intercooler configurations with vortech
#1
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Car: '89 iroc
Engine: 383 mini-ram
Transmission: 700r4
intercooler configurations with vortech
just wondering what types of intercooler/tubing configurations people are running with vortech's that will fit under a stock hood? thanks
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Car: 1992 B4C 1LE
Engine: Proaction 412, Accel singleplane
Transmission: built 700R4 w/custom converter
Axle/Gears: stock w/later 4th gen torsen pos
there is a member here that is doing it. he used the ATI intercooler setop with a Vortech S-trim and bracket. Vortech non-intercooled boost is supposedly cooler so the intercooler has less work to do to begin with (cooler final air charge).
Last edited by B4Ctom1; 01-28-2004 at 09:23 PM.
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Car: 1992 B4C 1LE
Engine: Proaction 412, Accel singleplane
Transmission: built 700R4 w/custom converter
Axle/Gears: stock w/later 4th gen torsen pos
and here is one with the ATI blower
Last edited by B4Ctom1; 01-28-2004 at 09:23 PM.
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Car: 1992 B4C 1LE
Engine: Proaction 412, Accel singleplane
Transmission: built 700R4 w/custom converter
Axle/Gears: stock w/later 4th gen torsen pos
some of the Vortech head units can be had with an outlet just like the vortech that might result in a cooler final product but could interfere with the cool air sucting used with the vortech
#5
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Car: '89 iroc
Engine: 383 mini-ram
Transmission: 700r4
so if i wanted to run a T or YS Trim and make around 15-18psi, I would need something to cool the motor inlet temp's down, in addition to a timing retard, wouldn't I?
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Car: 1992 B4C 1LE
Engine: Proaction 412, Accel singleplane
Transmission: built 700R4 w/custom converter
Axle/Gears: stock w/later 4th gen torsen pos
The timing retard doesnt cool inlet temps bt with pressures like that low compression and race fuel might be explored, intercooling and water, alcohol, or water/alcohol injection might also be looked into.
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Car: 1992 B4C 1LE
Engine: Proaction 412, Accel singleplane
Transmission: built 700R4 w/custom converter
Axle/Gears: stock w/later 4th gen torsen pos
first you order a whole ATI procharger intercooler kit (I suggest either the twin intercooled option or the 3 core), then you order a Vortech kit. There are no "vortech intercooled kits"
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Car: '88 Formula, '94 Corvette, '95 Bird
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You need a curved discharge vortech blower. You can't do it with the straight discharge, which is standard on the fbody kit.
-- Joe
-- Joe
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Car: '88 Formula, '94 Corvette, '95 Bird
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Not easily. I investigated this route and finally ditched the idea and went with a water/alky injection setup.
Plus I don't get the cons of boost loss. Sure you'll get cooler charge out of it, but you'll loose 1-3psi of boost - and your compressor will still be working as hard. With the water/alky injection, you keep your boost, you cool stuff down and prevenet detonation and can run more timing.
-- Joe
Plus I don't get the cons of boost loss. Sure you'll get cooler charge out of it, but you'll loose 1-3psi of boost - and your compressor will still be working as hard. With the water/alky injection, you keep your boost, you cool stuff down and prevenet detonation and can run more timing.
-- Joe
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Car: 1992 B4C 1LE
Engine: Proaction 412, Accel singleplane
Transmission: built 700R4 w/custom converter
Axle/Gears: stock w/later 4th gen torsen pos
yeah there is no way to add one like the guy already did above
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Car: '88 Formula, '94 Corvette, '95 Bird
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Axle/Gears: 3.42, Dana44 3.45, 3.23
yeah there is no way to add one like the guy already did above
I discussed this with you in IRC the other day. You would need a curved discharge vortech, like in the picture you posted. NOT like the one he has, or I have in the picture he posted. So after you spend $1900 on a new compressor, and another $1500 or so on the IC setup you might as well hang yourself for not just buying an ATI to begin with.
Maybe vortech might be nice and change the housing for $800 or so, but I doub't it. Once the s/c is used he can't return it for a curved either.
-- Joe
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Engine: 383ci w/ Blower
Originally posted by anesthes
Not easily. I investigated this route and finally ditched the idea and went with a water/alky injection setup.
-- Joe
Not easily. I investigated this route and finally ditched the idea and went with a water/alky injection setup.
-- Joe
Got any specifics on the system you used so I can look into it?
Thanks for the info
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Car: '88 Formula, '94 Corvette, '95 Bird
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Transmission: T5, Zf6, 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 3.42, Dana44 3.45, 3.23
I found an old holley kit on ebay.. A few guys, like Darcom have made their own kits..
Search around. You'll find tons of info.
-- Joe
Search around. You'll find tons of info.
-- Joe
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Car: 1987 GTA
Engine: PT88 Turbo DART 406
Transmission: th400
Axle/Gears: 9" ford
Vortech will sell you the curved discharge tubing and you can add it yourself... IF you have them do it the cost is HIGH because it counts as a rebuild...
Kenwood
F/S CUSTOM YS TRIM brackets and custom cogs>.
Kenwood
F/S CUSTOM YS TRIM brackets and custom cogs>.
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Car: '88 Formula, '94 Corvette, '95 Bird
Engine: LC9, 355" LT1, LT1
Transmission: T5, Zf6, 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 3.42, Dana44 3.45, 3.23
Vortech will sell you the curved discharge tubing and you can add it yourself... IF you have them do it the cost is HIGH because it counts as a rebuild...
-- Joe
#19
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I'm sorry, but i don't see why you just cant rotate the compressor housing so it points just like ATI unit.
I believe Justin91GTA did this with only a small modification to the housing.
later
larry
I believe Justin91GTA did this with only a small modification to the housing.
later
larry
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I'm sorry, but i don't see why you just cant rotate the compressor housing so it points just like ATI unit.
I believe Justin91GTA did this with only a small modification to the housing.
I believe Justin91GTA did this with only a small modification to the housing.
And you can't rotate it down because the steering box + pump are in the way.
Can't rotate it so it aims at the fender, cuz the strut tower is in the way.
I'd LOVE to see some pics of someone with a straight discharge who pulled it off. I gave up.
And i'm serious about the pictures. I'd like to know. I tried everything..
-- Joe
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Car: 91 Camaro Vert
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now im all for just putting water injection, but if you really wanted a intercooler with that blower, couldnt you put some kind of hose from teh blower, UNDER the throttlebody (or over if its oval shaped) then put your air to water intercooler near where the stock battery is on a camaro, then run the air back and into the throttlebody? perhaps even make it come from the front of the radiator like stock and straight back in?
and whats stopping you from adding a extention/adapter and moving the location of the throttlebody?
*shrug*
then again, im looking at random pics on the internet, so i could just be judging everythign wrong and theres no room to go under/over.
and whats stopping you from adding a extention/adapter and moving the location of the throttlebody?
*shrug*
then again, im looking at random pics on the internet, so i could just be judging everythign wrong and theres no room to go under/over.
#24
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If i'm reading this post right, here's someone that has accomplished this...
https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...?threadid=36797
later
larry
https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...?threadid=36797
later
larry
-- Joe
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Car: 1992 B4C 1LE
Engine: Proaction 412, Accel singleplane
Transmission: built 700R4 w/custom converter
Axle/Gears: stock w/later 4th gen torsen pos
I figured you could re-clock the outlet and do it exactly as a ATI does in the first place, but it stops you from having the inlet piping that you already have to get the ait into the blower.
edit: anesthes just informed me that that "clocking" of the blower results in a hood interference sorry
edit: anesthes just informed me that that "clocking" of the blower results in a hood interference sorry
Last edited by B4Ctom1; 02-03-2004 at 01:34 PM.
#26
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Yes, i realize the pics in the post are of the curved discharge, and '91 formula also said that those are NOT pics of his car,
but he does go on to say .
I'm sorry if I'm wrong, but from all the pics of the vortech's with the straight discharge that i have seen, it does look like it would work.
later
larry
but he does go on to say
The rotation can be done with the stock housing. It will end up close to where the ATI intercooler pipe comes out of the fender, just like the ATI blower does.
I'm sorry if I'm wrong, but from all the pics of the vortech's with the straight discharge that i have seen, it does look like it would work.
later
larry
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Car: 1984 Corvette
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Transmission: 4L80E with TCI T-Com
Originally posted by meffie
Oh that sucks, so there's no way to add an intercooler to my setup?
Oh that sucks, so there's no way to add an intercooler to my setup?
Look at my friends Twin supercharged intercooled IROC ...
By looking at your picture I see one possible solution like this:
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Well I'm in love! What kind of HP and Boost is he running?
anesthes what's your opinion on that? Didn't you say the elbow wouldn't fit for us?
anesthes what's your opinion on that? Didn't you say the elbow wouldn't fit for us?
Last edited by meffie; 02-03-2004 at 05:04 PM.
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Unknown hp and he saw 13-14 psi for a few moments before loosing 3rd and 4th in the th700.
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Well I just went and took some measurements and I think it might actually work like that. But it appears at the very least we would have to remove the dual fans and go to a single fan setup.
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Engine: 383ci w/ Blower
Well that doesn't surprise me. I wouldn't have even attempted that with a 700. I'm wondering why my 700r4 is still together with 500ftlbs of torque at the rear wheels......
*finds really big piece of wood and knocks the heck out of it with a bat*
*finds really big piece of wood and knocks the heck out of it with a bat*
Last edited by meffie; 02-03-2004 at 05:25 PM.
#32
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Car: '88 Formula, '94 Corvette, '95 Bird
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Transmission: T5, Zf6, 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 3.42, Dana44 3.45, 3.23
1) The radiator hose barely fits there w/out rubbing the vortech pully.
2) Where do you plan on running the radiator hose? I mean, that just won't work. you'd never get it onto the thermostat housing.
I spent all night putting my motor back together. And I did take notice again of the supercharger placement. straight up won't work too high, same with at an angle, can't point it twords the fender, can't go down. Only option is a curved discharge and straight back as far as I can see..
-- Joe
2) Where do you plan on running the radiator hose? I mean, that just won't work. you'd never get it onto the thermostat housing.
I spent all night putting my motor back together. And I did take notice again of the supercharger placement. straight up won't work too high, same with at an angle, can't point it twords the fender, can't go down. Only option is a curved discharge and straight back as far as I can see..
-- Joe
Last edited by anesthes; 02-03-2004 at 09:14 PM.
#33
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Well I measured exactly 3 inches from radiator to the bolt on the pulley, so that would basicly give what, 1/4" clearance, maybe less. I dunno. I hadn't pondered the radiator hose issue yet, figured I'd look into the discharge side first.
What about angling with a cowl style hood? Think there would be enough room then?
What about angling with a cowl style hood? Think there would be enough room then?
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Engine: 383ci w/ Blower
You know honestly, as I look through all these posts, and various others, I'm really dissapointed in vortech. Before I bought my charger I heard nothing but good things about vortech quality, etc. Now, I wish I had bought another brand, shrug. Oh well, live and learn I guess.
What did you think of that dual charger setup? Pretty cool huh.
What did you think of that dual charger setup? Pretty cool huh.
#35
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Car: '88 Formula, '94 Corvette, '95 Bird
Engine: LC9, 355" LT1, LT1
Transmission: T5, Zf6, 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 3.42, Dana44 3.45, 3.23
You know honestly, as I look through all these posts, and various others, I'm really dissapointed in vortech. Before I bought my
charger I heard nothing but good things about vortech quality, etc. Now, I wish I had bought another brand, shrug. Oh well, live and learn I guess.
What did you think of that dual charger setup? Pretty cool huh.
charger I heard nothing but good things about vortech quality, etc. Now, I wish I had bought another brand, shrug. Oh well, live and learn I guess.
What did you think of that dual charger setup? Pretty cool huh.
1) For each blower to output the same boost pressure (in the plenum) how much power is taken to turn the blower?
The ati will work a lot harder than the vortech to put out the same boost level because of loss in the intercooler plumbing. Thats why I went with the water/alky injection route. I can lower my discharge temps, and reduce detonation without losing boost. The fact is, if I did manage to get the intercooler setup working with the vortech, i'd have to upgrade to a much bigger blower to get the same power output. I don't think the benefit of slightly cooler inlet temps and maybe a degree or two more timing woulda made up in the cost. Do you?
-- Joe
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Engine: 383ci w/ Blower
True I agree with you. Again effeciency goes back to why I got the vortech. I guess I'm just stuck on the whole intercooler thing. My mind for some reason won't sway me. I'm still planning on looking into the injection systems again.
I had looked into when I first heard about them, and tried to find some good info on them and applications, but couldn't really find anything. My guess is there's a lot more out there now, and thus I will begin the hunt again.
I had looked into when I first heard about them, and tried to find some good info on them and applications, but couldn't really find anything. My guess is there's a lot more out there now, and thus I will begin the hunt again.
#37
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I'm curious as to why you say that the compressor housing wont turn enough to point toward the driver side fender. is it hitting on the bracket?
Next, i don't think that Vortechs run that much cooler than a ATI, that's why they supply a boost retard with their kit.
The advantage of the intercooler is not having to reduce the timing which will dramatically reduce the output of the engine.
Board member/moderator Willie has done some pretty extensive testing of air temps on his set-up, and proves how well the intercooler works with minimal drop in boost, to overcome that you just change the pulleys, if your not already redlining the impellor speed.
later
larry
Next, i don't think that Vortechs run that much cooler than a ATI, that's why they supply a boost retard with their kit.
The advantage of the intercooler is not having to reduce the timing which will dramatically reduce the output of the engine.
Board member/moderator Willie has done some pretty extensive testing of air temps on his set-up, and proves how well the intercooler works with minimal drop in boost, to overcome that you just change the pulleys, if your not already redlining the impellor speed.
later
larry
#38
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Car: '88 Formula, '94 Corvette, '95 Bird
Engine: LC9, 355" LT1, LT1
Transmission: T5, Zf6, 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 3.42, Dana44 3.45, 3.23
Next, i don't think that Vortechs run that much cooler than a ATI, that's why they supply a boost retard with their kit.
The advantage of the intercooler is not having to reduce the timing which will dramatically reduce the output of the engine.
Board member/moderator Willie has done some pretty extensive testing of air temps on his set-up, and proves how well the intercooler works with minimal drop in boost, to overcome that you just change the pulleys, if your not already redlining the impellor speed.
Board member/moderator Willie has done some pretty extensive testing of air temps on his set-up, and proves how well the intercooler works with minimal drop in boost, to overcome that you just change the pulleys, if your not already redlining the impellor speed.
My impeller is at max RPM. ANd I cannot afford to lose any boost.
-- Joe
#39
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Well i guess i'll be quiet now, you seem to have your bases covered.
I'm still curious as to why you can turn the compressor housing, got a pic?
Sorry for trying to help.
later
larry
I'm still curious as to why you can turn the compressor housing, got a pic?
Sorry for trying to help.
later
larry
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Originally posted by maniacc
I'm still curious as to why you can turn the compressor housing, got a pic?
I'm still curious as to why you can turn the compressor housing, got a pic?
#41
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Yes, I would also loke to know why. When rotating the outlet towards the fender you should get more hood clearence
I appreciate everyones input - the first time around. Stop beating a dead horse though. I shared my experience, if you can do better by all means do so. I'd appreciate it - cuz i'd like to know how to do it too.
So please, grab a camara, some piping, and spend some time, and show us the results.
-- Joe
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Originally posted by anesthes
Then go in your garage, loosen your housing and rotate it. If yours clears the strut tower, and you can run 3" ic piping through the fender, down and into an IC (after you relocate your horns, no biggy) then great! But I allready tried it.
I appreciate everyones input - the first time around. Stop beating a dead horse though. I shared my experience, if you can do better by all means do so. I'd appreciate it - cuz i'd like to know how to do it too.
So please, grab a camara, some piping, and spend some time, and show us the results.
-- Joe
Then go in your garage, loosen your housing and rotate it. If yours clears the strut tower, and you can run 3" ic piping through the fender, down and into an IC (after you relocate your horns, no biggy) then great! But I allready tried it.
I appreciate everyones input - the first time around. Stop beating a dead horse though. I shared my experience, if you can do better by all means do so. I'd appreciate it - cuz i'd like to know how to do it too.
So please, grab a camara, some piping, and spend some time, and show us the results.
-- Joe
When looking at the pictures I think you could do it. You don't need a 3" pipe from the supercharger. You can start with a pipe the same size as the supercharger outlet and go bigger when it clears the strut tower.
And my previous idea about the radiator hose. You can change the thermostat housing ... it does not need to point forward as the stock one.
I also think that there is room for a 2.5" pipe above the radiator hose in front of the supercharger.
Last edited by JoBy; 02-04-2004 at 09:17 AM.
#43
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The stock air filter duct over the radiator is about 3" at the rear, quite a bit above the rear of the radiator.
Like this:
Like this:
Last edited by JoBy; 02-04-2004 at 09:26 AM.
#44
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well i don't have a Vortech on my car, but if you compare that pic above that Joby posted and this pic of my set-up, it sure looks like it wouldn't be a problem.
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Hrmm.. I was talking to someone earlier,and from what I understand the camaro hood is much higher up than the firebird?
-- Joe
-- Joe
Last edited by anesthes; 02-04-2004 at 04:57 PM.
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Originally posted by anesthes
Hrmm.. I was talking to tpi_roc earlier,and from what I understand the camaro hood is much higher up than the firebird?
-- Joe
Hrmm.. I was talking to tpi_roc earlier,and from what I understand the camaro hood is much higher up than the firebird?
-- Joe
The Camaro hood is almost a straight slope.
The Firebird is almost flat near the winshield and steeper slope in front of the wheels.
The biggest differance in height is just above the front wheels.
Compare on this picture:
#47
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Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Little Rock, AR
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Car: 1991 Z28
anasthes, take a look around this site. Looks like he did it to me. :lala:
ys trim straight discharge and intercooled
ys trim straight discharge and intercooled
#48
TGO Supporter/Moderator
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Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: SALEM, NH
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Car: '88 Formula, '94 Corvette, '95 Bird
Engine: LC9, 355" LT1, LT1
Transmission: T5, Zf6, 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 3.42, Dana44 3.45, 3.23
anasthes, take a look around this site. Looks like he did it to me.
I don't see how he pulls off running that tubing over the radiator like that. Maybe you camaro guys have more clearance.
-- Joe
#50
TGO Supporter/Moderator
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: SALEM, NH
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Car: '88 Formula, '94 Corvette, '95 Bird
Engine: LC9, 355" LT1, LT1
Transmission: T5, Zf6, 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 3.42, Dana44 3.45, 3.23
Hah. Well I guess thats how he did it.
-- Joe
-- Joe