I would be able to tell tho if we shift higher if the car goes faster if it goes slower then it cant be shifted higher true?

 

Yup

 

Have you seen this thread? I know Orr has.
Might be able to draw a comparison with your results and those posted.
I wish more posters had listed their converter specs though. That's a significant detail.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/orga...uspension.html

 

We pretty much have the rear setup... umi adjustable lca, umi pan hard bar,global west sub frame connectors, umi adjustable torque arm umi trans cross member.front suspension is kyb front struts stock springs nothing fancy there... shity nittos...lol I think the car will 60ft a hair better with the MTs that will have to wait til next year..

I want to try one more time and have my wife shift it to see If it improves or goes slower...

Then next year it will go get a full dyno tune..or maybe we just will throw on the paxton...and be in the 11s for sure...I have a friend that has a friend lol.thats a 700r4 guru I might have him set us up a governor to shift were we want that might help keep consistency also...

 

When I referenced that 60 foot thread it was more to show what the really quick times require. Most of what I see are short geared (higher numerically) and big tire cars with some measure of at the track chassis adjustment.
As I mentioned it would have been nice for most of those that posted to also list their converter specs. Or if they have a transbrake.
At some point, we hit a personal best wall and it'll take some step change to go faster.
​​​​​Like a Paxton...Or maybe some N2O.

 

I think honestly this has more In it I doubt highly 1.6s are the best its going to do especially because we never tried to launch it yet ever pass she has made was rolling off look.at the data log she starts at around 900 rpm then it goes then bumps up to 3000 rpm..she tried a few times to hit it hard off the line all it does is spin...so that's going to pick up ET once we can use all the power off the line no?

 

Absolutely.
But that's with the proviso that you can get significantly greater RPMs. I've found that the difference between leaving off idle, say 900 RPM, and leaving off of the maximum footbrake RPM, which is arguably 2000-2500, doesn't have that much of an impact. What needs to happen is getting the revs up into the meat of the torque curve.
Looking at the data log you posted, does it look to you like there's about 2 tenths between when the revs start to climb and about 4000 RPM? Now consider leaving at 4000. It's difficult to say how all of that corelates but I think it's safe to say the 60 will be quicker.
Now that said, I'm sure you're not about to pull out the trans and go for a transbrake. Nor are you likely to go to a 30" tire and a 4.56 rear gear (check the combos in the 60' time thread). But the point I'm trying to make, and going by what I've experienced, is that it takes some extra effort and design to really claw away at the short time.
But, as you've suggested, a little foot brake action from your driver and some nice fresh sticky tires, is certainly going to improve the start.
Keep in mind, it's been said that a tenth in the 60 can be worth two tenths at the stripe.
All you can do is keep at it.
FWIW, if your car were my car, I'd be thrilled. (Which I suspect you genuinely are).

 

Honestly surprised you got into the 1.6’s with that stall that kinda launch on nittos lol. Certainly could gain more but you already are doin very well theres only a little left there my guess.

 

Guess its making gobs of torque off the line... I still never put the tune back were he had it...and I have no idea what im looking at in the tune besides the normal stuff... I know the iat temp was 81 to start 70 and the end of the track fuel pressure at idle is 36 psi at the end of the track its 41 psi.. baro was 100 kpa was 97 duty cycle was 71% total timing 34* air fuel 12.6 so that's my extent of what im looking at...lol this is more of a street car still has AC I would love to put skinnes on it bet that's good for a .1 get the 60ft down a hair and shift it might squeak that high 11.9999 that's my wifes goal before the Paxton goes on.

 

Yes we are very happy with the build especially since it has a set of 113 heads and an old lpe219 and a first performance intake who knows if its helping or hurting the performance...my wires goal is a 11.999999 lol she is determined to get that..and the fun part its driven to the track over an hour away raced put air back in the tires and drive it back home...that was our true goal...a fun street car..

 

I went through this exact same thought process from June 2020 - October 2020. I know you have probably read over my build thread. SkinnyZ and a few others were super helpful and gave me good constructive criticism during all of my adjustments and in September I finally got the combo figured out enough to get me into the 11s. That was also my goal for the year. Huge smile on my face. Then my new goal was an 11.7x and I got close just a few weeks ago, but not quite 11.82. Regardless, I am not saying I did everything right.... but I might have done some things right, and some things could be changed, but feel free to check out my thread along with the videos and datalogs. Listen to the good advice bestowed to you here on the forum, some of these guys were running 11s back 20 years ago with much less "built" combinations, and that's one of the things I am still envious of.

 

The deal with that is built to what degree as in "dedicated drag car". Or power adder. (But that's a different story isn't it?)

At 400 CHP (easily done even then), and a car that's not entirely overweight (which our 3rd gens tend to be in full trim), the right gearing, converter (or clutch) and chassis would easily net 11's. Didn't take all that much really. 3000 lbs. Dump the clutch at 4k with 4.10 gears with a 28" or 30" slick. That's a bingo! I saw it many times.
Even the math that says 100 lbs lighter is good for a tenth less in ET. Pull 700 lbs out of your car today and how fast will you be?

But it wasn't much of a daily driver. And none of those cars could do what you do today. Not even close.

I raced back in the late 70's/early 80's. Street racing mostly. But the fast cars were untenable by todays standards. How does 7 MPG appeal to you? And uncomfortable as hell to ride in.

 

Had a tuner look at our data logs alot of knock..I'm being told we should shut the knock sensor off it is picking up alot of false knock also he has it set to pull only 2 degrees off timing which it is...wondering what should do?



Oh and a cool.shot at the track Sunday.

 

Based on that screenshot, I do not see any sign of knock. I am
not a tuner and I am new to looking at catalogs but the way it was explained to me is that abrupt changes in the rpm trace would be a sign of knock. I see none there

 

Really i.was told the purple traces was knock and the green line on the bottom was 2 degrees being taken out..which he set to only take 2 degrees out when it sees knock...I have no idea what I'm looking at lol

 

If you are able to post a better picture of what the menu/parameters that are listed over to the left (off camera) we would be able to tell what the purple is. I don’t remember what purple is, and I do not have a knock sensor in my engine setup. I was simply going off of the red rpm trace. As for timing, it doesn’t look like any timing is being taken out because that green line is relatively flat. Use your mouse to scroll sideways across the green line and if the values stay the same, well, then the computer is not removing or adding any timing. I’m certainly curious about all that jagged purple stuff but without seeing the menus to the left, I don’t know what I’m looking at. On my display, purple is usually coolant temp sensor, and I highly doubt that your coolant temp sensor is giving wacky readings like that

 

I dont even know how to get to that screen I sent my runs to a tuner that's what he pulled up and said it was pulling 2 degrees of timing the purple spikes were knock and the shop set it up to only pull 2 degrees no matter how much knock it sees.. I can send you my logs if you want to see if you can read them...I'm lost here...lol

 

I was told to just shut off the sensor i don't know how to??

 

looks like he is using the Holley V5 software, which is not what I use. I use the Holley sniper programs. If you have a tuner, you need to ask him these questions. I am certainly not a tuner, but I have learned a good amount about some of it during this past year. If you are paying a tuner, you need to ask him to explain it to you in a manner which you understand. My tuner did that for me and it started to click.

So, if I am understanding you right, those huge spikey lines along the top are what he is saying is knock then? ok, interesting.. well why are there "knock" lines up top of the screen for the duration of the car idling before starting the run?

 

No clue was told a cam and roller rockers are noisy so the knock sensor is picking it up false knock possible?? Im working with a few guys now that are reading my tune and logs hopefully I get to the bottom of it im.going to shut the knock sensor off tho I know that one tuner says im losing an easy 50 hp I have other issues too..im gathering all the info now.

 

If the purple trace really is knocks from the valvetrain, then you can lessen it's sensitivity by "insulating" it with a few more wraps of teflon tape and not screwing the sensor into the block as tight.

 

I'm being told to turn it off completely from a few tuners im talking to...

 

again, if that green line across the bottom is your ignition timing "trace" than we need to see what the value(number) of it is. since it is staying flat and not going up and down, then your timing is staying exactly the same during the run. try to take a better photo with the side-parameters/menu displayed so we can see exactly what each trace matches up to.

also, keep in mind you can adjust the scale/display of the traces by clicking and changing the ranges in the side menu for each trace

if you want, try to attach the tune here as a compressed .zip file
or email it to me. I only have holley sniper software, so I am not sure if I can load a holley V5 tune with sniper software. I'll try

 

What's your email I'll send it to you..

 

I sent it to you in a text.

I think I will have to download Holley EFI V5 or V6 software to view your stuff though. that might take me some time and I might not get to it tonight, possibly tomorrow.

 

Thanks let me know what you find

 

first and foremost, I am not a tuner, so take everything that I say as simply just my opinion,

but, as we were discussing on text messages,

you should DEFINTIELY transfer your Learn table to your base table.

I downloaded the Holley V6 software, and it's going to take me some time to get used to it; its similar but different than the sniper software I am used to. there is a lot more stuff to customize. I kinda like it.

the engine knock screens are new to me, as sniper doesnt have any of that. I do see where he has it graphed to pull 2 deg of timing though.
in the ignition parameters is the knock sensor info and it looks like you can easily dial up/down the sensitivity. it is currently at 50% out of 100%
I was able to change my settings in the new V6 so I can now see the knock level and knock timing retard in the datalog. it does look like there is a lot of knock.. but again, it also shows knock at idle.. so perhaps its just set too sensitive. so, adjust it in the settings by a few mouse clicks, OR adjust it as suggested above by NoEmissions where you can remove it, wrap some teflon tape around it to desensitize it. if it were me, I would find out if it is really knocking, and if not, I would just adjust the sensitivity in the software. much easier than spilling coolant out of the block while you remove the sensor and tape it up.

whoever set yours up seems to have done a pretty good job with all the configuration actually.


I noticed that at WOT in the higher rpms you are at 70% fuel injector duty cycle, so keep that in mind for if/when you put the blower on.. your injectors might be inadequate. maybe

think about spending some time on the Holley EFI tech forums. I've learned a whole ton from that forum just by clicking through other people's threads and reading.

 

Anyone know a good holley tuner in the NJ area would love to have this fine tuned being a few things are off..

 

I've never looked into how a 1-wire resonant knock sensor works so I might be wrong, but for the sake of conversation.....

An engine produces vibrations from the combustion process. Normal combustion has certain tonals, and detonation has different tonals. The job of the knock sensor is to detect the tonals that occur during detonation so that the ECM can quickly retard timing before damage occurs.

I think maybe a 1-wire knock sensor is always specific to the engine. In other words, you have to know what frequency to monitor for detonation, and then choose a sensor with that resonant frequency. Make sense? The sensor will go berserk when it gets inputs at its natural frequency, and the ECM will interpret that as knock. If the sensor doesn't go berserk, then no knock.

One possible problem is maybe the knock sensor resonant frequency is now inside the zone of "normal" operation for your modified engine. I don't know if there is much you can do about that with just software settings? If the resonant frequency is wrong then maybe the only thing you can do is find a knock sensor more suitable for your engine. I'll leave that one to people much smarter than me.

Regardless of all that, it's probably smart to double check knock settings in the Holley software. Holley ECM has no clue what knock sensor you have and you need to tell it what is the resonant frequency of the sensor you're using. And if that's okay, then you need to adjust the sensitivity so that the system doesn't overreact to normal things.

There is also a table of max allowable knock timing retard. It allows you to have different max limits at different operating states. My last engine has false knock at idle so I set knock retard to 0° around that location and let it do knock retard everywhere else. And there is also a setting for how fast the system pulls timing and adds timing back in, but you probably don't need to adjust that.

 

Personally, I wouldn't disable the knock sensors. Detonation can be a silent killer...

https://ls1tech.com/forums/advanced-...ing-101-a.html

Switching over to a 2-wire non-resonant knock sensor would fix things, but I don't know if you can do that with a SBC. The wiring change itself was easy with my HP EFI.

 

Most of the bigger holley hp tuners i.spoke to said good luck getting that 1 wire sensor dialed in most said just shut it off i had them look at my tune and some data logs they said my setup is very conservative and shouldnt be having the knock it has there calling it false knock it even has tons at idle...so must be a noisy drivetrain from what im gathering...

 

I don't think it's a noisy drivetrain. I think it's just that the resonant frequency of the knock sensor is now mismatched to your engine combo. Need to use a different knock sensor.

 

Can I shut it off for now so it doesn't pull timing till I figure how to get the right one?

And were would i.look for one that would match my setup.?

 

Nobody runs knock sensors lol no need if you just dyno tune it and find max power timing and pull 1-1.5 deg for safety

 

Can I shut it off for now so it doesn't pull timing till I figure how to get the right one?

And were would i.look for one that would match my setup.?

 

I've found this kit to be interesting.
It's a way of getting a visual of potential detonation without it having to be a part of the data logging system or otherwise "getting in the way" of the tune.
Something that I'm considering for my carbureted build.

https://dealers.linkecu.com/G4KNLK

 

you know of a good place to dyno tune im.not against it I'd actually like it done.

And i.just shut them off in the tune.

 

That G4 KnockLink Kit is awesome. I have been looking for something to do exactly what it says this does.
I thought I was going to have to try to build something myself, only to waste a lot of time and effort for marginal results at best.
Thanks Skinny.

 

Ok i shut it off in the tune...now I'll play with timing a little

Also my edelbrock headers I think have a crack again had it fixed once before I have a set of SLP 1-3/4 headers vs the edelbrock headers 1-5/8.
will I notice any gain going to the SLPs?

 

I've had that URL buried in my files for several years although when I fist came across it was a kit that you had to assemble yourself and then tune.
The kit appears long gone but in it's place is the part that I linked. I'd like to hear some feedback on it.

 

Which model Edlebrock do you have and which model of SLP are you considering?

 

I have the edelbrock TES style no emission pipes all cut off and welded.. pictures below of both sets.

I have these SLPs.

 

At the risk of being set on fire by the short header advocates, ditch those things and get a decent set of long tube headers.
It opens up a lot of options not the least of which is a better all around exhaust design.
Better length on the primary tube. Properly sized secondary pipes without the bullshit y-pipe that the short tubes typically have.
It also gives the option of slotting in electric cut-outs for the real deal on track days.
That is just MHO.

 

To much invested in our exhaust we already have a custom 3 in y pipe no cat Into a custom 4.5 in mufflex exhaust all we need to do to switch is adjust flanges on the y pipe which mufflex can do pretty easy... this isnt a all out race car I like ground clearance also...I hear long tubes scrap we have a step.driveway not taking the chance...

 

Fair enough. I understand the investment side.
Ground clearance however doesn't have to be an issue if a system is properly installed.
Just recently Hooker released a new spec header for the Gen 1 SBC that tucks up nicely. Combined with the right crossmember, scraping is a thing of the past.
If and when you put that blower on there, you'll want all the exhaust capacity you can get. The short tubes might not cut it.

 

being I found the timing was being retard thru the whole run ..i just shut off the knock sensor and hopefully going back to the track Sunday that and I bought a new shifter plate so she can see what gear it's really in I'm hoping we can see a .2 tenths that should be our 11.9 pass if we get that I plan I finding a Holley tuner with a dyno.

 

That sounds like a two tenths recipe to me.
Best of luck and here's hoping you have decent weather for track day.

 

Thank you I'll keep you posted!!!

 

And it only took them 30 years. Better late than never, I guess.

 

Isn't that the truth. I believe it's the only full, header to tailpipes, no modification bolt-in dual exhaust system for the 3rd gen on the market. At 2 1/2" it has it's limitations but still. better late than never as you said.