Camaro51

Boxed in the shock mount supports

1986BANDIT

its looking amazing,keep chipping away.i wish i could work on mine but no heat and lots of snow and ice.

this car is going to be so rigid it is begging for loads and loads of power.shame about the California emissions problem,a decommissioned nascar v8 would look,sound and be amazing in this.

1986BANDIT

whats that little gem in some of the pics? looks like a 73-75 malibu/chevelle....man,they were awesome looking track cars too!

Camaro51

Yeah that's my cousin Tim's 75 Laguna project. When he finishes the 46 *****'s Jeep hes almost done with, he's going to get back on it.

1986BANDIT

i love that car....for the longest time these were like the red headed step child to a lot of people but damned they had good lines....i would love one of these

Camaro51

Too windy for welding or painting today. So i made some filler panels out of red sheet plastic to fill the gap between cage and door jamb. Ill get nicer screws later, those were just old dash screws within reach.

Camaro51

Coming along. Still needs a bit of work though.

Camaro51

Going to pick up my custom laser cut dash panel tomorrow.

Camaro51

Got a couple extra of my ac vents made in case i messed one up. But looks good. I had a block off plate made and also a helmet cool tube attachment made for this. Cant wait to get it painted and in the car.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Wow, I mean WOW!

I just saw this thread for the first time and when through the whole thing... I thought I was the only one that wanted this kind of thing in a streetcar, since I've seen very few builds out there. In my case, I've wanted to do this with a mid 80's Trans Am and I'm not sure what exactly to call the look, sort of a cross between late 60's-early 70's Trans Am, IMSA with a little bit of Nascar thrown in. I can't tell you how many times I've been looking at old IMSA parts, various 'glass pieces... with "if only I had a little more garage space..." I think the interior couldn't go quite as "racecar" just because I would be pulled over instantly here.

I have loads of questions/comments:
Ok, at this point I'm thinking, this is starting like every other semi-serious autox build has since the early 90's... Whatever, I'll poke around a bit...

BUT...

Um, what wheels and tires are those? I think from staring hard at some of your pics they look to be Basset wheels, are they the same wheels through all of your pics? What size/offset are they and what size tires (both the Hoosiers and the later street tires) are you running? I've looked forever and I've found the "D-hole" style wheels in appropriate sizes/offsets, but I've never been able to find the 5hole/spoke ones. I'm wondering if you've run across a model that I've never seen in any vendor catalogs/online or if this is a different size/offset than I've considered?

Having used various Hooser road race slicks as well as McCreary dirt track tires on the street, autox and various other places where they should/shouldn't be used... the trick is to wipe down the inside of the tire with liquid dish soap before mounting them on the rims, the dish soap will seal the tire and make it hold air without resorting to a tube, even for extended sitting around between driving it.

What's the black front lip/spoiler that I see under that nose?

Are these the same rims with Firehawlk street tires on them?

What are the magnetic clamps that I'm seeing all over these pics? Where do you get them?

Exactly... 😍

Wait... AIR CONDITIONING? I guess there has to be some advantage to staying very close to stock under the hood... what engine did this thing come with?

1986BANDIT, the problem with the dressed-up/hidden LS setups for him would be that none of the intakes that will give you the look are CARB legal so it would still be an illegal swap for him.

Honestly, I don't know how the race week guys do it... I know that some come from states where the rules are pretty loose, but there are local guys to me that are getting away with cars that I couldn't make it out of my neighborhood without getting pulled over. We have a "no modified exhaust" law here (though it rarely gets enforced) but even outside of that we have a law that your exhaust has to go past the back edge of the door which is usually enforced, and some of these guys are running their exhaust through the fender or hood... I've been pulled over and ticketed for gingerly (trying not to attract attention) driving a car around with headers and header mufflers and had the cop write a ticket for the exhaust being too short (before the no modified exhaust)... and some of the later 3rd gens have only been legal to do something like the jy LS swap that everyone seems to do for a couple of years...

Camaro51

I dont mind questions. It took a lot of searching to get most of it figured out.

so yes the wheels are Bassett Inertia 15"x8" with a 3" back space. Chrome version does cost more.

The Hoosiers are a 890 tire 27.5" tall 8" tread 10" section width bias ply. i had to give the part number to hoosier west so he could add it to his line so i could buy them. They are available on the hoosier west site now. Same rims as on the firestones. Firestones ill have to go look at i cant 100% remember off top of my head but i believe they where a 255 wide. I cant remember the percentage number for the sidewall. Im think 70 but i can check for you.

The problem you can see with the wheel offset they stick out of the body so i hunted down the ASA fiberglass. Have 2 sources. Fivestar bodies and Norris racing. Which was my plan to begin with as i too love the old IMSA, ASA, Artgo, and IROC racing series camaros. So my car is actually more built like a cross between ASA and IMSA.

the tube magnets i just got at my local metal supply shop. They have different sizes. I also have the visegrips that have the swivel ends on them to make it easy to clamp tube. Makes doing cages much easier. Just do a google shopping search for "tubing fabrication magnets". You should see a bunch...

air conditioning... Yeah this is primarily a "street car".. But yeah i want to cruise it to different shows and or remote windy roads in comfort. Yeah i will admit i got a little more out of hand on the interior than the original plan. But at least i didnt go full nascar bars like i was thinking. However the placement of my door bars i made it so i could go back and add them if i want to.

I bought a street stock im working on that is strickly a track car climb through the window. So i wanted to keep some street aspects to this car.

Yeah ill try the dish soap on the rims. I know the shop i had balance them for me did put some on. But not sure exactly what he was using? But initially they held air for a while but after the first heat cycle they would only hold air for a day.

Oh right now its just a stock 305 with the overdrive auto. I may dress it up a little. But id love a 604 crate motor and a Jericho trans. But that will be when i have a more normal car to drive to work haha.

Camaro51

Oh and the 5 hole wheels used by IROC and nascar from the late 70'thru till the early 90's were made by Weld. Now ive talked to Weld and i havent got in contact with the right person yet as nobody at Weld knows what im talking about? I know that there must be piles of them behind race shops in the carolinas and south. But they will be 5 x 5 pattern. Ive thought about calling Rhine Ent. As he has every vintage nascar part known to man. But i figured a $90 bassett wheel was close enough.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

That's the thing, they don't really look like the stick out in your pics... It's been a while but do you have any pics showing how they stuck out before the 'glass fenders (I'm more interested in the front than the back)?

The stock 16x8 F wheels had a 0 offset, which would be a 4.5" BS, and any front brake swap typically moves the front wheels out another 3/8-1/2". You can get Basset Inertia's in 15x10 with a 0 offset (5.5" BS), which is probably what I'll run on the back, but I don't believe a 15" wheel with 5.5" BS will clear my front suspension mods, so I'm _really_ trying to find a 15x8 with 4.5" BS. I may have to talk to Basset and see if there is a limitation on the front hoops that they use that they can't go 4.5BS, if not maybe get a custom set made if they'd do that or I wouldn't be beyond cutting up a set and putting them back together myself. Otherwise, I might have to try the 4" BS ones and see if they're close enough for me to be happy. Because of my front suspension limitations, I'll probably run a 235/60 or 245/60 on the front and a 295/50 on the back (they'll be about the same height and look similar from the side) for street use.

I figured that they were tall, wasn't expecting quite that tall. The 890 is available in their asphalt short track slicks, but is also available as an asphalt rib (that looks a lot like a dot drag tire) and I think in a "street tread" which I'm pretty sure you can get away with on the street without even getting pulled over and checked (and just in case an angle grinder and a flap wheel gets rid of the not for street use logos pretty nicely). I'm surprised that you didn't have problems with them rubbing, ESPECIALLY with the increased scrub radius from the 3" BS. There used to be some Hoosier asphalt slicks that came in P-metric sizes and my favorites on these cars were 245/60-16 (about 26.5" tall and 9.5" section). I'm guessing that those street tires are 255/60-15 (just over 27" tall and a 10" section), back in the day they were what I ran on the back of all my 3rd gen setup for a road course or autox with 15" wheels on the street. I'd probably run something similarly sized if the thing ever sees track time.


Those are not easy to find, I found one review and couldn't find them on the site that they linked...

Not on the rims, but wiped around the inside of the tire. There is a specific lube that you put on the beads/rims to get them to seat and you can use soap for that, but I'm literally talking about coating the rubber inside the tire with soap.

Yea, I was wondering TBI or Carb...

It's an auto...?

I don't believe that Weld makes any steel wheels in house anymore, at some point they decided that they want to focus on high-end forged stuff and this kind of stuff disappeared. I believe that American Racing took over those kinds of wheels, and I can't seem to find them anymore either, I think that US Wheel might be the only one making a simlar wheel now, there series 37 which appears similar if not the same (I don't remember if the previous ones had fake rivets/bolts or not, but from a little ways back they look identical):



honestly, I'd rather have the bassets than get the look exactly right...

Camaro51

Heres about the best photo of how far the tire sticks out that i have. And yes you were right my firestones are 255 60 15.

And no, with the scrub radius i had to move the inner fender in a bit at the out side. I just continued the angle it was from the frame straight out. Battery is being relocated and some more paneling will be done to close in the side where the battery was.

Camaro51

I would think Basset might be able to make you custom offset if you are willing to wait for them? My wilwood brakes just barely fit inside these. I suppose you could use a spacer if you put long studs in...

Camaro51

Oh its a TBI. And i guess i could check the build sheet or original window sticker that came with it. But i just assumed its a 700r4 but someone told me it could be a 200r? Idk it hasnt been important yet for me to look. Haha

Camaro51

Ok i get it now soak the entire tire. Ive heard of soaking the outside with simple green (but only at tracks that dont check for it. Oh and these hoosiers have treads. Just not many...

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Wow, that's a lot more than it looks like in your other pics, the first one that I quoted looked like it about lined up, maybe a little bit of the bulge outside the fender...

Huh, and that's with a 10" section tire.... Knowing that the back of the fender is wider than the front which makes that look like it's sticking out a little more than it is, going from a 3" to a 4" BS would put the tread surface in 1", putting it well inside the fender, going to a 9" section tire moves it in another 1/2" which would tuck the tread surface in another 1/2", probably inside the fender by about 1", but the bulge would still probably be about 1/2" outside the fender... do you agree? Sounds like I really do need a 4.5" BS on an 8" wheel, but I'm debating if a 4" might be close enough for it not to look too, something....

This totally confused me which direction is moving the inner fender in and what is the outside of the inner fender? I'm not really sure what you're describing or what the pic is showing me.

LOL, northeast + winter + the current condition of my car... nothing but waiting.

This isn't even snow, it's about 2" of ice that just isn't going away:

notice nothing under the front? This is where all that is:


If not, I'm not that worried about it, I've cut, moved and re-welded the inner barrels of rims before if the barrel will accommodate it. Heck, I've cut and widened/narrowed aluminum wheels before.

Firebird 15x7 (center), a pair cut and swapped on either side to make them 15x9.5 and 15x4.5


The cut turned out more accurate than the wheel casting was

It's pretty surprising how far you can go with the TBI cars with it being basically undetectable by CARB. One thing I have wondered about is if it otherwise looks OK visually, do they make any deal about "someone has swapped a cam in it?"

I don't know of any later 3rd gens that came with 200-4r's. Some of the really early ones ('82, maybe '83) supposedly came with a 200 (the 3 speed predecessor to the 200-4r) but I've never seen one. Contrary to a lot of the noise out there, the 700 is actually a REALLY nice transmission for a moderate HP car, and tend to do really well in autox type events. I'm just surprised with the effort you've put in to make this look and feel like a track car you haven't swapped in a stick, even a throwaway stock T5 for the time being...

Soaking the outside in SG is on of the 6000 different things that people do trying to make them more sticky on the outside, coating them with something soap based on the inside (I suspect that simple green would work) just gets into the pores of the rubber and makes them less like to slowly leak. I've never tried it but I'd bet that doing the same with Slime would work better since it's designed to do that. I would even consider watering it down about 50% (slime is water based, and when dry you can blow it off with an air gun) to make it easier to spread.

NoEmissions84TA

iTrader: (1)

Nice work.

Camaro51

Sorry for how crude my drawing is. So the red is the outline of the stock battery tray. The green line is following the new inner fender seam. The right side would be the frame. The left you can see i cut the seam and pushed the inner fender away from the tire about 3" to keep the tire from rubbing but crowding the battery tray. But now the battery wont really fit here anymore. As i recall i cut the fender itself into the parking light to get it to clear as well. Sorry no photos of that.

Camaro51

Nice work on your rims!

Camaro51

Got the AC controls mounted

Got the new battery tray mounted as well. Color is the same just the way the light hits it makes it look more rose color?

Camaro51

I found another point of view for you. As you stated its not as bad on the backside of the fender. So this shot its not as extreme looking. I think an inch less backspace would be best. Not just for the stickout. But the scrub radius as well to keep from too many mods to the inner fenders and fenders.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Which Wilwood front brakes are you running? When you say "just barely fit inside..." do you mean inside the barrel or are they bigger around than the barrel of the wheel and the backspacing (or lack thereof) pushed them back relative to the wheel barrel allowing them to fit?

Their 12.19" front rotors are basically fancy looking corvette C4 brakes. The .81" thick rotor is the standard C4 corvette brake. Since these are supposedly the biggest front brakes that clear most 15" wheels, they are the standard that I'm shooting for, and being realistic, I know that this car will see MUCH more street and dragstrip time than track time, so since I'm on a "make it as light as possible," kick I've collected all the parts to do a standard duty C4 swap (12.19" x .81" thick rotors which should save me something like 20lbs over stock 3rd gen brakes, I'll swap to C4 HD brakes which bolt to the same brackets if I end up having problems with warping rotors), and with the same reasoning I went with 4th gen LT1 brakes (they are close to the same size as the stock rear discs on 3rd gens but they are much more reliable, there have been a bunch of recalls on the 3rd gen rear disks that I never felt fixed the problem), and the next common step up are the LS1 style 4th gen brakes which don't clear some 15" wheels. I actually found that I had to do some clearancing to make the smaller LT1 rear brakes fit Weld 15x9" 5"BS/0 offset wheels- they actually just barely rubbed the wheel barrel on the inside, messed up my nicely painted calipers and new weld wheels...

Camaro51

Yeah i got the wilwood road race brakes with the 1.25" thick rotor. The calipers are inside the barrel, but i took the street tires and had the balanced. Well the placement of the thin(maybe at most 1/8") stick on weights is critical as the caliper just peeled them right off.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

OK, that made it really clear... I think originally I was thrown off partially by the fact that camaros use the opposite battery box that 'birds use, so when I was seeing a battery box it was thinking driver's side and my brain went all retarded at that point... I'm actually surprised that's where you had to do all the cutting to accommodate the tall tires and scrub change, all the 3rd gens I've owned and worked on usually have problems behind the tire first, not in front. I've never run one without the plastic inner fenders, so I'm not sure what to expect to hit past that but I know that the spot that rubs on the back has hard parts behind it.

Again, knowing that mine will see dragstrip time I was trying to avoid relocating the battery from the stock location because I didn't want to deal with the rules which require the addition of a ton of wiring, a battery box or a firewall and an on/off switch, so my solution technically puts the battery in the stock box and even uses the stock mount, but holds a much smaller battery:

for some reason, it's really deceptive, but this battery is a lot smaller than the stock one.


the mount I made, the back lip fits into the stock battery box hold down, the front uses the stock hold down to bolt down so technically I'm using the stock box with the stock mounts with a battery that is much smaller (it would easily fit in the space you have left). it really has smooth edges and it looks good in person, all that that looks like rough edges and discoloration is ice stuck to it.

I really like how this is turning out.

Was it any hassle to get the brake proportioning valve mounted there, with the hardlines? Where did you come through the floor with them? I've wanted to do something like that or somewhere around the base of the seat but I've been avoiding it and thinking I'll have to have braded lines made up...

You're repairing the floor pans as you go, right? What color/paint is this? Are you going to leave them bare like this?

This doesn't look even close to as bad as the other did.

Camaro51

On the proportioning valve, it was pretty easy. But since i put the wilwood brakes on trying to get all the proper metric line to standard fittings was a pain. So i just took out the old and ran all new line. I took the factory line protection (the spring looking stuff) off the old line and put it on the new. There was just a good spot both under the car and in it i was able to bring them up and in. Just made sure the coil line protection was covering the line at this point real good. Ill get a photo.

Camaro51

I like your battery hold down. I was thinking of doing something like that. But if i decide to try to do more than track days and get into a class. I needed a main power kill switch anyway. And im going for the more circle track racecar look as well. So i was ok with moving it.
this car was a California high desert car so no rust at all. The outside of the car is spray gun. But the interior is all spray can. Rustoleum sunrise red... I will be mainly on the flat floors be putting dynamat and then the dynadeck black rubbery matting over the top. Inside sail panels (B pillars) i plan on making some aluminum panels that will be flat black. When im done with my welding in the way back i plan on doing more flat black aluminum panels there too.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

My other project is a 71 Mach 1 Mustang which is originally an Arizona desert car (it was brought up here in the '80's and sat in a garage under a house till I got it, it still had leaded gas in it when I drained the tank), and is the same, no rust at all, but the interior panels have turned to dust from the sun.

That's exactly what I was wondering, it very much looked like Rustoleum sunrise red or safety red and I was wondering if that's what you were using... (and clearly if I know my rusto colors that well I'm a fan)

Camaro51

Battery and battery box in and mounted. And cables run to main power shut off and onto the solenoid.

Camaro51

Heres a photo on where my brake lines come in. Dont make fun of my seat tabs. I havent got to my finish work on them yet.

Camaro51

Nice you got a Mach1. Yeah we car guys can never have too many projects. Ive got several projects myself.

GMan 3MT

iTrader: (4)

What's your front and rear track width with those fenders?

Camaro51

You know im not sure. Ive never measured. Im curious now and will check tomorrow after work.

Camaro51

Got my new seats, made new floor mounts on the driver side but still need to make the back support bracket. Got it mapped out just ran out of daylight. Also just to see how it would look i fit my rear view mirror and steering wheel hook. Fits pretty good. Hope to finish up seat brackets next weekend. Maybe afterwork now that days are a bit longer again.

Camaro51

Tire track width is about 75" front and 74" rear.

GMan 3MT

iTrader: (4)

Thanks. That doesn't seem like it'd be too far off the width of the fivestar full body. They told me "these bodies were for a late model offset chassis with a 66” max tread width" which I assume is to the center of the tire.

Love the way your car is turning out.

Camaro51

Yeah i was measuring outside of tire. But yeah the offset is the right side fender and quarter is a little wider for a wheel with less backspace to get more stagger. The Norris racing fenders and quarters also designed for late models are square (meaning same amount wider both sides). And more affordable. I have a set of those for my other car.

Camaro51

Oh and like my conversation with 83 crossfire TA, i had to modify both the firewall and the front side of the wheel wells to run the bigger tires with less backspace wheels. Its got full steering. Well as much as stock anyway because if it went any further the spindle would hit the sway bar. The mods were pretty easy too. Especially the firewall. I just cut slits on the seams folded it up and back and welded it back up. Gained almost 2" clearance on firewall and i did about 3" on the front.

Camaro51

Got the passenger seat in and the seat back supports in.

1986BANDIT

your just killing this,so badass....here im flexing because ive got new koni struts and look at you

Camaro51

Haha well im just doing what i can little by little. Same as you Bandit.

Camaro51

Got the dash together and the master power switch hooked up and mounted.

Got the cluster in

1986BANDIT

wow,that is absolutely looking great so after getting the koni struts in i cleaned up under-hood ,installed a new(to me anyway,lol)chrome alternator as the other one refused to charge anymore, reinstalled the crosslace rims for a better ride and kyboshed the gold stripes as i really didnt like the way it turned out(after the head swap,L-82 corvette cam change,new edlebrock intake,headers,new dougs y-pipe,put the holley 650 back on and tuned it properly withb a vacuum guage)sorry if im buggering up your thread.i just like to remind myself im actually getting SOMETHING acomplished.funny,after i removed the air conditioning crap my heater core started leaking so its temporarily bypassed...its never ending but slowly coming along



back to all white(still a 10 footer though)

slowly ironing out the filth and wiring,hoses etc...put the black valve covers on

Camaro51

Hey its good to get some of your tasks crossed off. Car is looking good man.

1986BANDIT

thanks,your is looking incredible...definitely a unique take on a third gen and i gotta say i really dig it.

as a side note on what ive done to my car,I LOVE DRIVING IT NOW.its snappy quick(at least compared to before)
rides nice and tight,starts and stops when i need it to.i cant even image some of the 500+ horsepower LS cars.
they must be brutally quick when sorted out right.have you weighed your car at all to get a before and after?

Camaro51

No i didn't weigh it. I do have the original window sticker and i think the build sheet. I think they have the original weight. Ill get it on some scales when im done. I know its heavier.

Camaro51

Got the dynaliner pad in the roof reliefs. and put my new dome light in.

Got the seats in and down tight and belts fitted

Got my race car gas pedal with the toe lift bar modified and in. Coming right along.

Camaro51

Got the back finished up, welded and painted

Got the rear jacking point finished welded and painted. Just measured up for new shocks as the car is now about an inch lower than stock shocks bottomed out.

Camaro51

Got the adjustable track bar kit in. Ran into small problems with having a 9" ford rear. Have to modify the support rod mounting bracket and special order a custom u-bolt to fit the 9". Also the weld in support wont fit with the weight jacks so ill have to make one. Other than that, very easy install and cant wait to test and tune with it.


Need to get the acetone and take off that over spray.