junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

I have beening working on the exhaust manifolds and I am at the point of running the oil lines and coolant lines for the two turbos. I have searched but couldn't find any definative answers for a few things.

1) Oil inlet lines: I am tapping off of the block right above the oil filter and am going to run one 5/16" line up the back of the intake to the front by the waterpump. I am teeing off two equal length 1/4" lines from there to each turbo. Does the line size and routing sound right? Is it better to tap off of the top of the block at the rear by the distributor?

2) Oil oulet lines: I am going to make my own turbo outlet plates with 1/2" pipe fittings (steel heater hose fittings). I was going to return the oil to the front of the oil pan above the oil level in the pan. Is it better to angle the pan return fittings slightly upward (vertical) or make them completely horizontal? I have seen that most put them completely horizontal. Or is it better to return into the valve covers? The engine is out so it doesn't matter in terms of difficulty. I would like to do which ever is better for longetivity of the turbos. I can't find any 5/8" oil line on the web. Anyone know where to get it? I don't want to run -AN and braided.

3) Coolant lines: I am going to tap off of the heater hose feed line and return line for both turbos and use 3/8" line for the turbo feed and return line. Is the the best way to do it?

4) Turbo Boost: Both turbos have the actuator set for 5psi of boost. So the intake will see 10psi of boost if I leave the actuators as is. Correct? I would like to set the turbos for 6psi of boost max.

5) PCV valve, fuel pressure regulator, vaccuum lines:
Since the intake is pressurized, will the PCV valve work correctly? Where should it be routed? To one of the turbo inlets?
How about EGR vaccuum and other vaccuum stuff like the fuel regulator? Route to the inlet side of one turbo?
I am going to use the Chevy 749 ECM with 42#/hr injectors so I am leaving the stock fuel regulator.

6) Wastegate: I am using the stock internal wastegates. I would like to use the Chevy Syclone wastegate solenoids to control boost with the computer. I use Tunercat software for tuning. Is there a boost vs. rpm table in the $58 Tunercat file?
Anyone trying running two wastegate solenoids of off the 749 ECM? May need a relay for them??

7) BOV: I planned using stock Bosch Blow off valves that dump back into the turbo inlets. I don't care for the loud aftermarket atmospheric BOVs. Should I run two BOVs to and dump into each turbo inlet? Or should I run one BOV and dump the BOV outlet into each of the two turbos. That sounds better to me.....correct?
What size line to run for the BOV?

Sorry for so many questions. I have searched but could find anything definite. The setup is a 350ci with twin junkyard T3 turbos and re-worked cast iron exhaust manifolds. I am finishing up oven welding the cast iron manifolds with nickel rod this weekend and I am starting on all of the pipe routing next week so I appreciate any info you have on the stuff I asked about.

Thanks,
J

camaro_1983_383

first, you will only have 5lbs of boost. it will not double. your block is already tapped behind the distributor, but this wont flow enough. get a filter relocation kit and run off of that. get a high volume oil pump. return to your pan. if you return to the valve cover, you wont be able to return all of that oil through the drains. sbc are bad enough already for draining oil from the valvetrain. coolant ideas sound good. just save the time and run the bov dump into one inlet. you only need 1 bov, but put it after where the two boost pipes join. the fuel regulator will perform normally, without vacuum, it will give full pressure.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

The 5psi of boost makes sense....I don't know what I was thinking.

I talked to a turbo company about the oil inlet taps and they recommend that I use the top of the block and oil restrictors for the pair of T3 turbos. Why do you say use a oil relocation kit?? Seems like way to much oil.

I plan on using the oil pan to return the spent oil especially after reading about smoking turbos and stuff. It seems like the only correct place to return the oil in my setup to keep the lines vertical.

I think I am going to use the one BOV like you suggested.

Fuel pressure regulator, brake booster, etc will work normally??? Won't the boost blow all of the diaphrams out of that stuff??

89JYturbo

I have a very similar set-up to yours. Seems like ou have a good knowlege base already, which is good to see.

I like your oil plumbing idea (5/16" line teeing off to two 1/4" lines). I used AN-6 line to feed my turbos, but those sizes should give you plenty of oil. I also tapped in just above the filter.

The drains are simple, and yet a common place for mistakes. 95% of oil leaks from a turbocharger are from restricted oil returns. Run the drains down to the pan, with a hose that is as near to vertical as possible, with no kinks or traps (low spots). The drain hose neeeds to be 1/2" dia minimum, which it sounds like you already knew.

One BOV may not completely eliminate compressor surge, but that would be no big deal (at only 5psi of boost, compressor surge won't hurt the turbo in 50 years).

You shouldn't have any problems with your brake booster or other vacuum accessories, including the FPR. I would suggest eliminating the PCV system though, as the valve will probably leak a little under boost, causing the crankcase to be pressureized slightly. This can cause the engine seals to leak, as well as the turbo (the oil won't drain well into a pressurized crankcase). I believe there are some positive sealing PCV valves for the Buick GN crowd, but I just ran external valve cover breathers. You could also just vent the crankcase into the turbo compressor inlet plumbing and eliminate the seperate breather filters.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Thanks, all good info.

I bought some -10AN male weld-in steel bungs from Speedway motors for the oil drains. I am making my own plate for the turbo drain with one -10AN bung welded on it. I then use straight -10AN hose ends connected to 18" of hose to the oil pan.
The oil pan has 3/4" pipe weld to it the comes out as vertical as possible to clear the block and then turns totally vertical with an -10AN bung welded to the end of it. The turbos sit on the very front of the exhaust manifolds so the hoses are pretty much vertical. This should work out decent I think.

I am doing the oil inlet lines the same as described before.

I changed how I am doing the coolant lines. I am using the water pump 1/2" NPT hole and installing a Tee of of it with reducers to 3/8" steel lines feeding each turbo. The returns are going into the thermostat box (using modified LT1 intake).

I am going to try using just one Porsche BOV to start off with and watch for surge. I will be logging data so I can look for spots where the TPS (throttle) goes closed under full boost and I can see what the MAP sensor sees for over-boost/surge.

I was thinking that I would run one 3/8" steel line from the PCV on one valve cover to one of the turbo inlets (non-pressure side) and a breather on the other valve cover.

I was wondering about the FPR, vaccuum stuff, etc because I was thinking that I would have to run that to a turbo inlet, but then it doesn't seem right. I will check out the GN stuff.

Good project so far. It forced me to learn to stick weld with Nickel rod. I have the passenger 3" downpipe made but I am still in the middle of making the driver's side downpipe. I couldn't fit 3" so I am using two 2.25" pipes so that I can clear the manifold and steering rod. It is a real pain but I wanted it to flow as good as a 3" pipe. Yeah, the manifolds don't flow that great compared to the exhaust outlets but I figured it is better to have as much flow on the outlet in case I feel like making headers this winter.

I cut 3" by 1.75" holes in the L89 manifolds and welded the T3 boxes onto that. I used two left side manifolds due to the funky bolt pattern on the passenger side manifold. It worked out well. Hopefully, they don't crack. I heated them to 400 degrees to do all of the welding and it was not that fun. They better not crack.

89JYturbo

What is AN-10 in inches? It is over 1/2" ID, correct? Drains sound great as long as the -10 fittings are over 1/2".

For the PCV valve to work, you need manifold vacuum, not just the connected to the intake tube. Either go straight from the valve covers to the compressor intake tube with breather hoses (no valves), or just install valve cover breathers.

If you do want to retain the PCV, then use the positive sealing PCV valve and connect it to the stock location on the intake manifold (the other valve cover would then need a breather filter, or have it connect to one of your turbo inltet tubes).

The FPR and other vacuum accessories need to see manifold vacuum. Unless your air filters or plumbing are extremely restrictive, there will be no vacuum in the intake tract until after the throttle plate. Just hook the vacuum accessories up like normal, and you will be fine. The only exception I can think of is the EVAP emissions vent hose- you should put a check valve in that line to prevent from pressurizing the fuel tank. I don't have that emissions feature, and I'm betting you don't either.

You got to post some pics of your progress. Sounds like your manifolds are exactly like mine. I also ran into the tight clearance issue on the LH down-pipe.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

The hole diameter of the -10AN hose and the fittings measure 9/16" so they should be OK.
I think I am going to go with the Buick PCV and route it as stock.
I have to ditch the Purge Canister because I want to install one of the air breathers there. I had a 3.5" U-bend and a K&N 6" by 9" air filter with 3.5" hole lying around so I am going to use two of these. One where the purge can was and one where the battery was. I am going to make some sheet metal boxes to cover them and pull cool air from under the front of the car.

The manifolds are very similiar to the picture you posted. Mine sit more forward and away from the engine. I did this so that I can pull the valve covers off without needing to remove the turbos. The passenger side was very tight and the box was quite complex to make. It took an entire day to make the plates out of 1/4" steel and weld it, grind it and port it with a carbide burr. I did take some pictures that I will try to post this weekend. They are 1/2 Megabytes each so I can't post them as is. I will figure out how to reduce them this weekend.

I looked at the turbos and it looks like the compressor side has a paper gasket. I will try to clean them good before I rotate the center sections. Finished making the driver's side two 2.25" to 3" downpipe tonight. I just need to make the collectors where the three pipes meet.

Thanks for the help on this stuff. It is my first turbo install so the learning curve is very steep right now.

I am putting in a new camshaft since I have the engine out and was wondering about the initial break-in. I am running the 1990 speed density 730 computer with a wideband O2 and it was dialed in pretty good. I am going with the Syclone 749 ECM code and have to start over from scratch.

For the initial cam break-in I was thinking to do one of two things.
1) install everything including the complete turbos and Syclone ECM and code set for a V8 and wire the wastegates completely open. Do the 15 minute revved up break-in and hook the wastegates up and tune the engine as usual.

2) install everything including the complete turbos but still use the 730 ECM with N/A speed density code. I would disconnect the turbo compressor tubes to the intake manifold and let them pump to free air. Is that an OK thing to do??

What sounds like the better option?

Thanks,
J

89JYturbo

I would probably just run your 730 for the break-in just to make sure it goes smoothly. Thats not the time to be playing around with the tune. Is it a roller cam?

Yes, you can run the engine with the turbo charge tubes disconnected, but I wouldn't drive it. You could easily over speed the turbos if you drove it without the charge tubes connected. But just to run it up to 2500 with no load won't be a problem, because you won't have enough exhaust energy to overspeed the turbos (not enough load on the engine). You could remove the WG actuators and wire the WG valves open just to be safe, if you wanted to.

Feel free to email me the pics. I can shrink them down and post them up for you.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

I was learning toward using the 730 ECM so that is good to hear. I will probably richen the fuel table by 10% just to be on the safe side. Also, wire the wastegates open.
Here is a picture of the manifolds. I will post some rough fitting/piping pics tomorrow.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

After looking at the driver's side downpipe tonight I decided to ditch it and use the 3" mandrel bend pipe that came in today. It worked out perfectly. I am notched the pipe for the exhaust manifold and steering rod. I am making the pipe wider in that spot so that I still have the same area as a 3" pipe.

Here is a picture of everything tacked together.

89JYturbo

Looking good. That doesn't appear to be a third-gen F-body though. What kind of car is that?

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Second Gen.

I finished making the driver's side downpipe out of 3" pipe tonight. I added material to make it oval to clear the exhaust manifold and the steering rod. It worked out much better than the two 2.25" pipes I made a few days ago. The area is slightly greater than a 3" pipe and it extends into the back side of a radius so the flow should be about the same as circular 3".

I am rotating the center sections tomorrow. I tried to loosen the turbine bolts to see what I had to deal with. Looks like they will need some heat applied to them.

Silicone couplers came into today so I can finish the compressor to intake pipes this weekend. It is going well so far.

Enjoyed it so much that I bought two SAAB turbos today for the Pick-up truck. Imagine the snow I can push with a couple of T3's with 45 trim. Looks like a fall project at this rate.

Thanks again for the help.
J