junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

I started a 305ci TPI twin project. I made up one of the oil drain fittings & oil drain line today. I decided to dump the oil far back in the oil pan. I did a twin setup earlier this year and dumped the oil to the front of the pan. I don't really like that setup because it is trying to dump the oil right at the front crankshaft counterbalancer.
I pulled the pan and looked at where the idea oil drain locations for the two oil lines would be. The left side is dumped at almost the same spot as Vortech does with their superchargers. The right side is about 1" in front of the knock sensor coolant hole.

Here is a pic of the driver's side setup. It may help for anyone doing a custom setup. My setup is all junkyard hard parts. The drain line is -12 AN (11/16" inner diameter measured)

jwscab

That's kind of scary. I've been mocking up my own manifolds and system using an identical 305! I mean, its tired, and has the same patina on it! It literally looks exactly like the one I have in the stand. I love those valve covers, they are going on the engine. The one i have is extremely tired, and is only a mock-up, and parts engine. Will you be running with that engine in the picture?

can you give me some details on your oil line there? It looks like a 5/16" line. Any restrictors or anything?

what kind of turbos? any more details? looks good so far!

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

That 305ci is the test mule. I bought a thirdgen complete about two years ago. I backed it off the car trailer, warmed it up a minute, and did a brakestand......until the rear end went BANG. It was dumb but we all got a good laugh out of it. I decided to pull the engine after that and now it is just the fab engine.
Sadly, the 305ci in the truck right now looks pretty much like the one in the pic. The oil inlet line is 1/4" hard steel into a .060" hole restrctor (www.atpturbo.com - $14ea) at the turbo inlet. One oil inlet line comes from behind the intake manifold and one comes from above the oil filter. I made my own turbo inlet and outlet oil plates out of 5/16" thick steel. The drain uses 1" OD, 16ga. pipe at the turbo outlet with a -12AN steel fitting (www.speedwaymotors.com) welded onto the 1" pipe. I "port match" the -12AN weld fitting to the 1" pipe internally. Same pipe & fitting at the oil pan. The hose is aeroquip -12AN with straight ends (11/16" I.D.) The manifolds are 1986 Camaro TPI with 1/4" turbo boxes and 1/2" T3 flanges I made. They are port matched to the .48 A/R housings.

The twins are generic SAAB/Volvo 45 trim T3s w/ .48 A/R turbines (comp. inducer is 40mm (45trim compressor)) Both oil & water cooled. All watercooling lines are 3/8" hard steel. The downpipes will be 2.5" on each side to dual 2.25" exhaust. Intercooler will be two Volvo ICs welded together in parallel using 16ga. alum. sheet for the end tanks. Injectors will be Ford 30#/hrs and the ECM will be a GM 730ECM with the Syclone code in it. I plan on running about 5psi of boost. The current setup is MAF, so I have to re-wire it for the 730 MAP setup. The HP goal is anything more than it has right now. I already had the new injectors so the projected cost is about $1000 without the injector cost. The truck engine has 130K+ miles and I need to put some new valve seals in it & intake gaskets so I figured why not through a couple of small turbos on it too. I have the 305ci test mule as a backup, and 305ci are pretty cheap at the junkyard.

J

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

I did the complete turbo manifold welding today with heat & nickel rod.......HillBilly style.

Z69

What's with all the foam???

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

I didn't think anyone would notice that. I hosed the area down to keep the heat from escaping. It was kind of cold out that day and you aren't supposed to weld cast iron when then temps. drop.

Here they are fresh out of the oven the next morning.

Steven89Iroc

There's a lot more room in a truck than a thirdgen, huh.

I should convince my dad to do exactly that to his '95 Silverado. It's got 200k+ on the original TBI 350, but he made the rest of the truck nice and custom, and he tows a lot, so it'd be worth it.

Let us know if there was any "price creep" once you're done.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Yes, there is more room to some extent. The brake booster is still a pain to clear though. The truck A/C box is rather large. Both downpipes are 2.5" and kind of complex. There is A LOT of room in terms of side clearance with the inner fender wells and towards the radiator support.
I should have both downpipes done tomorrow. I hope to pull the engine, oil pan, and weld the fittings on the pan by the end of the day.
So far it is still on target for $1000 to $1200. I pre-bought most of the stuff. Some stuff is hard to judge though. I buy stuff in bulk like steel line, nuts, bolts, etc. I use the price for one when doing a build. That includes weld rod, cutting wheels, gaskets, every nut, etc.
I guess you could add $100 if not buying in bulk. The turbos & IC were JY pieces.

J

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Well, almost 2 years later the truck finally rolled out of the garage under its own power. I took it out for a test drive and one turbo started leaking oil at the center housing to turbine junction. The oil drain looked fine so I pulled the turbo and disassembled it. The turbine piston ring groove and exhaust was loaded with coked oil. A rebuild kit is on its way..........it never ends. Maybe I can find a decent pic to post.

The good part is that boost starts at 2000 RPM and it seemed to rev smoothly up to 5000 RPM at 5 PSI on 87 octane with 24* of timing.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

pic of the setup. The IC core measures 24"x12"x4.25". Those end tanks I made are big. That can on the passenger side is a breather tank that has 3 baffles in it and holds 1 quart of blow-by under the baffles. The brass piece by the manifold water neck is the check valve for the water/alky injection. It has a 10 GPH nozzle in it.

The driver's side turbo is now off and completley apart. It needs a rebuild. Those water lines are 3/8" steel tube.

327???

Looks good!

Did you TIG the end tanks?

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Nice, clean install .

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Both the end tanks and the oil breather tank were TIG welded. I used 1/8" thick 5052 aluminum plate for the end tanks.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

The first time turbo rebuild went smooth. The worst part was cleaning everything properly. The only thing I didn't like about the rebuild kit was that the thrust bearing was aluminum. I used my bronze thrust bearing because it had no wear on it. I also paid attention to how I clocked the piston seals and journal bearing C-clips.

I took it out for a few test runs and the thing is a blast. No more oil leaking out of the turbine. Boost comes in fast with the little turbos. The right side turbo oil inlet oil restrictor was leaking a little oil at the threads. I broke it off when I went to tighten it. That sucks.....waiting on new oil restictors now.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

I got around to testing out exhaust backpressure and IATs today. Interesting results with the bone stock 86 TPI 305ci (9.5:1 CR).

The biggest result is that you can't have too big of an aftercooler. After a little bit of tuning, boost was coming in at 1900 RPM with a 1000+ HP sized aftercooler. So much for the aftercooler affecting spool time. I think that with tuning it will be 1800 RPM or less on the stock converter.

The .48 A/R T3 turbines have a ratio of about 2.5 of exhaust backpressure to intake pressure. 2.5" downpipes to 2.25 dual exhaust with stock GM mufflers. Quieter than a new stock GM truck.

Ambient temps were 75* F. Before boost the IAT was 105* F with heat soak on the intake pipe. During boost the IAT dropped to 92* F at 4 PSI. Another plus for big aftercoolers.

Tested out the water/alky injection with 40% denatured alcohol. It allowed 4* more advance at low boost using 87 octane. Overall, 9.5:1 CR with 4 PSI on 87 octane. The end goal is 10-12 PSI on 87 octane, but I don't think it will work out.

Anyone else running boost with 87 octane?

Drac0nic

Very cool, I'm curious to see what she does in regards to power. I've got a 125K, but healthy 305 TPI in the garage I'm wanting to put a decent sized single on. Got a rough idea of how it feels power wise, or any rough quarter mile speeds? EDh yeah, you still have the peanut cam or did you cam er up?

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Right now it is at 4PSI of boost with IATs around 80* F. It makes around 250 - 275 HP and is slow. The end goal is 10-12 PSI and 400-440 FWHP and 13 mid-high sec ETs. It has the stock cam in it. It has a stock 700R4 which may not last with the 4500 lb rig.

It has a few weeks of tuning to go before it makes it to the track. It needs a posi unit installed during that time also. Smokes the tire very badly at 4PSI off the line. The torque is decent because boost comes on at 1800 RPM.

Still running 87 octane in it for the tuning stages.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

My brother’s LTD appears to be just as happy with 87 as it is with 92 (302, about 10psig boost, no intercooler, compression in the mid 8’s with aluminum TFS heads…). He usually runs 92 at the track just to be safe, but it’s spends most of it’s time on the street with 87 even a bunch of road trips.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

That is good that he can run 87 octane with that much boost. I wonder how much the heads help. My 355ci with 8.6:1 CR starts to rattle at around 8PSI and I had to pull about 7* of timing to go to 10 PSI. It wasn't worth it on that setup so I keep it at 8PSI. How much timing is he running at 10 PSI?

I did some more tuning on the truck tonight with the water/alky injection off. I have a fair amount of timing pulled out of the stock AXXF bin (1992 305ci A4 camaro). All the timing was pulled out of the N/A rpm and map KPa areas. The stock spark table wasn't designed for 87 octane and a 4500 lb rig. I have almost 10* pulled around 3200 RPM where the cam is most efficient. The stock spark curve has a bell shape and is now more flat and steadily increasing. I only have 2* degrees removed when the 4PSI of boost is added. At high RPM it doesn't mind having more spark, but around 3200-3600 RPM is gets sensitive.

Ambient temps were about 60* F so the IATs at the TB were about 70* F at 4 PSI. I can run a bunch more timing with the water/alky on but I am trying to tune it with it off. I plan on adding another switch that goes to the ECM that I can turn on to tell the ECM that the water/alky is on and add more spark and lean out the injector BPWs. I think I might be able to get this thing to run on 87 octane with water/alky injection and decent spark advance. Looking at the ALDL time vs. MPH datalogs it looks like it may squeak out a very high 13 sec run at 10PSI. Nothing impressive, but fun to play with.

EDIT: The 1/8" NPT .063" hole (oil) flow restictors from mcmaster-carr were half the price of the ATPturbo.com flow restrictors and the quality was twice as good. They are drilled properly and have more strength to them.

87 twin turbo

where is the pictures of the system?

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

They were removed because of admin. questions.

Still running 87 octane with 10% ethanol. Water/alky system is now running when boost is greater than 3 PSI. IATs have dropped about 20* F from the little injection that is added. The spray is windshield washer fluid with 20% denatured added to it. With AFR tuning the boost went from 3.6 PSI to 4.4 PSI without touching the wastegates. Boost starts at 1700 RPM and it drives like it is N/A. According to the datalogs it picked up about 20-30 HP from tuning. Wastegates will get cranked slowly to bring it up to 10 PSI.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

The tune is coming along. I removed the 10 GPH water/alky nozzle and replaced it with a 5 GPH nozzle. The wastegate rods were cut to add more threads so more boost could be added. 8 PSI was good so I put another 5 turns on the wastegates. OOoooppps, it brought the boost up to 16 PSI. The pass. side turbo had a slight noise to it only when hot. It was a strange fluttering noise. It sounded like a wheel may be hitting a housing. The compressor looked fine and it spun freely.

Pulled the turbo figuring the exhaust wheel is rubbing the housing a bit. Sure enough, it rubs in a area of .080" - .100" long where the housing has a heat crack. I clearanced it and decided to throw in the rebuild kit with new seals and journal bearings since there was a slight bit of coking.

It looks like the 87 octane and water/alky is going to work great at 12 PSI.

SpitotRs305

is that heat crack in a place it could be drilled/tapped? so you could get some threaded plugs in it... might stop it from getting bigger

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Nah, it can't be drilled. The heat cracks happen a lot with the .48 A/R Garrett housings. It is a superficial crack in terms of being air tight. The problem is that the housing changes shape a little bit and the tolerance is close at the exhaust wheel. I took some pictures of before and after in terms of cleaning it up. Once they crack they tend to keep that shape. Maybe I can post a couple pics tomorrow.

I had to clean up the driver's side turbine before I clocked it last year. The pass. side turbine was close so I left it. It just barely rubbed. Not enough to wear the wheel. The good thing is that now both turbos are rebuilt. All they really needed was the exhaust piston seal groove cleaned out, but I put in new seals and bearings while I was in there.

I might have time to bring it to the track this week. The goal is to get this 5000 lb truck (weighed with accurate scale with driver) to do a 13.xx ET with a stock 86 thirdgen TPI 305ci on 87 octane.

The crack is where the exhaust major diameter converges to the minor diameter.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

I have the turbo back on the engine. It is still making noise when it gets up to temperature and boost comes in. The center section bearing bores are worn so I think it allows too much play and the turbine wheel still rubs a little when going into boost. The comp. wheel looks fine. I need to order some oversize bearings. Always something new to mess with when playing with junk.

The replacement turbo from the junk yard was disassembled tonight. I measured the comp. wheel and it comes out to a 50 trim T3. I thought the units on the truck were 45 trims so I have to check it out tomorrow night. I hope they are 50 trims........that means I can up the boost some more without over-speeding the wheels.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

I checked the turbo end play once again. I thought it was loose but was in the middle of the spec. so I figured it must be a bad exhaust gasket causing the noise. After the turbo was off I checked the edges of the Percy Carbon XX exhaust manifold gasket and it looked like the center ports were blown out. Once the gasket was out it was clear where the noise was coming from. It was the gasket.

Looks like I have a spare turbo now. The two on it should be good for 100K-200K miles. It was a good learning experience. If you hear strange noises from a turbo check the gaskets first.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

So you have an extra rebuilt t3 50 trim? I know where it could be used , actually may be too small for what I want - got to look at the map.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

What were the reasons for removing the pics?

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

I got an extra, brand new, ebay inspired, GT66....

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

3rd gen motor, not in a 3rd gen would be my guess.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

If it is, that's effing lame. I get a lot of inspiration from other vehicles, hell I don't even own a third gen and I'm here anyway.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

No, it wasn't because it is not a thirdgen. My signature was in question and it has since been resolved. It was about copyright stuff. If you notice at the bottom of the thirdgen.org pages it says "all content copyrighted ....". Thirdgen.org does have copyrights to all their stuff, but not to what pics or words that a user posts. The user has copyrights to their words and pics, not thirdgen.org.

Moving on.........I will post up some pics this week sometime. I disassembled the "extra" turbo and started cleaning it up. The thrust & journal bearings are well within spec. so I am just going to clean out the exhaust seal groove and any other coking. This turbo seems to have low miles on it. I am going to keep it as a spare just in case something goes wrong down the road. Firstfirebird, it is too small for a 2.8 or larger V6.

Tuned the truck some more today. I have it up to 12 PSI of boost on 87 octane and I spray it with a 150 PSI shurflo pump running a 75% duty cycle with a 5 GPH nozzle (6.2 GPH at 150 PSI). The ECM controls the pump and ramps the duty cycle from 0% at 3.5 PSI to 75% at 12 PSI of boost. The ECM does a pulse width modulation to a fuel/fan/MAF TPI relay that runs 12V to the pump. It works surprisingly well. I have been running -20* Faren. windshield washer fluid with some denatured added to it. The washer fluid is about 30% methanol according to the MSDS datasheet so I add another 20% of denatured to it. A gal. of washer fluid is $1.25 and a gallon of denatured is $13. So it comes out to $3.85 for a gallon of 50/50 water/alky.

The wastegates have quite a bit of preload on the springs to get 12 PSI of boost. It has .25 PSI of boost at 1700 RPM now with the wastegates tightened up. The pre-aftercooler IATs are about 155* F with a 70* ambient temperature. At the intake manifold the IAT is 70 to 80* F with the water/alky on. I was measuring exhaust backpressure with a diesel 3-bar MAP sensor, but it croaked today. I guess it couldn't take the heat. I am going to mess with it this week so see what failed. It is stuck so that it is showing max. pressure all of the time.

I don't plan to up the boost anymore. The injector duty cycle is at 91% with the Ford 30#/hrs and I think the stock GM TPI fuel pump is close to its GPH limit at stock fuel pressure. The compressor flow is right around 70% efficiency. The spark plugs look perfect and I have the AFR at 11.6 - 12.0 under boost. That is for 10% ethanol gas. That translates to 12.1 - 12.5 AFR for straight gas. At 12 PSI, Spark advance at 3200 RPM is 2* and at 5000 RPM it is 9*. I could make a lot more power if put 93 octane in it and increased the timing.
----------

Is that the T-70 GT66 or the GT45 GT66? From what I have read the T-70 has a 60 - 62 mm inducer and the GT45 has a 69mm inducer. The 1.05 A/R T4 turbine on the GT45 seems kind of big for a V6, but the T-70 .84 A/R turbine would be more streetable.

What is the GT66 you have going on?

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Finally got in a couple 1/4 mile runs:

Vehicle weight with driver: 5000 lb
Ambient temperature: 55* F
stock rear tires at 35 PSI
Posi rear with 3.73 gears
stock 700R4 trans, NP208 transfer case
stock 1986 A4 TPI 305ci with 130-150K miles
93 octane
12* of timing at 3600 RPM
18* of timing at peak RPM (5000 RPM)
9 PSI of boost (two T3 50 trim, .48 A/R turbines)
2.25" dual exhaust through turbo mufflers

Two runs of 15.0 at 91 MPH
Massive wheel spin in first, let off a bit to hook
Shift at 4800-5000 RPM, any higher gave a slower ET and MPH

The MPH and time would equate to a 13.4 ET in a thirdgen at 3600 lb in case anyone wants to turbo a stock 305 ci TPI engine. Boost starts at 1700 RPM.

vwdave

Wait a second, its 4WD??? Why didnt you launch in 4WD with some brake boost?

Anyways, I wonder how nasty of a tow rig this would be. Especially if its tuned for 87. Put some 93 in it and see how it will tow a 3rd gen.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

It is 4WD, but the transfer case has over 300K miles on it and I don't want to take the chance of breaking the chain. I was tempted to try 4WD at the track but knew I needed the truck to be running in order to get home.

With the low RPM boost it works great as a tow rig. If the engine lasts another winter then I might put a bigger cam in it this spring. It has the 178/194* duration @ .050", 109 LSA stock cam in it. I was thinking of trying something like a 204/214* @ .050", 112 LSA

vwdave

LT1/4?

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

So the pics are gone because of the copyright notice? I got into it with trent over at turbomustangs, basically pointing out that _he can’t_ make that claim to other people’s “work” and stopped posting anything all that useful for a while. It turns out that the reason that the copyright notices are popping up is that new forum sites are popping up grabbing other forum site’s databases/threads to quickly increase their search results….

I don’t know if it’s settled, but if it is how about some pics of the setup/truck?

As far as 4wd/transfer case… that’s one of those things that makes me nervous and has always gotten me into trouble. The nervous part is that I know people have done it at the track, but with no differential any steering correction at serious speed could result in disaster. That and in most cases the front axles on these things are not that strong, they’re there for extra traction, not serious abuse.

My ’92 blazer didn’t seem to have any issues with doing burnouts even with 33” tires and 3.42 gears, but of course I had to make it more fun by rigging a separate front axle actuator switch which could disable the front axle actuator, so with it disabled and the transfer case in 4LO I actually had a 2LO with an extra 2.72 gear ratio worked in there for just plain stupid fun. (I actually did it for more maneuverability with a trailer hooked up)

Took me less than a day to blow up the gears in the truck.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

It is a non-roller block. The cam I was looking at was an Elgin grind offered by competitionproducts.com. The cam,lifter,spring, and etc is $130. I am not sure how good the springs are but the springs in it now can't be that good.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

I haven't received a response from the PM I sent back after getting the initial PM from the admin.
I will not post pics or any half decent info. until I get a response. The thing about the people buying these boards is that they don't understand copyright laws and think they are buying users writing. When I joined it was run by a non-profit org. Like many other boards things have changed. I understand the feelings of not wanting other new boards using the info, but the authors have the copyrights, not the boards.

I broke a rear end yoke and driveshaft back in the day doing a 4-LO burnout without the front hubs locked on 2.56 gears. I learned my lesson from that.

I installed a couple of Dynomax 17769 mufflers (3" pipe super turbos) on the truck the other night(s). The D-side had rotted and was leaking before the tailpipe on the orig. setup. The new mufflers are the highest flowing of the Dynomax turbo series. One of the quietest also. That is why I chose them.
With the old mufflers I was getting 11 PSI of boost with an ambient temp. of 45* F. With the Dynomax mufflers it is now at 15 PSI of boost at 45* F ambient. It picked up 4 PSI of boost. Enough to blow out an exh. manifold gasket again. I need to figure out why it blew again.