I just want to find out if anyone else running an intercooler with a super charger is experiencing overheating? I run an ATI ProCharger with a two core intercooler. I have a 160* thermostat in the car, and have never ran over 185* even in extreme summer heat. Ever since I installed the intercooler, the car runs a lot hotter. Now that the temps are in the 90's outside, my car gets up to 240*. Does anyone else have these problems, or is there something wrong in my cooling system?

 

That's pretty common.

I've seen people get creative with the small 8" or 10" high output fans that permacool and flexlight make, like installing them (2 or 3) on the top side of the intercooler to draw air through the intercooler, or puting them behind the two grill area openings on camaros, and installing a larger fan (like 14") or two smaller fans (like 10" or 12") in front of the radiator/condensor as pusher fans.
I've also seen people shim up the intercooler and/or the air scoop on it, or add extensions to the scoop to increase airflow.

 

May I introduce you to the solution>>

Behold, my car will be the first third gen with ATI's twin hi-flow intercooler system>>> a system that completely unblocks the flow of air to the radiator be deleting the single two or three-core intercooler>>> replaced by a pair of twin IC's mounted in the front corners of the car>>>

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=112206

It's gonna happen folks. ATI has three twin hi-flow intercooler designs: The LT1 and LS1 Camaros and the C5 Corvette. Our cars will be using the LS1 intercoolers.

It's looking like I will complete the installation within two weeks and will have a parts list for ATI for other interested parties!!

Willie

 

I got one of the last systems to use the three core intercooler. The place where I got my supercharger informed after I bought it that ATI was getting rid of the three core setup. The base unit comes with the two core, and the stage 2 systems have dual intercoolers now. But that doesn't help me any. I need to find a way to cool my engine down using the airflow blocking intercooler design. Any suggestions that are cheap to implement?

 

....and the stage 2 systems have dual intercoolers now.

Only for fourth gens and C5's. Not for third gens. ATI has no plans to implement the twin IC design for our cars. That's why I've been assigned to research, develop and prototype this design on our cars. Although ATI will not formally have a twin IC setup for our cars, they will inform any prospective customer that it can be done, based on my design. They will be willing to assemble all the parts necessary to install this system on our cars.

But that doesn't help me any. I need to find a way to cool my engine down using the airflow blocking intercooler design. Any suggestions that are cheap to implement?

I have done everything possible to cool my car down. On the link I supplied above, I stated this. I even have dual pusher fans to no avail. The only true solution is to unblock the air's path to the radiator. Unfortunately, the two/three core IC's are so large that there is no alternate location to free up the airflow to the radiator.

Try a simple experiment. Temporarily remove the IC and see what temps your engine runs at. I guarantee it will run substantially cooler. I know because I performed this experiment.

The only "cheap" solution would be to have a muffler shop make an "intercooler bypass pipe" that would replace the IC. This would allow a substantial amount of air to the radiator to be used only during the hottest months. Unfortunately, your engine will receive much hotter air, even when not in boost. This is the tradeoff to having an "intercooler bypass pipe".

Willie

 

I was told by RPM Outlet that ATI wasn't going to make the three core intercoolers anymore. Then again, with how much that place has screwed me around I wouldn't doubt he's full of it!! I guess my next question would be which option is the lesser of two evils? What will cause more power loss, a hot engine with cooler intake charge, or a cooler engine with a hotter intake charge? I had considered removing the intercooler, but I hate like hell to do that considering it is an integral part of the ProCharger package.

 

I was told by RPM Outlet that ATI wasn't going to make the three core intercoolers anymore.

I can get the true story from ATI the next time I talk to them, which will be early next week. I highly doubt this is true, because if it were, it would leave the D1SC kit for third gens with no IC. It come standard with the three-core. I will confirm this next week.

....I guess my next question would be which option is the lesser of two evils? What will cause more power loss, a hot engine with cooler intake charge, or a cooler engine with a hotter intake charge?

Good question. Personally, I don't like to run my engine any hotter than necessary. In fact with the three-core still in place, I cannot use my A/C during the summer (southern Arizona) because of overheating problems. Last summer was my first and vowed it would not happen again this summer.

Vortech sells third gen kits without any type of "cooler" and they have been successful, apparently. So did Paxton. What becomes apparent though is that you will have to take other measures to prevent detonation, like retard timing (an awful "solution" in my eyes). You might want to research water/alcohol injection. I use this method in addition to the IC. Keep in mind that if you do go the "bypass" route, that this fix would only be for the hottest months.

I had considered removing the intercooler, but I hate like hell to do that considering it is an integral part of the ProCharger package.

I know what you mean. It's kind of like buying a very expensive system, not to be able to use it all.... It feels like a waste...

Willie

 

You definately dont want that engine getting too hot. At temps like 240 with a super you are just begging your head gaskets to blow. If all else fails you are going to have to ditch the IC and go with less boost.

 

for those of you running low boost you're better off not running an intercooler, you won't see a power difference and you'll get cooler engine temps.

for those of you running an IC, have you considered retrofitting (I know this is sacrilege) a water pump driven fan assembly off of an LG4 or L69? For those with serpentine belts you’ll need to swap the actual fan with one off of a ‘90’s full size truck to work right with the reverse rotation water pump. Whether people like it or not, they are the simple/reliable/cheap solution to moving massive air through a radiator and intercooler.

There are a few electric fans that will move that much air (ex, ’94-’95 Lincoln LSC fan, but the thing is huge and has a 70-80amp start up and just under a 40 amp draw, making wiring hard and expensive, we’ve been trying to get one working on my brother’s car but have been unable to find a relay big enough with the exception of starter solenoids, which are not rated for continuous duty).

BTW, moving the intercoolers to the sides… First, if I’m imagining the right area, you will need different setups for z28/iroc/late RS, ’85-90 TA/GTA/’83-84 TA with aero, ’82-’84 TA without aero/formula/firebird, and I’m not sure what the deal is with the ’91-92 ‘birds. Second for them to be truly effective in that are you really would need to establish an airflow path to someplace. Just moving them to the sides only gets them out of the way of the radiator, but your intercooling efficiency will drop because the only real way that the intercoolers will now have to eliminate heat is by radiation instead of by conducting the heat to air traveling through the cores.

 

BTW, moving the intercoolers to the sides… First, if I’m imagining the right area, you will need different setups for z28/iroc/late RS, ’85-90 TA/GTA/’83-84 TA with aero, ’82-’84 TA without aero/formula/firebird, and I’m not sure what the deal is with the ’91-92 ‘birds.

Take a look at the fourth gen twin setup to see where the IC's are placed. Third gens would be slightly different. The extent of the differences between third gen body styles has not been investigated. It was not part of my agreement with ATI.

Second for them to be truly effective in that are you really would need to establish an airflow path to someplace. Just moving them to the sides only gets them out of the way of the radiator....

The basic premise behind the twin hi-flow design was to create less restriction, thereby increasing boost. ATI must have accomplished this goal because this system is included in the higher-end kits and systems that produce more boost, i.e. 15 - 20 psig. The twins are piped in parallel, both branches using 2-1/2" pipe, which is less restrictive than a single 3" pipe. The fact that they are located in the front corners, completely unaffecting airflow to the radiator, is a by-product of the system (an added bonus, if you will). It was not designed with this in mind.

....but your intercooling efficiency will drop because the only real way that the intercoolers will now have to eliminate heat is by radiation instead of by conducting the heat to air traveling through the cores.

Not so. You are assuming there is no forced airflow through the IC's because of their locations. Each includes an air dam (similar to the one found under the center of the car to direct flow to the radiator). It is dispersed to the atmosphere, exiting from the IC's just in front of both front tires.

In terms of engine cooling, the outflow of hot air from the twin IC's is not directly fed into the radiator, as is the case with the two and three core design. This is the reason why engines will run cooler with this system, in addition to creating less restriction through the IC's.

Willie

 

You didn't say anything that disagrees with what I said...

Yes, the engine will run cooler, it will be getting fresh air to the radiator. Yes 2 intercoolers will flow more.

My point is that they will probably not cool the intake charge better or as well, mostly because of less cooling air flow through the cores. If you wanted to fix this, on 3rd gens you'd probably be best off mouning the IC like the 4th gen ones in 3rd gens without body work and then having fender vents like the TA's, probably larger. As an alternative, you could remove part of the inner wheel well, but in all but the areas with the nicest weather I'd bet that the tires throwing stuff up would make things really ugly.

3rd gens with all the body work would probably work best if the intercooler was mounted to take air from the duct for the radiator (I'm pretty sure that all the pre '85 f-bodies did not have a duct there, and I'm not sure if the camaros did) and again, vent it out of the fenders somewhere.

 

In case you don't know what I'm talking about, you can see the duct in this picture:



It's the black plastic piece at the back, and it basically seals off the space between the opening at the bottom of the nose to the radiator, not allowing any airflow anywhere else into the nose or fenders.

I'm not sure which f-bodies it came on, since my '83 didn't have one but I've been told that there is one on all the '85 and up firebird models.

 

My camaro had one similar to that, but ATI's directions told me to remove it...

I wonder if it does fit? I'll give it a try and let you guys know

Matt

 

For the 91-92 Banshee nose style birds the problem is worse. Those corners are not as spacious as the other 3rd gens. In fact, installing the intercooler pipes was much harder to do on my car then other 3rdgens.

I have solved the airflow to the radiator problem with some modification to the bumper. I took the front fascia off and removed the rubber/plastic collision absorbtion material. After that I took the black plastic pieces off that go where the foglights on a T/A would be. Behind that I cut off the bumper material all the way to make the hole as large as possible. Then I cut the metal bumper crossmember behind all of that and cut it as far as I could to enlarge the hole to the radiator.

Thats all I have done right now. It runs ALOT cooler and during cool nights from Fall to Spring I dont have to run both fans continuously. Sometimes during cool nights while on the freeway I can turn both fans off and still run less then 190 degrees. During the summer I have to run at least one fan at all times but I can still maintain a 190 degree temp.

Later I am planning on fabricating an air scoop that takes up all the space in the bumper hole minus the turnsignal. That airscoop will direct the air into the hole I have made to get even more sufficient airflow to the radiator. I am going to make it out of Carbon-Fiber or Fiberglass. Whatever I come across that will work better. Then I am going to cover the whole hole with the same type of metal mesh material that a Z06 vette has in its bumper holes. I think it will make for a clean looking original install and I will have cooler engine coolant to boot.

 

Blown WS6, do you have some way of measuring air temps before and after the intercooler? It would be very interesting to see if adding air flow from the front (into the space behind the intercooler), which should hurt airflow through the cooler substantially canges the the air temp drop across the intercooler.

WRT making the system more efficient, I'm betting that the real problem is not the air getting in but the air getting out. Has anyone tried getting more air flow out of the engine bay so you can get better flow through the cooler and radiator? Maybe pulling the gasket from the back of the hood or even propping it open in the back some? I know that it's a high pressure area, but I'm beting that there is more pressure under then hood in that area then in front of the windshield...

 

Everyone whos posted is 100% correct. The intercooler is restrictive because it blocks air to the radiator. If i had my way I'd go for ******* twin IC setup. However I dont have the cash so this is what I did. (Camaro only)

Before you attempt this you will need to remove the black plastic piece that prevents you from seeing your intercooler. This is the piece below the hood latch and between the radiator . Also you'll need to remove the black plastic guides that direct air from the fog lights.

I was experiencing problems with overheating on my
3core D-1SC blower also. I couldnt even run the A/C and the car was constantly at 230-250. I live in New Mexico and we got some serious heat issues here. 94-101 lately. So I went to Lowes hardware and got some plumbing materials. I bought a long piece of plumbing pipe, two 90 degree rubber boots, and two flat rubber boots to fit over the pipe. This cost me 45$. Now using that this is what I did. First of take of the intercooler, the brackets, and the air scoop. Now the intercooler lies horizontally on the ground right, so now your going to have to flip it 90 degrees so that it points up and down.(You should have one exit up top and one at the bottom). Now I took the plumbing and began to dink around to make things fit. I ended up taking off the bottom left boot that goes into the intercooler and using my own boot. I put a 90 degree boot where the old one was. Now I ran that boot up towards the light assembly on the passenger side. Now using the new pipe I bought I cut a piece less than a foot long and attached it up towards the boot. Then I ran a 90 degree boot off the end of the pipe so that it just barely fits between the light assembly and the hole running to the bottom of the car. (That was a bitch and a half to make fit) Thats the hard part of the install. Now part of the 90 degree boot should be running directly under/behind the lighting assembly. Remove the bracket that holds the lights to the frame. I believe its three or four bolts. Take off the hood latch assembly so that its out of your way. I then attached a piece of Lowes custom pipe to the end of the boot and ran it towards the now vertical intercooler. Attached a boot and that side was done. Now believe it or not the right side of the vehicle did not have to be modified in any way shape or form. The boot on the right side fits on the intercooler with no problems at all. This system works because I pulled my intercooler as far away from my radiator as possible, air now enters and hits the vertically placed intercooler through the fog lights and has cooled my car signifigantly.The intercooler is about 1 inch away from my front bumper facia and you can see it through the fog light holes. I now have about 3-5 inches between the radiator/airdam and my intercooler. Unfortunately I still need to make brackets but I strap tied the intercooler in place so it wont go anywhere and the install doesnt look bad at all.

With no A/C I was driving around at temps from 230 to 245 and now it parks itself between 175 and 220 all day long. With A/C on a hot day the needle bounces around 220 but never hits 240. This little fix works and for 45$ and about 3-5 hours(depending on how nice the car treats you),
you can see cooler temps.

 

so...

long story short....you took the horizontally mounted 3 core and front mounted it

 

Actually 83 Crossfire TA, I have the Power Bulge hood that the later model formulas and early model Trans-Ams came with. I have the block plate removed and the under hood insulation remomved as well. That should help with the engine bay being high pressure somewhat.

And I have monitered the IAT sensor readings since I have had my scan tool. They have been better after I removed the front bumper material.

Lets look why. After mounting the intercooler, the area in front of the radiator becomes more of a high pressure area then before as the airflow is restricted past the intercooler. After getting airflow strait into the radiator (with my modified bumper) it turns that area back into a low pressure area since airflow velocity has obviously increased. Therefore, the air flowing past the intercooler is more likely to flow into the area in front of the radiator too.

Maybe this picture will help explain.

 

Here is what it was doing before the bumper modification.

 

Exactly

 

Hey Blown WS6, you inspired me! I have the 89 Formula, so I don't have foglights. What I did was removed the plastic moldings that bolt to the bumper cover. I then cut out the bumper directly behind where the moldings were. I left the plastic reinforcement on the bumper. The bumper, from a side view is C-channeled. I used some thin sheet metal and closed off the backside of the bumper. Then directly in front of the radiator on the back of the bumper I riveted some 6"x6" sheet metal ducts that I made. I cut out the angled plastic piece in front of the radiator so when I put the bumper back on, the two ducts slip tightly into the plastic. Now the bumper acts as a "tube" directing air from in front of the car directly into the radiator. There is so much air flow coming in from these intakes, if you hold a lit cigarette in front of the bumper you can watch the smoke get sucked right in. I was out beating on the car this afternoon in 92 degree weather with the AC on and never went over 210*. Before, I would be running over 210* with no AC and driving nice.