skinny z

Plenty of information out there. That said I'd like to pull it all into one pile and sort through it.
The subject:
82 Camaro Coupe
3500 race weight (w/ driver)
3.73 rear gear
3800 Edge converter
4L60
Stock suspension (other than LCA relocation brackets and Air Lift Drag Bags)
My racing history has generally been test and tune days. The pertinent take away from that is low track prep. Not always but generally I'd guess to say.
Other history has been Mickey Thompson ET Streets. A bias-ply 26" x 10" DOT legal slick. My current set is aged and the 60's have been progressively worse although there could other factors in that result as well. My current best is a 1.70 flat. That however was a 3.27 rear gear and McCreary Track Star treaded dirt rack tires. (True story).
Now, with the new engine, transmission and converter, I need to get new boots.

The general thinking is that with a low prep traction limited surface, the bias-ply offers a better chance of hooking up. Thoughts on that?
A radial isn't out of the question, especially for the occasional street tour but I'm not wanting to sacrifice my track performance for a better "feel" on the street. The MT ET Street SS is on the short list.
Note: I'll be running an IROC 16" wheel so that limits a few options.

What are your collective experiences in this?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Problem with the mickey radials is street use is gonna harden them. Fresh they grip like no other even on marginal tracks. The power you are talking about they should work fine if car is setup right for them. But street driving with feather them. You would need to constantly clean them up with a burnout to get rid of that layer. And then they dont last too long. Overall i wouldnt be concerned with the grip level if you keep up with that regiment. I know on my 295 et street ss, my 60’s started to suffer and required longer than usual burnouts at track to get rid of the crackling feathering layer and find good rubber. Also noticed car didnt hook as much power on street. So thats the expectation

a pro bracket radial would hook more consistently on lower prep but not a street tire i would run

I havent had an et street bias in a decade but i did like them, but radials always felt smoother to me. Any soft tire will have street induced hardening and feathering of the surface. Bias included but they would likely hook better on less than optimal tracks.

that said, our local track has gone downhill since they redid the surface and starting line in new concrete. It never did take down a good rubberbase layer and they do not use much glue. Its a radial nightmare now and quite a few guys moved to slicks. And it still aint super great. Talking mid 4 sec cars on radials struggling to go 4.90’s. Another guy with a all motor 10 sec 1/4 combo on radials went to a new track that didnt do a radial specific prep and he set a new best there. Struggled at our track.

So hard to say how your track is, in comparison. I know i went 1.4’s and 1.5’s with my 383 on nitrous and na. Et street bias. Great tire just didnt run them on the street full time.

and i also ran the 16” et street bias on bolt on car. Id lean bias on a 16”

skinny z

Thanks for that Orr.
There'll be little to no street driving on whatever tire I choose. This is about the best tire for the track. T & T nights typically have a "heavy hitter" lane that's, at least from what I could tell, well prepped. The other lane...not so much.
That said, it's creates this decision for a bias tire on poor surfaces vs a radial on a better prepped track. This is an NHRA sanctioned facility.
Then there's the automatic vs stick car debate regarding tire structure. Not sure what to make of what I've seen and read.
I fully expect to better my previous best 60' time. That means I have to hook up. It never was a dead hook as some wheel spin always helped but the effect of a good tire on a decent track was never lost on me and I hope to replicate that, and better, this go around.
If a tenth in the 60 is 2 tenths at the stripe, I should see 11's. Corrected that is as I'm in 3000' DA.

skinny z

So, that looks like one vote a bias ply. (As predicated by the 16" wheel size)
Anyone else?
I have driven my old ET Streets (bias ply) on the street but I can't say it was particularly enjoyable. That said, I'm of the mind to avoid any race tire for anything other than the track. That might bring the radial back in play. Then again there's that lore about bias ply for automatics although recently I just read about a bracket racer with an automatic Camaro. He did back to back testing between MT's radial and bias ply offerings. It's not really apples to apples when putting my car into the equation although his automatic did a personal best in the 60' and the 1/8th on the radial. Makes you think.
https://www.dragzine.com/tech-storie...-radial-slick/

AlkyIROC

As with all tires, traction comes with soft, sticky tires. We heat up slicks in the water box to release the oils in the rubber to make them sticky. Even with lots of tread left, slicks can lose their traction if they've been heated up too many times and there isn't enough oil in the rubber to make them sticky any more. Racers with big budgets will replace their slicks when their 60' times start dropping off no matter how much rubber is left on them.

ET streets or drags never need to be used unless you're racing in a class that demands a DOT tire. Same rules for rubber compound in a ET street/Drag as a normal drag tire. Being a DOT tire however does not mean it's designed to be driven on the street. The constant heat/cool cycles of street driving will dry out the tires very quickly.

Drag radials are no different. They provide good traction at the track and good street use however the compound is very soft and will generally be worn out by 5000 miles. Change your oil, change your tires. That gets expensive.

Best option is a good performance tire for the street and a set of slicks (if allowed) for the track.

As for bias tires, that technology went out in the 1960's when better tires were being made. You could run soft snow tires for traction but those tires are also expensive.

skinny z

Hey Alky!
A DOT tire is the deal here as the local track has a street legal T&T. At one time they wanted to see the tires I raced with although I can't say what the situation is like now.

As for street driving, as I had said, it's not a thing for me. I'm not a street racer anymore so traction really isn't much of an issue. The rear tires do tend to wear faster than the fronts though! Go figure.
​​​​​So it seems that there's not necessarily a cut and dried answer regarding the bias vs radial slick.
This might be price point driven purchase as I can get the radials locally but the Hoosier QTP's I'm looking at are mail order from the states. At least in so far as my shopping has indicated. But I've only started that process.

Anyway, the rest of the pieces should be in hand by next week (transmission and converter) and it's back on the road again. Or yet again I should say.
​​​​​

AlkyIROC

The radial allows you to run more air pressure. Typically, drag radials will run no lower than 20 psi. Unlike a slick, the sidewalls wont roll over or wrinkle like a slick and lower tire pressures will actually raise the center of the tire off the pavement causing less traction.

If you're trailering the car to the track and need a DOT tire, I'd go with an ET Street to get the best traction even in poor conditions.

I used to go out on the friday night street legal nights just to get some T&T passes. Some nights there was no traction compound and the street cars just spun off the line but with my big slicks, I still spun but not as bad as the street tire cars.

skinny z

There's also something to be said for stability at the top end. I've gone 115 or so with about 10 PSI in the bias ET Streets. It's not the most comforting ride.

Maybe our local speed shop, JB's, will have another tire sale. Then my decision would be made.

I've a long ways to go towards any kind of drag racing suspension. If traction is an issue, regardless of the tire type, I can always work on that..
​​​​

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Not many DOT track tires can be safely run on the street. Sidewalls are too thin.
So if you want to run on the street without having to worry about every piece of trash you run over, the options are limited.

skinny z

There's also something to be said for stability at the top end. I've gone 115 or so with about 10 PSI in the bias ET Streets. It's not the most comforting ride.

Maybe our local speed shop, JB's, will have another tire sale. Then my decision would be made.

I've a long ways to go towards any kind of drag racing suspension. If traction is an issue, regardless of the tire type, I can always work on that..
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skinny z

That is the reason I'm exploring the bias tire again. Because on T&T nights, there's only one lane that gets any glue attention to speak of. There's no guarantee I'll get that lane and from what I've read and heard, the bias tire will perform better on a poor track.
No trailers here...

And that's why I avoided any kind of "cruise night" action on my slicks.
However, being 20 minutes from the track via highway is a very tempting thing. To be able to arrive race ready without having to change tires and more importantly, store my street tires, is a bonus.

skinny z

@QwkTrip I recall a thread of yours about your trials and tribulations of finding a suitable street tire that actually hooked and didn't wear out in 1000 miles.
What did you settle on? That part is beyond my recollection.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

I switched to autocross tires in the 200 treadwear class.
Our cars are complete opposites though, and used in complete opposite ways.

skinny z

While our cars a very different, there's still the aspect of street driving. While I intend to do less of that and get to the track more I know myself better than to think I won't get out and enjoy the many miles of unpopulated highway that exist around here. This is why I asked what you arrived at.
Did you find those tires to survive some "spirited" street mileage?
I've got BFG Sport Comp 2's now but given the nature of my general driving about, I don't utilize the "sport" side to any length. I might stress the limits of a highway on or off ramp, but beyond that, fairly pedestrian. Doesn't mean I'm not looking though. There is a lively autocross community out this way not to mention the road course that shares the same grounds as the dragstrip.

FTR: While I have expressed my bent towards drag racing, a member like @IROCZman15 , to me anyway, has the real spirit of these cars locked up. Touring, autocross, drag racing o'plenty...something that, if I were a younger man, I pursue myself.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Alot of roll racer guys like autocross tires and some other soft compound street/road race tires for street traction. Im just not familiar with what is in 16” sizes.

if you had some 17’s id say 305-315 sized drag radial lol

mickey only seems to offer the 16” et street ss radials now. 272 each ouchhhh. I dont see bias plys

hoosier has quick time dot radials and slicks in 16” sizes. Definitely go with one of those.but they expensive too

skinny z

That's about it.
One radial from MT.
One of each from Hoosier.
Now, back to the original question, how to decide between radial and bias ply...

Now, I'm not some big time drag racer. The Coupe was primarily a street driven car that saw the dragstrip a half dozen times a year. It was never a huge performer but still improvements here and there saw gains at the track. Now my objective is to maximize track performance (hence cam and converter) while maintaining some civility on a countryside cruise (think drag and drive).
That said, I don't want to give up that 60' time on a T&T evening with a compromised tire choice. This is why the street element for the race tire doesn't enter into the decision. Strictly traction on what is likely a marginally prepped track. The differences between the two might be negligible but then again, is there a tenth or two with one over the other?
That's what this is all about. I did my due diligence with my converter selection. The same applies here.
Thanks all for the input to this point.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Yeah id lean to the bias options from
hoosier for marginal prep. Hoosier tends to be softer tires, depending on their compound, either c07 or c06.

mickey used to make bias et streets in 16”.

skinny z

I trending in that direction.

As for the MT ET Streets...


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That's my last set of them on the right. They're twenty years old.
Next to them holds my personal best 60' record. McCreary Road Star dirt track tires. They were the ticket 30 years ago!

AlkyIROC

I remember one of the local racers using used Cascar tires. They worked but the compound was too hard for good dragstrip traction.

skinny z

Yep. The McCreary Road Star was king at one time. Or nearly so. It has "DIRT" burned into the sidewall.
I've posted this video before although I need to watch it again. The first few tires introduced in the video, the MT ET Street, the McCreary's and BFG Comp TA's were all part of the tires I used when that video was new. 1999 or so. Those MT's and the McC's are the ones on the rack picture I posted above.

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

this is a great thread and I will be closely paying attention and chipping in my experience as I can. Today is a bit of a hectic day, but I want to re-read through what has been posted and later on, I can post more.

As things would go, I am going to be exploring the difference between my current MT ET Street SS tires which are 275/65/15 (28.2" tall). They are getting towards the end of their life when it comes to visible remaining treadblocks, but as Orr, Alky, etc have mentioned, the useful oils in the compound may be well beyond their peak performance. I can go through my log-books and find out exactly how many dragstrip passes (and burnouts) they have on them, but as for street miles its going to be a guess. I'll get back to you on that though. They still do "launch" good and they seem to be gripping enough to cause the rim barrel to spin a slight amount on the inner bead of the tire. That's another story, for another day.

I might not be experienced enough to know how to determine tire feathering, but mine do seem fairly true. I do drove on the street with them, especially to and from the racetrack. I have found that the sweet spot for my setup is right around 17 psi in each tire. Multiple times I did try higher tire pressure (like 20 and 22psi) but it led to undesirable results. I know I am probably hammering away at the sidewall integrity, but I am going to keep em at 17ish psi for the remainder of their useful life.

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Which might be only for the next two months or so. My good friend had a moderately used pair of Hoosier QTP bias-ply that are actually 27" tall, 275,and 15" wheel, so I traded him something he needed for them; long story short I got these two tires for $80 in total. We started to discuss whether I should plan on running higher air psi in them vs a tire tube and I'll have to do more research there. I also bought a can of Permatex high-tack gasket sealant to put on the bead when mounting them as I've learned that this can help curtail any tire slip on the rim. I'm willing to try it, because I don't want to drill my rims for rim-screws (unless I really have to).




I also don't trailer the car, so its always a concern to street drive on a soft tire, and those Hoosiers will be thinner so more chance of a problem on the road. I get it; but I won't know if I can gain any better timeslips unless i do try them. I am certain that my sixty foot will improve because of the grip as well as being 27" tall instead of 28" tall. However, I am going to deal with the trade-off of having higher rpms, which might cause me to get up on the rev limiter quicker and therefore run out of gear at the top end. I plan to start experimenting with these in August or September. If they don't work well, I will just buy another set of my 28" tall MT ET Street SS tires and stick with that setup.

Ah, fun isn't it?!?

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Feathering looks like the tire has a bad case of crepey skin.

It's more common with cars that can slip tires at speed and are constantly clawing for traction for a long distance down the road. Tire is basically getting torn up.