Fastbird

iTrader: (5)

Ok,

combo is 406, miniram, Procharger D1SC, hooker LTs, 700r4 trans, 3200 stall. Car weighs 3500. No cam yet

Looking into advise as to what size head to go with. Is really really good porting necessary with forced induction or can I get away with out of the box AFR 210's?

BlownBird

My vote would be for the Brodix track-1.
If you take a look at GP406Z's setup, he is running a 406ci
9-1cr, it too has the miniram, and a set of track-1's with a little bit of bowl work ( no porting of the intake or exhaust ports). He drives the car everywhere, and runs 11.20's all day on motor, with a 150 shot he runs 10.30's and 10.40's.
Needles to say, if I were to do it all over again, I would copy his setup, and not think twice about it!
And to top it all off, he just went through DE inspection, and passed with flying collors. And we are held to very tight standards on the emissions.
Only thing I would change with his current setup would be the power adder. I would be on the boost, not the juice

B4Ctom1

heres gp406z's car definitely a success story. could you imagine if he ran a blower too! https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=122116 track-1's are definitely a success story in their own right. I have an aquitance that ran a vega with 13:1's in a short rod 406 that ran 10.30's all motor at 5000 feet, not to degrade GP406Z because this vega was a trailered drag car and very light (but it was a door slammer), not a driver, with much more compression. I just wanted to exemplify the power of track-1's

GofasterFirebird

iTrader: (3)

Runs 11.20 all day!! Ha what does this mean? No, cool down time? Infinite gas tank size. I just think it means nothing and thus shouldn't be mentioned.

I am really trying to model that GP406 car's performance but I have to try with many less parts.

My vote is the AFR 210s. I think they flow a bunch better and have a superior I/E ratio. And that is what I would do with the blower.

BlownBird

What this means is... stop at any gas station, fill up with pump gas, drive an hour to the track, pull into the lanes, and run back to back 11.20's. If you want to be an *** about it, I guess he will eventually run out of fuel at some point .
If you need anything else explained, feel free to ask.

unknown_host

iTrader: (1)

AFR heads own Brodix in performance.

B4Ctom1

brodix owns AFR in customer service

unknown_host

iTrader: (1)

ok call brodix up and tell them to make your heads flow better over the phone.

89ProchargedROC

How many sprint car motors use AFR heads.......??????????

unknown_host

iTrader: (1)

hehe i am just joking, tho AFR heads have great flow numbers i think its gay that its practically impossible to find a dealer that sells them (summit and jegs dont, dunno why).

bbunting

.............................................................HP................Tqe
Brodix 18 degree..................................782..............597
AFR 227 CC CNC Competition...............767..............594
Pro Lightning 235 CC Iron....................761..............592
Edelbrock Victor Race...........................744..............594
Dart IRON EAGLE 230 CC.....................721..............580
Trick Flow R series...............................720...............581
Brodix Track 1-CNC..............................713...............581
Brodix Track 1-out of the box..............701...............577
AFR 210 CC Aluminum..........................693..............565
Dart Pro 1 alum 2.05/1.60 215 cc.........652.............566

These are DD numbers from a supercharged 393 CI small block Chevy. For what it's worth. All are 2.08/1.60 valves unless noted.

GofasterFirebird

iTrader: (3)

Now, how could a Track one head beat an AFR 210 in HP? Look at the flow numbers:

http://www.prestage.com/partsthatwor...rHeadTests.asp

Unless desktop dyno takes into account the velocity and turbulance of the flow, etc; I do not see how the brodix heads could outperform. Unless the Brodix heads have better "all day" performance! lol

http://www.prestage.com/partsthatwor...rHeadTests.asp

bbunting

I think that the data from 1998 might be a little dated. Here is where I got my data:


Brodix Track 1 flow brodix

Edelbrock Victor JR Race Heads # 77639
Vic Jr.

Dart Iron Eagle 230 CC
Dart

Trick Flow R's
TF

AFR 210

GofasterFirebird

iTrader: (3)

Maybe so. All I have to say is I am not sold until I see independent testing. And AFRs data is independent. Brodix may not be.

BuckeyeROC

Am I missing something? The AFR 210 flow #'s walk all over the Track 1's. Even the AFR 190 flow #'s are similar to the Track 1's on the intake side, but the AFR 190's exhaust #'s kill the Track 1's.

GofasterFirebird

iTrader: (3)

Look, the 210s whup the Track ones. Can't seem to get around that . The 190s look like a better choice for a blower motor under .550 lift b/c of the better I/E ratio I mentioned earlier. Am I missing something?

bbunting

Here is some data with high lift solid roller cam that I used to build my engine-I already had the Dart heads at the time, so I guess I will know better next time.


*************************HP*****RPM*****Tqe*****RPM

Dart 18 degree************1036........8000........755..........6000
AFR 227 CC CNC Competition*947..........7500........734..........6000
Pro Lightning 235 CC Iron****929..........7500........730..........6000
Edelbrock Victor Race*******922..........7500........723..........6000
AFR 210 CC Competition*****917..........7500........724..........6000
Dart IRON EAGLE 230 CC****.880..........7500........713..........6000
AFR 190 CC Competition*****878..........7500........714..........6000
AFR 210 CC Aluminum*******876..........7500........706..........5500
Trick Flow R series**********862..........7000........711..........5500
Brodix Track 1-CNC*********838..........6500........704..........5500
Brodix Track 1-out of the box*833..........6500........702..........5500
Dart Pro 1 alum 215 cc******786..........6500........684..........5000

Motor: 390 CI, 9:1, 1300 CFM TB, solid roller, 651I/671E,296/306,114LS, Vortech T Trim, 2.5 drive ratio, gasoline only
all heads with 2.08/1.60 for simplicity

89ProchargedROC

Do me a favor and explain to me how an out of the box track 1 head that flows 27someting and 19something makes 733hp and a fully cnc'd track 1 that can/will flow in the 305-310 and 235-240 make only 738hp?

that doesn't make sense

89firechicken

save the cash and buy the base model arao heads yeah they may be alot but they sure flow plus theyre a 50 on the cool scale
http://www.araoengineering.com/

B4Ctom1

one thing to consider that I have been wrestling with lately is port size, and plug configuration. I mean certain headers and intakes actually dictate your purchase. What size of port does your intake have, what size gasket fits it, what size fits the heads you want, can you port your intake larger, or weld it if need be, do you want to? what kind of headers do you have, can you run angle or just straight plugs? I actually am going to buy two sets of heads one for the blown car with stealth ram (dont know how big port size can be enlargened yet) and hooker headers (angle plugs OK) and another set for the superram 412 (not going to port much so probably going to run sptsm II's) with the SLP headers (straight plug only (unless you like your plug wires/boots "sunnyside up"

LETHALRACER

I have a set of AFR 210's. The have an 89% I/E ratio. They flow 298.3 I and 261 E at .600. I don't have my flow chart with me right now. I will post it later. They flowed this with a 30deg back cut on the stock valves and a CC blend into the valves. That is all the work done to them. I have ran 11.90 @ 124 with a passanger on street tires on a G-Tech. The mile an hour is high I know. So take off the standart 3mph and that is still haulin for my combo. YOU CAN'T BEAT THAT EXHAUST FLOW FOR A BLOWN CAR! With my Hooker long tubes and angle plug configuration I have never been able to get to plugs this easily. I love these heads. They have a ton of potential left also. I would recomend them to any one. They were also flowed with a 4.030 bore which is restrictive with the 2.08 intake valve. You said you were running a 406 right?

B4Ctom1

call up and ask AFR why the centerbolt valve covers stock and otherwise dont seal or fit the huge LT4 heads they sell and have them tell you you should have ordered the heads with regular valve cover pattern. what kind of crap is that?

LETHALRACER

Here is the shortend run down of what I have. The head flow is included.

91 Z28 Camaro

Computer: Speed Density with TPIS Level V PROM
Weight: 3,550 with driver
Gear: 3.73
Transmission: 700R-4 stock gearing
Converter: 4,000 Vigilante
Engine: pre 87 383
Compression: 11.2:1 SRP Forged .030 over
Rods: Eagle 6” steel
Crank: Eagle 3.750
Induction: 58mm 1,000cfm Throttle Body, No mass air meter
TPIS Miniram 3” runner
30lb injectors
Heads: AFR 210. 2.08 / 1.60 58cc flowed
with a radius inlet and 17/8”
Flow tube @ 28” H2O

Intake Exhaust Int/Exh
.100 71.1 .100 61.4 86%
.200 140.9 .200 122.3 86%
.300 201.8 .300 172.0 85%
.400 249.6 .400 219.0 87%
.500 281.1 .500 249.2 88%
.600 298.3 .600 261.4 87%

Springs: Comp 950-16 Installed at 140lbs on seat 1.900” +/- AFR Hydrarev Kit.
Rocker Arms: Crane Gold Race 1.6
Exhaust: Hooker 1 ¾” Long tubes with true dual 3” and X- pipe
Emissions: None
Vacuum Can: Comp Vacuum Reservoir

GP406Z

LETHALRACER,how fast is your car?

LETHALRACER

Good freaking question. I wish I could give you the track answer, but all I can give you is the G-Tech answer and kills. It runs consistant 11.90@124 on the G-Tech. That is on street tires. I can't punch it until middle of second. I usualy waste two to three seconds at thirty to fifty percent throttle avoiding tire spin. Then I let it rip in the middle of second. I should be able to go to the track next week. The Army keeps me pretty busy. Did you see the build sheet that I posted earlier. I usually take out charged LT1, and built LS1's. I ran down a mid 90's Yamaha YZF the other day. I also got the jump on a ZX-ll and held a car on him till 130. How fast? I wish I could tell you. I hope it is as fast as yours. I will E-Mail you a scan that I just took. Each line equals 1 sec. Look at throttle percentage vs. Speed vs. time. I hit 115mph in eleven seconds. I am still working out the bugs.

B4Ctom1

I know one thing for sure, I am getting those pro lighting 235's for the 91

89ProchargedROC

if i were to do it all over again.....i would use the Brodix 18* heads that use all 23* valvetrain components. Would've been cheaper in the end i think

B4Ctom1

do you think a stealtram can port out to a 1206?

89ProchargedROC

Nope and the 235 heads use a 1207 gasket or at least it "should" to take full advantage of it

For the stealthram to fit you would need to weld up the port A LOT and then port it all to fit and them mill the intake face flat

that guy bbhunting did that on his motor, said it was a PITA

B4Ctom1

I just read in the stealthram post 1205's are it whats available BIG but in flow but fits 1205 size? nothing?

bbunting

Answer is YES, but it costs more to machine it to fit than the intake itself. If I did it again, probably use a Victor Jr. or Dart intake and convert it to FI. The 235 CC heads are HUGE, and require big CI, high RPM, high lift (600+), compression/boost to make them really work. My Dart 230 CC's use a 1206. Dart 220 CNC race heads use a 1207. Not enough material on the SR really.

Here is what it takes to port the Stealth Ram to a 1206:

"89procharged-the intake was a lengthy procedure. I know that I saw somewhere that any machine shop could do it for $150? Well, here is how mine was done for $345, in my words, and it is perfect-both CNC and by hand:

1) weld 360 degrees around the port
2) weld 1/2" material to the roof of the port
3) re-machine the gasket face of the intake
4) machine the outside roof for valve cover clearance
5) dye the face and scribe to 1206
6) hand finish the ports

The other problem is that when your heads are already at a 1206, the stock intake runnner dividers do not match the heads. Those had to be re-machined to line up."

B4Ctom1

convinced, I see, so its either a TPIS mini ram (they can be had converted), a converted carbed manifold, a bunch of cutting and welding, or forget about it? Any other options available?

LETHALRACER

I got the car to the track. I only got one pass, and that was five minutes after I got there. The car was just the way I drove it there. Tools and street tires. I could only give it about 40% throttle in first and got in to it in the middle of second. Short shifted first and hit the limiter in second. Horrible pass. I havn't been to the track in over a year and was all pumped up. Any way enough excuses. I went 8.00@92. I am sure if I would have driven better I could have atleast gotten 94mph. With slicks who knows. I can't get into the car until second or I just spin. The computer is still untuned. I still say that wasn't a bad pass. Hopefully Thursday I can get to test and tune and run the whole 1/4.