 Camaro by A LOT. EST. mid-low 12's as it was. Looking for 11's w/ new motor.

89ProchargedROC

did i call you a moron?

did i SPECIFICALLY call anyone a moron?

NO

The morons i refer to are the ones who ask the same *** damn questions about the same subject over and over again without searching out the topic first

Guido

He has a point. How many times do you see these threads:

"Twin Turbo for my TPI?"

"Twin turbo or supercharger?"

"Turbocharge by TBI?"

It gets annoying. 10 times out of 10 if they scrolled down just a little there is the topic right there because it is beaten to death. It seems hardly anyone does research before they post a question. And most of the time, you know its going to fall on dead ears. Turbocharging isnt something you just get into. You have to know a little. Like I saw one person one time ask if they could use their long tube headers with a turbo. I about fell out of my chair laughing.

JucinGTA

NAAAAAAAAA!!!!!! Single turbo for guido, give other one to Jucin

Justin 87 GTA

iTrader: (3)

Just delete them then. you can!

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SUPERCHARGED 87 GTA: Blk/Gld w/Superam, 355cid Trickflows, forged pistons 9.5:1. Auto 2,600 stall, 3.45 9 bolt disc, Best ET (Nat. Asp.): 13.567 @ 101.900 w/ a poor 60ft. Best mph: 104.3 -*100% NYS emissions legal*
http:// www.community.webtv.net/munks87/JustinsGTApage.com
VORTECH S-TRIM completed 7/9/01: 10 & 15 LB. Pulleys, HKS race bypass, serpentine swap. No ET: 8/26/01, Blew motor before track. Rebuild in progess. Beat a freinds 12.9 @ 108 Camaro by A LOT. EST. mid-low 12's as it was. Looking for 11's w/ new motor.

PROCHARGED89Z

They should put up a notice that pops up when you open the power adder section that says.

ATTN:Turbos are custom,they dont work on sock 305tbis with 15 lbs of boost,eclipse turbos dont work either,blah blah blah,

it does get old,just pick up a book about the subject and read(no one seems to do this anymore)Then when you have viable question by all means post them.But for some one to ask the same questions over and over,it almost is comparable to the duel exhaust threads in the exhaust forum.

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Check out my Hompage,or the beginnings of one.355 dynoed at 400HP at 5800RPM & 410LBFT of TQ,on Motorhttp://www.procharged89z.cz28.com/index.html

killer305

iTrader: (1)

so i guess you were born knowing everything, if people like you are here and dont like to answer to "morons" then were did you learn your stuff, im sure you were a "moron" once too, why dont you just pack up and get the F*ck out of here, we are here to help each other, im sure you know ever last thing about engines, or wait are you a "moron" about camshafts, or servo's or ring and pinions. most people dont know everthing like you, but most people dont mind sharing their knowladge.



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90 RS 305 tbi, 4 3/4" cowl Hood, Edelbrock TES headers, Flowmaster exhaust, Crane roller cam, comp roller rockers, vortec heads/intake, ported tbi, w/new injectors, MSD probillet Distributer/ coil, 1 inch tbi spacer, air foil, 14x4 k&n flat base air cleaner, Rebuilt 700r4 w/ B&M shift kit, B&M Megashifter, 3.23 posi, 2 12 RF's with mtx amp, top of line alpine cd player, soon to have 90-91 gfx, z-28 wing, new paintjob, rims, and all new lowered suspension.

RMK

killer305

You make a valid point.

Rob

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

killer305, you make a point, but you failed to read the entire post... he specifically said the "morons" he is sick of are the ones that ask the same questions over and over again on the same topic. Anyone who has been around the boards for awhile has noticed this trend, new people come in and ask the same question that has been asked over and over, on every board it happens.
Just read the whole post before you reply...

89ProchargedROC

at least someone reads the entire post and gets the point

89ProchargedROC

Yup i was once a moron too...in the sense i didn't know a lot. So know what i did? I went and bought some books, read them. Then i searched the forums for the answers i needed. Then when i was all done, only then did i start asking questions. Too bad the old board isn't around, i asked many questions about my problems when i had my ATI. I still answer many questions and try to be as helpful as i can be. i just get aggravated when people dont really *look into* anything, they just kinda come asking questions and expect EVERYONE ELSE (meaning us on the board) to give them all the answers. This is turn shoves the posts that might be a little more important down the list and they dont get answered or are missed because someone decided they'd be lazy and not look into anything first

damn right, you are always learning when it comes to cars. You can never know everything. i'm all for helping everyone. I share my knowledge on what i know and ask on what i dont know...i'll even share some right now...its "knowledge" not "knowladge"

j/k...lighten up man

a73camaro

I found a bigger one on ebay. Only $1.00 too!!!

Big *** turbo

killer305

iTrader: (1)

yeah i guess i hadn't read the entire post when i posted. yeah when i see what your talking about i acutually agree with. and i understand what you mean when you say that you read books and magazines to learn what you know. im 17 and have built my engine, by myself, with no previous experience. i hate it when people call me a moron and dont think i know what im doing. its like i had a bad ground and that left my windows stuck up and my doorlocks nonfucntional. i broght it to a mechanic and when i picked it up he started asking me about my engine, and the first thing he said was "who built it for you" and when i said myself he said "im supprised it runs" i flipped out. i hate it when people underestimate my ablitities when it comes to doing things. i remember building the huge lego cars and tractor trailers that were made for 12 and 13 year olds when i was 9. ever since then i have taken on some strange projects, i built a go-cart out of a 125cc honda engine when i was 14, and people were amaized. then when i tell people that im re-building my engine people are like yeah right, you'll never get thing thing running again. i have a class at school called power and energy. the teacher thinks he knows everthing about cars. it used to be an auto shop, but has since been tuned into an electrical, metalfab, small engines, and auto shop. i told that guy that i was building my engine and he laughed. but then when i ask him about nitrous, or blowers or fuel injection i seem too know ten times the stuff he knows. we were trying to "fix" my friends crown vic (basicaly just looking at the engine compartment) and when he took the air cleaner off hes like now thats the carborator. Knowing what a tbi is i said, no thats a tbi, and he said well its the same thing, but this is electornic, and i said oh really acutally a carborator works on vacume and the air is accelorated be the venturie, and a tbi works on fuel pressure and there is no venturie, they are 2 totaly different things. he seemed shocked and all the kids started laughing at him. he got pissed and told me to sit down. and still to this day he asks me if i torqued the head bolts properly. so basically what im trying to say is i hate it when peooke think im a moron. when im older im going to be a mechanical engineer and design and build engines so asking now is like studing for the future.
no hard fellings huh


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90 RS 305 tbi, 4 3/4" cowl Hood, Edelbrock TES headers, Flowmaster exhaust, Crane roller cam, comp roller rockers, vortec heads/intake, ported tbi, w/new injectors, MSD probillet Distributer/ coil, 1 inch tbi spacer, air foil, 14x4 k&n flat base air cleaner, Rebuilt 700r4 w/ B&M shift kit, B&M Megashifter, 3.23 posi, 2 12 RF's with mtx amp, top of line alpine cd player, soon to have 90-91 gfx, z-28 wing, new paintjob, rims, and all new lowered suspension.

TTA850

Just curious but what is your eventual goal?A turbo that size can flow enough air to run mid 8's

Terry Houston and Joe Lubrant both run the PT-88-TSE and Terry's mid 8's while Joe I belive is low 9's or around there

Oh and good choice getting it from,or at least using a PT&E.I got my TE-64-1 from them,which should put me right around 10.0

Steve

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1989 Turbo Trans Am's #124 and #850
1989 Turbo GTA,600hp 3.8L SFI TURBO
2001 Kawasaki ZX-6R
www.tta850.com

TTA850

Oh one more thing,they are running the 3-bolt exhaust housing.You should be theoretically able to make more power with the 4-bolt housing

Steve

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1989 Turbo Trans Am's #124 and #850
1989 Turbo GTA,600hp 3.8L SFI TURBO
2001 Kawasaki ZX-6R
www.tta850.com

PROCHARGED89Z

TTA850,I am interested in your comments.I too am going turbo,=.I posed this question of which turbo for my application.And think I found one,the one you mentioned TE64.I am running a 355 and want something to give me quick spoolup on the street,as my car is street strip.My goal is the 10s.And I think I can get there with this turbo.Another factor is the cost.The bigger you go the price goes up considerably,the TE64 is around $1000 while a 76 and 88 is around $1700.Also,is a cam change needed,as in do I need to run a special grind cam when I go turbo?And Is there anyone I should contact that specializes in grinding and helping me pick out one?Thanks

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Check out my Hompage,or the beginnings of one.355 dynoed at 400HP at 5800RPM & 410LBFT of TQ,on Motorhttp://www.procharged89z.cz28.com/index.html

TTA850

A TE-64 is a great turbo in all it's forms but if I were you make sure you get the one with the larger compressor housing.

They make 3 variations of it that I know of

1-TE-64E which is a 3 bolt turbo with the small compressor housing supports around 680hp

2-TE-64-1 which is also a 3-bolt turbo with the larger compressor housing(the one I have) and supports up to 725hp

3-TE-64 which is a 4-bolt version of the turbo I have and can support around 750hp.This is the one for you.

Also,I've never turbocharged a V-8 before but you asked about spooling and what directly affects spooling is the exhaust housing.I think it is very important to select the right housing for your application.

Doing some rough math your engine is roughly 1/3 larger than mine and should therefore flow roughly 1/3 more air through it.So if my car spools well with the PT&E .63 a/r exhaust housing then your's should do well with one around 1/3 larger,or around a .94 a/r PT&E housing.

I don't know if what I've said is right but it seems to make sense to me

Steve

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1989 Turbo Trans Am's #124 and #850
1989 Turbo GTA,600hp 3.8L SFI TURBO
2001 Kawasaki ZX-6R
www.tta850.com

[This message has been edited by TTA850 (edited November 06, 2001).]

TTA850

Oh and I think PT&E would be a good place to call about what kind of cam to use.Again I don't have any knowledge of turbocharging V8's but they sure do.

http://www.precisionte.com/

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1989 Turbo Trans Am's #124 and #850
1989 Turbo GTA,600hp 3.8L SFI TURBO
2001 Kawasaki ZX-6R
www.tta850.com

Guido

I know that it is a big turbo. I told Harry (at precision) I wanted something that I could be conservative with and still make some decent power. I had originally figured I was going to go with the T76 but they talked me out of it describing it as a SPEC turbo more or less for some classes or something. LIke to fill the gap between 900-1000hp. He said it wouldnt have the low end punch I was after and if I run it on the high end it will defenitley toast the block I have which is a factory 400 block.

So my plan, is to run a good (HKS GT) wastegate, and hold the boost down below 10psi or so and hope the motor holds out until next winter at which time Id like to upgrade to a Dart block and start pushing some more to see how far I can go with that.

Yeah its a big turbo. But it can be good a good conservative one, and when I lean on it, will go even further than Im looking for now.

TTA850

Well Harry knows his turbo's and I'm sure he won't steer you wrong.As for a wastegate and boost controller you might want to check out Innovative Turbo Systems.

I'm using their controller(pictured)and most likely their wastegate.


It's a closed loop system complete with 0-60 psi MAP sensor,dual control solinoids and lots of features.

Just a thought,
Steve

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1989 Turbo Trans Am's #124 and #850
1989 Turbo GTA,600hp 3.8L SFI TURBO
2001 Kawasaki ZX-6R
www.tta850.com

Guido

Im going with the HKS wastegate.
Still undecided on boost control. Maybe just a ref line with an adjustable bleeder in it.

PROCHARGED89Z

TTA850,you were right,I talked with Jim today and he told me the best for my application was the 3 TE64.He recommended this as I can use my already low stall 2900,he said as I go bigger I would need a larger stall.With the Te64 he told me 700hp is attainable,and in my weight car,34-3500lbs with good traction a 9.90 is possible.He said the Te64 is ideal because of the small size compared to like a t76.I asked him about the T76 and he told me he would not recomend it to anyone running it on the street as it build alot of backpressure in the exhaust,and would recomend a t72 or a 74 I am not sure.Plus the price is a big plus for me for the Te64,like $960.This is turning out to be well worth it.

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Check out my Hompage,or the beginnings of one.355 dynoed at 400HP at 5800RPM & 410LBFT of TQ,on Motorhttp://www.procharged89z.cz28.com/index.html

TTA850

Cool,I'm glad to hear we were thinking in the right direction.

I have another question for both Procharged89Z and Guido,what are your plans for intercooling?Just curious scince I'm using a Charged Air System V2 I was wondering what else is out there.

Here's a pic of the V2 BTW:
http://www.tta850.com/TTA-V2.jpg

Steve

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1989 Turbo Trans Am's #124 and #850
1989 Turbo GTA,600hp 3.8L SFI TURBO
2001 Kawasaki ZX-6R
www.tta850.com

PROCHARGED89Z

I am going to reuse my ATI setup,its all set up with 3 ich pipe diameter and it is Air to air.The intercooler core is 27 inches long.the builder is just going to runna couple of pipes to the fender and it will do a reverse flow,comming out of the drivers side instead of the passengers side.I also have a water alcohol kit just in case.But the motor is comming out this week to go to Quest in Worster.I am thinking of having them cc the heads so i can lower the compression down to 8 to 1 or so as recomended by Joe.Just want to be able to run that so called crap they call pump gas nowadays

------------------
Check out my Hompage,or the beginnings of one.355 dynoed at 400HP at 5800RPM & 410LBFT of TQ,on Motorhttp://www.procharged89z.cz28.com/index.html

Guido

Im going to use a liquid/air intercooler and put it under the nose. I race the car so much more than i drive it so I am willing to accept the compromise of liquid/air during the times I AM on the street. Its not like I am stop light racing or anything anyway. lol

89ProchargedROC

i wouldn't make the compression that LOW

keep it around 9.0:1 and that is fine for what you want to do....with that compression and a good intercooler you could run about 15-16psi on PUMP GAS

that is a decent amount of boost

throw in some race gas and you could up it to about 20psi and be FLYN'

8.0:1 is just too low for a street car like yours, you'll lose gas mileage, throttle response, and some tip in driveability

Guido

Good points jimmy.
Ive got 9.2:1 and im leaving it like that. I just swapped out my camshaft for a custom cam motion one.

No worries. I use race gas at the track too though. No comprimises here.

PROCHARGED89Z

Jim,what is the compression of a GN motor?You will never be able to run 15lbs withouttaking out timing on pump gas on 9.1.Its stated you gain 4% for every compression point so its safe to say the opposite is true also.Jim told me its much better to lower comp.than take out timing.8.1 is nothing,the smog motors from the 70s have comprssions like this ,Eclipse turbos run 7.8 to1 this is a 4 banger more than half the size of my motor,my friend has one,you dont notice anything,as with a Turbo Ta motor that another has transplanted in a 67 chevelle.They just get up and go.I will not run race gas on the street,to expensive,not worth it at all,at this power level,your car is a pig on gas anyway,and race gas doenst last long on the street.Im just going to let the boost do all the work



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Check out my Hompage,or the beginnings of one.355 dynoed at 400HP at 5800RPM & 410LBFT of TQ,on Motorhttp://www.procharged89z.cz28.com/index.html