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Organized Drag Racing and AutocrossDrag racing and autocross discussions and questions. Techniques, tips, suggestions, and "what will I run?" questions.
And were would i.look for one that would match my setup.?
I don't know, never had to figure that out for myself.
I switched to a 2-wire non-resonant knock sensor and it is calibrated based on engine bore size, so pretty easy to work with. I easily tuned out the false knock with HP EFI. Not sure what, if any SBC engines came with 2-wire sensors. That would be the first thing I'd look into if I were in your shoes.
I switched to a 2-wire non-resonant knock sensor ...
Would something like the KnockLink be easily incorporated into an aftermarket EFI controller? It's a two sire sensor that states it is self-calibrating. The link is posted above.
Description as follows:
Kit includes the G4 KnockLink visual warning light and a knock sensor with loom. The KnockLink is a self-calibrating, visual knock warning tool. This kit is designed for tuning, street and race use.
The G4 KnockLink is the only detonation warning device on the market that requires no setup. Other systems require time consuming gain, frequency and noise settings to be adjusted. Without proper knock listening tools, this can prove difficult if not impossible. The KnockLink requires none of this, just wire in and start the engine.
Even light detonation will damage an engine over time. The G4 KnockLink's microprocessor continuously scans the knock signal and warns for any knock occurring. The engine's RPM and load is automatically 3D profiled by the KnockLink, continuously storing and dynamically adjusting this noise profile map while looking for the particular knock frequency.
Operation is simple. The colour of the LED represents four different modes:
Dim Blue - KnockLink is powered, waiting for the engine to be started
Flashing Blue - KnockLink has detected the engine has started and is now calibrating
Dim Green - KnockLink is adapting to the engine's noise profile and listening for knock
Flashing Red - KnockLink has detected knock. Avoid large throttle openings, seek professional advice
For guys like NoEmissions and myself, it appears to be a viable tuning aid. As for hemi, I couldn't say. But...
I have to think most dyno shops that offer tuning can do a holley setup. Holley is so popular now
or at the very least someone at the track has holley on their car that may be interested in tuning yours at a dyno somewhere
I have to think most dyno shops that offer tuning can do a holley setup. Holley is so popular now
or at the very least someone at the track has holley on their car that may be interested in tuning yours at a dyno somewhere
Do you know such a person im finding remote tuners no one that dyno tunes..I had a holley tuner look.at our tune he said it's not bad but can be tweaked..the knock had me worried but most holley people on the site said they just turn them off and tune around it..and I was told it's not like we have an aggressive timing table alot said mostly false knock...
Do you know such a person im finding remote tuners no one that dyno tunes..I had a holley tuner look.at our tune he said it's not bad but can be tweaked..the knock had me worried but most holley people on the site said they just turn them off and tune around it..and I was told it's not like we have an aggressive timing table alot said mostly false knock...
lol i know a ton around pittsburgh area but not sure about east nj
and i agree, factory knock systems can be pretty terrible. I rarely use them any more
you simply cant hurt a sbc with a verified 32-36 deg timing and a proper mid high 12’s to 1 afr. As long as compression is reasonable and fuel air distribution is good you dont need knock sensor. Cruise timing doesnt have to be super high, 36-38 deg is more than fine
lol i know a ton around pittsburgh area but not sure about east nj
and i agree, factory knock systems can be pretty terrible. I rarely use them any more
you simply cant hurt a sbc with a verified 32-36 deg timing and a proper mid high 12’s to 1 afr. As long as compression is reasonable and fuel air distribution is good you dont need knock sensor. Cruise timing doesnt have to be super high, 36-38 deg is more than fine
Total timing is 34 degrees right now air fuel thru the whole run stays 12.6 to 12.7 our compression is 9.8 cruise timing he has it set to 41 degrees...I just moved my intial from 18 to 20 degrees feels alot better off a stop light now...
They have a moveable Dyno-Jet that they bring to different events. and they've seen it all at this point. Give them a call, they are great people, just let them know which ECU you're running (Holley HP), and what you would need them to do. From what I am reading the fella's here pretty much summed up what to do, but if you feel more secure having ECS take a look at the data, then give them a call and see what they can do for you...
They have a moveable Dyno-Jet that they bring to different events. and they've seen it all at this point. Give them a call, they are great people, just let them know which ECU you're running (Holley HP), and what you would need them to do. From what I am reading the fella's here pretty much summed up what to do, but if you feel more secure having ECS take a look at the data, then give them a call and see what they can do for you...
- Rob
Thanks rob
Im shutting the knock sensor off and letting her try it see how it does..of course I'll check it between runs see if anything crazy is happening... I'm just wondering how much power I'll gain back without any timing being taken out.
I just took another look at your datalog Gerard and the after the converter flashed in first gear, the timing stayed at exactly 33 deg the entire run (aside from a very quick dip to 32.5 deg right after the 1-2 shift. if the knock sensor pulled timing, it was only 1 deg.
edit: my mistake, it did pull 2 deg according to the datalong of the knock sensor.
Last edited by IROCZman15; 11-17-2020 at 09:28 PM.
I just took another look at your datalog Gerard and the after the converter flashed in first gear, the timing stayed at exactly 33 deg the entire run (aside from a very quick dip to 32.5 deg right after the 1-2 shift. if the knock sensor pulled timing, it was only 1 deg.
Thats because he had it set to only pull 2 degrees no matter how much knock I checked the tune. .so it only pulled 1 degree ? So it wasnt getting much knock then?
I just took another look at your datalog Gerard and the after the converter flashed in first gear, the timing stayed at exactly 33 deg the entire run (aside from a very quick dip to 32.5 deg right after the 1-2 shift. if the knock sensor pulled timing, it was only 1 deg.
So.it pulled exactly what he had set it too..I put the total timing to 35 that day it pulled 2 degrees just like he set it...but it looked to have alot of knock...
yea, I wish I knew more about how the knock sensor works in the datalog along with the timing value. I am a bit confused myself because in your datalog, the highest timing it reached (under wot) is 33 deg. But I also can see the amount of knock retard coming in at WOT and it is 2 deg. If you want I can take a datalog screenshot of this and post it here for you and others to see what I am talking about, but if you wanted to keep your tune file and logs private, then I wont post it. If your datalog is accurate, there is sings of "knock" at idle, which (to my untrained brain) says the sensor is too sensitive.
yea, I wish I knew more about how the knock sensor works in the datalog along with the timing value. I am a bit confused myself because in your datalog, the highest timing it reached (under wot) is 33 deg. But I also can see the amount of knock retard coming in at WOT and it is 2 deg. If you want I can take a datalog screenshot of this and post it here for you and others to see what I am talking about, but if you wanted to keep your tune file and logs private, then I wont post it. If your datalog is accurate, there is sings of "knock" at idle, which (to my untrained brain) says the sensor is too sensitive.
Post away let's see what others think thanks Dave.
Photo 1 is showing the ignition advance (the relatively flat light blue line), and at the bottom of the page is the knock retard (light red line). the timing is a little wiggly early in first gear but then it stays at 33 deg most of the run. the knock retard goes from 0 to 2 as soon as she launches. If you were targeting 35 deg and it pulled the 2 deg timing, this would make sense as the result mathematically would equal the 33 deg that the datalog shows. in your tune file that you sent me it shows you were targeting 34 deg though, and thats the only thing that confuses me. .. unless you were using a different tune file for this specific run.
in photo 2 you can see in the background window the timing table grid just above the datalog. I put the overlay feature on and you can see that it was targeting 34 deg on that tune.
photo 3 just shows the knock counts (pink lines)
photo 4 shows the knock counts happening at idle.
so my confusion only comes from if you were using a different tune file than the one you sent me for this specific track pass. if so, that would make sense, if not, I am confused!
Photo 1 is showing the ignition advance (the relatively flat light blue line), and at the bottom of the page is the knock retard (light red line). the timing is a little wiggly early in first gear but then it stays at 33 deg most of the run. the knock retard goes from 0 to 2 as soon as she launches. If you were targeting 35 deg and it pulled the 2 deg timing, this would make sense as the result mathematically would equal the 33 deg that the datalog shows. in your tune file that you sent me it shows you were targeting 34 deg though, and thats the only thing that confuses me. .. unless you were using a different tune file for this specific run.
in photo 2 you can see in the background window the timing table grid just above the datalog. I put the overlay feature on and you can see that it was targeting 34 deg on that tune.
photo 3 just shows the knock counts (pink lines)
photo 4 shows the knock counts happening at idle.
so my confusion only comes from if you were using a different tune file than the one you sent me for this specific track pass. if so, that would make sense, if not, I am confused!
Damn I did send the tune file i had loaded in my laptop I actually changed the timing at the track that day to 35... so minus 2 equals 33 makes sense now it also makes sense why he set it to 38 when I picked up the car he set it to only allow 2 degrees retard so it would go down to 36 makes sense now...he must have known the knock sensor was super sensitive so it set it up that way ok.so I'll try putting it back to 38 so.it will go to 36 down the track... see if it picks up any ET and mph.
it is going to be a while. Island dragway announced that they are not opening the track at all in march, and they might open early April. i was pretty bummed to hear that. Also, Atco dragway is in some kind of a problematic situation. There is a thread about it on here:
it is going to be a while. Island dragway announced that they are not opening the track at all in march, and they might open early April. i was pretty bummed to hear that. Also, Atco dragway is in some kind of a problematic situation. There is a thread about it on here:
Howdy whats up car is in hibernation til spring so no blower yet..she wants her high 11s on motor 1st before we throw it on... plus I found some tuning things I want to change and play with once the track opens oh and to throw on MT drag radials so she can launch it instead of rolling out.
ah gotcha. yea I didn't know if you were working on it over the winter or keeping it as-is. cool
I can't wait for April when Island Dragway opens up!
2 more months of waiting. damn
Yeah 2 months will seem like a lifetime...I gotta race my car this year last year i never made 1 pass with it to involved with my wifes car getting that all situated...hopefully we can get alot of passes this year.
Well im Sure your faster then the blue one especially since it's still NA
my car is pretty decent so maybe that one...lol
Gotta be careful I have no roll cage In it...lol
Honestly Gerard, win, lose or draw doesn't matter to me, it's all about enjoying the day and doing something we all have fun doing. I have an entirely new setup now, and the turbo is on the shelf. Probably in the same category ET wise as you, so it'll be a cool run. Unless you are in fact running that Mopar, then I'll run you in my 6th gen... which isn't that fast, to be honest.
Honestly Gerard, win, lose or draw doesn't matter to me, it's all about enjoying the day and doing something we all have fun doing. I have an entirely new setup now, and the turbo is on the shelf. Probably in the same category ET wise as you, so it'll be a cool run. Unless you are in fact running that Mopar, then I'll run you in my 6th gen... which isn't that fast, to be honest.
Cuz of some unfinished business from when I was a kid I guess. Picked up a 400 small block and started throwing some voodoo magic at it, but the kicker is the Tuned Port Injection is staying. Also running a stalled 4L60e w/trans controller, said bye bye to the 700R4. Emulating an IROC that my cousin built when I was a kid, though he ran a 425 Olds, but with a few changes. So... running the TPI will be detrimental against you guys, but hey, we'll see if I can pull it off borrowing a little bit of my cousin's black magic. The odds are in your favor from an on paper perspective....
Cuz of some unfinished business from when I was a kid I guess. Picked up a 400 small block and started throwing some voodoo magic at it, but the kicker is the Tuned Port Injection is staying. Also running a stalled 4L60e w/trans controller, said bye bye to the 700R4. Emulating an IROC that my cousin built when I was a kid, though he ran a 425 Olds, but with a few changes. So... running the TPI will be detrimental against you guys, but hey, we'll see if I can pull it off borrowing a little bit of my cousin's black magic. The odds are in your favor from an on paper perspective....
- Rob
It should be a fun build regardless love to see it..
My wifes car isnt anything special really has a Few good parts but imo very old technology cam heads and intake...good computer system that im sure helps...lol
Cuz of some unfinished business from when I was a kid I guess. Picked up a 400 small block and started throwing some voodoo magic at it, but the kicker is the Tuned Port Injection is staying. Also running a stalled 4L60e w/trans controller, said bye bye to the 700R4. Emulating an IROC that my cousin built when I was a kid, though he ran a 425 Olds, but with a few changes. So... running the TPI will be detrimental against you guys, but hey, we'll see if I can pull it off borrowing a little bit of my cousin's black magic. The odds are in your favor from an on paper perspective....
- Rob
It should be a fun build regardless love to see it..
My wifes car isnt anything special really has a Few good parts but imo very old technology cam heads and intake...good computer system that im sure helps...lol
So I talked to the shop that built my wife's car I wanted him to go over it before race season he also suggested he would do tuning at the track for us that's damn cool said we see if we can squeeze some more out of it...only a few tenths away from high 11s thought that was a great!!! Excited to see wonder if we should do the bigger headers now ??
lmao... that wasn't a call out, that was letting you know Atco was open for testing and tuning.
- Rob
Lol I know we are excited to get it out we just wanted him to go over the tune change plugs.. look at the headers see if he can install them if not it has to go to mufflex..so I'm thinking next week we might plan to go to island.
yep, Island has opening dat Test and Tune tomorrow. I just bought a ticket online and signed the online Covid waiver.
I'll see how things go, but I am sure the 3 of us will get together at Island or Atco this year at some point!
yep, Island has opening dat Test and Tune tomorrow. I just bought a ticket online and signed the online Covid waiver. I'll see how things go, but I am sure the 3 of us will get together at Island or Atco this year at some point!
Should be a couple more of us. I'm helping Eric out with his EBL install soon, he's over in West Windsor near me, and I know he'll want to take his Iroc to the track for some fun once it is finished. I'll invite him to this thread so he can introduce himself...
Hi Guys!
Thanks for the invite and introduction Rob, and good to e-meet the rest of you...I am in West Windsor, NJ, originally from Edison.
I acquired my IROC in 1987 for my 17th birthday (second owner) we picked it up in Michigan as my father was working for Cadillac up there.
Enjoyed many IROC and Indy racing at the Michigan International Speedway, where I knew I just had to have one. Good grades, and a lot of grass cutting got this one.
Present day, finally getting around to actually working on it myself and do a few upgrades with a few restorations.
Looking forward to talking and meeting you all in person, should be good times.
Hats off to my man Rob for taking interest and helping me out.
Eric
Hi Guys!
Thanks for the invite and introduction Rob, and good to e-meet the rest of you...I am in West Windsor, NJ, originally from Edison.
I acquired my IROC in 1987 for my 17th birthday (second owner) we picked it up in Michigan as my father was working for Cadillac up there.
Enjoyed many IROC and Indy racing at the Michigan International Speedway, where I knew I just had to have one. Good grades, and a lot of grass cutting got this one.
Present day, finally getting around to actually work on it myself and do a few upgrades with a few restorations.
Looking forward to talking and meeting you all in person, should be good times.
Hats off to my man Rob for taking interest and helping me out.
Eric
Nice to meet you Eric it will be cool to get all these 3rd gens out and have fun on the track!!!
yep, Island has opening dat Test and Tune tomorrow. I just bought a ticket online and signed the online Covid waiver.
I'll see how things go, but I am sure the 3 of us will get together at Island or Atco this year at some point!
Hey Dave
Hit me up tomorrow let me know how you do!!
11-17-2020 | 12:38 AM
