86irocL98

is the intercooler front mounted or....where is it at, does it come with a relief or bypass valve on the piping and is it quiet or loud and if it is loud how do i quiet it up so no1 knows it is there....?

B4Ctom1

it is mounted in front. there is a bybass valve hooked to the piping near the blower. centrifugal blowers are loud. If you want quiet the only quiet blower I know of is some of the powerdyne models and I dont believe they make a kit. vortech has a quiet'er blower but it isnt quiet at all.

86irocL98

does anyone have a video of how loud it is ....and have pictures of the setup?
-mark

Willie

iTrader: (1)

does anyone have a video of how loud it is....

Mark,

I have a short movie clip. My engine is idling and the hood is closed. It's a D1SC. I can e-mail it to you if you want. E-mail me and I'll send it.


....and have pictures of the setup?

Please click on "SC Z!!" in my sig, then on Supercharger at the bottom of the page for pics.

86irocL98

do you suggest building a complete engine or putting the charger on my stock long block with a cam change, have all ignition and fuel upgrades.....

86IROCNJ

Idealy building a motor would be great! This way you could also run more boost. As long as you put everything together properly and watch your boost, it should be ok on a stock motor, depending on your motor's current status! I have a question of my own, since this is about an ATI unit as well as an 86 iroc. I really should switch over to Speed Density correct? Also, run an 89-later pulley/accessory set up? Most of the kits say 88-92 f-body which in most cases is SD, correct? I still am running a MAF sensor in my car so switching over to SD would be better for a S/C application from what i have seen. Any input on this swap, is it necc. or should i stick with the MAF? Calling up ATI would be a great idea too, just to see what they usually run into after selling products to the public. I just figured i would ask here b/c for one a bunch of you guys really know what you are talking about and two, the search button does not work at this time. lol Thanks for your time guys-Bryan

86irocL98

Speed density doesn't work very well if you do major engine mods, but is fine or supercharging and basic bolt ons, something like a cam change will throw it off....

86IROCNJ

If i am not mistaken, isn't it the other way around? Besides, i think Paxton is the only company who makes super chargers for our cars, MAF cars that is. Am i wrong, or no? Most "kits" are 88-later. Too many people change from MAF to SD for it to be the other way around! Many people change over to SD, i guess b/c it is suppossed to flow better too. Anyone else?

89ProchargedROC

2 things:

1) ATI bottom mounts their intercoolers, not front mount them. They are horizontally mounted under the car in front of the air dam.

2) There are pros/cons to each the MAF and SD boost setup. With GM cars and our computers, S/D has a much higher limit than the MAF. The MAF has a certain air limit you cant increase. There is the possibility of using a larger MAF sensor and changing the frequency to match the stock electronics but i've only heard of one person doing it and it isn't easy. With s/d you dont have that limit and you can burn PROM to match your engine. The big pro of a MAF setup is that the computer can adapt and learn mods better than a staright S/D setup whereas with larger mods and S/D usually needs a PROM retune

maniacc

86irocnj,

<b> "i think Paxton is the only company who makes super chargers for our cars, MAF cars that is. Am i wrong, or no?"</b>

You are wrong, my '88 Iroc is a MAF car, and ATI and vortech both sell kits for '88 and up, the reason is because the '87 and later cars have multiple belts, instead of 1 serpentine belt.

86irocl98,
The intercooler is a horizontal front mount as <b>89prochargedROC</b> stated, and yes the ATI unit are very loud, there is no surprise what is under my hood. check out my webiste for pictures of my ATI D1sc kit w/3 core intercooler, also there is a video clip w/sound (not the best quality, but you'll get the picture).

later
larry

86IROCNJ

Thanks for clearing that up! So, should i switch over to a SD set up with a serpentine belt system or should i stick with my MAF set up? That is what i am getting at. At the very least i would have to switch to a serpentine belt system with the proper brackets, right? That was the only thing that i really could not understand, was the years they sold the kits for, 88-up. SD came out in 89 so i was a bit confused. I know i saw Paxton had a kit for the MAF cars so i just "assumed", that is why i asked! 89ProchargedROC cleared things up a bit for me. It sounds like MAF is the way to go if you really can not tune your car or do your own proms, but like mentioned, it is restrictive. Maniacc, any problems with the restrictive MAF? How much boost do you run or do you want to run? Personally, i think SD is the way to go but if it is really not neccessary to switch, i'm all for it. Any other 88 guys running around with a S/C running a lot of boost? Thanks for your time and help guys-Later

Willie

iTrader: (1)

Now, it's my turn!!


Thanks for clearing that up! So, should i switch over to a SD set up with a serpentine belt system or should i stick with my MAF set up?

Please do not confuse the serpentine years with the SD years. I believe Maniacc cleared it up but I'll reiterate in a different fashion:

Non-serpentine: 1982 - 1987
Serpentine: 1988 - 1992

MAF: 1985 - 1989
SD: 1990 - 1992

So the 1988 and 1989 TPI's were all MAF and serpentine.


At the very least i would have to switch to a serpentine belt system with the proper brackets, /right? That was the only thing that i really could not understand, was the years they sold the kits for, 88-up.

Correct.


SD came out in 89 so i was a bit confused.

It was 1990, not 1989 as I state above.


Maniacc, any problems with the restrictive MAF?

Not Maniacc, but I can answer. No. More below.


How much boost do you run or do you want to run?

I currently run more boost than anyone else here that I know of. I'm now at 14-psig, but stayed tuned because I planning more, much more while retaining the MAF system.


Personally, i think SD is the way to go but if it is really not neccessary to switch, i'm all for it.

It is not necessary to switch from MAF to SD to run a blower. My original plan called for switching to the 749 SD system. This system "sees" boost and can adjust accordingly. The 165 MAF (1986 - 1989) and 730 SD (1990 - 1992) systems used in third gens do not "see" boost and therefore, cannot supply additional fuel. Some other form of fuel management must be used. There are several. The most predominant form (unfortunately) is the FMU (fuel management unit). It is predominant because it's cheap and it works to a certain degree. I chose another method. It is the Superfueler from Carroll Supercharging. Some details are on my website. Please click on the "SC Z!!!" in my signature, then on Supercharger. Or you can go to http://www.carrollsupercharging.com and click on Superfueler. This topic is rather extensive so I'll conclude here by saying that the Superfueler has worked marvelously for my application.


Any other 88 guys running around with a S/C running a lot of boost?

My car is an '87, converted to serpentine. I believe I've answered the question already.

86IROCNJ

Once again guys, thanks for all of the help. Willie, straight and to the point, thank you very much. So, an FMU is not that great, but gets the job done? I'll look into the link provided about the superfueler and read up on it. I'll really have to look into this a bit more i would say, (like you guys haven't already said that to yourselves) lol. I would think the boost you are running Willie would be good enough for me ,and if it were not, then by the time i would be raising my boost anyway i should have more than enough knowledge to know about the "restrictive" MAF set up. I'll also have to look into switching over to SD and what it is all about, at another board of course when the search engine gets back up! So for now, really all i would need is the serpentine system and an FMU or the Superfueler, and of course tuning and a prom change? Plus the s/c kit as well. Sorry if it seems like i am hijacking the thread but this information would benefit both of us i would think if you did not already know this 86irocl98. Thanks for the help again-Bryan

Willie

iTrader: (1)

Bryan,

A few more comments to clarify a bit more:


....an FMU is not that great, but gets the job done?

To a degree. The problem with an FMU is that you cannot adjust the start or end points and that the fuel "curve" is linear. If you needed more fuel from, say, 5-psig boost, there is no way to adjust an FMU to start increasing fuel pressure at 5-psig boost. It will increase pressure at the onset of boost. That means from 0 to 5-psig boost, you'll be running super rich. If you "turn down" the FMU (ratio) to run the correct A/F ratio from 0 to 5-psig boost, you'll run lean from there upwards -- not a good thing. With the Superfueler, you can custom tune the start and end points as well as the fuel "curve". It's totally custom at the turn of numerous set *****.


I would think the boost you are running Willie would be good enough for me....

14-psig is a lot of boost. It's actually too much for most.


....and if it were not, then by the time i would be raising my boost anyway i should have more than enough knowledge to know about the "restrictive" MAF set up.

Let's briefly examine how the "restrictive" MAF setup functions under boost. MAF registers airflow. The electronic saturation point is 255 g/s (grams per second). Please note I said "electronic". The MAF can physically flow much more air, it just can't translate it into an electrical pulse. That being said, what happens beyond the saturation point? The MAF continues to flow more air, but the ECM "sees" it as 255 g/s and cannot increase injector pulse width to keep the proper air/fuel ratio. The additional air will lean out the mixture, then..... kaboom!!! Because the ECM cannot see the additional air, another method must be used to inject additional fuel. The FMU accomplishes this by raising fuel pressure proportionately to boost.... a primitive means, at best. The Superfueler uses three additional injectors to inject the additional fuel required. This system works as a stand-alone and only under boost.


I'll also have to look into switching over to SD and what it is all about....

The SD system uses plenum vacuum (negative pressure) to calculate proper A/F ratio. It also cannot "see" positive pressure created when in boost, so it too, cannot compensate. Exactly the same as the MAF system. So whichever system you decide on, you'll still have the same problem when in boost. So I ask, why spend the $$$ to convert when the "problem" will still exist? This is why I decided to stick with the MAF system.


So for now, really all i would need is the serpentine system and an FMU or the Superfueler....

Serpentine is a must. An FMU or Superfueler might not even be necessary, depending on the amount of boost you create. In my case (I can only speak for myself), I do not need supplemental fuel until ~8-psig boost. Your condition can only be determined with experimentation.

....and of course tuning and a prom change? Plus the s/c kit as well.

And a very good aftermarket ignition system would be a must. An exhaust wouldn't hurt either.


Sorry if it seems like i am hijacking the thread....

Not at all. The key to knowledge is to find someone who's already done it and who's willing to share what he/she knows, and to follow in their footsteps. I don't have any secrets. I really dislike those guys at the track who refuse to open their hoods because they're afraid that doing so will let their "secret" out. Just keep in mind that knowledge is power!! (Literally in this case!)

Willie

86IROCNJ

Willie, ya know, i have read many of your posts before and let me tell you... Thanks for all of the help you have given out. You, and a handful of others really seem to want to get the information out there. Thanks! I have done little research on a super charger set up as you can tell and this is really pointing me into the right direction. Thanks to everyone else too. So, i am understanding the FMU a little better now and i did notice the Superfueler on your motor on your web site. It does look like it would be a stand alone unit and i would see when i have everything together and when i know what i would be going with if i would need one. 14-psig is a lot of boost, like i said, if i were ever in the need of more boost, i am sure by that time i would know what i was doing, better. To tell you the truth, i do not even know of any cars around here running that much boost. I did know one thing! I know how the MAF can flow more air, it is just the sensor that is restrictive in how it can max out the reading to the computer, meaning under boost it could read inconsistantly and there would be more air flowing then the computer would see. Switching to SD i will definately look into. Many say it is easy, but others have different opinions, plus the cost. Like you said, why switch to something different for a not so complete solution with different problems to tackle! The ignition i would have covered. I would take out the 6al and put in a ignition for boosted applications, the blue box. Forget the name of it. Which one are you using? I did not recall seeing it on your site. The free-flowing exhaust would be covered as well, can't stuff more air into an engine expecting it to come out the same as a naturally aspired engine! Thanks again for taking the time out to help. Later-Bryan

Willie

iTrader: (1)

....I would take out the 6al and put in a ignition for boosted applications, the blue box. Forget the name of it. Which one are you using?

I use to have the Jacobs Pro Street ignition. In my opinion, this is the best system out there today. However, I needed some of the features built into MSD's multi-function programmable ignition controller, so I hesitantly made the switch to the 6AL. I did retain my Jacobs Super-coil though.


The free-flowing exhaust would be covered as well, can't stuff more air into an engine expecting it to come out the same as a naturally aspired engine!

This is why I chose SLP's 1-3/4" headers, dual cats and a true dual system with a pair of chambered mufflers, even for a 305!!


Thanks again for taking the time out to help.

You're welcome. Glad to have helped.

Willie
p.s. Please reread the last paragraph on my previous reply above. I edited it somewhat.

86IROCNJ

About the last paragraph... so true! It is hard to dispute facts and numbers that have already been done and proven, time and time again. I try to come up with ideas similar to what others have had done before and had great success with. Well, thanks for the time again. Now its time for me to print this page and keep it for future refference! Later-Bryan

Der91Z

iTrader: (1)

hey 86IROCNj, let me know when you are ordering because i wanna get mine ordered end of the month. Maybe we can order ours together if you plan on ordering this month.

mypontiac

The 165 MAF (1986 - 1989) and 730 SD (1990 - 1992) systems used in third gens do not "see" boost and therefore, cannot supply additional fuel. Some other form of fuel management must be used. There are several. The most predominant form (unfortunately) is the FMU (fuel management unit). It is predominant because it's cheap and it works to a certain degree. I chose another method. It is the Superfueler from Carroll Supercharging.

You originally gave me advise that I did not need the FMU or the Superfueler.

I am running a SD system as you knew??? So what's up.

Since you decided to get pissed at me for some unknow reason I have learned much about setting up the supercharger on my 1991 TA.

I have added the FMU, the ATI inline fuel pump, an MSD timing box and an FJO wide band O2 sensor. I have been working with a prom programmer from PCMFORLESS over the past month to tune the car.

If the car had wings, it would fly!

If you would ever quit acting like some baby and contact me, I could learn you something about the SD setup. First hand experience here.

Peace!