Giant turbo, 350 LS1 in a nova project
01-13-2007 | 04:52 PM
#1
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Joined: Jul 2001
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From: Cheyenne, Wyoming
Car: 1992 B4C 1LE
Engine: Proaction 412, Accel singleplane
Transmission: built 700R4 w/custom converter
Axle/Gears: stock w/later 4th gen torsen pos
Giant turbo, 350 LS1 in a nova project
I want to tell you guys a story. My friend here locally and I have been chatting about LS1's. I told him that if I were ever to get my https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/powe...rocharged.html car completed I would not be investing in a larger supercharger or larger displacement engine, regardless of my taste for more power, or the destruction I might wrought with my endeavors. I would be going with LS1's from here on out. Furthermore, I would no longer be investing in larger blowers, unless one came along in some deal I could not resist in the F series procharger range.
I voiced these opinions to him after reading some of successes with LS1 variants of even the mildest types, all the way up to purpose built engines that still were not that heavily built. We discussed the massive power outputs people were making with these "mild" combinations.
We had the same discussions about turbocharging prior to this. That I felt the same about turbo charging from simple built setups using wrecking yard diesel turbos, all the way up to nicely customized setups with nice big aftermarket race blowers.
Please understand that this guy went 9.30 at high altitude last year with his friends pontiac headed 388 small block on nitrous in his plated and insured street car. He bought all the parts, then returned it to him in good shape for use in his F2 blown PSCA car.
The prior year he ran 9.40's at high altitude with his mostly stock big block on nitrous in the same car.
He is a man who loves to research, and the internet makes him even crazier. He has not only noted the same things I have, but took it to heart. Sometimes when you see a thing for what it is, and then a respected friend tells you the same, it gets you that much more excited.
He was perusing the ridiculous performance levels that people are achieving on LS1 tech with aftermarket blowers in high effort cars using of all things turned around truck cast iron LSx headers!
He has ordered a good 5.3 truck engine delivered from a local source complete with accessories and those cast iron header/manifolds. His intention is to use the known strength of the truck iron block along with a light overbore to match the bore of the 5.7 LS1. He will be using Eagle 6.125" h-beams, a stock crank, and mahle forged pistons. For heads he will be using 6.0 LQ9 caddy heads ported by him with nicer valves. His cam a unit right from the catalog in the 240/236 .600" range. The turbo a PT-106mm F-trim 1.06 A/R, the IC a 1800hp air to water replacing the passenger seat. Bigstuff3 will be the management.
Because of the interest in turbos in the local shop, he went the distance to become a Precision Turbos dealer! He says because of his low overhead he intends to beat the prices anyone else can offer to boot. I guess you are not allowed to advertise more than 10% below the price list PT provides. But you can sell for less.
When I asked him of the idea of using a stock crank, he tells me that he intends to show others locally what can be done with the simplest cheap LSx combo. When I asked of the small displacement, he says it is because he intends to campaign it in the PSCA races this year, with the weight breaks allowed for the lower displacement.
I told him this is quite a build up. The thing is, I fully expect to see this thing done and running in his nova inside of 90 days, maybe within a month! He doesn't mess around and he fabricates very well. I think at this point it will come down to how long the machine shop takes.
In the time it has taken me to build one car he has built 5 and changed his engine combo in his own car like 3 times!
I will keep you guys posted as work progresses. I truly feel that the renaissance we are a part of here, is the same as our fathers and grandfathers experienced with the changeover from flat heads to SBC's.
I voiced these opinions to him after reading some of successes with LS1 variants of even the mildest types, all the way up to purpose built engines that still were not that heavily built. We discussed the massive power outputs people were making with these "mild" combinations.
We had the same discussions about turbocharging prior to this. That I felt the same about turbo charging from simple built setups using wrecking yard diesel turbos, all the way up to nicely customized setups with nice big aftermarket race blowers.
Please understand that this guy went 9.30 at high altitude last year with his friends pontiac headed 388 small block on nitrous in his plated and insured street car. He bought all the parts, then returned it to him in good shape for use in his F2 blown PSCA car.
The prior year he ran 9.40's at high altitude with his mostly stock big block on nitrous in the same car.
He is a man who loves to research, and the internet makes him even crazier. He has not only noted the same things I have, but took it to heart. Sometimes when you see a thing for what it is, and then a respected friend tells you the same, it gets you that much more excited.
He was perusing the ridiculous performance levels that people are achieving on LS1 tech with aftermarket blowers in high effort cars using of all things turned around truck cast iron LSx headers!
He has ordered a good 5.3 truck engine delivered from a local source complete with accessories and those cast iron header/manifolds. His intention is to use the known strength of the truck iron block along with a light overbore to match the bore of the 5.7 LS1. He will be using Eagle 6.125" h-beams, a stock crank, and mahle forged pistons. For heads he will be using 6.0 LQ9 caddy heads ported by him with nicer valves. His cam a unit right from the catalog in the 240/236 .600" range. The turbo a PT-106mm F-trim 1.06 A/R, the IC a 1800hp air to water replacing the passenger seat. Bigstuff3 will be the management.
Because of the interest in turbos in the local shop, he went the distance to become a Precision Turbos dealer! He says because of his low overhead he intends to beat the prices anyone else can offer to boot. I guess you are not allowed to advertise more than 10% below the price list PT provides. But you can sell for less.
When I asked him of the idea of using a stock crank, he tells me that he intends to show others locally what can be done with the simplest cheap LSx combo. When I asked of the small displacement, he says it is because he intends to campaign it in the PSCA races this year, with the weight breaks allowed for the lower displacement.
I told him this is quite a build up. The thing is, I fully expect to see this thing done and running in his nova inside of 90 days, maybe within a month! He doesn't mess around and he fabricates very well. I think at this point it will come down to how long the machine shop takes.
In the time it has taken me to build one car he has built 5 and changed his engine combo in his own car like 3 times!
I will keep you guys posted as work progresses. I truly feel that the renaissance we are a part of here, is the same as our fathers and grandfathers experienced with the changeover from flat heads to SBC's.
01-16-2007 | 08:36 AM
#3
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Joined: Jul 1999
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From: College Park, MD
Subscribing.I've been thinking that something very simple like a stock LS1 + pistons should make 600hp quite reliably on a single T76. This ups that by several degrees, but it should make some real serious power!
Last edited by Steven89Iroc; 01-16-2007 at 08:56 AM.
01-16-2007 | 01:51 PM
#4
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From: Cheyenne, Wyoming
Car: 1992 B4C 1LE
Engine: Proaction 412, Accel singleplane
Transmission: built 700R4 w/custom converter
Axle/Gears: stock w/later 4th gen torsen pos
we were talking yesterday about the 5.3 iron truck engine he has coming as a basis for the buildup. He was doing some research and the 5.3 truck block wil allow to be overbored from the 5.3's 3.779" to the 5.7's 3.897" with a .118" (wow that is a lot). It sounds like a lot but the cylinder walls of this iron block can take it. We discussed it some and likely instead only a regular light overbore will take place and a crank with greater stroke will be used to bump the displacement up close to the 350-365 the class allows with the weight breaks. This will be done to keep more more rigidity as the engine will likely be leaned on pretty hard with that turbo.
he already bought the kent tool set for asembling LS1's.
he already bought the kent tool set for asembling LS1's.
01-31-2007 | 05:43 AM
#5
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 7,981
Likes: 85
From: DC Metro Area
Car: 87TA 87Form 71Mach1 93FleetWB 04Cum
OK, not to be a pain in the ***, but what is your point? You’ve expressed some opinions on the LS engines and that you’ll probably be messing with them… past that I’m not sure what we’re doing here…
I would not agree that the LS engines are the quantum leap forward that the SBC was…, they are just a refinement of the previous idea, and the fact is an iffy refinement in a lot of ways.
Prior to the SBC, there was nothing really like the SBC, and there was nothing with the interchangeability/parts availability before or since. The amazing thing is that with the exception of a few quirks in the early 265’s, Chevy got that one right almost out of the gate (it was pretty much right within a year or 2), where GM is still fixing issues with the LS engines 10 years later. The aftermarket realizes that there are issues and you can see the significant changes in block designs with the aftermarket LS style blocks that are starting to come out. Yes, they have a KILLER head design, with good ports, chambers… in almost all their iterations, and that is what makes them so nice to mod, until you get stuck dealing with oil control issues (early blocks) or start pushing a gallon of coolant per pass (all of them once you push enough hp thought them).
Honestly, I’m not really sure what you get with an LS engine that you can’t have with an SBC with a good set of race heads at the top end, and in the midrange there’s plenty more available in between for the SBC that I don’t even know why you would compare them. I would argue that with the ultimate stock configurations as well as easily available aftermarket pieces the SBC will be more durable and most likely still cheaper, but as long as you stay away from the truck blocks the SBC will also be somewhat heavier.
That’s not to say that if someone dropped an LS2 or LS7 in my driveway I wouldn’t seriously consider swapping it in my ‘new’ TA…
I would not agree that the LS engines are the quantum leap forward that the SBC was…, they are just a refinement of the previous idea, and the fact is an iffy refinement in a lot of ways.
Prior to the SBC, there was nothing really like the SBC, and there was nothing with the interchangeability/parts availability before or since. The amazing thing is that with the exception of a few quirks in the early 265’s, Chevy got that one right almost out of the gate (it was pretty much right within a year or 2), where GM is still fixing issues with the LS engines 10 years later. The aftermarket realizes that there are issues and you can see the significant changes in block designs with the aftermarket LS style blocks that are starting to come out. Yes, they have a KILLER head design, with good ports, chambers… in almost all their iterations, and that is what makes them so nice to mod, until you get stuck dealing with oil control issues (early blocks) or start pushing a gallon of coolant per pass (all of them once you push enough hp thought them).
Honestly, I’m not really sure what you get with an LS engine that you can’t have with an SBC with a good set of race heads at the top end, and in the midrange there’s plenty more available in between for the SBC that I don’t even know why you would compare them. I would argue that with the ultimate stock configurations as well as easily available aftermarket pieces the SBC will be more durable and most likely still cheaper, but as long as you stay away from the truck blocks the SBC will also be somewhat heavier.
That’s not to say that if someone dropped an LS2 or LS7 in my driveway I wouldn’t seriously consider swapping it in my ‘new’ TA…
01-31-2007 | 01:04 PM
#6
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From: Cheyenne, Wyoming
Car: 1992 B4C 1LE
Engine: Proaction 412, Accel singleplane
Transmission: built 700R4 w/custom converter
Axle/Gears: stock w/later 4th gen torsen pos
I think his real intention is that he is going to take some motor he pulled out of a truck, rebuild it, port the heads a bit, throw a big honkin turbo on it and run 8's.
I don't believe he could get away with this on a L98 or L31, although he probably could have gotten away with it on an LT4 "mod for mod" but I still believe his net yield would be lower unless he stroked the crap out of it.
Another intention is to do it all with very few cubes. He wants to maintain an engine in the 5.7-5.8 liter range for the car he races is fairly light, and he wants it to stay that way taking advantage of the weight breaks allowed.
Certainly he is not treading anywhere others have not already been before with this combo. Some reading over at ls1tech.com will yield the articles and simple recipe for building this combo, from the giant turbo, and iron truck block to the truck manifolds turned backwards. He is basically seeing what others do and instead of saying "I could do that better", and being a general forum jackass he just went right to work doing it. When it is done, pass or fail he and it will be seen as a success or folly.
I don't doubt that there are some other alterior motives. Last year he was involved at the syty nationals fiasco, and several of those jackasses that can't stop sucking Robbies **** long enough to take a breath for **** talking called him out in his NOVA! He won't talk about it, but I am guessing it might have something to do with it.
I don't believe he could get away with this on a L98 or L31, although he probably could have gotten away with it on an LT4 "mod for mod" but I still believe his net yield would be lower unless he stroked the crap out of it.
Another intention is to do it all with very few cubes. He wants to maintain an engine in the 5.7-5.8 liter range for the car he races is fairly light, and he wants it to stay that way taking advantage of the weight breaks allowed.
Certainly he is not treading anywhere others have not already been before with this combo. Some reading over at ls1tech.com will yield the articles and simple recipe for building this combo, from the giant turbo, and iron truck block to the truck manifolds turned backwards. He is basically seeing what others do and instead of saying "I could do that better", and being a general forum jackass he just went right to work doing it. When it is done, pass or fail he and it will be seen as a success or folly.
I don't doubt that there are some other alterior motives. Last year he was involved at the syty nationals fiasco, and several of those jackasses that can't stop sucking Robbies **** long enough to take a breath for **** talking called him out in his NOVA! He won't talk about it, but I am guessing it might have something to do with it.
02-18-2007 | 05:49 PM
#7
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: DC Metro Area
Car: 87TA 87Form 71Mach1 93FleetWB 04Cum
That depends, how heavy is the car?
I know a couple of people running low, low 9’s with stock chevy sbc truck short blocks and turbos. One of them with literally a stock short block, some slightly done up 882 heads and a summit cam and twin turbos that ran 9.0-9.2 for I think 3 seasons before he twisted the crank.
Another friend of mine has been doing something similar with ford Windsor truck blocks. He pulls a “new” one from the jy towards the end of the season, tears it down, drops some new bearings in them if everything else is good, bolts his “good” heads onto it (has a few sets of more serious heads), twin turbo setup… and usually runs in the 9.4 range (keeps running into other problems trying to go faster, as a matter of fact I think he’s had the same short block for 3-4 years now trying to go faster and having other things fail).
I’ve never seen anyone do 8’s, but with the right car and the right turbo package I think it could be done.
I know a couple of people running low, low 9’s with stock chevy sbc truck short blocks and turbos. One of them with literally a stock short block, some slightly done up 882 heads and a summit cam and twin turbos that ran 9.0-9.2 for I think 3 seasons before he twisted the crank.
Another friend of mine has been doing something similar with ford Windsor truck blocks. He pulls a “new” one from the jy towards the end of the season, tears it down, drops some new bearings in them if everything else is good, bolts his “good” heads onto it (has a few sets of more serious heads), twin turbo setup… and usually runs in the 9.4 range (keeps running into other problems trying to go faster, as a matter of fact I think he’s had the same short block for 3-4 years now trying to go faster and having other things fail).
I’ve never seen anyone do 8’s, but with the right car and the right turbo package I think it could be done.
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02-18-2007 | 07:27 PM
#8
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From: Cheyenne, Wyoming
Car: 1992 B4C 1LE
Engine: Proaction 412, Accel singleplane
Transmission: built 700R4 w/custom converter
Axle/Gears: stock w/later 4th gen torsen pos
he informed me he got a 90 or 91mm turbo, not the 101-106 he was looking at.
04-23-2007 | 03:23 PM
#9
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From: Cheyenne, Wyoming
Car: 1992 B4C 1LE
Engine: Proaction 412, Accel singleplane
Transmission: built 700R4 w/custom converter
Axle/Gears: stock w/later 4th gen torsen pos
Re: Giant turbo, 350 LS1 in a nova project
Well, the project is moving along but not with any great speed, but it is starting to pick up. Here are some pics.
The owner with the turbo on his lap:
http://www.titusracing.com/images/aaron/aaronturbo1.JPG
The engine being mocked up for mounts and so that the crossmember for the powerglide could be made:
http://www.titusracing.com/images/aaron/enginemock1.JPG
http://www.titusracing.com/images/aaron/enginemock2.JPG
Engine mounts made and turbo and radiator mockups being made:
http://www.titusracing.com/enginemock4.JPG
http://www.titusracing.com/enginemock3.JPG
The owner with the turbo on his lap:
http://www.titusracing.com/images/aaron/aaronturbo1.JPG
The engine being mocked up for mounts and so that the crossmember for the powerglide could be made:
http://www.titusracing.com/images/aaron/enginemock1.JPG
http://www.titusracing.com/images/aaron/enginemock2.JPG
Engine mounts made and turbo and radiator mockups being made:
http://www.titusracing.com/enginemock4.JPG
http://www.titusracing.com/enginemock3.JPG
04-23-2007 | 09:55 PM
#11
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,857
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From: Maui, Hawaii
Car: 1984 Trans Am
Engine: broken 385sbc
Transmission: G-Force rebuilt T-5
Axle/Gears: Currie 9" Ford 4.30:1
Re: Giant turbo, 350 LS1 in a nova project
GOOD GOD!!!! that turbo is HUGE.. it could probably suck up a small dog..
04-24-2007 | 04:49 PM
#12
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From: Cincinatti OH
Car: 1991 L03 700r4 RS
Engine: 1987 WS6 Trans AM Lb2
Transmission: Th350 red neck Performance 3k stall
Axle/Gears: 95 Mustang 8.8 built with 3.73s
Re: Giant turbo, 350 LS1 in a nova project
Subscribing! Just for the picture of that turbo.
12-10-2007 | 03:15 PM
#13
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From: Cheyenne, Wyoming
Car: 1992 B4C 1LE
Engine: Proaction 412, Accel singleplane
Transmission: built 700R4 w/custom converter
Axle/Gears: stock w/later 4th gen torsen pos
Re: Giant turbo, 350 LS1 in a nova project
Update!
Here is the down pipe. That small larger segment in the pipe is actually a muffler!
then he made a drivers side header
and a passenger side header
then building the crossover pipe
now the crossover is completed
he will take it all apart when all sensor bungs for 02 and whatever else are attached, and send it to be coated inside and out with some really wicked (but not so pretty) new coatings.
Here is the down pipe. That small larger segment in the pipe is actually a muffler!
then he made a drivers side header
and a passenger side header
then building the crossover pipe
now the crossover is completed
he will take it all apart when all sensor bungs for 02 and whatever else are attached, and send it to be coated inside and out with some really wicked (but not so pretty) new coatings.
12-10-2007 | 04:24 PM
#14
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 408
Likes: 1
From: Trumbauersville PA
Car: 88 IROC-Z twin turbo
Engine: forged 383 8-1 compression
Transmission: t56
Axle/Gears: 9in 3.50's trac loc moser axles
Re: Giant turbo, 350 LS1 in a nova project
Freaking awesome!!!!!
12-10-2007 | 07:43 PM
#15
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From: garage
Engine: 3xx ci tubo
Transmission: 4L60E & 4L80E
Re: Giant turbo, 350 LS1 in a nova project
Looks good. I wouldn't run the S/S flex joints. I have seen pics of some coming apart. It would be worth it to check if those joints can handle the heat. If they fail it could chew up the exhaust wheel.
12-11-2007 | 04:29 AM
#16
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From: currently Jacksonville NC
Car: 91 z28
Engine: 383 sbc, 88mm turbo a2w IC, CSU 750
Transmission: th-400 PTC 4000 stall
Axle/Gears: ford 9" 3.55 gear
Re: Giant turbo, 350 LS1 in a nova project
I agree, same thing goes with coating the inside of the pipes, if the coating flakes off, could damage turbine wheel.
12-11-2007 | 05:42 AM
#17
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 268
Likes: 0
Car: 86 Turbo Camaro
Engine: 427LSX
Transmission: 4L80E
Axle/Gears: 9" 3:25
Re: Giant turbo, 350 LS1 in a nova project
I don't doubt that there are some other alterior motives. Last year he was involved at the syty nationals fiasco,
Have to bring Robert back from Sweeden to spank him again.
12-14-2007 | 04:15 PM
#18
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From: Cheyenne, Wyoming
Car: 1992 B4C 1LE
Engine: Proaction 412, Accel singleplane
Transmission: built 700R4 w/custom converter
Axle/Gears: stock w/later 4th gen torsen pos
Re: Giant turbo, 350 LS1 in a nova project
Flex pipes are what you run to keep the whole thing from vibration cracking. I can show you a dozen pictures of similar setups from cars on this board and elsewhere including commercial kits that have them.
Do they blow out? yes, I am certain they do, but it takes a while. They are a necessary evil.
Having the coating flake off and "dust" the turbine is a valid concern. Dusting compressor or turbine wheels is a bad deal, and happens from any contaminate coming in contact with wheels at high speed. I will bring this up with him.
Bully racing? No that is John, not us. But we know John. Spank isn't what we would call it. Also we know Robert is just lucky John's truck was so obviously acting up. John's mistake? Trying to rush to get the truck together in the first place. I guess it beats not showing up at all.
Also, why would Robert come back? Did he ever make his cage legal? It's details like that that make every thing done on a detailed real street ride like John's so much nicer.
Here is John's 1300hp Syclone during a recent visit to our shop for some paint details
As far as Robert wanting to tangle with this street legal and street driven Nova? Not even back when it had the less powerful "slower" combo.
This guy building the car is a no bullshit sportsman tree OR pro tree racer. He cuts lights like a Japanese chef cuts tuna.
anyhow here are pics of the wastegate going in, two new pics of wastegate work:
I haven't even talked to him about what BOV he plans on yet, but he is just working on the hot side for the moment.
Do they blow out? yes, I am certain they do, but it takes a while. They are a necessary evil.
Having the coating flake off and "dust" the turbine is a valid concern. Dusting compressor or turbine wheels is a bad deal, and happens from any contaminate coming in contact with wheels at high speed. I will bring this up with him.
Also, why would Robert come back? Did he ever make his cage legal? It's details like that that make every thing done on a detailed real street ride like John's so much nicer.
Here is John's 1300hp Syclone during a recent visit to our shop for some paint details
As far as Robert wanting to tangle with this street legal and street driven Nova? Not even back when it had the less powerful "slower" combo.
This guy building the car is a no bullshit sportsman tree OR pro tree racer. He cuts lights like a Japanese chef cuts tuna.
anyhow here are pics of the wastegate going in, two new pics of wastegate work:
I haven't even talked to him about what BOV he plans on yet, but he is just working on the hot side for the moment.
Last edited by B4Ctom1; 12-14-2007 at 04:24 PM.
12-15-2007 | 07:58 AM
#19
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 268
Likes: 0
Car: 86 Turbo Camaro
Engine: 427LSX
Transmission: 4L80E
Axle/Gears: 9" 3:25
Re: Giant turbo, 350 LS1 in a nova project
Bully racing? No that is John, not us. But we know John. Spank isn't what we would call it. Also we know Robert is just lucky John's truck was so obviously acting up. John's mistake? Trying to rush to get the truck together in the first place. I guess it beats not showing up at all.
It could have turned out to be a nice nationals... instead of what it ended up as. Robert even went over to Bully's pit to see if he could help when their truck was running like crap. They deny'd his help. Robert's a 200% great guy on and off the track with no attituedes. It realy tick's me off that he proably got the impression that most americans were like the Bully crew. From what I've seen they are the only one's that "Were" in the Sy/Ty community with that attitude. After their little show at the nationals I doubt they will ever come back or be welcome. (That's all I have to say about that).
The Nova is going to be sweet... It'll make tons of power no-doubt.
There's no need to put those flex joint's where he did but it won't hurt anything either. All the headers/merge pipe move as one. I'll bet the engine is solid mounted as well. Heat expansion is the only reason I can think of.
That's a awsome project. !!!!!!!!!!!!!
12-15-2007 | 11:15 AM
#20
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From: Cheyenne, Wyoming
Car: 1992 B4C 1LE
Engine: Proaction 412, Accel singleplane
Transmission: built 700R4 w/custom converter
Axle/Gears: stock w/later 4th gen torsen pos
Re: Giant turbo, 350 LS1 in a nova project
If your not part of "Bully" Racing that's a great start.... If he and his crew would have had a good attitude instead of being A$$holes the entire time. And then going to the officials to point out Robert's cage so they wouldn't their Butt's handed to them again in the final.
It could have turned out to be a nice nationals... instead of what it ended up as. Robert even went over to Bully's pit to see if he could help when their truck was running like crap. They deny'd his help. Robert's a 200% great guy on and off the track with no attituedes. It realy tick's me off that he proably got the impression that most americans were like the Bully crew. From what I've seen they are the only one's that "Were" in the Sy/Ty community with that attitude. After their little show at the nationals I doubt they will ever come back or be welcome. (That's all I have to say about that).
The Nova is going to be sweet... It'll make tons of power no-doubt.
There's no need to put those flex joint's where he did but it won't hurt anything either. All the headers/merge pipe move as one. I'll bet the engine is solid mounted as well. Heat expansion is the only reason I can think of.
That's a awsome project. !!!!!!!!!!!!!
It could have turned out to be a nice nationals... instead of what it ended up as. Robert even went over to Bully's pit to see if he could help when their truck was running like crap. They deny'd his help. Robert's a 200% great guy on and off the track with no attituedes. It realy tick's me off that he proably got the impression that most americans were like the Bully crew. From what I've seen they are the only one's that "Were" in the Sy/Ty community with that attitude. After their little show at the nationals I doubt they will ever come back or be welcome. (That's all I have to say about that).
The Nova is going to be sweet... It'll make tons of power no-doubt.
There's no need to put those flex joint's where he did but it won't hurt anything either. All the headers/merge pipe move as one. I'll bet the engine is solid mounted as well. Heat expansion is the only reason I can think of.
That's a awsome project. !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Robert as you said, and as was noted by Johns crew, was a great guy. But his friends at that Syty board made no real showing of their character by setting up a projector on the side of a trailer and trying to insult, ridicule or even invade privacy like some sort of myspace internet detectives at the track after the race.
Basically it boiled down to John trying to make his truck legal and ready for the race, being told well before the race that Roberts truck would be as well. Then when the race day came, and all the efforts by Johns team for legality and none by Robert at all, the people who spent time trying to be legal had a truck that was running badly but was safe, were beaten by the guy who skated by the rules which all parties were told would be abided by.
My only hope, that win or lose they could possibly ever race each other again.
12-15-2007 | 12:13 PM
#21
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 268
Likes: 0
Car: 86 Turbo Camaro
Engine: 427LSX
Transmission: 4L80E
Axle/Gears: 9" 3:25
Re: Giant turbo, 350 LS1 in a nova project
Robert's truck is leagal in Sweeden. Not here via NHRA/IHRA rules for the times he's run. You have to admit his truck is the smoothest streightest running truck there is. It didn't even wiggle down the track. It just stuck and went flat out haulin.
It's no easy task to get a odd fire 4.3 to run right in John's defence. I know that all too well. Weather it was his crew or himself... If they ever do end up running again I just hope their attitide has gotten better.
Approch it as we all love the Sy/Ty's and have respect for other's vehicles it could be a event to remember for the better this time.
It's no easy task to get a odd fire 4.3 to run right in John's defence. I know that all too well. Weather it was his crew or himself... If they ever do end up running again I just hope their attitide has gotten better.
Approch it as we all love the Sy/Ty's and have respect for other's vehicles it could be a event to remember for the better this time.
12-15-2007 | 12:25 PM
#22
Thread Starter
TGO Supporter
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,991
Likes: 1
From: Cheyenne, Wyoming
Car: 1992 B4C 1LE
Engine: Proaction 412, Accel singleplane
Transmission: built 700R4 w/custom converter
Axle/Gears: stock w/later 4th gen torsen pos
Re: Giant turbo, 350 LS1 in a nova project
Robert's truck is leagal in Sweeden. Not here via NHRA/IHRA rules for the times he's run. You have to admit his truck is the smoothest streightest running truck there is. It didn't even wiggle down the track. It just stuck and went flat out haulin.
It's no easy task to get a odd fire 4.3 to run right in John's defence. I know that all too well. Weather it was his crew or himself... If they ever do end up running again I just hope their attitide has gotten better.
Approch it as we all love the Sy/Ty's and have respect for other's vehicles it could be a event to remember for the better this time.
It's no easy task to get a odd fire 4.3 to run right in John's defence. I know that all too well. Weather it was his crew or himself... If they ever do end up running again I just hope their attitide has gotten better.
Approch it as we all love the Sy/Ty's and have respect for other's vehicles it could be a event to remember for the better this time.
It would have been better if the promoters, instead of trying to do everything they could to just get Roberts truck to be able to run, had just been forthcoming about basically "anything goes" instead of being untruthful during all of the phone calls and emails, it would have been much better for all involved.
I could definitely agree with most of what you said, but I cant tell you about human nature. Any guy who is not part of a group, especially a group made up of people swinging from the nuts of one successful vehicle owner, and tries to walk on and unseat that owner, will always be seen as "having a bad attitude". I have seen it before and I am sure this isn't the end of it.
If another Syty event takes place, I hope things go much smoother, with all of this being laid out. I have no doubt that as well as John and Robert were communicating at the track, begins to rub off on those guys that felt John and that crew were being a bad sport.
12-15-2007 | 02:52 PM
#23
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 268
Likes: 0
Car: 86 Turbo Camaro
Engine: 427LSX
Transmission: 4L80E
Axle/Gears: 9" 3:25
Re: Giant turbo, 350 LS1 in a nova project
The Sy/Ty community is so cool... We could not make it to this years Nats dut to some heath problems with my wife. I sure hope we can go this coming year. We did make it to the Home coming.. had a great time....
It's realy a unique group of people. I've got two guy's trucks here at my shop right now being worked on.
When the one leaves here it'll be going in GM High Tech.
The Turbo Buick Guys are also a great commuinty.
I know we've gotten off the beaten path of this topic here about the Nova and I didn't mean to distract from that.
It'll be killer. No doubt!!!!!!!!!
~Scott
It's realy a unique group of people. I've got two guy's trucks here at my shop right now being worked on.
When the one leaves here it'll be going in GM High Tech.
The Turbo Buick Guys are also a great commuinty.
I know we've gotten off the beaten path of this topic here about the Nova and I didn't mean to distract from that.
It'll be killer. No doubt!!!!!!!!!
~Scott
12-15-2007 | 03:03 PM
#24
Thread Starter
TGO Supporter
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,991
Likes: 1
From: Cheyenne, Wyoming
Car: 1992 B4C 1LE
Engine: Proaction 412, Accel singleplane
Transmission: built 700R4 w/custom converter
Axle/Gears: stock w/later 4th gen torsen pos
Re: Giant turbo, 350 LS1 in a nova project
Yeah I understand. Its just that there are so many examples of insanely fast turbo buicks, and so few examples of insanely fast Syty's for anyone to be doing anything except helping other Syty owners.
I myself cannot help but gravitate towards other 3rd gen owners at the track.
I myself cannot help but gravitate towards other 3rd gen owners at the track.
12-15-2007 | 06:08 PM
#25
Moderator
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,356
Likes: 10
Car: 1973 Datsun 240Z/ 1985 S-15 Jimmy
Engine: Turbo LX9/To be decided
Transmission: 5-speed/T-5
Axle/Gears: R200 3.90/7.5" 3.73
Re: Giant turbo, 350 LS1 in a nova project
The Nova is going to be sweet... It'll make tons of power no-doubt.
There's no need to put those flex joint's where he did but it won't hurt anything either. All the headers/merge pipe move as one. I'll bet the engine is solid mounted as well. Heat expansion is the only reason I can think of.
That's a awsome project. !!!!!!!!!!!!!
There's no need to put those flex joint's where he did but it won't hurt anything either. All the headers/merge pipe move as one. I'll bet the engine is solid mounted as well. Heat expansion is the only reason I can think of.
That's a awsome project. !!!!!!!!!!!!!
You hit the nmail on the head, teh flex joints ARE needed. The expansion of the crossover can and has on other engines ripped the header bolts out of the heads, at the very least MANY have experianced cracking from a lack of flex/slip joint. At first I was thinking he could have been able to get away with a single flex joint but after studying the crossover closer realized that the two flex joints are to absorb expansion and/or mechanical flex from different areas and both are needed.
12-15-2007 | 09:36 PM
#26
Thread Starter
TGO Supporter
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,991
Likes: 1
From: Cheyenne, Wyoming
Car: 1992 B4C 1LE
Engine: Proaction 412, Accel singleplane
Transmission: built 700R4 w/custom converter
Axle/Gears: stock w/later 4th gen torsen pos
Re: Giant turbo, 350 LS1 in a nova project
Scott, I got this letter pretty late in the discussion. I feel we have settled how we feel about the Syty Nats incident. But since Aaron went through the trouble of mailing it to me, I decided to post it here in case you were curious. I hope this doesn't cause us to derail the thread further, but I wanted to give you a chance to hear it from the horses mouth.
I hope this puts to bed any rumors or offers a different perspective on possibly some second hand info you might have gotten.
Originally Posted by Aaron
Tom,
Thanks for posting pictures of and information about my Gen III turbo build. The feedback I've read on various forums has proved to be quite informative and interesting. I'm still learning all this stuff.
I was quite disheartened to read the series of comments on thirdgen.org regarding my involvement with Bully Racing and the SyTy Nats. I guess some things never die and some people never get over things. I stuck my neck out for my friend John from Bully, and I took the hit for it. Truthfully, I don't care. I was right, they were wrong that's all there is to it. The American sponsors of that overseas Syclone were and still are ignorant and overzealous. Robert's truck is very, very impressive. I personally commended him on his entire combination (to his face, not over the Internet). He did an outstanding job with that truck and I spoke very highly of it, and still do.
Oh, and about the spanking. Some people should consider the fact that Robert's truck, while very impressive, would get spanked very badly in any AMERICAN heads-up drag racing event. It's multi-power adder for one. So, he would have to shut off the nitrous to run in just about any event. And, it's back-halved. So, until it busts off a mid to low 8 with one power adder, it won't be spanking much more than other Syclones. I won't even get into the fact that even the most archaic AMERICAN tech inspector wouldn't stamp that truck for better than 11.50.
Here's the actual series of events from someone who was actually involved.
- John asks me if he is going to need a cage in his truck to be legal at the SyTy Nats. Since he ran 10.03 at Bandimere with a poor 60 foot and was told to slow it down at that time, I tell him, "Yes."
- John makes plans to have NHRA legal 10 point cage installed in his truck at about $1000 out of his pocket and 3 weeks to get it done. The Nats are like 4 weeks away and his truck needs a lot of other work to be ready IMO
- John asks me to help him with the cage certification. I agree
- John calls me right back and asks, "Why do i need a cage when the Swedish guy doesn't?"
I ask, "Huh?"
- I join SyTy website and ask a simple question along the lines of, "Does that truck have an NHRA-legal cage?" I receive asinine responses such as, "Yes." And, "It has a Swedish cage and tag, that's the same or good enough."
- Time has come for John's cage to get tagged. I call chassis inspector to schedule a time and I ask him the simple question, "Does the NHRA accept Swedish chassis tags?"
He says, "Not only no, but hell no."
- I get back on SyTy site and post my newly acquired knowledge. I receive more ignorant and asinine responses along the lines of, "We're renting the track, we can do what we want." And, "He spent a lot of money shipping that over here, he has to run it."
- Apparently the SyTy community thinks I have never rented a track
- SyTy site patrons attack me in full force
- I get defensive
- During this same time, I was working with Division 5 on some SFI 25.5 issues (that's the one for really fast, heavy cars)
- The next time I call Division 5 regarding 25.5, I ask, "If I rent KCIR, can I run what I want?"
I'm told, "Sure, as long as it fits all the NHRA and track rules."
- The SyTy Nats go down, Robert and his "crew" are told right away that his truck WAS NOT LEGAL faster than XX.XX seconds.
- Robert and his crew decide to disrespect the track and the NHRA and make a pass they knew would be illegal. Their choice
You know, as well as I, that John or myself would give the shirt off our back to help another person. But neither one of us want to be treated unfairly because someone spent a lot of money to do something that was WRONG.
Fell free to forward or post my comments. Maybe someone will choose to engage in more meandering, ill-informed argument.
Regards,
Aaron
Thanks for posting pictures of and information about my Gen III turbo build. The feedback I've read on various forums has proved to be quite informative and interesting. I'm still learning all this stuff.
I was quite disheartened to read the series of comments on thirdgen.org regarding my involvement with Bully Racing and the SyTy Nats. I guess some things never die and some people never get over things. I stuck my neck out for my friend John from Bully, and I took the hit for it. Truthfully, I don't care. I was right, they were wrong that's all there is to it. The American sponsors of that overseas Syclone were and still are ignorant and overzealous. Robert's truck is very, very impressive. I personally commended him on his entire combination (to his face, not over the Internet). He did an outstanding job with that truck and I spoke very highly of it, and still do.
Oh, and about the spanking. Some people should consider the fact that Robert's truck, while very impressive, would get spanked very badly in any AMERICAN heads-up drag racing event. It's multi-power adder for one. So, he would have to shut off the nitrous to run in just about any event. And, it's back-halved. So, until it busts off a mid to low 8 with one power adder, it won't be spanking much more than other Syclones. I won't even get into the fact that even the most archaic AMERICAN tech inspector wouldn't stamp that truck for better than 11.50.
Here's the actual series of events from someone who was actually involved.
- John asks me if he is going to need a cage in his truck to be legal at the SyTy Nats. Since he ran 10.03 at Bandimere with a poor 60 foot and was told to slow it down at that time, I tell him, "Yes."
- John makes plans to have NHRA legal 10 point cage installed in his truck at about $1000 out of his pocket and 3 weeks to get it done. The Nats are like 4 weeks away and his truck needs a lot of other work to be ready IMO
- John asks me to help him with the cage certification. I agree
- John calls me right back and asks, "Why do i need a cage when the Swedish guy doesn't?"
I ask, "Huh?"
- I join SyTy website and ask a simple question along the lines of, "Does that truck have an NHRA-legal cage?" I receive asinine responses such as, "Yes." And, "It has a Swedish cage and tag, that's the same or good enough."
- Time has come for John's cage to get tagged. I call chassis inspector to schedule a time and I ask him the simple question, "Does the NHRA accept Swedish chassis tags?"
He says, "Not only no, but hell no."
- I get back on SyTy site and post my newly acquired knowledge. I receive more ignorant and asinine responses along the lines of, "We're renting the track, we can do what we want." And, "He spent a lot of money shipping that over here, he has to run it."
- Apparently the SyTy community thinks I have never rented a track
- SyTy site patrons attack me in full force
- I get defensive
- During this same time, I was working with Division 5 on some SFI 25.5 issues (that's the one for really fast, heavy cars)
- The next time I call Division 5 regarding 25.5, I ask, "If I rent KCIR, can I run what I want?"
I'm told, "Sure, as long as it fits all the NHRA and track rules."
- The SyTy Nats go down, Robert and his "crew" are told right away that his truck WAS NOT LEGAL faster than XX.XX seconds.
- Robert and his crew decide to disrespect the track and the NHRA and make a pass they knew would be illegal. Their choice
You know, as well as I, that John or myself would give the shirt off our back to help another person. But neither one of us want to be treated unfairly because someone spent a lot of money to do something that was WRONG.
Fell free to forward or post my comments. Maybe someone will choose to engage in more meandering, ill-informed argument.
Regards,
Aaron
12-16-2007 | 08:42 PM
#27
Re: Giant turbo, 350 LS1 in a nova project
Originally Posted by UR50SLO
Have to bring Robert back from Sweeden to spank him again.
12-17-2007 | 03:59 AM
#28
Thread Starter
TGO Supporter
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,991
Likes: 1
From: Cheyenne, Wyoming
Car: 1992 B4C 1LE
Engine: Proaction 412, Accel singleplane
Transmission: built 700R4 w/custom converter
Axle/Gears: stock w/later 4th gen torsen pos
12-17-2007 | 04:16 AM
#29
Supreme Member
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,079
Likes: 0
From: currently Jacksonville NC
Car: 91 z28
Engine: 383 sbc, 88mm turbo a2w IC, CSU 750
Transmission: th-400 PTC 4000 stall
Axle/Gears: ford 9" 3.55 gear
Re: Giant turbo, 350 LS1 in a nova project
For BOV's i would suggest at least 1 if not 2 of the Procharger race gates. Most likey 2 judging from the seriousness of this combo. He planning on intercooling this at all or running water/meth injection?
12-17-2007 | 10:58 AM
#30
Thread Starter
TGO Supporter
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,991
Likes: 1
From: Cheyenne, Wyoming
Car: 1992 B4C 1LE
Engine: Proaction 412, Accel singleplane
Transmission: built 700R4 w/custom converter
Axle/Gears: stock w/later 4th gen torsen pos
Re: Giant turbo, 350 LS1 in a nova project
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5gdNgzkc38
He has a kickass water to air intercooler box which is being piped into the passenger compartment. I have asked him for pictures of it, before it is even installed, but I have not gotten them yet. I might have to take some pictures myself.
Here is the pretty much finished wastegate piping:
Last edited by B4Ctom1; 12-17-2007 at 11:04 AM.
12-17-2007 | 12:58 PM
#32
Thread Starter
TGO Supporter
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,991
Likes: 1
From: Cheyenne, Wyoming
Car: 1992 B4C 1LE
Engine: Proaction 412, Accel singleplane
Transmission: built 700R4 w/custom converter
Axle/Gears: stock w/later 4th gen torsen pos
Re: Giant turbo, 350 LS1 in a nova project
Here is a letter he sent me as to what he would like people to specifically know about this car and project.
From the horse's mouth
Here are those heads
and that intercooler
better pic of them here:
http://www.precisionturbo.net/interc...tegory_id=3052
Originally Posted by Aaron
FWIW, I've been told I DO NOT need a BOV on my car, by both Alex and Brian (no longer there) from PTE. I will be running a Tial 44 WG on the cold side, along with the 60 on the hot side. The 44 will of course act like a BOV when I lift to reduce the chance of compressor stall and damage to the turbo or TB.
My intercooler is a PT3000 from PTE. Matt should be sending you a pic or two soon. (see above) Once I'm finished with the heavy fabbing in the engine bay, I'll start on the cage updates and AWIC (air-to-water intercooler) install. I'm waiting on a few parts right now. Stay tuned.
My engine combo has changed slightly since we last talked too. I've had some extra time to save money so I upgraded a few things. Here's a list as of right now.
- Iron 5300 block, bored to 99mm (stock is 96), half-filled with concrete, Eagle 3.622 crank, Eagle 6.125 rods, Probe reverse-dome pistons, Total Seal AP convential top rings
- All Pro 64 cc CNC chamber LS heads, Ferrea Super Alloy 1.6 ex valves, Ferrea 6000 Series 2.02 intakes, K-Motion springs 180# seat, Manley Ti retainers
- Cammotion custom turbo cam 246/240 @ 0.050, 0.390/0.380 lobe lift, 115 LDA, Caddy CTS-V lifters from GMPP (CTS-V "R" new real high RPM hydralic rollers), Comp Stainless 1.75 rockers, Cloyes chain, Melling oil pump
Here's a list of the rest of my combo as of now
- Custom PTE 90.9mm turbo, 1.00 ex AR, F-trim ex wheel, built to USP specs for Ultimate Street
- PTE 3000 HP AWIC, Rule centrifugal water transfer pump 3800 GPH
- Wilson 105mm TB, Wilson 90 degree elbow, Edelbrock Victor EFI manifold 4150 base
- BigStuff 3 Gen 3 EFI, DAI, LS1, SWBO2
- I also have another PTE 101mm turbo for playing around/testing
Things I still need to work out/acquire
- Injectors. I plan to run the same Ford 160's that the Pro car has (http://www.titusracing.com/markpro.htm and earlier youtube link). Although, I'm leaning heavy toward the use of E85, so I may run two sets. I'll have to see how much money I have when the time comes. I've also heard there are some 212 #/hr units in development and/or use. I'm looking into it
- Fuel pump. It's gonna be mechanical. Either a Watermann Sprint pump or a Magnafuel. Something in the neighborhood of 5 GPM if I run gas, 8-10 GPM if I run E85. I'm looking at the cable drives from Watermann, because I don't want a front-mounted cell for obvious reasons. But I also don't want the hassles of a cable. I've heard that people have successfully run a belt driven pump on the engine and a rear mounted cell with no issues once the system is primed. I may do that and install a priming pump to fire up the motor
- Converter. I'm switching to a 'Glide after years of running the 3 speeds. I'm not sure how I feel about that yet. I like the simplicity and small package of the Glide but I also like the idea of a 3 speed not being as finicky when it comes to converter selection. I'm afraid I may just have to bite the bullet and spend $2000-3000 on a good converter. We'll see...
My intercooler is a PT3000 from PTE. Matt should be sending you a pic or two soon. (see above) Once I'm finished with the heavy fabbing in the engine bay, I'll start on the cage updates and AWIC (air-to-water intercooler) install. I'm waiting on a few parts right now. Stay tuned.
My engine combo has changed slightly since we last talked too. I've had some extra time to save money so I upgraded a few things. Here's a list as of right now.
- Iron 5300 block, bored to 99mm (stock is 96), half-filled with concrete, Eagle 3.622 crank, Eagle 6.125 rods, Probe reverse-dome pistons, Total Seal AP convential top rings
- All Pro 64 cc CNC chamber LS heads, Ferrea Super Alloy 1.6 ex valves, Ferrea 6000 Series 2.02 intakes, K-Motion springs 180# seat, Manley Ti retainers
- Cammotion custom turbo cam 246/240 @ 0.050, 0.390/0.380 lobe lift, 115 LDA, Caddy CTS-V lifters from GMPP (CTS-V "R" new real high RPM hydralic rollers), Comp Stainless 1.75 rockers, Cloyes chain, Melling oil pump
Here's a list of the rest of my combo as of now
- Custom PTE 90.9mm turbo, 1.00 ex AR, F-trim ex wheel, built to USP specs for Ultimate Street
- PTE 3000 HP AWIC, Rule centrifugal water transfer pump 3800 GPH
- Wilson 105mm TB, Wilson 90 degree elbow, Edelbrock Victor EFI manifold 4150 base
- BigStuff 3 Gen 3 EFI, DAI, LS1, SWBO2
- I also have another PTE 101mm turbo for playing around/testing
Things I still need to work out/acquire
- Injectors. I plan to run the same Ford 160's that the Pro car has (http://www.titusracing.com/markpro.htm and earlier youtube link). Although, I'm leaning heavy toward the use of E85, so I may run two sets. I'll have to see how much money I have when the time comes. I've also heard there are some 212 #/hr units in development and/or use. I'm looking into it
- Fuel pump. It's gonna be mechanical. Either a Watermann Sprint pump or a Magnafuel. Something in the neighborhood of 5 GPM if I run gas, 8-10 GPM if I run E85. I'm looking at the cable drives from Watermann, because I don't want a front-mounted cell for obvious reasons. But I also don't want the hassles of a cable. I've heard that people have successfully run a belt driven pump on the engine and a rear mounted cell with no issues once the system is primed. I may do that and install a priming pump to fire up the motor
- Converter. I'm switching to a 'Glide after years of running the 3 speeds. I'm not sure how I feel about that yet. I like the simplicity and small package of the Glide but I also like the idea of a 3 speed not being as finicky when it comes to converter selection. I'm afraid I may just have to bite the bullet and spend $2000-3000 on a good converter. We'll see...
Here are those heads
and that intercooler
better pic of them here:
http://www.precisionturbo.net/interc...tegory_id=3052
12-17-2007 | 06:17 PM
#33
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 268
Likes: 0
Car: 86 Turbo Camaro
Engine: 427LSX
Transmission: 4L80E
Axle/Gears: 9" 3:25
Re: Giant turbo, 350 LS1 in a nova project
This all had been hashed out on Sy/Ty board. Each side has their own story of how it all went. I witnessed how each side acted at the event in person....and decided on my own based on their actions what was going on. It was kind of obvious.
BTW... he didn't use his bottle to go 9.0's there at KS Dragway.
So for coming out of the trailer and going consistant 9.0's I'd say he'd do well in headsup since his truck tends to pull it off every pass.
For his CID and streetability it's still the fastest AWD truck in this or any other country.
Anyway....Back to the real pourpose of this tread... (again) lol.....
Sounds like he's got a nice combo there... what's he planning on doing with the car? Should be totaly streetable with the parts list he's got there...
Sounds like some of the Stenoid performance guys setups in a way.. they all run real good numbers on their LS cars.
Sweet!!!!!!
~Scott~
BTW... he didn't use his bottle to go 9.0's there at KS Dragway.
So for coming out of the trailer and going consistant 9.0's I'd say he'd do well in headsup since his truck tends to pull it off every pass.
For his CID and streetability it's still the fastest AWD truck in this or any other country.
Anyway....Back to the real pourpose of this tread... (again) lol.....
Sounds like he's got a nice combo there... what's he planning on doing with the car? Should be totaly streetable with the parts list he's got there...
Sounds like some of the Stenoid performance guys setups in a way.. they all run real good numbers on their LS cars.
Sweet!!!!!!
~Scott~
12-18-2007 | 02:00 AM
#34
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Re: Giant turbo, 350 LS1 in a nova project
This all had been hashed out on Sy/Ty board. Each side has their own story of how it all went. I witnessed how each side acted at the event in person....and decided on my own based on their actions what was going on. It was kind of obvious.
BTW... he didn't use his bottle to go 9.0's there at KS Dragway.
So for coming out of the trailer and going consistant 9.0's I'd say he'd do well in headsup since his truck tends to pull it off every pass.
For his CID and streetability it's still the fastest AWD truck in this or any other country.
Anyway....Back to the real pourpose of this tread... (again) lol.....
Sounds like he's got a nice combo there... what's he planning on doing with the car? Should be totaly streetable with the parts list he's got there...
Sounds like some of the Stenoid performance guys setups in a way.. they all run real good numbers on their LS cars.
Sweet!!!!!!
~Scott~
BTW... he didn't use his bottle to go 9.0's there at KS Dragway.
So for coming out of the trailer and going consistant 9.0's I'd say he'd do well in headsup since his truck tends to pull it off every pass.
For his CID and streetability it's still the fastest AWD truck in this or any other country.
Anyway....Back to the real pourpose of this tread... (again) lol.....
Sounds like he's got a nice combo there... what's he planning on doing with the car? Should be totaly streetable with the parts list he's got there...
Sounds like some of the Stenoid performance guys setups in a way.. they all run real good numbers on their LS cars.
Sweet!!!!!!
~Scott~
I hope the next time Robert comes back, he chooses smarter, more experienced sponsors who take better care of him.
Regarding his truck. I agree it's impressive. I will also assume the nitrous was on for his passes. Why? Because I personally watched his buddy turn on the bottle. I hate to say it, but if you want anyone to believe you're not on the nitrous, you take the bottle out of the car. What about his water-meth? That's a power adder. You watched that truck run and you really think it was all turbo? I'm not so sure but it doesn't matter. A 9.0 at sea level with ladder bars, even if that was all turbo, would almost guarantee him a first round loss here in the states. There's no handicap for V6 other than a slight weight break. This is all provided he does something about his roll cage. If he shows up at a real event over here, they'll tell him how fast he can legally go, he'll get one warning if he breaks the rules. If he does it again, he'll be asked to leave. Just like in KC.
His offer to help "tune" John's truck is quite hilarious in fact. We knew John's truck was mortally and mechanically wounded on the first pass. I suspected so before he loaded it. Not only was Robert's offer a clear slap in the face, it would have been a waste of time. I told John to take the tree and drive down the track. That's the ethical thing to do and he did it, LEGALLY.
Back on track. My car is a street car. I'm trying my best to keep it that way. I'm sure you already know how tough and expensive that can be. Thanks for the feedback and trip back in time.
Cheers,
Aaron
12-18-2007 | 12:19 PM
#35
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 7,981
Likes: 85
From: DC Metro Area
Car: 87TA 87Form 71Mach1 93FleetWB 04Cum
Re: Giant turbo, 350 LS1 in a nova project
Where’s my lazyboy… I need some popcorn and a beer…
At least you guys have some cool pictures that I supposed have some technical merit in them… I guess…
At least you guys have some cool pictures that I supposed have some technical merit in them… I guess…
12-18-2007 | 07:12 PM
#36
Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
Re: Giant turbo, 350 LS1 in a nova project
Thought about not posted, but had to clear up a few things.
As the guy that helped Robert on the US side get his truck over here, transport it and make sure it got back I guess I have this side of the story.
#1 I never myself insulted or threatened any person from that side. That is not my style, never has, never will be. So if someone threatened damage to your vehicle or any property it didn't come from me or my few close friends, Robert of his friends either. I don't know what anybody else said nor can I control them either. But it wasn't done by my request or knowledge.
#2 There was several exchanges between myself and NHRA, and KCIR before the truck set down on US soil confirming things would be ok. In the end there was some "misunderstandings" between us. The fact is if you look hard enough you can find a reason to fail any "certified" car. We worried about ourself though, nobody else.
#3 There were a lot of assumptions made about what his truck did or didn't have. For one I heard John complain to syty people about him not having a tranny shield. Which if you really knew the truck it had. Again just assumptions.
#4 The NOS bottle was opened up, the plan was to use it. In the end it is manually triggered and Robert just plan forgot to use it on each run. So no it wasn't used. At the same time we were not hiding anything. Had it been used it was only a 50hp shot to begin with. We knew we only had 1 good run each day and it just didn't happen.
I personally told John he had done some great work and a good looking truck. I could tell he wasn't up to talking much with me by that time so I just left it at that.
For me all this is in the past, i don't hold grudges. Do I wish things went different sure.
Now rumor is Robert is looking to come back next year. I am sure if John is up for it we can arrange another race. I will assure you there won't be a cage issue this year.
As the guy that helped Robert on the US side get his truck over here, transport it and make sure it got back I guess I have this side of the story.
#1 I never myself insulted or threatened any person from that side. That is not my style, never has, never will be. So if someone threatened damage to your vehicle or any property it didn't come from me or my few close friends, Robert of his friends either. I don't know what anybody else said nor can I control them either. But it wasn't done by my request or knowledge.
#2 There was several exchanges between myself and NHRA, and KCIR before the truck set down on US soil confirming things would be ok. In the end there was some "misunderstandings" between us. The fact is if you look hard enough you can find a reason to fail any "certified" car. We worried about ourself though, nobody else.
#3 There were a lot of assumptions made about what his truck did or didn't have. For one I heard John complain to syty people about him not having a tranny shield. Which if you really knew the truck it had. Again just assumptions.
#4 The NOS bottle was opened up, the plan was to use it. In the end it is manually triggered and Robert just plan forgot to use it on each run. So no it wasn't used. At the same time we were not hiding anything. Had it been used it was only a 50hp shot to begin with. We knew we only had 1 good run each day and it just didn't happen.
I personally told John he had done some great work and a good looking truck. I could tell he wasn't up to talking much with me by that time so I just left it at that.
For me all this is in the past, i don't hold grudges. Do I wish things went different sure.
Now rumor is Robert is looking to come back next year. I am sure if John is up for it we can arrange another race. I will assure you there won't be a cage issue this year.
12-18-2007 | 08:54 PM
#37
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Re: Giant turbo, 350 LS1 in a nova project
Thought about not posted, but had to clear up a few things.
As the guy that helped Robert on the US side get his truck over here, transport it and make sure it got back I guess I have this side of the story.
#1 I never myself insulted or threatened any person from that side. That is not my style, never has, never will be. So if someone threatened damage to your vehicle or any property it didn't come from me or my few close friends, Robert of his friends either. I don't know what anybody else said nor can I control them either. But it wasn't done by my request or knowledge.
#2 There was several exchanges between myself and NHRA, and KCIR before the truck set down on US soil confirming things would be ok. In the end there was some "misunderstandings" between us. The fact is if you look hard enough you can find a reason to fail any "certified" car. We worried about ourself though, nobody else.
#3 There were a lot of assumptions made about what his truck did or didn't have. For one I heard John complain to syty people about him not having a tranny shield. Which if you really knew the truck it had. Again just assumptions.
#4 The NOS bottle was opened up, the plan was to use it. In the end it is manually triggered and Robert just plan forgot to use it on each run. So no it wasn't used. At the same time we were not hiding anything. Had it been used it was only a 50hp shot to begin with. We knew we only had 1 good run each day and it just didn't happen.
I personally told John he had done some great work and a good looking truck. I could tell he wasn't up to talking much with me by that time so I just left it at that.
For me all this is in the past, i don't hold grudges. Do I wish things went different sure.
Now rumor is Robert is looking to come back next year. I am sure if John is up for it we can arrange another race. I will assure you there won't be a cage issue this year.
As the guy that helped Robert on the US side get his truck over here, transport it and make sure it got back I guess I have this side of the story.
#1 I never myself insulted or threatened any person from that side. That is not my style, never has, never will be. So if someone threatened damage to your vehicle or any property it didn't come from me or my few close friends, Robert of his friends either. I don't know what anybody else said nor can I control them either. But it wasn't done by my request or knowledge.
#2 There was several exchanges between myself and NHRA, and KCIR before the truck set down on US soil confirming things would be ok. In the end there was some "misunderstandings" between us. The fact is if you look hard enough you can find a reason to fail any "certified" car. We worried about ourself though, nobody else.
#3 There were a lot of assumptions made about what his truck did or didn't have. For one I heard John complain to syty people about him not having a tranny shield. Which if you really knew the truck it had. Again just assumptions.
#4 The NOS bottle was opened up, the plan was to use it. In the end it is manually triggered and Robert just plan forgot to use it on each run. So no it wasn't used. At the same time we were not hiding anything. Had it been used it was only a 50hp shot to begin with. We knew we only had 1 good run each day and it just didn't happen.
I personally told John he had done some great work and a good looking truck. I could tell he wasn't up to talking much with me by that time so I just left it at that.
For me all this is in the past, i don't hold grudges. Do I wish things went different sure.
Now rumor is Robert is looking to come back next year. I am sure if John is up for it we can arrange another race. I will assure you there won't be a cage issue this year.
I'm glad to hear everyone doesn't hold a grudge. I'm also glad to hear you could tell that John and his friends were very frustrated. Nobody ever intended for things to happen the way they did, especially John. He is one of the most genuine nice guys you'll ever meet.
I, myself, look forward to seeing Robert succeed with his endeavors, both here and in Europe. I also want to see John get his truck running right and just go have fun.
Thanks again,
Aaron
12-23-2007 | 10:27 AM
#38
Supreme Member
iTrader: (7)
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,068
Likes: 1
From: Ohio, near columbus
Car: 89 iroc-z
Engine: 305tpi
Transmission: wc-t5
Axle/Gears: 10 bolt 3.08 posi (4 now)
Re: Giant turbo, 350 LS1 in a nova project
i bookmarked this a while ago, and have just lurked and read here and there, any more progress????
12-23-2007 | 04:26 PM
#39
Thread Starter
TGO Supporter
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,991
Likes: 1
From: Cheyenne, Wyoming
Car: 1992 B4C 1LE
Engine: Proaction 412, Accel singleplane
Transmission: built 700R4 w/custom converter
Axle/Gears: stock w/later 4th gen torsen pos
Re: Giant turbo, 350 LS1 in a nova project
just all the progress that I posted over the last week! 
07-16-2008 | 12:23 PM
#40
Thread Starter
TGO Supporter
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,991
Likes: 1
From: Cheyenne, Wyoming
Car: 1992 B4C 1LE
Engine: Proaction 412, Accel singleplane
Transmission: built 700R4 w/custom converter
Axle/Gears: stock w/later 4th gen torsen pos
Re: Giant turbo, 350 LS1 in a nova project
6 months has gone by and its FINALLY running, oh I forgot, he took a little time off to completely do the paint and body work! He is nuts!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_R7N8KX-08
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_R7N8KX-08
07-16-2008 | 04:53 PM
#41
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 268
Likes: 0
Car: 86 Turbo Camaro
Engine: 427LSX
Transmission: 4L80E
Axle/Gears: 9" 3:25
Re: Giant turbo, 350 LS1 in a nova project
I love the suttle looks and the engine bay turned out great!!!!!!!
Excellent work!
Thanks for the update!!!!!
Killer car!
~Scott
Excellent work!
Thanks for the update!!!!!
Killer car!
~Scott
Last edited by UR50SLO; 07-16-2008 at 04:59 PM.
07-17-2008 | 01:22 PM
#42
Senior Member
iTrader: (4)
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 872
Likes: 1
From: Weedsport, NY
Car: 1986 Camaro SC
Engine: Bolt-on/cam 305
Transmission: 700R4 w/ 2500stall
Axle/Gears: 3.73 10bolt Posi
Re: Giant turbo, 350 LS1 in a nova project
6 months has gone by and its FINALLY running, oh I forgot, he took a little time off to completely do the paint and body work! He is nuts!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_R7N8KX-08
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_R7N8KX-08
07-19-2008 | 05:17 PM
#44
Thread Starter
TGO Supporter
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,991
Likes: 1
From: Cheyenne, Wyoming
Car: 1992 B4C 1LE
Engine: Proaction 412, Accel singleplane
Transmission: built 700R4 w/custom converter
Axle/Gears: stock w/later 4th gen torsen pos
Re: Giant turbo, 350 LS1 in a nova project
Ok here are some pics:
Some of the car getting taken apart and some steel parts put back on:
http://www.titusracing.com/images/aa...body_work1.jpg
http://www.titusracing.com/images/aa...body_work2.jpg
http://www.titusracing.com/images/aa...teel_doors.jpg
firewall with the new seafoamy kind of color going on
here is the area removed for the exhaust pipe
he actually built a dash in two pieces so that the car retains a stock looking dash for the instrumentation. this also allows him to remove it for initial wiring, additions, changes, etc.
After he built all the hot parts, he sent them all off for this black ceramic coating. I don't remember exactly what it is, but he was pretty excited about it being some new deal.
Engine pictures:
(I cant convince some of these guys to stop date stamping)
This, is a cool part. A cable driven fuel pump.
YES! There is huge power takeoff cable coming from a cogged belt on an accessory drive (see the front engine pic above) that runs all the way to the rear of the car.
It usually takes two huge electric fuel pumps to supply a massive amount of fuel to power these kinds of beasts. Power for electric fuel pumps must first be either generated at high parasitic cost and then shipped to the pumps at high conversions losses.
For actual drag race cars some guys just use lots of battery they charge between rounds. Without either a massive thieving alternator, or without an alternator at all, you end up with a situation of diminishing returns. Your powerful ignition system doesn't fire as well, because the fuel pumps are grinding away all of your power right at the end of your pass when you need it most.
This pump is directly connected to the engine, with only the cable drive as the middle man. The higher the engine is revving, the more fuel being delivered. Its a win win.
I asked "well how long do they last?". The answer is actually longer than the electrics, which if you have driven any EFI race cars on the street, you will be familiar with the issues of monster electric pumps that worked great the first 6 months or year, but things go down hill from there. These cable drive pumps are used in endurance, off road, rally, and even a few circle classes. The first thing That would go would be the cable, and just like a bad speed cable, you will likely hear it for a long time before it goes out.
It also has an additional benefit, this is basically the kind of pump you would find mounted on the side of the engine. In this case it is at the rear pushing instead of pulling. This means fast prime. Just watch the video again. It only cranks like 2 rotations (it takes that long for the Bigstuff3 to find the spark index from the crank position anyways). By then the pump itself has probably made several rotations.
Some of the car getting taken apart and some steel parts put back on:
http://www.titusracing.com/images/aa...body_work1.jpg
http://www.titusracing.com/images/aa...body_work2.jpg
http://www.titusracing.com/images/aa...teel_doors.jpg
firewall with the new seafoamy kind of color going on
here is the area removed for the exhaust pipe
he actually built a dash in two pieces so that the car retains a stock looking dash for the instrumentation. this also allows him to remove it for initial wiring, additions, changes, etc.
After he built all the hot parts, he sent them all off for this black ceramic coating. I don't remember exactly what it is, but he was pretty excited about it being some new deal.
Engine pictures:
(I cant convince some of these guys to stop date stamping)
This, is a cool part. A cable driven fuel pump.
YES! There is huge power takeoff cable coming from a cogged belt on an accessory drive (see the front engine pic above) that runs all the way to the rear of the car.
It usually takes two huge electric fuel pumps to supply a massive amount of fuel to power these kinds of beasts. Power for electric fuel pumps must first be either generated at high parasitic cost and then shipped to the pumps at high conversions losses.
For actual drag race cars some guys just use lots of battery they charge between rounds. Without either a massive thieving alternator, or without an alternator at all, you end up with a situation of diminishing returns. Your powerful ignition system doesn't fire as well, because the fuel pumps are grinding away all of your power right at the end of your pass when you need it most.
This pump is directly connected to the engine, with only the cable drive as the middle man. The higher the engine is revving, the more fuel being delivered. Its a win win.
I asked "well how long do they last?". The answer is actually longer than the electrics, which if you have driven any EFI race cars on the street, you will be familiar with the issues of monster electric pumps that worked great the first 6 months or year, but things go down hill from there. These cable drive pumps are used in endurance, off road, rally, and even a few circle classes. The first thing That would go would be the cable, and just like a bad speed cable, you will likely hear it for a long time before it goes out.
It also has an additional benefit, this is basically the kind of pump you would find mounted on the side of the engine. In this case it is at the rear pushing instead of pulling. This means fast prime. Just watch the video again. It only cranks like 2 rotations (it takes that long for the Bigstuff3 to find the spark index from the crank position anyways). By then the pump itself has probably made several rotations.
Last edited by B4Ctom1; 07-19-2008 at 05:25 PM.
09-21-2008 | 07:05 PM
#45
Thread Starter
TGO Supporter
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,991
Likes: 1
From: Cheyenne, Wyoming
Car: 1992 B4C 1LE
Engine: Proaction 412, Accel singleplane
Transmission: built 700R4 w/custom converter
Axle/Gears: stock w/later 4th gen torsen pos
Re: Giant turbo, 350 LS1 in a nova project
He did a little walk around video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jx-FwZypnyA
He took it for a little cruise today. Set the ECM controlling the vavle to 17 psi. You can hear the valve actuating.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_G2eWE-5Rvc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jx-FwZypnyA
He took it for a little cruise today. Set the ECM controlling the vavle to 17 psi. You can hear the valve actuating.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_G2eWE-5Rvc
09-22-2008 | 09:52 PM
#46
Thread Starter
TGO Supporter
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,991
Likes: 1
From: Cheyenne, Wyoming
Car: 1992 B4C 1LE
Engine: Proaction 412, Accel singleplane
Transmission: built 700R4 w/custom converter
Axle/Gears: stock w/later 4th gen torsen pos
Re: Giant turbo, 350 LS1 in a nova project
Here are some fresh pics:
car today
Interior (liquid to air IC in background)
Liquid to air recirculation and cooling
engine
car today
Interior (liquid to air IC in background)
Liquid to air recirculation and cooling
engine
09-23-2008 | 04:13 PM
#48
Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 580
Likes: 0
From: Elk City OK
Car: 92 25th anv z28
Engine: 346 TC78 Turbo
Transmission: 4L80E
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9"Nodular, Strange axles
Re: Giant turbo, 350 LS1 in a nova project
That thing is insane! Love the old school green color. Kinda sleeperish..except for the tubs..lol
10-14-2008 | 01:18 PM
#49
Thread Starter
TGO Supporter
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,991
Likes: 1
From: Cheyenne, Wyoming
Car: 1992 B4C 1LE
Engine: Proaction 412, Accel singleplane
Transmission: built 700R4 w/custom converter
Axle/Gears: stock w/later 4th gen torsen pos
Re: Giant turbo, 350 LS1 in a nova project
NEWS!
Via a series of text messages just before bedtime last night I got the following news.
He took it to a chassis dyno, the Land-Sea brand dyno we used to have at our shop which is now at another shop. At the rear wheels it made 1208hp and 1057tq corrected and well over 1000 even raw uncorrected at only 17psi.
The full blown racing powerglide transmission or maybe the converter is now toast so they stopped the dyno session while they were just making noise but still working. He is going to pull the trans and tear it and the converter down. He runs a Neal Chance converter and it dissembles so that you can fix it or internally inspect it. He may be able to do this tonight but not sure when the next trip back to the dyno will be.
I texted and asked if they "gave him any media" I could post, and if he is "going back". He said, "I may go back. No sheets, I will get them to send me some. It sounded great at 8500, smooth too really smooth."
Via a series of text messages just before bedtime last night I got the following news.
He took it to a chassis dyno, the Land-Sea brand dyno we used to have at our shop which is now at another shop. At the rear wheels it made 1208hp and 1057tq corrected and well over 1000 even raw uncorrected at only 17psi.
The full blown racing powerglide transmission or maybe the converter is now toast so they stopped the dyno session while they were just making noise but still working. He is going to pull the trans and tear it and the converter down. He runs a Neal Chance converter and it dissembles so that you can fix it or internally inspect it. He may be able to do this tonight but not sure when the next trip back to the dyno will be.
I texted and asked if they "gave him any media" I could post, and if he is "going back". He said, "I may go back. No sheets, I will get them to send me some. It sounded great at 8500, smooth too really smooth."
10-16-2008 | 06:03 AM
#50
Thread Starter
TGO Supporter
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,991
Likes: 1
From: Cheyenne, Wyoming
Car: 1992 B4C 1LE
Engine: Proaction 412, Accel singleplane
Transmission: built 700R4 w/custom converter
Axle/Gears: stock w/later 4th gen torsen pos
Re: Giant turbo, 350 LS1 in a nova project
