CrazyHawaiian

Yup that is good advice. After having my engine catch on fire before (and someone else saving my butt), I realize how important an extinguisher is. Now I always carry one with me when I go drifting.

I wanted to goto the yard today but we got rained out. Hopefully tomorrow...

Duck

The Fort Shafter yard is open Fri-Sun. Schofield is Wed-Sun. Guess you'll be climbing the fence? BTW, great stance with those big wheels on the red Camaro. Best looking drift car I've seen!

91RSHawaii

K guys, bought a 160 thermostat n got the gasket, but have had one hell of a time trying to take the thermostat already on the car off. I took off the radiator hose, and was able to get the exposed bolt to the left of the tpi plenum lose, but i simply cannot reach the second bolt underneath the throttle body..... anyone got tips on how to reach it?

pvt num 11

Erm... I did the T-stat change, and yup, it's a pain. L98, right? Take the air ducting off the throttle body, that helps so you can see what the heck is going on. 12-point combination wrench may get at it, once you have the ducting off. The silly TB will still be in the way, but it worked for me.. 160, that's a bit low, isn't it? *shrug*

Air box? Setup with a K&N filter? Hey, cool. I was just considering putting some holes in the stock box for some extra flow - not that it would do terribly much, that is. PM on the way!

I want a fire extinguisher. I've been wanting one. Just never got around to getting it. No excuse, though.

3rdGenBlackBird

Checker sells a cheapo extinguisher (I think a 2-pack). Don't know how well they work... but maybe I'll test one of them soon. I need to pick one up for my firebird this weekend.

Scott

pvt num 11

Two? Great, I have two cars I'm keeping. The Firebird is gong to be sold (soon, really) and I'll be back to having only two vehicles. Until I get a house.

3rdGenBlackBird

Since they are coming from checker, there are probably 2 so you can test one first hehe. I don't know if they are a one-shot-toss deal or if you can recharge/refill them.

I've never had problems with stuck hoods before. All you need is a half-inch to get your hand in there and pull. If it's stuck ya' just aren't pullin' hard enough. My dart was like that until I realized one of the brackets was bent to hell.

So, who's planning to go back to finish off that firebird? I think I'll go scrounge up a few more things from it.

Scott

91RSHawaii

k guys... i took off the throttle body assembly, and put it to the side w/ the throttle cable attached, then got the bolt off, n put on the new thermostat, replaced all the hoses etc.

Start the car up..... it idles at 3000 rpm now... kinda funky, i dont even have to push the gas anymore, total pain in the *** to drive....

anyone have an idea whats up w/ the car?

3rdGenBlackBird

Hahah! Sounds like fun! Try playin' around with the throttle cable. Do these cars have TPS? Just mess around with anything that touches the throttle cable to see if it shifted or is binding. If it's fine, check the throttle plates. If that's fine, check for vacuum leaks. If those are fine... check if anyone put a curse on you recently.

When you test drove it, did it respond normally after you put the gas pedal down far enough? Did you try to 'blip' it to get the idle to settle down? My cable sticks a little on the pivot arm on the carb. I just blip it once or twice to steady my idle. Might be better to just grease the damn thing.

Scott

CrazyHawaiian

Yeah I've always removed the throttle body when doing t-stat swaps. Just makes everything easier to get at. Its important to make sure the old gasket is completely removed for a good seal so I need as much room as possible (big meaty fingers haha). There are quite a few connections on the throttle body that could cause weird idle issues. I would double check all the connections on the throttle body. I would also pull the codes and see if any sensors are broken (like the TPS).

Yeah those Checkers cheapo extinguishers are the ones I got (the two for $20 or something). I was having some fun behind HRP one night and saw a fire on the side of the road (burning boxes). What better time to try one out right? Shot it at the fire but it kept burning. I couldnt believe how weak the extinguisher was. Definately a one shot deal. If you missed you'd be screwed. I ended up putting the fire out with my water jug (that I also always carry with me hehe). Still looking for a good cheap smaller sized extinguisher.

I'll probably be visiting that firebird on Friday. I didnt know the yard was closed certain days of the week. My friend knows one of the guys that work there and he said it was cool (didnt mention it being closed) but then the rain came. Not sure if we woulda got hooked up or rejected. Hope it dosnt rain alot of Friday!! hahaha

91RSHawaii

could it be a vacuum leak, the attachment from the vacuum hose to the block came loose, so all i did was pop it back in... also, could a loose hose be causing this?

91RSHawaii

or, could i have possibly plugged the tps sensor in wrong?

acescarrsRS

Might be either the TPS out of adjustment or broken, or like you said, a vacuum leak. Hope you get it fixed.

pvt num 11

You removed the TB? Ouch. A bit much work for me to do for a T-stat... Hope it went together okay... Any leftover parts?

3rdGenBlackBird

You guys watch Trucks? I bet you do, Shawn. Did you see that product that you pour and mix water into then add compressed air for your extinguisher? It can even be used for cooling intakes and for keeping welded metal cool. Cold fire or something like that, am I even close? Anyway, seemed like a very good product. Not sure if it's cost effective, but after your glowing checker extinguisher review, I'll keep looking for an alternative.

I'm planning to be there friday morning before class. There are a couple more things that I might grab, depending on how easily I can get them apart and if I can get them to fit in my car.

[edit]
Also, if your buddy knows someone who works there, maybe we could get some advanced notice on incoming f-bodies, eh?

Scott

91RSHawaii

ok, solved it was a vacuum leak.. but the car is still now overheating slightly... maybe waterpump this time? oh well idk it runs fine enough for now, ill take it in soon for a tune up.

3rdGenBlackBird

Before you take it in, you should go through all the easy and obvious stuff on your own. You'll learn a lot more and save some cash. Take it in for harder things if you have to.

I'd go through a service manual for overheating diagnostics first. Make sure your fans are pulling LOTS of air. Not just blowing, but forcing air through. Make sure you air damn is in good shape. You probably scrape it up a lot on your hill. I smash mine all over the place in my work parking garage and on huge speed bumps. It's designed to hit and it should be fine, but it might be loose or bent or something.

How's your coolant look? Try flushing it out or running straight water for a couple of days to see if that helps. Check all your hoses; if in doubt take it off and inspect it really well. If it looks good, just clean it and put it back on. If it sucks, take it with you when you buy a new one. Check your radiator cap, it needs to hold pressure. After all that, you can start looking at your radiator and water pump.

How do your plugs look? Checking your plugs and vacuum are the easiest ways to test your engine's condition.

Who's helping you learn/work on your car? Are you learning by yourself? If you are, just don't be afraid to take something apart, as long as you remember exactly how it goes back together. The less time you spend disassembling something, the longer you'll probably spend reassembling it.

Either way, sounds like you're getting more serious about fixing her up. Also, don't be afraid to ghetto-rig something if you really need to git 'er done!

Back on topic, how was the radiator/e-fan on the '86 t/a?

Scott

Duck

Yeah, good advice. Learn by doing. That's what we all do. On a new job where I'm unsure how something works I shoot lots of digital photos [like fixing the loose tilt steering wheel].

Keola -- so why was your car overheating in the first place? Just low on water? And just because you installed a 160-degree thermostat, don't think your car will operate at that temp, it won't. Typically, it will be 190 if everything is OK. If you want it lower there's other mods you'll have to do. Ummm, bet you need to flush the cooling system and install new coolant and a bottle of Purple Ice. Ed

CrazyHawaiian

I want to know if it overheats at freeway speeds or in stop and go traffic. Also, what temp does it get to when it overheats? Full on puffing smoke and spitting water?

91RSHawaii

Well, it overheats in stop n go traffic, and when my radio is on... kind of strange... but now it doesnt really overheat, i put in some more water n coolant, and now it runs consistently at 220 on the gauge... however, it does somewhat heat up still when the radio is on, it would jump out to maybe 235ish... kind of wierd. also, it runs a lot cooler if I drive faster... Airdam?

3rdGenBlackBird

I think what he is getting at is, how often is it really bad where you need to pull over? You may have a overheating problem that isn't as bad as you think, plus a faulty gauge which is scaring you even more. Since you radio seems to affect it, you might have a less-than-perfect gauge.

If it's your air dam, it would probably overheat on the highway also. (Correct me if I'm wrong, anyone.) How is the fan?

Still planning to be at the yard tomorrow. Rain or shine... not if it's flooding though. Or, if it's too sunny....

Scott

Duck

Make sure the fans come one and that the air deflector is attached under the car. 220 is too hot, IMO...

BTW, if you're stuck in traffic and the engine is overheating, you can cool it a bit by turning on the heater full blast...

Duck

Don't think I'll be at the Fort Shafter yard Saturday. Remember, to buy parts you'll have to show a military ID card. Hey, you can still enlist!

Cooling when the car is moving is always better, air dam or no air dam. Before I changed my radiator, my engine was prone to overheating, and I noticed that if I revved the engine while the car wasn't moving it would "spike" into overheating right away, but if I let it idle it would not overhead. I think it has to do with the cooling fans being electric and not mechanical. Anyway you look at them, the Camaro cooling fans and lack of ducting is deficient at best... Someday, I'll get the SPAL fans just because.

CrazyHawaiian

How cool does it get when you drive faster on the freeway? Below 220 right? In theory it should maintain the temp of your thermostat with enough airflow to the radiator. All my cars with 180 stats maintain 180 degrees when I'm on the freeway going 50+. The stock fan switch turns the fans on at 235 deg. I think if you install a lower temp fan switch (or burn a new PROM) you'll be able to keep the car at a lower temp in stop and go. Be aware that this will increase the useage of the fan which decreases its life. So kind of a tradeoff, you can keep the car cooler but the fan motors will burn out faster. My 89 IROC has a 180 stat, aluminum radiator, and stock fan switch. It sounds like it acts alot like your car. On the freeway at higher speeds its maintains 180. In stop and go it will stay around 220 (even with the upgraded radiator). When it reaches 235 I can hear the fans turn on and the temp goes back down to 220, continues the cycle. I plan to burn a new PROM for the IROC that turns the fans on at 190 instead of 235. My 91 Z28 has a 180 stat and a 180 fan switch. The car maintains 180 in stop and go because the fans are always on. They are also always on while driving at higher speeds on the freeway. I'm really good at changing fan motors, they are around $30 from NAPA. Hahahaha!! I like to keep my car below 220 because it gives me a bigger buffer as far as overheating.

Another option is running a different mix of coolant fluid. A $7.95 bottle of Redline Water Wetter dosn't hurt. I like to run majority distilled water, little bit of the green stuff for lubrication, and two bottles of water wetter.

If you want I can probably burn you a PROM to fix the fan issue. I'm gettn the laptop this weekend and then all I need is the ALDL cable. I got all the other tools. You'll need to buy a Moates ZIF socket for your ECM, I think its like $15 but then you can hotswap chips. I'll also need to copy the stock BIN from your car.

I'll be at the yard in the afternoon, 2-4ish. My friend will have his ID. We're not gonna pull the trans that day but I am gonna pay for it and pull the numbers off the rearend. I'm assuming the codes are covered in layers of road grime so I'm bringing a bottle of Mineral Spirits and some rags (and a chiltons to identify it). I'm hoping its a 3.45 ratio 9 bolt too. Cant believe how much the brand new 3 series diffs are for the 9 bolt ... madness ....

Duck

Yep, exactly right on target about the process of cooling, that is getting away from the 235-degree GM target. Heh, doesn't matter how much capacity the radiator has to transfer heat if it's forced to hold it in by not moving coolant and air through it!

In the days of mechanical fans, we never really thought much about air flow, 'cause the fans just did their own thing and were only a problem when they disintegrated at high rpm, or impacted timing lights during tuneups. Lots more options with electric fans, such as for cars driven 10 hours a day coast-to-coast adding a manual fan switch to turn them off while cruising at 80 mph.

BTW, I'm desperate to learn prom burning and have an extra 1227165 Mass Air ECM. It's from a '86 FB, so the memcal is probably the buggy one anyway. There's a couple of things I'd like to change on my Hyperchip memcal too, like omitting the EGR check...

I'd like to look over your shoulder during a burn and acquire the tools to do it. I know Scott would be interested too. I'll PM you my cellphone.

Ed

pvt num 11

Our computers are tree-huggers. Getting a chip even with stock hardware would probably be a good thing, in terms of performance. I'd like a lower fan temp, too. I supose that when I Super-ram my car, I'll have to get a totally custom PROM, in order to cover the new fuel and spark maps. I may go get some PROM-burning stuff in hte next year or so, and play around with it some, while the motor is still stock.

3rdGenBlackBird

Shoot. Too wet....

Duck

Saturday will be sunny and warm... Light mauka showers from time to time....

CrazyHawaiian

No worries about the PROM thing, I welcome anyone who is interested to check it out. I picked up the laptop today, pretty sweet (it was free woohoo!). Gonna go load TunerCat R-T soon ... I'll let you guys know when the ALDL cable gets here and I start doin stuff for reals.

Yeah it was raining hard but we went anyway. Layed down in a river and jacked the car up onto stands hahaha. I pulled the VIN and ran it through this website because a 86 LB9 car with a T5 and a BW rear didnt match up with the Tech Data page. Sure enough it was an original 86 LB9, so unless someone swapped in that T5 or rearend, I guess the Tech Data page is not completely correct. Who knows what team Exorcist was capable of right? LMAO!! I got under the car and attempted to get info on the rearend gear ratio. I located the tag on the dif housing and tried to clean it for about 20 minutes while laying in the river, still couldnt make out the codes. Didnt feel right ripping it off since I didnt pay for it so the tag is still there. I pulled the rest of the codes from the dif housing but haven't compared them to my chiltons yet (which seems to be missing). Unfortunately this will only let us know if its posi or not (which I'm assuming it is since it has discs). I also tried to locate the RPO sheet which can help us find the ratio, but its not in the center console, and the rear glove box door is missing! No RPO's for us!! I think our only chance to find out the rear ratio is to super-clean diff tag and somehow decipher it. I pulled the numbers off the T5 and sure enough its not the World Class one (figgures). I'm gonna be dropping it next week Saturday anyway. I'm also considering pulling the LB9 heads and those skinny headers. Weird thing though, the pass side head looks like someone did whacky stuff to it (blocking off passages?), so not sure about that. The headers look small but I'm gonna grab em for Tracy's LB9 project anyway. See you guys there next week Sat?

On a side note, there are some other interesting cars in that yard. I couldnt believe there were two Buicks with the 3.8T motors. So who wants to swap one of those into a F-Body?? hahaha. I only looked at one of em (couldnt open the hood on the other) but it was the carb'd version, meaning its the crappiest version of the 3.8T setup, forget about that one. Maybe the other one is the better version? I pulled the VIN's so I'll find out. There's also a MK3 Supra Turbo with what seems to be a complete 7MGTE setup with intercooler and everything still intact. I could imagine some interesting hybrid swaps there, maybe AE86 Corolla with a 7M?? Bet that sucker would be fast!

3rdGenBlackBird

Glove box door was in there before, nothing on the back of it. Keola dug it up and checked. I don't know what the 9-bolt tag even looks like, so I thought it wasn't there. I thought the car might have been an '87 because of the tpi/t5/9-bolt, but it's got the '86 brake light and no one would ever swap that ON to his car.

Those headers do look really skinny. Probably dirt cheap though. So, how'd you like that interior?

If tomorrow isn't bad, I'd like to go but since I can't legally purchase anything I take apart, there's no point if no one else is goin'. I'm down for next week also.

I didn't even look around at the other cars... I might raid those turbo regals for a friend of mine. He's got a non-intercooled carb'd TR, and I know he wants anything better. As far as that MK3, you'll have to explain that gibberish to me one day since I have no idea what you said- darn toyotas.

If anyone who can legally purchase crap from the yard is goin' tomorrow or this weekend, give me a shout. My cell is 398-7193, call anytime.

Scott

[edit] Shawn, your pm box is full.

Duck

Ok, looking forward to PROM night, heh. Does the software require DOS, Win3.1, or will it run on XP...

According to the timing slips that Scott found in the car, they were capable of a ripping 17 secs in the 1/4! Ack, should have stayed in the stands.

If you pull the differential cover, the ratio is stamped on the gears, also it's easy to count the teeth. Hope it's a Series 3.

pvt num 11

Goodness. My WIFE knows that 17's are snail speeds... Shawn, I'm cleaning my living room out, I still have that seat I stole from you. Maybe I can get it to you sometime before too long, eh?

91RSHawaii

lmfao team exorcist... that sure is one totally messed up firebird.... but yeah 17 second 1/4 mile on a LB9 T-5 Combo.... Driver maybe...? Hehehe i bet i could pull off a 18 sec run in my car, gotta get better w/ this stick hehe...

Yep, the car did overheat again today though... going up my hill... but, the temp really goes up when the radio is on. kind of strange.. i think my coolant mixture is totally messed up, im gonna flush it n fill it again to see what can be done.

91RSHawaii

ok, my car is ahem... wierd. I had filled the cooling system w/ fluid on sunday, and after driving it down my hill today to school, the system was massively overheating.. so i pop the hood, take the cap off, and voila... theres nothing in the radiator.... so I dump some more in there, fill it up, let the motor idle, ok.. it runs fine... but then it gets progressively hotter, n then the fans kick in.. but, only one fan is spinning. Thus, when Im driving in stop and go traffic, i get to watch my car overheat until i can get moving... I'm wondering if my thermostat could still be faulty.... aside from the non working fans, which are a problem, id like to know for sure if my thermostat is working. anyway i can check it without disassembling my car again?

3rdGenBlackBird

Lucky ya' got the dual fan setup. I don't know the exact numbers but I'm just goin' to guess as if I know what I'm talking about. One fan should turn on at around 180~190 degress and the second at 220. Maybe the first one is on sooner or always, I don't think so though. I believe turning the ac on will make both come on to help the condenser. Though, usually you turn the heater on max.

Go run your engine (top off your reservoir first) and keep an eye on the gauge. After a few minutes (or based on the gauge readings) go feel the radiator hose (be careful if the car's already been running). You should be able to feel if hot water is circulating through it. If water is flowin', your 'stat is workin'. It may or may not agree with your gauge readings, and it's supposed to (be fully) open/close at different temperatures anyway.

Since you have two fans, I highly suggest you wire at least one (your secondary) to a switch. I only have the single fan, but I am planning to wire a switch with a LED (or two) so I don't forget to turn it on or off. Right now it's wired to be always running with the key in the 'on' position.

Now... why wasn't there any coolant in your radiator? You sure you don't have a leak? Keep it full enough so you can watch it through your overflow revervoir. Check on it daily if you have to....

Scott

3rdGenBlackBird

Oh, I forgot to finish your fan thing. If you're overheating then both <i>should</i> be on. There is a temp switch on the head. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that's what controls the second fan. I think the switch is on the driver's side head. Maybe it's bad.

Have you seen both fans on before? Can someone correct or confirm the ac turning both fans on thing? That'd be the easiest way to test it. Otherwise just ground the switch or the fan motor.

Hope that helps... if any of it is accurate info.

Scott

91RSHawaii

yeah, ive seen both fans on before, but a while ago when the car overheated, that fan was smoking pretty badly..... not too sure what to make of it though.

CrazyHawaiian

I would top off the radiator and move the car to a dry location. Let the car idle until it starts to heat up. Have someone else sit in the drivers seat while you visually inspect the engine bay. Have them tell you when it reaches 235. Both fans should turn on at 235. If one does not turn on then the fan motor is probably burnt out. They cost around $30 from NAPA jobber price and I can show you how to replace it. Also visually inspect under the car to see if it drops fluid. If it does leak, try to find the source. Our cars are old and if the hoses are old they might have hairline cracks. Check the main hoses from the radiator to the motor for pressure (squeeze them, they should be pressurized).

To test the thermostat take the car for a drive on open roads. Does the temp get close to the advertised temp of your stat? If you have a 160 stat for example, but the temp remains at 200 while driving 60mph then you might have a problem. Only flaw for this test is it could also indicate a bad radiator.

Once you verify both fans work, a lower temp fan switch will probably solve your problem. I'd get it from Ron's.

acescarrsRS

If you need new fan motors Keola, I have 2 complete fans from an IROC that I parted out a while back. I need to verify that they still work & if they do you can have both for $30 if you want.

91RSHawaii

Well, took my Camaro up on a lift today, and went to work. Fabricated a new torque arm bushing, changed the oil, lubricated the rear end, and found that one of my fans totally melted itself to the mounting braket... kind of scary. So, to remedy this, I picked up a fan from an S-10, fixed a crosspiece to the existing mounting bracket, bolted it down, and spliced the wires into the existing wires... result.. fixed cooling problem, and I can now actually launch the car without risking permanent damage hehe.... progress going along smoothly. got a paint quote today 1700 bucks, im going to have to start saving up.. lol I've decided on a midnight blue.

Duck

Wow! Great progress. Here's an easy way to have the fans operate at lower temps, since you've already changed the thermostat.

Duck

Always good to have a spare ... if Keola only wants one, I'll take the other!

3rdGenBlackBird

Nice work. Most of your problems gone now? Better interior, no electrical or overheating problems, fixed mounts, savin' up for paint. Does she feel better with that bushing in? You should have and easier time getting up your driveway now.

Put some better tires on the back soon so you'll add safety and enjoyment. Make sure to smoke off your two worst tires first!

I'm worries about my one and only fan now, since it's always on....

By the way, midnight blue is wicked. If I had a Mag R/T, it'd be MB. And the '05 Goats are getting MB added to their other 2 blues. (Or maybe the lighter one is being replaced....) Sweetest factory blue ever, period.

Scott

Duck

Here's a graphic showing the arrangement parts in a BW 9-bolt, a preview of a new DIY article in the making for a GM tech specializing in reparing the posi cones.

3rdGenBlackBird

Awesome, thanks Ed!

91RSHawaii

Yep mostly all of my problems gone.. but the car still cannot make it up the driveway.. awkwardly strange... probably somethings messed up. Driving the Z now, makes it feel like a totally different car w/ that bushing in... night and day difference, driving standard is soo easy now hehe...

Finally can launch the car now... long smokey burnouts hehe, using up those ****ty warrior tires... are 225s messing me up?

3rdGenBlackBird

Not as much as the "warrior" part. You have 15's?

Duck

FYI those with BW 9-bolt rears can access some repair info, there's also a link to the high-resolution tech file on the Duck-site.

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=269656

3rdGenBlackBird

Thanks!!

I won't go that deep into my "new" borg-warner, but I will dump out the old fluid and look it over. In goes RP 75W90.

Scott

acescarrsRS

You mean this rear? Hey Scott, I lost the u-bolts that hold the sway bar clamps down on the rear. Sorry man If you don't want to reuse your old ones I'll try & find a new set for you. Laterz.

Anthony