BlownBird

Any new updates on your project? What's been going on, and how's it running? I sure would like to hear some track times from that beast

Guido

I would too! Give us an update!

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

Yeah, what are you hiding???

maniacc

I think i heard a rumor that he is working with Goodyear, designing a tire that can harness all that d@mn power, (j/k)

let us know how that beast runs Monty?

later
larry

Monty

Thanks for the interest guys.

I've spent the last couple of months tweaking and redoing a few things I rushed through to get the engine dyno'd and tuned, and the car running.

I've put about 400 or so miles on the car/engine and have been working out a few bugs. I've gone through a couple sets of different rate wastegate springs. While it looked neat to see 700+ ft lbs from 3000-7000 rpm on the dyno, that kind of power curve was not practical on the street with street tires. So I have been working on softening up the bottom end so that there's not an overwhelming amount of torque right off the line.

I've also refined the install and setup somewhat now that the engine is 'permanently' in place. When it comes to engines, I'm almost as concerned with how cool the engine looks as with how well it performs. So alot of the things I've been working on have been aesthetic improvements, as well as just cleaning and simplifying. With all the tubing and plumbing, it's easy for it to look very cluttered. With a good plan and efficient use of space, I hope to avoid that.

I had hoped to get some 1/4 mile runs in this year, but due to some transmission changes, I haven't gotten to the track yet. While the 4L80E is a stout transmission, in stock form is wasn't entirely ready to handle 1000ft lbs of torque, especially when such a huge amount is applied at such low rpms. Even with slippery street tires, I could feel the tranny slipping and not shifting how I would like it. So I ordered a new Precision Industries 9.5" 3200 rpm stall, 5-disk lockup, Vigilante converter. I also installed a Transgo Reprogramming kit, along with some other kits recommended for 4L80E's in high-performance applications.

I don't have any timeslips yet to prove it, but some unofficial runs involving a stop watch and a measured 1/4 mile stretch of road indicate approximately 10.9 seconds on 255 drag radial tires. I'm guessing the trap to be around 160'ish mph. I tried to glance down at the speedo as I crossed the sign, so it's not an accurate reading.

I have to admit that I went into this with no idea of how violent 1200hp is on a street-tired, street car. My initial 650hp NA SBC 427 made 650hp and that was exciting, but this TT engine is actually kind of scary. Even when you feather it to get it to take off straight, you get going fast quickly. The TT motor has so much more torque than the previous engine. The NA SBC 427 didn't really pull hard until about 4000 rpm, this TT engine pulls hard off the line, flashing it up to about 3000 rpms, and then continues to pull harder.

I'm putting new wheels and tires on it right now, and have new forged spindles, yokes, halfshafts and 1350 ujoints on order. It's a custom kit from Tom's Differentials. I'm hoping that with the upgraded rear end parts, and the traction limitation of the road-race style tires, that all the hard parts should be okay.

I'm also looking into an electronic boost controller from Innovative Turbo. It has up to 6 stages of boost setttings and rise rates, so I am hoping to use it to make the power/torque more usable.

I also think I might be able to run the car without mufflers. I drove it with just down pipes, about 3' of 3" 304 pipe, and it wasn't very loud at all unless I really got on it. It was no louder than my NA SBC 427 through a full 3" dual exhaust and Borla XR1 mufflers. If I run exaust pipe past the v-band flanges on the down-pipes to the rear of the car(or even to just right infront of the rear wheels), then I think it will be even quieter.

LIL QIK

iTrader: (1)

Hey Monty, just wanted to mention in case you haven't heard of it..............but the Apex boost controller will let you tune the boost pressure per gear. That would really help you get some of the low end torque out until the upper gears where you could make use of it. It's a little pricey but well worth it for the turboed V8 guys. It's usually around 550.00............I'm planning on using it for my setup.

89ProchargedROC

the innovative controller is just about the same money if not less. i cannot remember if it is $495 or $595.

no offense but i would trust this controller over the apexi because someone who was helped engineer turbos came up with the design

originally the innovative turbo controller was designed for the turbo motorcycles that hahn racecraft were building.....they had tons of power but not way to put it to the ground. Thats why it has the 6 different ramp rates/boost control/etc/etc

it ended up helping them make a turbo bike go 6.90@200+ a while ago....

Dan W

Monty,

Did you look into or try pulling out timing to bring the touque down? I'd heard that it was a valid method to making high power cars drivable.

Thanks

lteone

I have to innovative turbos boost controller .... i like it alot It may not look as "cool" as the apexi but I think It has more features. btw you can pick it up at cotton performance for a little less then straight from innovative.

Scott

Monty

I'm still looking into the electronic boost controllers, depending on who I talk to, I get mixed results. All the guys at Precision Turbo and at Fast Times don't seem very impressed with electronic controllers, they seem to prefer manual controllers, but their perspective is more NMCA/NSCA/NMRA racing oriented, not street driving.

A guy the I have been helping with a twin turbo SBC 375 Corvette just installed the Innovative boost controller. As soon as he gets it going I'll see what he thinks about it. I was also looking at the HKS electronic controllers, but they tend to rely more on the 'fuzzy logic' approach rather than the programmable multi-stepped approach. I've heard the 'fuzzy logic' unit are a little less consistant in real world use, but that's just internet hearsay.

As for taking timing out of the low-rpm area of the Spark Map, it's an option but I'd rather control boost as the ignition lead affects drivability, throttle response, idle quality, efficiency, etc. But it is very effective. When we were dyno testing it, 1 degree of timing advance was worth 50hp at some points.

FAQman, that's the first time anyone has ever accused me of hiding anything. Every detail, part number, step by step, etc of the construction is detailed on my website. No secrets here...

89ProchargedROC

Monty, they are just biased because they have learned how to use the so called "manual boost controllers." Ideally if they were able to use electronic boost controllers you would be seeing the times drop even MORE, but the racing organizations dont allow them because they know how much further ahead of the competition they would be.

This has been a classic arguement with the turbo guys, why do the nitrous guys get to progressive controllers with their massive amounts of nitrous and a turbo guy cant run an electric boost controller?

Also, the reason i say "so called" above is because fast times, PTE, really they ALL USE ELECTRONIC BOOST CONTROLLERS. They are just innovative ideas to do it (no pun intended). Really they are electric because they are using a wastegate on the pressure side and plumbing it with hobbs switches to the different ports PLUS they are making little blocks of aluminun that thread into the ports on the wastegate with maybe 2-3 ports on that to help make their own little electronic controller....from what i hear they have mastered it pretty well and you can tell because of the times the turbo cars are running.

If you want to see a pic of what i'm talking about....i'll dig around and see if i can find a few pic's of Grebeck's old car. You can clearly see the home-made electronic controller they are using

class dismissed

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

Monty, this is Twinnie from corvetteforum, I was just janking your chain a bit

Marck

Monty

Twinnie, I know you were just razzing me, I was just pointing out that I've got nothing to hide. How's your project coming?

Jim, I would be interested in seeing those pics if you have time to find them. Although I don't really care about how the car performs ont he track, if there are better ways to manage the boost curve, I'm very interested. I'm helping a couple of other guys design and build turbo setups and we've all got to figure out a way to manage the power effectively and consistently. One thing I've noticed about the manual boost controller is that it doesn't seem consistent, it seems very susceptible to environmental changes and conditions. It is my understanding that the more sophisticated electronic systems have their own built in MAP sensors to alleviate this and provide a more consistent resonse despite environmental variations.

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

The projesct is really slow. Mainly due to some of the local parts supplies/corvette "specialists" trying to pull a fast one on me

One tried to rip me off for 321 bucks for h14 engine bearings and he als didn't deliver the birdcage piece I need and the firewall.

For the rest, there's a lot of stuff en route to me from the US so I may be able to do some work shortly

Marck

89ProchargedROC

Exactly....this does happen. The reason why the racers dont mind using it is because they tune it for the weather, they make some test passes before qualifying to get it right for the air they are in....its not like they are driving there cars around a lot


i'm not 100% sure on how they calculate anything, but what you are saying makes sense. All i am trying to say is the reason that the race shops dont like the electric boost controllers is simply because they dont use them in my opinion. The rules wont allow them to and they have pretty much figured out how to get around it with the wastegate/hobbs switch approach so there thinking is, "if it aint broke why fix it?"

Kinda see what i'm getting at?

I'll look around for those pics...i'm sure i can find some and even if dont find the exact pics of grebecks car there are many many many many many out there that have the same setup so i'll find it eventually. the pics i saw of grebeck's car just showed it better

jim

B4Ctom1

monty what controller are you running on that 4L80? a line boost could fix that (not just the shift kit variety), I wanted to tell you because the 4L80 pump circuit is one of the nastiest Ive ever seen. I saw one over pressure the valvebody where it pulled several of the valve body studs/screws out of the case and snapped the VB in half. It was due to a stuck line bleed valve. I have also seen 4L60e's with broken apply pistons from installing a shift kit and then setting the shifts too "firm" with a power programmer.

Monty

I'm using the TCI/FAST T-Com transmission controller. The Transgo Reprogramming kit I installed in it fixes the high line pressure problem and potential cracked case.

Last week I was participating in a thread regarding "shift kits" on the Corvetteforum, and somene was comparing a B&M kit vs. Transgo kit. As you mentioned, the cheap shift kits like B&M rise the line pressure so high to provide that typical B&M hard shift and chirp that you actually risk doing damage to the tranny, not to menion several other inherent problems with those cheap shift kits - flares, etc.

B4Ctom1

the transgo instructions get critisized all the time, but they are the best kits I have ever seen.

Monty

Who reads the instructions

Seriously, I didn't have any problem with them, some of them are actually kind of funny! The drawings are very clear and it's setup in a sequential order, etc. Even though Transgo kits are intended for professional automatic transmission technicians and not for the consumer, I found their tech support guy to be very friendly and very helpful. I called them up and told them what I had and what I wnated to do with it, the weight of the car, and the hp/tq I would be applying to it, and he told me everything I needed to do to make it live, even telling me somethings I didn't need to do (stuff I would have bought from them).

B4Ctom1

yeah thier inst. are definitely for pros. but even when I used to install them in 700's, 4l60e's, and 4L80E's I would be like;"what the hell do they want me to drill?", "which freakin, spring do they want me to use?"