Ok heres the deal, I have an opportunity to pick up a Novi 2000 head unit cheap, real cheap. I am also lucky enough to have a friend who does welding and custom fabrication for a living so he's agreed to build a set of custom brackets to mount it. What I really need is some good close up photos from differant angles of how ATI and Vortech mount their blowers and brackets. All I can seem to find on the net are fairly low res images. I need to be able to give the guy a decent idea of how all the brackets mount. So if anyone can e-mail me pictures it would be immensely appreciated!!
If the project goes forward I'll be sure to keep everyone here updated on just how it goes. Thanks!!

terence@nycap.rr.com

 

I have some photos from my old vortech setup at home I can post tonight.

Some advise. Make sure that you use 1/2" aluminum. 6061. You want it to be stiff, and you want it to be light. If you make a bracket out of 1/2" steel, it will take two of you to install it.

That material is not too expensive to come by.

Good luck!

 

Well looks like this project is gonna be a go. If you still have those pictures Guido it would be greatly appreciated. Now I just have to start putting the rest of the stuff together.
Gotta decide now exactly how to deal with the fuel situation. Got a walbro 255 pump going in. Considered a Superfueler but thats out of my price range right now. FMU's are all over e-bay so that may be the way to go since I'll only run low boost untill I build an engine specifically for boost. Does anyone know offhand exactly what ratio FMU vortech or ATI supply with their kits? Oh well could be time to look into the old threads about running the Sy/Ty code in the 730.......

 

Im pretty sure their FMU's are 8:1 ratio.

I have the pics but I have not sat down at the computer long enough since I posted that to get them uploaded. I should be able to sometime this weekend.

Good luck and let us know what happens. This could be a VERY interesting development!

 

Definately put an aux. fuel pump or a larger fuel pump in! I am only running 8psi and i needed more fuel and the fmu did not cut it! The FMU helped, however the aux. fuel pump and the FMU are the way to go! I would spend the extra cash and get the vortech super fmu. It's adjustible from4:1 up to 12:1

 

the show your power adder post on this power adder section shows many many blown cars

 

Hi MARK A 91Formula, here are some pictures of my ATI mounting bracket. Arrows A, B, and C point to the mounting bolt holes. A and B point to the bolt holes that screw into the passenger-side cylinder head, and C attaches through the bottom bolt of the alternator bracket. The bolts used are long and you'll need to fabricate spacers. I would suggest using Thread-All to fab the custum bolts and aluminum tubing for the spacers. By the way for rigidity ATI used 1/2 in. steel for the mounting plate.

 

The three remaining bolt holes at the top are for the head unit, yours will more than likely look different due to the differences in head unit design. The following picture shows the best picture I can get for seeing the compressor intalled ( after all it is a tight fit). Hope the pictures help. Later!

 

Thanks Kendol that was a big help! Thats pretty much what I was looking for. I finally got the blower in my hands and it's in great shape so this is definately a go. I do however have a few questions for the guru's

1) Crank pulley. Since I'm pretty much going to pattern this off of ATI's setup, they are probably the ones to emulate here. Does ATI use a one piece pulley for accessories and blower, or does the blower pulley just bolt onto the existing pulley? And while I'm on the pulley topic, does anyone have one laying around they would like to sell. BTW it's an 8 rib.

2) Oil feed. Where to tap in? Does the drain have to be a straight run like a turbo?

Any other pitfalls anyone can foresee with this install? Anything you think I'm missing?

 

The crank pulley is a two piece if supplied by ATI. The newer ATI procharger series P1-SC and D1-SC both use a fixed diameter 8-rib crank pulley. I'm sure if you give them a call and specify the compressor pulley size, compressor drive ratio, and Novi pulley design they'll be able to help you find all you need. After all, to achieve desired boost pressures, since ATI's crank pulleys are all the same diameter, you can always change the blower pulley and use their crank pulley as is. ATI's number is 913-338-3086. Later!

 

Oil drain info has been attached. Don't forget the little things like plumbing, i.e. a custom elbow from compressor discharge tube to throttle body. You might also want to consider a bypass valve, it helps prevent surging during decel. In line fuel pump and any other components like FMU, bigger injectors, or info on how to tune a PROM for non-FMU application. Might also be a good idea to find a way to use a spring tensioner on blower bracket, like the ones our cars came factory equipped with. Other than that everything else is fab and tune. Hope this helps.

 

Thanks again. I'll be running 24# injectors on a basically stock 305. I'm looking at getting a FMU for now, I'm going to make a wiring harness adaptor for a 749 so I can switch back and forth between computers if necessary. The 749 is a bit differant than the 730 tuning wise. I'm more familiar with the 730 so the FMU will get me up and running and I can easily swap to the 749 to learn it.

Back to the FMU Does the ATI FMU come with fuel lines that are a direct fit for TPI or is it a hack job? Just how much adjustability does the ATI FMU have?

Looks like I'm just gonna use an ati crank pulley. Is the pulley just one piece to bolt on or are there spacers or anything else to deal with?

Wow this project is turning into the makings for a tech article =)

 

Youve got a great project going on! I like it!

I dont know how the ATI pulley setup is but when I had my vortech, I had a ROUGHLY (because I never measured it) spacer that went between the crank and blower puller that was about 2" thick. It got the blower pulley out past the crank pulley. But you have to be careful you dont get into the sway bar (or wonder bar if you have that) and the fans. You get tight for space fast down there.

ATI sells what they call a "super FMU" What it has on it, is a bleeder screw of sorts on the top of it so that you can change the ratio. Say you are too lean, turn the screw to limit the amount of air it lets past and then you get more out of the FMU. I dont know what it costs. As far as plumbing it in, you can always run -6AN steel braided fuel lines. Or maybe ATI has something that will work. If they are anything like Vortech's was though, they had a chinsy setup that I didnt like much. I put NPT to -6AN adapters in the FMU and ran braided lines myself.

Good luck! Keep us posted!

 

Let me make a slight correction here, in the pic with the bracket, the A & B bolt <b>DO NOT</b> go in the passenger side, they go into the driverside of the engine (where the accessory bracket bolts on).

ATI's FMU's are plug and play, no cutting needed.

The ATI crank spacer on my kit measures 3.175"and is machined to set inside the OEM crank pulley. I have the 12-rib set-up, so ATI may have different thickness spacers for the different pulley's.

 

Slight typo on my part, Maniacc is right it is the driver's side. I did say alternator bracket though, this shows how tired I am. Sorry about the discrepency. Buy the way, the FMU lines that came with my kit came with necessary fitting to connect directly to the existing fuel lines, no hacking required. Some bending of the existing hard fuel line was required though. All in all though, the kit went in without a hitch, so I'am sure ordering the FMU and lines through ATI will be just what the doctor ordered. Hope the install goes well!!!! Keep us informed, LATER!!!!!!!!!

 

No problem, I didn't even catch it myself. I automatically assumed it was the drivers side.

It's been a bad week so far, coil and ignition module went Tuesday, fixed that, then Thursday I started having troubles that seemed like the fuel pump, so it looks like this weekend I put in the Walbro. If I get the fuel pump in without incident I should have enough time to get the outline of the mounting bracket cut out in wood to be transfered to metal. I figure this way I have a template to follow if anyone decides they'd like to give this a shot themselves. Then I'm just waiting on a crank pulley to test fit the spacers and figure out the belt tensioner.
Speaking of the tensioner, just how does the belt go around. I noticed there are two pulles on that bracket, one is the tensioner the other appears to be just there to help guide the belt?

PS If anyone has done away with their FMU setup, now would be a good time to speak up

 

Mark you might post up on the www.camaroz28.com forced induction forum. I know quite a few people who have gotten rid of their FMU's over there. Would be a good place to pick up some parts.

 

this is how the belt is routed on my D1sc kit, notice that is has two stationary idlers and the belt tensioner, all idlers run on the back side of the belt.


later
larry

 

Just had a thought. Are there any cars that came stock with an 8 rib serpentine setup? Wondering what to look for in the junkyard to maybe pick up parts for the tensioner or idler pulleys.

Update: Fuel pumps suck....manuals telling you how to replace fuel pumps suck....gm engineers suck

If install is the reverse of removal, tomorrows gonna be
...... dnah ym ekorb I kniht I !HCUO , knat nmad ,dratsab kcirp erohw sselrehtom a fo nos nettor ytird uoy


Thanks again everyone!

 

May have the last piece of the puzzle. The guy who has the FMU also has a crank pulley laying around. Problem is it's for an LT1. Any chance the pullies would be compatible? I have no idea what kind of bolt pattern the LT1 has for mounting the pulley. Maybe just need the right sized spacer?

 

You got me, I think 4thgens have their own board though, LOL. But really, hope things go well, keep us informed.

 

8 rib serpentine idler pulleys are available through parts houses (I think they are used by some late heavy trucks?) and they would bolt to a standard idler tensioner arm

 

I've got no idea what they were used for but you can get 8 rib belts in just about any normal length through any CarQuest autoparts store (most of the smaller stores belong to a parts network and car quest is one of them). On my brother's car he modified what I seem to remember was a 6 rib ford explorer tensioner to work with the 8 rib belt...

 

Update and questions:

Fuel pump is in and I can finally continue with the blower So far the only interference is the fuel lines and the high pressure power steering line. As soon as I have them rerouted I'll be able to cut out a rough bracket out of wood to use as a template.

How tough are the stock fuel lines to bend? Looks like I can bend them far enough but I only get one shot at it and then it's braided steel. For the power steering hose I have a few feet of teflon lined braided steel Aeroquip hose that should do quite nicely. Does anyone know what size connector the power steering is? Same style fitting as the fuel lines use? 16mm x 1.5 O-ring Seal or 14mm x 1.5 O-ring Seal?

I get the last of the parts I need next week and I can start the final fitting for the bracket.

 

Hey Mark dont give up. I was at the track in Muncie Indiana this past Wednesday, and there was an Impala SS with a Novi 2000 on it. LT1 and all. It was a BAD *** machine.

Wish Id had my camera. That is a BIG blower.

 

Give up? Hardly! :lala:

Waiting on the pulley and FMU lines yet though so I'm pretty much at a standstill. Tha fuel lines weren't bad, I didnt kink the line so they are out of the way now. Intake line has plenty of extra slack but the return line doesn't, doesn't matter though because the FMU line will eliminate that problem. Turns out the power steering line MAY not have to be moved, have to wait and see once I finish the bracket.
And your right Guido that is one BIG *** BLOWER. Once I moved all the obstacles out of the way and stuffed it in the hole I got scared and thought I might be screwed but a little grinding on the alternator and she fits! Just gotta hash out all the little details now.

 

The ATI D1sc kit comes with a different power steering line, i believe it is a tighter radius bend for alittle extra clearance, the part number is GATES# 357010.

hope this helps ya
later
larry

 

Thanks maniacc for that part number, I'll probably get it just in case and do it while I wait for the rest of the parts to arrive. My order from ATI is being delayed while they wait for more pulley spacers. I can't wait for that new boost/vaccuum guage to read more than just vaccuum

 

Well ATI finally shipped the parts, however due to murphy's law they screwed up half of the order. I've got the spacer and pulley, but the screws they gave me are too short, by alot. Nothing a trip to the hardware store can't fix. Instead of the correct fuel lines for the FMU, they sent me a long length of rubber hose!!! Also missing a few odds and ends. So first thing tomorrow it's on the phone and get this stuff straightened out.

However I got enough now to start fabricating a bracket out of wood for a template. So time permitting I'll be able to drop the template off this weekend to be cut. Then it's time to start hammering out all the little details. Hopefully I'll have some pictures by the end of the week.

 

Sounds like a killer project you have going there. Keep us posted on your progress, and post some pics!

 

Got the crank pulley on today and it's gonna be a little toughter than anticipated fitting this thing. The radiator hose is gonna need some real work. Also what kind of clearance do you guys have with regards to the blower belt and the fans? Right now it looks like I'm gonna need some real fancy idler pulley placement to do this right. Some pictures of the belt routing and clearances would be simply priceless right about now :hail:

 

radiator hose clearance

 

Well it's update time and it's all good. The bracket is almost complete, just a few more holes to drill. Looks like I'll have 5 mounting points instead of 3 like the ATI bracket, that should help with flex. All I need to finish it is the idlers. I was hoping to incorporate an automatic tensioner but there just isn't room for it, so the tensioner is the last thing I have to figure out before I send the template out to be cut. At least it fits though, I had my doubts about hood clearance for a while. If I can get the camera I'll have some pictures tomorrow :lala:

 

Yes pictures!! I cant wait to see what this thing looks like under the hood of a thirdgen. Even if it IS on a bracket made of wood.

 

Heres a teaser, be gone all weekend so more to come monday

 

another

 

Kick *** dude! Im glad to see some progress on your project!!



You get big thumbs up on this project from me!! Its a paxton blower worth a **** that they would never do in a kit for us 3rd gen guys.

 

the way your blower is clocked and positioned it is begging for the ATI procharger intercooler setup, you could go with the conventional layout or with the twin setup guys are excited about here. both looklike this from the engine bay point of view.

 

Hi Mark!

Nice job! keep on with the good work...........looks like you are doing our work...LOL!
What did the walboro pump, costs?


https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...356#post847356

If everything works out we´ll get ours in 4 days! MHMM!

If i thing it will be easier for us : no powerstrg,no air con,
Super ram .....

curt / tom can the clock position be changend like on a altenator????

compare the one we want the positions are diiff to marks:::????

straight or rear what does he have and why does our pic pose a tensioner??

 

Mario, you should be able to reclock it. The only problems I can see with Mark's setup would be that if he clocked it pointing DOWN, it would be right in the steering box.

Good luck guys! Glad to see all this Novi 2000 stuff going on.

 

Hello Power adders......

hahahaa!
Can some post a price for those paxton novi´s?
the one i am "getting" is a new one used for race show demo purpose only( sitten on the stand and being looked at)

There was a build on car craft a while ago:

Mustang 200 MHL project with a lingenfelter block...it finally run 200 put belt slip and belt tensioner problems where a big point then toooo!

Is the 12 rib so rare?
What would be a 1/4 mile time with a stock 3350 tpi low mils and sr and empty car( weight 1100KG....2200pd)

i was a bit ::::: to see 13,4 as time slip, even with the worn tire
(dont take this negativ!!!!!!!!) in this post!

i took alook at the page and the car is nice all rear end goodies, but the time slip..MMHMM!

Maniac have you raced it on slicks yet ???

 

I wouldnt even consider that ATI intercooler. its like 10 feet of restriction then add it to an OK air to air intercooler and you loose way too much boost. i would just run more boost. as long as you have the fuel, you will be ok. first thing that would go with the right fuel is gonna be the rod bolts

you will go faster with more boost and no intercooler than less boost and that intercooler. plus you will have more money in your pockets

 

i had a 12psi pulley that was rated for 12psi @ 5500rpms and i consistently saw 10psi @ 5000....as i didn't rev it higher

3 core ATI intercooler.....IAT temps were right around a 100

 

G-M,

I have not had a chance to go to the track this year and i am still driving around on my wornout tires, i just finished installing a new Pro-Built transmission and ACT torque converter, my next purchase is going to be tires. (this is a must!!!).

sorry
larry

 

G-M The Novi is fully clockable in any direction you need, just loosen the brackets around the edge and rotate very easy.
I'm really interested to see what kind of tensioner is in that setup you're looking at. I'll have to ask paxton about it. I've got a low profile fan on order to replace the driverside fan. It's gonna make ALOT more room and make setting up the pulley's 100x easier. Right now the fan motor is sitting in the way. I've got the pulley's but I'm having trouble finding the proper bolts to mount the pulley's, anyone? =)
I need to find out about the mystery hole in the side of the blower too. On the opposite side of the blower is a plug with a small hole in it, I'm guessing it's a vent for the oil drain but the way I have the blower sitting now it's facing almost down. Gotta find out if thats a problem, if it is I gotta redo the bracket.

As for intercooler I'm still working on that. I'll be routing the piping down and around like the ATI but I dont have one yet. Since this is still a budget install I may just go through and find a few good junkyard cores and run a dual setup. Need to look into setting up my MIG for aluminum and start practicing on scrap. For now I'm just gonna run low boost anyhow. I want to get it running before I have to put it away for the winter. Besides my credit card is about to yell uncle.

 

Ok the Novi should be in next week!

After long discussions i still have some Q´s!
I would first want to show case 2 versions of BASE!

Version 1

camaro 90
350 TPI ,Full Header , real dual exhaust
no air con, no power strg
empty no interior,gage 12 point, recaro spa
9 Bolt ,1LE rear ,all race goodies: LCA,SFC........and so on
man trans : we can choose 5 or 6 speed (own club warehouse)
weight 1100Kg due to lost of plastic!
coil over , Brembo brakes



Version

camaro 90
350 ACCEl Super Ram ,Full Header , real dual exhaust
no air con, no power strg
empty no interior,gage 12 point, recaro spa
9 " Ford 4,11 Spool ,all race goodies: LCA,SFC........and so on
B&M or JW Powerglide
weight 1100Kg due to lost of plastic!
coil over , Willwood race brakes
ATTENTION ONLY 26x10x15 SLICKS ALLOWED we will use M/T!!


Walbro pump with what rating?
It takes us 1 min to access the in Tank pump!


MFU or larger Injectors ?
Any type of ECM on the market that can controll it like MOTEC?


If Injectiors what Size with FMU and Without??


We have access to "cheap " VW aftercoolers, are they big enough?
What size of core is min. ??
Are those "Plastik Tank" versions holding up to pressure??
Are 2 "small" like Willie is using dropping boost!

The debate of water versions was fought, but again water or air??
It is not so hot over here!!! And cruising takes place at around 6pm at nite!
Races are in the late summer season!

What are the power ratings and 1/4 mls times that YOU thing this Verions will bring??

It would be also intressting to hear what you would change on both of the versions......pls don´t hold back with ya opinion....straight talkers are welcome!
we like boost......LOL!

 

oopss the PIc!

 

WRT your versions, looks like version 1 is somewhat road race capable, and version 2 is a drag car.

What do you want, those are both dramatically different cars. My thoughts are that if you’re asking the question that this thing is going to be a show car and you’re more interested in impression then suitability for a specific use.

Personally, I think that f-bodies are setup from the factory to be more of a handling car then most, and that even with fairly extensive road race style mods they can be made to run well at the drag strip with a tire swap and some tuning. It does not work the other way around. A car extensively modified for drag racing will not handle well. Because of that I’d probably build the first version but with the 9” rear and a fairly durable tranny (T56 or better for a manual or a strong auto). Nothing sucks worse then a car that you spend more time fixing then driving.

Otherwise, the only thing that would strongly sway me toward one side or the other is if you intended to run it in a specific class, and then the class will dictate the version.

BTW, a 12 point cage will suck on the street unless you’re tiny and overkill for most applications.

 

83 Crossfire, thanks for you version of the pie!
Need to explain abit more!

The car is real, meaning it already pushed 11+ with a small block
and Tunnelram, the car weighs 1100Kg, its empty inside except for the recaro, it already has full lengh headers
We have a coil over setup with lakewood and willwood race brakes
also have a koni with brembo brakes!

The 350 "stock " TPI Motor is there as the Supperram 350!
All parts we mentioned are there so its just a "chefs" decission to choose for the better meal...ähhh car!


The season is very tiny ! We have 4 German Drag Races you can go to and lets say 6 Scca Style touring events!
We would swap the set ups each time !
In the past the Baby was taken to the shows or races with a Benz Truck and i lost intresst after wrenching on it kinda everyday!

The Novi thing changed alot something new and i wanted some opinions

The gage is a must kinda , they wanted a bar cause of speed we said you get a 12 point!
Slicks : ilove 10 inch cars that blow the "oversized" cometition!

 

Update time again!! Well I found a belt tensioner I can make work! Went to pep boys hoping my favorite parts guy was there and not some mindless parts counter troll. After explaining what I was doing they let me in the back to rummage through all the tensioners they had in stock to see if there was one I could use =) Found one that'll mount right on the lower alternator stud. Just took a little bit of very light grinding to put in the 8 rib pulley. This just might even work for all you guys running the ATI's if someone wants to be a guinea pig. PEP BOYS part number 305231 one of the cheapest ones at $49 too. Now all I need to do is mount one idler pulley , finalize the bracket and give it to my buddy to be cut.