Justin 87 GTA

iTrader: (3)

is this thing new? i'm just hearing of it. it's easy to tune. is it ideal for my setup??? see sig. thanks

B4Ctom1

I think some of the other systems like the new gen II DFI and F.A.S.T. have alot to offer, especially because those with wide band O2 sensors and sequential EFI control are superior. But I dont know that every body needs that kind of system. I have been looking at the 950 because of its ease and the support offered by holley for tuning your system. Heck Holley even offers a link to a bunch of fuel maps to help you get going (for free) I see lots of maps available for the other systems on the web but they are made by individuals and cost $. here is the link to the Holley maps have alot to offer even boosted application listings http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/TechSer...o/950MAPs.html

sleepybu

whats the diff between the 950 and the Pro-Jection 2D, 4D and 4Di

B4Ctom1

the 950 is a generic controller that is for multi port but also has a function for TBI. the "projection" are all TBI specific systems.

V8Astro Captain

iTrader: (1)

The Holley C950 can accept input from a wideband O2 sensor using the optional "race software". I doesn't do SEFI tho...

I just got the C950 w/ race software setup for my Mustang. It looks really cool. I haven't installed it yet because Holley apparently makes the wiring harnesses to order...that takes about 4 weeks.

I also spent about 1/2 the $$$ compared to the Accel DFI. You get what you pay for tho...the Accel does ALOT more...I just didn't need any of it.

89ProchargedROC

Did you have to buy the optional low impedence box also or are you running high impedence injectors?

Also, with the race software what type of wideband does it use? Can you just buy one of the DIY sensors or do you actually have to buy a whole standalone setup like a FJO?

thanks

lastly...what did it all run you?

thanks

TA88GTA

I just finished installing this system on my TA and i must say that it is very easy to tune. I think that holley did a very good job of making this system user friendly. I had bought ths system used for about $750 (i think) like a year ago but didnt bother installing it because i felt intimadated by the tuning involved. Now that i finally have it installed i wish i had done it right away.

Kingtal0n

it is easy to use and tune. its easy to hook up. its compatible with aftermarket and OEM sensors. it makes life easy. its very tunable. yes yes yes yes.

but dont expect it to wash your dishes or make you breakfast. just because your tuning methods are refined doesnt mean your engine will run like an evil thing. the commander is just an easy method of tuning the motor, its not a power adder. some people just expect it to increase their performance level, and yes in some cases it does.

but its not necessary.

John'89L98

I'm also interested in the Commander 950 setup, but have a few questions. I'm interested in aftermarket DFI simply because of ease of tuning. I'm not sure I'm ready to dive into the world of prom burning and such.


Here's what I'll have when it's all put together:

L98 block w/ vortec heads, SDPC intake w. ext. EGR, AS&M LTR's, ported plenum, ZZ4 cam, 52mm TB, and 24 lb injectors. I'll soon have headers w/ AIR hookup, and full cat-back setup ordered as well.


Here are my questions:

Will I be able to retain the emissions equipment?
If so, do I have to keep the stock ECU?
And if so, is there a way to integrate the two?

Am I correct in assuming I have to convert to a SD setup?
What exactly does this consist of?

How much gutting of the stock harness has to be done?

Thanks. - John '89 L98

Kingtal0n

the money you would spend on the commander 950 would be better spent elsewhere on your motor. the commander cannot retain emmisions equipment either.

Yes it makes tuning easy but so is burning Proms. Speed density would be the way to go, IMO, if yours is not together yet, but again it comes down to how much changing and swapping over you want to do. MAF is perfectly good up until the point where the hardware in the factory ECM cannot measure past 255 Grams/Sec which is good to control up to about 380 horsepower @ 5500~ rpms. It doesnt look like you will be even moderatelly close to that number, so MAF would be fine for you, not to mention easier to tune using the stock ECM because it makes alot of its own assumptions based on MAF values... .

Now if you had some sort of forced induction i would say go for the commander. but for now, maybe buy somthing that will give you more bang for your buck... it looks like you have a mild L98 going there and the TPI will give it plenty of mid range, but top end? maybe invest in some N20 for that top end cylinder pressure... or maybe invest in your rear gears or transmission.. just by going from 2.77 to 3.73 in my in my simple carbed 355 dropped me from 14.5 all the way to freaking 13.3ish... In your case some 3.42 would be nice, and of course a good 700R4 with about 2400 Stall for the street would be ideal it seems like.

Those things would be better choices for $$$ to be spent on, i would think.

John'89L98

Is there a way to integrate the stock ECU and the C950? I need to pass emissions (dyno type), and unless it's possible to tune for emissions, and not have to worry about the equipment, I need to retain the emissions related equipment.
Again, I'd rather not dive into the world of prom burning, but with this Modulator I keep hearing about, it might be easier than I think. We'll have to see how that pans out. Here's my question - If I'm going to spend the time/money to burn proms, change over to SD, and worry about having to invest in the DFI if I decide to add a SC, wouldn't it be less expensive to just buy and install the C950?
Actually, I believe I'm quite content with the setup of my car right now... I have a 3.42 rear, a beefed up trans, and with my suspension mods and after I get my Spohn SFC's ordered and installed, I'll have a good tight feel on my suspension. Other than needing a replacement top, the exterior looks great, the interior is relatively flawless, and I haven't gotten tired of the stereo setup yet. As mentioned before, I've yet to order the 1 3/4" headers, 3" cat, and cat-back exhaust, but that's money already put aside. Any opinions? - John '89 L98

Kingtal0n

The commander takes the place of the ECM, it cannot work "with" the stock one.

<b>wouldn't it be less expensive to just buy and install the C950?
</b>

well, the C950 is a Speed density ECM. it will want a map sensor, and a harness to match. Im not sure how hard it would be to modify your existing harness, but i do know a new one is a lot of money.

If you already have all of those mods, then perhaps the commander would be a good addition. remember you will lose emmisions and tranny lockup and cruise. you can keep the A/C and the Commander can control fans.

you shouldnt have to "gut" the stock harness much at all, the biggest things will probably involve the fuel pump and like i said, the map sensor. the rest of it should be plug and pray.. er play.

<b>I need to pass emissions </b> that could be a problem. running the ECM in closed loop (O2 mod) will help a LOT. but the downfall is the commander cannot control emmisions equipment, like EGR or A.I.R... having a Catylitic converter and running closed loop wih an LT-4 Cam and possibly a bit of alchohol additive may get you to pass. then again, you might not. it all depends...

I can think of somthing that *may* work, like running a 130% fuel map setup for emmisions day and running nearly 35% alchohol should give you an easy passing grade. you need extra fuel because alchohol has half the A/F ratio of gasoline. just a thought, i bet it would work but ive never tried it.... anyone?

and on top of all that, the commander supports 2 and 3 bar maps so you can simply swap a map sensor and attach a supercharger when its time to fly. real time tuning makes adjusting open loop fuel map values a breeze. why dont you download the commander's tuning manual? its like 92 pages but its REALLY informative. I had the thing memorized like 5 months before i even got my commander system. it teaches you plenty about EFI in general... Its on holleys site.

John'89L98

The commander takes the place of the ECM, it cannot work "with" the stock one.

What computer controlled equipment in in direct control of the C950? I'm guessing the TPS, O2, MAP, knock, IAC, and the injectors. Am I wrong, or missing anything? If this is the case, there should be a way to get the stock ECM to read only those things required to work the tranny lock-up, cruise control, and emissions stuff.

Even if I can't get the stock computer to run the AIR pump, I suppose I could always just have the AIR pump run full time during the emissions test, right?

you shouldnt have to "gut" the stock harness much at all, the biggest things will probably involve the fuel pump and like i said, the map sensor. the rest of it should be plug and pray.. er play.

What's the deal with the fuel pump?

If you already have all of those mods, then perhaps the commander would be a good addition. remember you will lose emmisions and tranny lockup and cruise. you can keep the A/C and the Commander can control fans.

The Commander can control fans and A/C? Cool.

why dont you download the commander's tuning manual? its like 92 pages but its REALLY informative. I had the thing memorized like 5 months before i even got my commander system. it teaches you plenty about EFI in general... Its on holleys site.

Good idea...

B4Ctom1

I understand the C950 plug matches the stock wiring harness, a massive re-pin is in order though. Someone once told me that it could be done on a accel using the nitrous controller to turn on the EGR (this was an older TPI car) as for air diverter and canister purge if the C950 can control multiple stages that would work too, I dont know. if it does then you would be in like flynn. but there is a way to connect both ECM's to the inputs but only the C950 to the outputs except the stock computer which of course would be connected to the smog outputs. It is obviously known as "piggybacking" there used to be a company that made harnesses just for such a swap, I read about them years ago, they were an EMIC (accel DFI dealer). Anyone heard of them or know what the hell Im talking about? either way, white racing and marine makes a non piggy back adapter for DFI and FAST for our cars if you have more money than time to repin.

V8Astro Captain

iTrader: (1)

Nope. I just tried plugging my C950 harness into a 730 ECM I have sitting here. No go. Same with the 7747...

The plugs look like the same basic shape, but they are "keyed" differently. I guess you could do it, but you'd have to do some "custom" fit work with the harness.

If you shaved the little "keys" off the harness plug you prolly do it.

B4Ctom1

how about the pins? could you just insert the stock pins into the C950 plug housings if you removed the others first?

sleepybu

holley has a wire harnis's to use the holley commander 950 with a tpi or lt1

B4Ctom1

I like the stock harness after routing a DFI harness into a car, a stock seems way nicer and cleaner unless you do it the way they tell you with new holes and all.