junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

As I increased the boost I had to keep pulling timing and the IATs were going up more than I liked. The extra HP from more boost wasn't worth the gains due to the IATs and low timing. I think I can put the timing back in with a 50/50 water/alky inject. Then the extra boost will make more of an impact. If the trans. blows then I will have to start looking at the 427 ECM code some more because I have a 4L80E as a replacement for the TH350. Cool, with the 3.08 gears and the .75 overdrive ratio it comes out to 2.31 gears. Redline in overdrive at 200 MPH. Not like that will ever happen, but the highway cruise MPG should be great with a touch of lean burn.

That is pretty much how I learned. Free bikes at the dump are great for learning to mix & match parts on.

With either the MS or the 730 ECM it sounds like you need the DIS setup no matter what. I run a V8 1995 LT1 intake (optispark) that I put a distributer boss on for the dizzy. I got the idea here at TGO. Once you get the reluctor/wheel figured out the ECM re-pin shouldn't be that bad. I can across a readable 1989 Pontiac 3.1 turbo diagram. I can probably help make a ECM pin-swap list for the 727 ECM to 730 ECM. The Willem programmer for doing GM ECM chip tuning should be here late this week. I will post how it works out.

EDIT: You ask about spool time before. I did a 5 mph roll at 1200 RPM in first gear and did a quick full throttle hit. MAP sensor went to 100 KPA (peak non-boost) at 1800 RPM, then stayed there until 2800 RPM where it was at .5 PSI. I let it spin the tires until 4500 RPM where it was at 9 PSI. I let off....I hate wasting tires. That was all from the ALDL datalog.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

The Willem Enhanced dual powered programmer arrived today. It took about 15 minutes of reading the manual and installing the software. Another 20 minutes to figure out the the software confirming jumper settings for the SST 27SF512 erase. I had to use a 12V center positive wall transformer I had here off of something to get the 12V for the 27SF512 erase and program. I then erased, programmed, and verified several chips multiple times using the offset feature of the software. It puts the ECM bin starting in the middle of the chip where the ECM wants it. The programmer worked properly every time.
Overall, it took about 1.5 hours along with reading more docs after to see what else it programs. Total cost was $45+shipping for the programmer and the cables it came with, $10+shipping for 5 SST 27SF512 chips, a 12V DC wall transformer (free) from a printer I think.
Total was around $75 with shipping and a wall transformer at Wal-mart is probably $10. The ECM bins were created using TunerPro (freeware). The SST 27SF512 chips can be used in the GM 165 ECM, 730 ECM, 749 ECM, 427 ECM, along with many others.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

I took the car to the track with the 3.08 gears in it. Boost was at 8 PSI. IATs started at 135* F and climbed up to 190* F at 8 PSI. Ambient temp. was 70-75* F. 93 octane pump gas. Trap RPM was 5100.

The run was 2.20 secs for the 60 foot with the 5 year old Cooper tires on it (20 PSI). ET was 13.00 @ 107.3 MPH. It gained 2 MPH. The ALDL datalog showed that I took off the line and ramped the TPS to 50% and held it there for 2 secs to hook and then went 100% without tire spin.

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

i didnt read the whole thread yet so i gota ask is this intercooled?

last time i had my car out and dataloged it was 89*F outside and i was running 7 psi my air temps never went over 129*F under full boost/load

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

No intercooler.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

I see some mention of me here.

As far as using the 7730 and TGP code, I didn't have to re-wire the ECM at all, unless you count, swapping the entire harness into a vehcile that was never meant to accapt it. The pinout I used was that of the stock 7730 in a 1988 Cavalier (donor harness). The PROM I used was a V6 MEMCAL, that had been programmed with stock TGP code. It ran decent, not ideal, but I believe at least part of that was due to my use on a manual tranny where as the stock code called for an automatic. At the time I didn't have any tuning equipment and tuning software was not as readily available or as good as what is available now.
The pinout of the 7727 and 7730 is completly different, due to the 7727 using 4 connectors vs the 7730's 3, so cross referncing pins is difficult. I started to map it out back then, but would have required reverse engineering both ECMs back to the basic caircuits, not a small task. Also in stock form the 7730 doesn't have a usable output for the wastegate control, this might be a code change needed. There is a mythical pin on the 7730 that is supposed to be able to work the wastegate solenoid, but when ever the question is asked of the people who say there is a pin, where that pin is, I either get blank looks, some bullshit answer of needing to look it up again, at which point there is no responce, or some seeming random pin number, that almost no one agrees on.

It is for some of the above reasons, and some others not mentioned, I am going to swap to a 7749, since I have a couple, and would like to start with the $58 code and will probably switch over to the $59 code. To get the new engine running though, I will probably start with the TGP code that has been modified for manual trans, since things like the EGR control, DIS (Crank refernce angle), etc will all be proper or very close. I may even have to start with a stock genII 2.8 code to get it to fire, in a 7730. I'll decide when the time comes.

Stock TGP code is no where near perfect when it comes to running one of these hybrids. Though the genII spark map seems to work well with the 3500, which may work well with a hybrid using the 3500 top end, I suspect it's partly due to the flow charactiscs of the engine that mathecs it better than the smaller 3400, or 3100. No one has built a 3500 hybrid using genI or II block that I am aware of, or a boosted one at that.

I had considered keeping my hybrid and just upgrading the top end, but decided that using the complete 3500 made more sense for me, due to some upgrades the 3500 block itself has.

I just got my Willems burner working last night, I haven't hooked it up since I got a few a months ago, since I got a Laptop on the weekend ($90 for the laptop and about $6 the Bios battery, which I modified to accept an easier replacement, even my laptop is modified Still need a good power battery though.) I had to change the LPT port settings in the Bios to get it to connect, took me about half an hour or so. I'm not that proficiant when it comes to computers, though I am learning. I read a couple chips that I for some reason had sitting on my Microwave cart, and read them fine.

I tried looking through the thread, I didn't see it. Where did you get the 42 lbs/hr injectors from? Are they from a Lightning?

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like it had a soldered in BIOS battery and you replaced it with a socket & battery?
What chips are you using 27SF512? If so, make sure you follow the instructions for erasing & programming. I read so many posts about people not being able to erase........due to having either the wrong programmer or not setting it up right.

My 42 lb/hrs are Ford Lightning green tops (Ford Motorsports). Not sure what Firstfirebird is running.

As for the ECM and engine setup, I have a 727 to 730 pin swap list around here somewhere. I hear ya on the magical pin for WG control. There are a lot of myths about 730 to 749 ECM swaps also. The 730 ECM has a lot of unused pins that you can use if you mess with the code.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, no intercooler or water/alky. I have a water/alky kit sitting here that I am going to try and install this weekend. Those hot IATs are going to rattle it to death at the track if I don't. I also have the itch to crank up the boost so I need to get the spray setup installed. I am going with an M10 nozzle (10 GPH) and ShurFlo 150 PSI pump that is PWM controlled with the 730 ECM I run. It should be interesting. I have a 3-D table that is pump_duty_cycle vs. RPM vs. MAP.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Currently have 24# Denso blue tops from a Mustang.

Do you mean I am pioneering something? I have been just copying other people's setups. The only reason I even got the 3500 top is because I couldn't pass up $300, and included rockers (even though I am going to be using 1.7 Ford rockers). Now I need to get some of these extra parts I have up for sale to help fund some things. There is no aftermarket for the 3500 yet and have to buy the upper gasket kit from GM, so things got a little more complicated recently. The 75mm TB I have is going to be a lot easier to adapt to the 3500 UIM, though, since it came with a 65mm stock.

I traded the 3400 heads for a ported/rebuilt Eaton M90, and the LIM I got from you (Six Shooter) for 3400 pistons (I think I'm getting the rods too), and have no idea what I am going to do with the S/C?

A lot of guys have/putting 3400 tops in their f-bodys, but seem to shy away from the 3500 top end. The 4th gen guys think have a clearance problem with the 3500 plenum, but I can't see why. I have posted several pics of the 2.8, 3.1, 3400 and 3500 top ends, and have measured them. The only point that is any higher on the 3500 is the brake booster port, but it is on the lowest point of the UIM, and only protrudes about 1/2" above there.

Junk, I'm glad to see you got some track times! 13 on street tires is not bad, you are at least a second faster than my friend's lightly modded 350 TPI. I'm concerned I'm not going to have the car to support the new motor. I'm hoping to get at least 250 N/A, and would be thrilled to see 500 (should be attainable at 15-20psig) but I don't have the car to support it at the moment, not even posi .

I got the keys to my friends CNC shop, and the possabilities are endless there, I'm helping him start-up and am going to be working there in the evenings running production parts (same guy who made the flanges when you told me I was "spoiled" :lol), and he said as long as the big machines are pushing parts, I have full reign . We have 2 CNC lathes. One is 4axis with a 4axis mill head, mill/lathe combo with a 12" chuck and live tooling, the other is a small ops machine. We also have two CNC mills, one is a manual with CNC controls added, the other is a full CNC. Then we have two manual mills, one full size, the other table-top (that's going in my garage in a few mos, woot). We also have other varios tools, like diamond grinders, surface grinders, line welders, compressors, chops saws, MIG, and should be getting a TIG and sand/media blaster soon. He also is a tool/die maker, and has been in the biz for 30yrs when he decided he wanted to open shop again (had a shop ing VA, but has been working for other people for the last 12yrs). I have a thread in the v6 section all about it, and will be updating soon with pics of the new machines...
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/4...bricators.html

Let me know if I can help with anything .

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

any reason why u are going alky vs air to air intercooler???
i would imagine an intercooler would do a much better job then the alky alone

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Yes, FirstFirebird, you are in essence pioneering a swap, just like I am with swapping the entire 3500 into my truck. BTW I got my entire 3500 for $325 CDN, at the time that was like $245ish USD! :P :P :P

Even if that brake booster port is too tall, it could be cut off, the resulting hole filled in and a booster port added to the rear (end?) of the plenum. Just have to be creative. I think too many people look for strictly bolt on items, and shy away from some mild custom work.

Yes, junkcltr, I added a socket to the BIOS battery holder, which wasn't soldered to the mother board, it was a plug in deal, but the wires were spot welded to the battery originally, and when I tried soldering to a battery (CR2032), all it did was blow up the battery, which I had suspected might happen, so then I came up with the plan for the socket.
So far I'm not using using any chips. I was just reading from a couple stock PROMs to verify that it works and learn a bit about how to use it.

Eventually I want to use a AM29FO40B for mutiple bins and the GX adaptor with the EX switch from Moates to have at least 8 bins possible to switch between, for different grades of fuel, different boost levels, e-test, anti-theft mode, etc. For now I will be using an Ostrich (should be here any day now), and 27C512 chips, because I can get them locally for about $5 each. I don't want to leave the Ostrich in there indefinatly. I also need to find some chips to use with my friends 7747 ECM, since I'll be starting a tune on that next week, once I get the Ostrich and I have my ALDL cable built, I have all of the parts, just need to lay it out and solder it all up. Eventually I'll get a WBO2, but I can't afford it at this point, the Ostrich wasn't really planned, but since there was a GP on it, that ends Saturday (Aug 18), I decided to get in on it.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

If I had a tubular k-member, the full 3500 swap would be in progress instead . A guy from 60*v6 (Joseph Upson) was selling one on e-bay, and is local pick-up only, so the price was started at $350 and auction ended with no bidders. He is less than 4hrs from me , that is $50 less than I am paying for the 3.4 shortblock delivered. It is already painted all pretty and everything.








Sorry to pirate you, Junk, but that is how I learned a lot from you (pirating others' threads )

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

The main reason is laziness. I almost have the turbo truck running and I want to spend time on finishing it up. That rig has IATs for both turbos, an IAT at the TB, exhaust pressure sensors, ECM controlled water/alky injection, a 900-1200 HP intercooler, etc. All hooked up to a stock worn out 305ci TPI engine with 45 trim T3s on it. It is my new turbo information setup.

I have a 24"x12"x4.25" IC air to air collecting dust waiting to be installed, but the fab time will be longer than the racing season around here. It is easier to put the water/alky setup on it for now. Once the truck is done the Camaro is getting a make-over. Either a HX55 or a S400 is going on it this winter along with the IC. Both require fabbing a new radiator support and I have been thinking of making out of aluminum which takes a long time.

I would like to see mid 12's on non-slick street tires ($75 each) and water/alky. I looked over the ALDL datalogs again and that 2 sec of 50% TPS off the line to get the tires to hook really bites. The burnout showed that boost came in at 2800 RPM.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Doing something different is great. One of the many good things I found around here was the LT1 intake mod. for the old V8 blocks. Keep up the good work.


Way over my head when it comes to V6 stuff, but I would like to swap out some V8s for V6s in the future. The weight reduction and space is the main reason.

I have done a few soldered battery removals and put in sockets too. The batterys with the welded tabs are a special order from Digikey, Mouser, etc usually. I have soldered in new 2032 with welded tabs. I wonder if you had the polarity wrong to make it blow up? If you have trouble programming chips.....post it. I have read, erased, and programmed a bunch fo 27SF512s now and it always goes smoothly. The process is more involved than the AT29C256 chips.

I am not a big fan of multiple bins. I run one bin and let the code adjust the tune according to what the sensors are seeing. Low octane retards timing. Eventually, I will get to the wastegates controlled by the ECM too. A lot of people like multiple bins, but one always seems to work for me. I have emulators but mainly tune by burning chips because it slows me down so that I document the changes. Too bad the DIY-WBO2 isn't available anymore. I built mine back in early 2005 and it works flawlessly. Messing with ECM is like fabbing up stuff. It never ends, there is always something that you can change and make better.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

I hate when I come across a better deal after I just bought something. That one looks sharp, but it is the insides that matter.

Pirating is good. It works out great when you search for something and it brings you to a thread. You start reading it and come across all kinds of other stuff with new info. that you weren't looking for. A while ago we were talking about coil & tach problems here too. I personally get to learn about the V6 stuff which I know nothing about.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Thanks

I'll see if I can find a picture later of what we are talking about, this would actually apply to any engine, that had something hanging off of it that could be relocated.
Come to the dark side and see what a V6 really can do.


No, it was just the heat, I didn't have a heatsink attached to the battery, and since I was heating it way longer than I should have to try and get the solder to stick, it just started to fizzle, this was long before polarity could have been an issue.
I'm sure I'll have some issue somewhere with burning chips, and I will definatly post about it.

Oh this will take a long time to, to set-up each bin, basically it would be like taking all of those bins you have created that each took time and putting them on a single chip with a switcher, this would essentially let me "tune on the fly" without using my laptop to adjust for different conditions, I especially like the idea of an "anti-theft" bin that has a speed limter of about 5 or 10 MPH, so I could pretty much run beside the truck, while the theif is trying to get away. This multi-bin is a long ways off anyway, I need to get the truck together and running to start with a base bin and change it from there.

For the price of the LM-1, I'm just going to order that, I can get it at wholesale, so it would be about the same price as trying to build a DIY WB.

spanners

hey there guys great thread ive been on here for a while searching hard im trying too get the $58 code running on my holden commodore with a buick 3.8 litre v6 which is going to be turboed if i can get it going on this code and its original 1227808 ecu but I have distributorless ignition and am reading that this code is not suited to running dis ignition very well is there some other code that would be better for the disless ignition and sutible for boost or should i adjust this code ive had the car idling but thats as far as ive got so far i just rigged up an ecu test bench and got the Iac working at last.every time i search on the net i end up back here on thirdgen now today i heard that the code from an 88 QUAD 4 should run the disless ignition but does it do boost and does anyone have a bin. any suggestions on any bins to start with apart from the 2bar $5D varient im not a fan of it and want something different with better resolution in the tables cause it never gets into closed loop long and the map is bottomed out at cruize so no deccel timing or anything .thanks in advance

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

$58 code was designed for the 749/730 ECM architecture. The 808/165 architecture is different. There is less I/O. The address map is different. If you have the source then you could change the I/O registers and make the $58 run properly on your 808 ECM. All you need is the $8D hac and the $6E hac to do it. Compare where the inputs & outputs are read/written and swap accordingly. You can't just drop the $58 (dizzy) or $8F (DIS) code in the 808 ECM.
There was a little talk about the 808 with modified aussie around here. Maybe earlier in this thread. Contact 83 Crossfire TA or JoBy. Or search for the code that JoBy posted for the 808 that does 2 Bar boost.

The 730 ECM is more available in the USA. You can probably have one shipped for cheap. The 730 architecture is far superior to the 165/808 design. It is worth the time & money to swap.

pontiakker

great thread! tons of awesome info here.

are there any updates, and does anyone have the pics from junkcltr's original build pics?

thanks!

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

TGO ownership and I had differences on Author rights. I pulled the pics.

If you are interested if pics, send me an email and I will send you some.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

If ya wanted hosted somewhere send em to me. Ill add em to the rest of the pic's I have.

jammin

Hello i am in desparate need. i turbo charged my car and im having problem with tunning.
i have a 7730 ecu and a moates ostrich 2.0 i am triying to load the gmc syclone bin file with my tunnerpro-rt but its not working there is somthing at the top that says no xdf file ??? whats that? please help me.
i.ve sent you this message via e-mail with my e-mail attached please respond.
do you have a xdf file? i dont know what enging your using im using the 3.4l camaro. if your using the same we deffanatly need to talk.
where are the pictures of you car??? id love to see some it sounds awsome.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

You would be better off using the $59 code in your 730 ECM. You can get the bin, XDF, and ADS at www.code59.org.
I am not running a 3.4 liter engine.