1987Formula350

I'm replacing a tired and broken 350 TPI
from my Firebird. I would like to buy a GM
crate 350HO and a Weiand 6-71 or 8-71
Blower. Any ideas you guys have about what components and specs I should use would be great. Like carbs,cam, heads, compression, rockers, or maybe even a different engine. I'm hoping to get around 600-650 HP. And I'm not concerned with emissions or gas milage.
Thanks!

TheWraith

if you want to build big boost on a small block, don't buy a gm crate motor. I'd say your best bet would be an all forged components 8:1 compression 400/406 as a starting point.

Everyone likes different heads, but if price is not a concern, look at the AFR offerings. If price is a concern, look into the GM vortec and fast burn stuff.

Cams all depend, but for a cam in a boosted application, make sure you stay reasonably mild, and minimize overlap, because boost escapes if both the intake and exhaust valve are open.


that should get you started....btw, i don't want to stocker shock you, but to put together what you want with that amount of horsepower, you are going to spend a good $5000 or better on just the engine not counting the cost of the blower.

vortech305

Hey the wraith i liked your car in the the movie. By the way what kind of car was that. I noticed a chysler insignia in the front bumper.

------------------
92' camaro
New 305 block TPI conversion, Flat top pistons,Bore over .30 Forged parts all around,Edelbrock intake,ported plennum,ported corvette alluminum heads, accel cam,52mm throttle bodie, SLP runners Home aid cold air induction, Air foil,ford SVO 19lb injectors,fuel regulator,cloys timing chain, comp alluminum roller rocker arms and pushrods MSD 8.5 mm wires, bosch plattinum plugs, hypertech cap & rotor and coil, Edelbrock TES headers, free flowing catalytic converter and a 3 inch force II flowmaster exhaust system, and a 3 inch cutout,Zoom multi friction clutch, T-5 tranny,billenstien shocks&struts.
Soon to come!!!
Procharger system 12lbs o boost.
New paint job(hawaiin orchid purple)Cast alluminum ZR1 rims w/ 275 tires.
Favorite quote: "where ever u go, there u are"

Other car;
1971 plymouth Duster
Mods:340,edelbrock victor jr. intake, 650 4 barrel holley, heddman headers,40 series dual flowmasters, cold air intake,4:10 gears, just got a new paint job and cragar rims with 315 tires in the back.
:Yeah its not a chevy but damn how many 71' dusters have u seen in the streets.

The ODB

you will need a stronger engine, possibly a bowtie block with the bottom mostly filled. Scat cranks & rods are good, JE-pistons for at least 10:1 compression with Iron heads +methanol. A fairly short duration roller camshaft like the LPE #74219 combined with 1.7 ratio roller rockers would work well with methanol.
I would go with a Wilson modified manifold, and a Holley type carb modified by the Carb-Shop for methanol use. You will probably need an MSD-7 or better, or run a magneto style ignition.

was this the kind of combo you were talking about?

Dart408

ODB,

What kind of drugs are you doing?
A stock block can handle 650 horse just fine!
You don't need methanol for that power level?
Do you even know anything about methanol?
You don't run it with a wimpy 10:1, you go more around 15:1+ on the compression!

Wraith, is a lot closer to what you will need, but I wouldn't go lower than 8.5:1 unless you are going for more than 20#'s of boost.

Stick with a good solid 355 SBC, Scat internals would be fine for your power level, I'd also recommend a roller cam.
For ignition, just go with the MSD BTM. It gives you the timing retard and rev limiter all in one package.

It's not hard to make 650 horse if you get the right parts the first time and spend the money where it makes the most difference (heads and valvetrain).

Good luck
Dave

------------------
If a little's good,
More is better
And too much is just right!

Dan W

This is from http://www.airflowresearch.com


RPM Torque H.P.
4000 550 500
4500 559 510
5000 570 560
5500 592 610
6000 611 692
6500 587 630
7000 520 540

Dyno Test Criteria
Horsepower: 690
Engine: Blown 383 with 671 Weiand
Heads: AFR 195 competition package
Compression: 7.8:1
Carburetor: 2 Holley 650 double pumpers
Ignition: MSD Billet Distributor with 32 Degrees timing
Cam: Comp Cams Xtrem Energy Hyd Roller, 230/236 @ .050, .544-.555 lift, 114 LSA
Exhaust: 1 3/4 Headers
Fuel: 93 octane pump gas

Engine built and dyno tested by American Speed.



[This message has been edited by Dan W (edited March 18, 2001).]

The ODB

Dave,

here's the answer to your question.

Dart408

I don't see an answer?

theformula

600+hp? Buy a supra tt and spend $3k in mods.



[This message has been edited by theformula (edited March 18, 2001).]

20-psi

How about a Z06 and 200 shot of nitrous.

Dart408

Yeah, That would certainly mess you up! LOL

Dave
93 TA
Dart Block 406sbc
NOS Pro Race Fogger (400 shot)
and so on!

------------------
If a little's good,
More is better
And too much is just right!

paul_huryk

420 small block
250hp nitrous

Can you say single digits?

In other words about 750hp, or about 1200 Supra TT hp (for the ricers on the board).

I have spoken

------------------
Paul Huryk, billionare in training.
Monkey Guy Racing
Almost part of the moderately infamous NJ in-your-face all goomba crew

Do it right the first time.

Paul's home page

1985 IROC LG4 POS Best: 15.20s at 92.1mph
1984 Camaro 350 LG4 Best: 12.21s at 121.7mph

The smart person pays for something today so that more is received tomorrow.
The ignorant person gets something today and hopes to have enough money to pay for it tomorrow.

theformula

I know this is off topic, but I saw a post about that 1200hp supra. ALOT do exist. Craig Paisley has a 1997 toyota supra TT. The entire engine is stock w/50kmiles on it. The heads have never been off the car.

Stock body too, no carbon fiber. With all bolt ons (bigger turbos of course)...he runs 8.2@162mph on a 3.0 liter!!! Stock drivetrain!
http://www.turbomagazine.com/archive/toc0200.html

I wish our cars trannys and rears could take horses. We can't go over the 300hp mark without things breaking

He's at import nationals sometimes. There are RX7s in the 7s, which have smaller engines!


[This message has been edited by theformula (edited March 18, 2001).]

The ODB

the point is that supras dyno high numbers and still run slow. They have to pull 200hp (or more) more than an american V8 in order to equal the E.T. performance.
The parts on a supra live because there is never that much stress on them.

if someone wants a fast *****, they should buy a bike.

theformula

ODB, show me a factory American motor that can perform in the low 8s without getting into the internals of the engine? Won't happen . LS1/LT1/LT4/LT5 all have compression too high to run boost you need to get into single digit ets. Even if they could, the car's drivetrain would NEVER take 1200hp. It's just not posible, and no one has done it nor will they ever (on a stock engine).


Furthermore, we are comparing a 3.0 liter to a 5.7L here. Call me a "*****" if you must, but the performance of Japanese supercars is amazing. Hell, there are Mazda miatas in the 9s on the stock block!

All disbelievers: I invite you to take a trip to Engishtown when the Import Nationals are taking place.



Anytime you run boost in the "teens", you're putting stress on an engine....regardless of manufacturer. The reason the supra and 300zx engines drivetrain take so much hp is because they are de-tuned race engines.
How can there be "no stress" on an engine in the 8s?

I have had this same discussion several times on this board. Not once has anyone been able to come up with an American motor capable of equaling or surpassing the performance of Craig Paisley's supra, yet they all bash it.

Oh yea, there are 1.3 liter Mazda RX7tts in the high 7s now by the way.

The ODB

LOL

Kevin G

Supras are bad *** cars.. 300Zs are junk in comparison.

That car you mentioned is crazy. But that is one in a million so to speak. Most guys with Supras can get to around 130 trap speeds or so on a stock motor before they start spitting parts out the block. Their autos flat out suck performance wise, and a good rebuild to handle serious power will cost you close to 10k. Hell, I have seen Supra guys run 400 Turbo trannys becuase of how much money the Supra trannys cost.

Supras do seem to dyno incredible h.p. , then run slower at the track in relation to the dyno numbers like ODB mentioned.

I know one guy who dynoed 700RWHP, and only ran 124 mph at the track. Another guy 900RWHP...132 at the track.

Their rears make it hard to hook up without doing serious work, but these cars murder others on top end running.

There is a guy who ran 9s on a bone stock 4.6 Cobra motor with a poweradder, but it also isnt the norm.

I wonder how many stock motors that guy blew up before getting those numbers? I personally dont have enough money to find out trying something like that LOL
But, I wouldnt mind owning one of those Supras at all. Definately not considered rice.. They kick major booty!!


[This message has been edited by Kevin G (edited March 19, 2001).]

theformula

300zs junk in comparison? They're also 8 second stock based cars, they used to hold a record for landspeed as well. I have driven several twin turbo 300z's. Even a stage 5 (which has put many a C5 in the rearview easily). I don't know how they can be called junk. Did I mention they were Car and Drivers "car of the year" every year they were made?


None, I told you the car had 50,000 miles on it and the heads have never been off the car.


I think I'm done with this topic...the rest of you need to check out the Import Nationals. See ya there guys

superiroc

Check out bills vette speedwayracing 1650hp small block 408 with a turbo this will eat the fastest supra out there. I'am not bashing supras they are nice but a small block v8 with turbo technology of today will beat any supra. I don't think those supras in the 8s are as stock as they may tell you. I have talked with a few guys they are heavily modified when you see a 9 or 8 second supra. Correct me if I'am wrong but the fastes supra is about 8 flat @165 approximetly. Bills vette ran 8.5 @165 at only 14# of boost he expects 7s with full boost 33# and he runs the factory IRS rear it was the first time to the track with the new engine.

Kevin G

In reference to 300Zs, if you throw enough money at anything, it will be a nice car.. The brakes, susp, and fuel system , motors are lacking when stock compared to the Supra..Supra was designed for future mods it seems, where as 300Z, you will need to redo much more to support high h.p. applications.

In comparison yes I think they are junk.


SuperIroc, you got to love those smallblock turbos!

My buddy was in Fla. a couple weekends ago, and there were smallblock 5.0 based Mustangs hitting over 200 mph. in the 1/4. can we say 6 seconds!

[This message has been edited by Kevin G (edited March 19, 2001).]

superiroc

yup that is impresive. Bill uses a bowtie block that means race for chevy. Keep in mind a Z cost alot less $ and will beat a supra stock LS-1. I like the supra but for HP a small block (EFI,Turbo,super) will win every time.

CrazyRob75

since you like spending money, why mess with a small block. Put a healthy, but streetable BBC in there and cap it off a blower or nitrous.

------------------
85 Berlinetta Iroc exterior NOW 454 powered, 4.10 gears, and a PILE of other goodies..........YES, it's street driven!

check it out at http://www.bsronline.net/members/rob/rob_specs.html

paul_huryk

Since when is a car with turbos 3 sizes bigger, monster intercoolers and a boatload of extra electronics stock? Its not, so get that out of your head. I don't think a Supra with mods that don't replace anything can get more than an extra 50hp (I'm talking raising the boost and fuel pressure a little). To get big HP numbers you need to spend big $$$. A twin-turbo conversion with the plumbing and intercoolers is way over $10,000, not counting a few electronics boxes at $1000 a piece.

I'm not saying Supras are slow or unreliable, but merely pointing out that they are just turbo motors like anything else. They do have good parts-forged cranks, good rods, forrged pistons, because the warranty requires it.

In a turbo car, the bad things that happen are typically melted pistons (too much boost, not enough fuel); bent connecting rods (detonation); and breaking a crank (more like through the block). I would think with the Supra a lot of people boost it too much without good electronic controls (melted pistons); and break cranks (when an a$$ revs it to 9000rpm). You have to boost the hell out of it and rev it high to get decent power, especially since a GN motor is 50ci bigger at least.

As for the drivetrain: who said it can handle 1200hp? The best auto trans are either GM or Ford in terms of max power handling, both start to break around 750hp, a 4L80 might handle 1200hp in a light car. There is no way a built auto from Japan or Germany in any street going car can handle that, and the manuals handle less before glazing a clutch or breaking into small pieces. I'll bet those fast Supras run Jehrico or some other race trans, possibly even powerglides. I'll also bet most run Ford 9" rears too.

By the time you get all the parts right, it has to cost at least as much a an equivalently fast third gen, but with less driveability and greater chance to break something. All you have to do is send a check to Dutweiler (a big check), get some chassis, trans, and rear work, and you will have a 1400hp small block that doesn't have to rev past 6500rpm to run 8's.

As for the RX7's, they have no real rev limit, but they are typically 2000lb stripped race cars, haven't seen a really fast one yet that was a fully loaded one.

The 300ZX is almost the same as the Supra: 3liter, twin turbos, rear drive... I guess that equal cars with equal work would be about the same.

I still like american motors: big with a lot of torque. You don't have to rev them high to get a lot of power. But if you have a Camaro, Corvette, Mustang, or Firebird; you have no limit on what you can do: if you have the money you can fit in a 2000hp nitrous big-block if you want, or a twin turbo small block, or a turbo six... its up to you.

One thing I don't want to hear on this board is how the technology of other cars out there makes third gen inferior, its not so. Hell, if the 3L Jap motors are so great, why do they need turbos to compete? For god sake, I'm waiting patiently for some fool in an M5 or new 911 to pull up to me and invite me to a race. I won't have a problem feeling proud when my "inferior" 350 eats their ego-mobile for lunch.

Just the facts, plus a few feelings.

------------------
Paul Huryk, billionare in training.
Monkey Guy Racing
Almost part of the moderately infamous NJ in-your-face all goomba crew

Do it right the first time.

Paul's home page

1985 IROC LG4 POS Best: 15.20s at 92.1mph
1984 Camaro 350 LG4 Best: 12.21s at 121.7mph

The smart person pays for something today so that more is received tomorrow.
The ignorant person gets something today and hopes to have enough money to pay for it tomorrow.

superiroc

I agree the small block is not outdated they have just been making it better (ls1). If we were in charge of GM I'am sure we would all slap on some turbos like the jap cars. They say keep it simple stupid right. lets see a 450hp 383na or a twin turbo supra at 450hp i think the small block has more potential.

Bob Wooten

Paul,

you mean you have to wait for someone in a little import to come along? i get it every day. had some dope in a little BMW (318i, i think) want to play on the freeway @ 70. HELLO, is anyone home? stroker, 70 mpg, can you say im into the power band? get a clue!!

if you need someone to kick i got a ton here on the left coast i would love to send your way!!

BW

------------------
Bob Wooten
r71chevy@earthlink.net
www.r71camaro.homestead.com

88305tpiT/A

iTrader: (2)

great topic guys.
some interesting comparisons here.

the way I see it the disparity between modern turbo or NA imports and domestic small blocks comes down to two things.

valvetrain and RPMs.

if gm or ford built their new (or even gen 1) small blocks with 4 valves per cylinder and able to rev as high ( make power ) as an import like a supra or RX7 (dont RX7s see 8000?) most of the production cars they put them in would see 11s or 10s from the factory.
all the extras and forged parts the imports have are to build RPM capability or to improve valve timing/efficiency.
if GM decides to start building V8s more like ferrari or BMW does, then there would be no topic here or it would be replaced by something like
"man these imports are SLOW"

Kevin G

Considering both of those cars you mentioned are forced induction, and your trying to compare them to N/A GM motors?? Problem with most high revving foreign motors, is they have no torque, and need the **** revved out of them to make good power.
GM has a damn good thing going with the pushrod motors. They make excellent power, incredible torque and get better fuel economy now outof the LS1 than some foreign cars with half the displacement. These motors are cheaper to build also, and have less moving parts, easier to work on,and less wear for not having to turn 7-8 grand to make power.

GM did mess with the OHC smallblock with the LT-5 motor.. I think it was rated at 405 h.p. It just cost a ton to make. So I guess I can see yor point if GM went this route with an LS1, it would be evil for sure.

I am personally hopeing that the pushrod motor isnt killed off at GM, but one day that might happen.

Bob Wooten

Arent the new Ford modular motors OHC? Not being big on Fords, i am not sure but i recall seeing a Cobra & saying wow those heads are enormous & someone commenting on them being OHC & that certainly would explain it.

BW

------------------
Bob Wooten
r71chevy@earthlink.net
www.r71camaro.homestead.com

Kevin G

Yep, Ford ditched the 5.0 302 for a 4.6 modular motor... The pushrod motors are slowly dying out.

Bob Wooten

So maybe GM needs to get with the program. anyone seen the Coats rotary valve heads? http://www.coatesengine.com/ this looks promising from a purely eng perspective (although cost a ton). no cam, pushrods, lifters, valves springs etc. it is quite amazing how high you can spin a motor w/o any valve train.

I think that comp cams or some other cam company quoted that a motor w/o any pistons or con rods running @ 2000 rpm generates enough heat that the "motor" runs @ 150 or 160 Deg F. the article showed thier test stand that cycle tested springs & they spun the engine with an elect motor. they had to put a cooling system into the motor cause it got so hot. this is w/o any cyls firing. just spinning a cam & moving valves. this says a ton.

w/o any doubt the weak link in the standard V8 is the valve train. how much money do we spend on high $ parts so that it does not fail?

my 2c
BW


------------------
Bob Wooten
r71chevy@earthlink.net
www.r71camaro.homestead.com

paul_huryk

I do agree with the fact that pushrod motors are dying out, Ford already is using them in all V8 production cars now. GM, on the other hand is more interested in keeping its old, behind the times ways with pushrod motors. I will say the LS1 is one hell of a motor from a technology and power perspective, but its still a pushrod engine, and less people will want one in the future (especially in a $30k plus car). I don't really think much of the OHC motors either-they have been around since the 1920's in one form or another, so it ain't as hi-tech as you think (to the ricers in attendance). I do like the Coates rotary valve head idea, but it has a lot of drawbacks. Maybe for racing if a sactioning body doesn't exclude it before its tried.

I think the future of internal combustion engines lies within turbine motors. They make great power and weigh a lot less and can get decent mileage. The problem is the fact that all car manufacturers (except Chrysler in its turbine show car) could care less.

I compare the current crankshaft motors (all car and truck engines built now) to a human runner - very strong, but has too much mass in the wrong places (human has too much muscle and weight on the legs; engine rotating assembly has too much weight with crank, rods, and pistons). On the other hand I compare the turbine motor to a Gazelle or Cheetah, (animals that have almost no leg muscle as its on the body instead, keeping weight low; and the turbine not having to twist any sort of weight to spin).


If you can just find a way to get a turbine motor to not be so polluting, it would be a good choice. They do use them for power generators, tanks, and helicopters, so they must be reliable by now.

Just my 2 cents.

------------------
Paul Huryk, billionare in training.
Monkey Guy Racing
Almost part of the moderately infamous NJ in-your-face all goomba crew

Do it right the first time.

Paul's home page

1985 IROC LG4 POS Best: 15.20s at 92.1mph
1984 Camaro 350 LG4 Best: 12.21s at 121.7mph

The smart person pays for something today so that more is received tomorrow.
The ignorant person gets something today and hopes to have enough money to pay for it tomorrow.

Bob Wooten

I agree about the turbine but if we cant get the general to even look @ OHC or rotary valves, how big would the tubine mountain for them to climb?

If i am not mistaken the Turbine is much more efficient than the reciprocateing internal combustion engine. I would think that if you made the engine small enough that it would likely be a more cost effective engine to run.

there was a guy on PBS that put one into a Hundae or something & ran it @ Willow springs raceway (here in CA). They were predicting 70 mpg or something equally high. I think though they blew it up before they had a chance to show it off.

Still like the rotary valve thing though. had i had enough dough (dont happen to have any laying around doing nothing you know), i would have to have a set, just to play with it. I would love to spin my stroker to 15K or so. wouldent it be cool to out rev the cpu before the motor?

BW

------------------
Bob Wooten
r71chevy@earthlink.net
www.r71camaro.homestead.com

Bob Wooten

One more thing i forgot to mention. I would totaly agree that the LS1 is a long way away from the 70 LT1 that came in my car, but throw the rotary valve onto the same head or use electro-hydrolic actuators for Vavles & now you have something trick.

I cant imagine that after some period of time the OHC would not pay for itself. I can only imagine that Ford has done so by now. if that were not the case they would have dropped it & gone back to push rods.

I think that the General is going to have to get on the stick. Look @ the F body. I dont know what todays rumor is but it sure does look like it is history. sad but true. when your competitor sells over twice the volume of cars in the market you are gonna have to shut the doors.

BW

------------------
Bob Wooten
r71chevy@earthlink.net
www.r71camaro.homestead.com

askulte

Huge drawback to turbine is that they cannot accelerate the way folks are used to. It takes time to accelerate/decelerate the turbine from 40,000 to 100,000 rpms down to 40,000 instantly every time you go through a gear. The mfg's also can't afford to put $50k engines in every car (yes I know, economies of scale once people start...). The small turbines found in general aviation engines generally start at over $200k.

Compared to 4 valve OHC engines, pushrods are not as elegant. The point is that they flat out work. Compare the LS1 from a hp standpoint to Ford's OHC offerings. <shrug> The pushrod engines are simpler and cheaper to manufacture, and are reliable. GM likes that. Hydraulic valvetrains can be forced to about 6500 rpms, but the limiting rpm for the bottom end is generally limited by the loads the heavy reciprocating assembly puts on the rods.

The forces increase with a squaqred relationship to rpms - I put together an excel spreadsheet that models the acceleration forces on the piston and rods. Using a 640g heavy piston/pin and 200 gram small end on a 355 with 5.7" rods gives you 72g's on the piston and is 4297 lbs of force on the rods. Increase the rpm to 7500 and you're at 112.5g's amd 6714 lbs.

Oh yeah - running the same combo at 6k on a 383 (3.75" instead of 3.48" crank) puts you at an extra 500 lbs of force on the rods.

Andris, who enjoys GM's crude pushrod engines that put out 350 hp stock better than Ford's OHC's that put out 100 less...

PS - I think this has gotten way off topic.

PPS - Adding boost/nitrous produces much less stress on the rotating assembly than rpms.

Kevin G

I dont know much about the rotary valves, but I do know the rotary engines from Mazda had problems meeting emisions standards, and that is why they dont make them any more. I thought I heard the same problem for these rotary valve setup you guys mentioned.
Antother idea that GM and others have looked into is the use of soleniods controlled valve operation, and totally ditch the cam. They used this in a NorthStar motor with great results.

Hurley

As a former empaoyee of Alamo Autosports here in texas, and being presesnt at many dyno days, I feel i can also add to this thread. The problem with supra's is that the owners do not think like a well rounded racer(90% of the time). They only want al ot of power and dont care about much else(i.e. suspension aerodymanics) Those cars make a buttload of power but only at 6500 rpms. and when they do it is impossible to fit appropriate sized slicks out back because the rotors are too big and the slicks will not fit. Alot of technology went into these cars and were not even considered to be a drag car, hence the butchering those cars do from a roll. On a side note, a single turbo beat me on my R6 from a 40 punch, but not badly. Anyways, 300zx's are even harder to make "track" fast because of the HICAS system on the rear suspension. All in all, if you are going to be smart about it, pick a domestic car(camaro) to drag race, buy a supra to be a pimp in. BTW, i'm not disagreeing with dragging a supra, i'm just saying that they cost ALOT of money in labor and parts to make fast, and God forbid something break!! Ouch! Anyways, race what you like, I just like to be smart about it.

------------------
Am looking to swap my 383 into a 90 or 92 camaro tpi

bottledpower

if you decide to build a supercharged 350 i have a set of TRW forged standard bore 21cc dished supercharger pistons pressed on pink rods with low time on them. ill let them go for a steal

paul_huryk

A Supra ain't a pimp ride, a Fleetwood Brougham with spokes, vinyl roof, rear air shocks, tint, andd chrome ladies on the grill is a pimp ride.

All kidding aside, the Supra defintely isn't a drag car, its a competitor to the Corvette, RX7, 300ZX, and 3000GT. I remember the Supra being close to $50k when they were new, a lot of $$$ for a Toyota.

The really funny part about ricers in general is that they think all Jap cars are drag cars, which includes everything from Supras to Civics to Galants to Camrys. Too bad only the RX7, 300ZX, Supra, and 3000GT are fast, and they all were at least $35k new a few years ago. I would rather spend the $20k for a mint Turbo TA, throw a few good parts into it and roast everything that turns up at import drag races, including most of the trailered race rice mobiles. If that ain't enough, throw a twin turbo 420 in a Corvette (more underhood space to stick those turbos) and then give the ricers a telescope to see your taillights.

The same goes for that $150k overpriced car from from Stuttgart, although Dodge has a $75k car that does the trick.



------------------
Paul Huryk, billionare in training.
Monkey Guy Racing
Almost part of the moderately infamous NJ in-your-face all goomba crew

Do it right the first time.

Paul's home page

1985 IROC LG4 POS Best: 15.20s at 92.1mph
1984 Camaro 350 LG4 Best: 12.21s at 121.7mph

The smart person pays for something today so that more is received tomorrow.
The ignorant person gets something today and hopes to have enough money to pay for it tomorrow.

mtx28

yea... thats what i get a kick out of. a good friend of mine loves rx-7s like i love camaros.. he insists that no camaro (within reason) could beat a turbo (all of the 90's models are turbo's) Rx-7... i'd have a third gen f-body any day, spend a 3rd of the amount of money on it, and run circles around the rx-7 all day

paul_huryk

mtx28,

People like that kill me in the worst way. Not only are they full of attitude, but they don't know **** about cars. Obviously idiots like that are insecure and need to tell people how great it is because its theirs. Way back when I would walk up to those fools and start trouble, now I go up to them and ask them if they can guess how fast my car is from looking at it. When they say no and then say that their "car" will beat it. I then say sure, lets race and they always give some excuse like: my clutch is slipping, or I got an exhaust leak, or I have street tires... I worry more about some guy standing there like a bump on a log not saying anything, you know the guys that scope out everything and then make a move-the people who know a lot about what makes a car fast and how to spot it.

------------------
Paul Huryk, billionare in training.
Monkey Guy Racing
Almost part of the moderately infamous NJ in-your-face all goomba crew

Do it right the first time.

Paul's home page

1985 IROC LG4 POS Best: 15.20s at 92.1mph
1984 Camaro 350 LG4 Best: 12.21s at 121.7mph

The smart person pays for something today so that more is received tomorrow.
The ignorant person gets something today and hopes to have enough money to pay for it tomorrow.

mwright1129

Funny thing about those "import people"- they go on and on about how great their cars are, criticize Chevy fans for having larger engines (god forbid we don't all enjoy 4 cyl. tin cans ), but that is only after they filled it w/ aftermarket this and that, when they know damn well it's just a POS stock.

And maybe it's just a pet peeve of mine, but I'm not an aftermarket addict.

z28z34man

back from the dead a

Elliott S.

waaay back from the dead, however someone mentioned that no GM engine would run in the 8's on a stock bottom end. It hasnt happened yet, but it might this fall on a FWD v6. The ZZPerformance built a turbo car last year that went mid to high 9s after I debuted late last season. With a bunch of bugs fixed from last season, they are aiming for 8's this season with a stock lower end. No series 2 or 3 lower end has ever broken from high HP levels, only from too much KR.