i know its been done before but i cant find any pictures of how others have done it. any of u guys have any pics of how u did it?

im thinking if i just cut the center out then box in the sides , i can weld in 2 tabs on each side so i can bolt a piece of tubing in the middle.

would this still be strong enough for a street/strip car

this will make it so i can drop the pan in the car for bottom end inspection without having to fight to get the oil pan off

 

Regular size

http://shop.edquay.com//product_info...1646438019758e

Dropped center

http://shop.edquay.com//product_info...1646438019758e

 

thanks for those links but i dont want to buy one specially not for that much money when i can do it myself

they did give me a few ideas though

 

that's great, but by the time you remove, modify, and replace a stock one you can just install a tubular k-member .

It will be much stronger, lighter, and free up much more space.

 

sure i can , but then i still wont be able to get the oil pan off with ease

i dont care about anything else besides being able to drop the oil pan in minutes to check the bottom end of the engine

 

trbo355 over on the turbo forums did it on his TA.

 

One more

 

thank u , lil different then i had planned , but looks like that way will work better , since the mounting tabs wont stick out

this car is pretty much a clone of trbo355's with hopefully a lil more power

keeping tabs on the lower end bearings will be the difference from this thing living or dieing

 

actually with a tubular k-member you should have the room the unbolt and drop the pan

think of this you only have a 1 5/8 diameter tube. Chevy pans have a rear sump.. so you tip the pan and slide it back.

I will check but I think the tube favors the front of the engine so it may be flush with the front of the oil pan. As you know the stock k-menber is much wider and the engine sits low in this chassis, which is why the stock k-member are a PIA and dead weight, so why deal with it in a race car?

IMHO if you have a magnetic drain plug and or a crankcase vacuum pump you will know something is not right before ever having to pull the pan.

Debris on the plug and in the engine oil or no crankase vaccuum will be the first clues the engine is hurt. and if that is the case dropping the k-member & removing the pan is a waste of time.

If I have to pull the pan to check for damage the motor is coming out anyway to repair it.

what exactly do you want to be checking? bearings? crank? rods? much easier to check & replace them with the motor out and on a stand..

 

not with the pan im putting on the engine it wont.
i dont need acess to the pan to see if the motor is blown up , i need it for replacing main and rod bearings as needed in car, which should be every 20 passes or so , 20 psi of boost + nitrous is really hard on the mains .

drop the pan slip new ones up and button it back up , as long as i dont let it get to bad it mars up the crank


my first engine had about 3k on it , mains were down into the copper already on the bottom halfs tops were perfect, this new engine is going to make a lil mor epower

 

i donno man... i just dont see the bearings needing replacement in 20 passes unless something crazy is going on?

 

20 psi is not that much.. and how much nitrous? Nitrous is harder on the motor because it shocks it.

if you are chewing up the main and rod bearings after only 20 passes I would be looking at the other parts.

I would pay close attention to the block, crank, & rods in particular.

At your power level stock GM parts are a poor choice.

what kind of block are you using ?

 

ill be hitting it with a 75/100 shot

i just threw 20 out there as an example , dont forget i street drive this

im hoping the new engine will be bettere then the old engine , the new block has been line bored so i know the mains are perfect on this one

when i tore into my old engine i couldnt belive how bad the mains were , the rods were perfect though other then some minor scoring from some dirt passing threw

block is the typical 4 bolt 0010

 

Yes, you can, double aa performance makes a tubular k member with a removable center. Also make a k member that has the center bar infront of the motor so you don't have to remove it at all. Not 100% but race craft might make one as well

 

You really shouldn't have that kind of bearing problem at all. There is something not quite right. Maybe pop over to speedtalk.com and post up your combo. There are some smart cookies over there.

I have a road race canton oil pan (on a sbc) and years ago I was thinking of just cutting a section out of the stock K like you are. (I've seen it done and it works well)
I ended up buying a Tube K member and its easy to drop the pan. Only thing I have to do to drop the pan is unhook the neg batt cable.

 

I needed to do pull the pan at the track once in my Chump car. I cut the center section, plated the ends and used a piece of round tubing with plates on either end bolted as the center section. Works well and very easy. I will see if I can find some pictures tonight.

 

I would not use a OEM 4 bolt block for any engine making over past 500 HP. and certainly not in one making 3 times that. Consider a stout aftermarket block that will reduce distortion..

 

it shoulod make around 800 at full tilt ,if u go read the thread that was posted above about trbo355's car mine is pretty much the same thing

 

 

Step up to Dart Little M or other comparable aftermarket block.

At this power level an aftermarket block and a forged rotating assembly are a necessity, not a luxury.

Do this and you will not have to worry about main & rod bearings getting chewed up after 20 passes.

 

i would but that money could go twards finishing my 427

 

800hp, i'd probably stick (and still do) with a stock block. Good machine work goes a long way. 4 bolt mains for a 350, 2 bolt (4 bolt splayed) for 400, and you're good to that power level imo

 

heres the middle 3 mains out of the old engine






other then eating some dirt the rods were perfect out of this engine, it only beat up the lower half of the mains

 

did the other mains look ok? front and rear?

 

same story on those worn on the bottom halfs good on the tops, just not as bad as the middle 3 , when i go back to the shop ill grab pics , had to hurry up and leave the shop for an emergency at work

i did manage to get the crank in the lathe and checked it for truness and it does run straight across the mains

 

Looks like a lil trash went thru them also. Clean, clean, clean clean..
I didn't see any signs of cap walking but I didn't zoooom in.
What oil and filter are you using?

 

usually a delco filter last oil change i couldnt get anything but a fram

oil is always 15-40 rottella in the spring and summer if i cant get rottella ill use castrol 30 or 40

as far as the trash i didnt assemble the engine originally, probably didnt help that when i swaped the pistons in it i had to do it in my driveway


i got pics of the front and rear mains which only show a lil copper on the bottom halfs but i dont have my iphone cable with me right now to post the pics , ill post them a lil later


i couldnt see any signs of cap walking looks like its just trying to push the crankshaft out the bottom of the engine

 

i think you should be able to grenade a 4 bolt main block before damaging bearings from the sheer hp. if the crank and block is ok, i would think there wasnt oil where there should have been. (not enough clearance, not enough pressure/flow, or a blockage somewhere)

 

its a possibilty im going to shim the oil presure relief on the new pump a lil bit to get say and extra 10 psi out of it , wonder if a hi volume pump would be good for this application
shouldnt hurt with and 8qt pan going on the new engine


block is being honed and cleaned today , and then on tuesday ill be assembling the new shortblock so i dbl check the main and rod clearances

going to have to talk to marty aka trbo355 and see if he ran into theese same issues with his small block

 

not sure what kind of clearance you had on the mains before, but i would probably open them up some more.

 

"damn skippy" I would...like to .0025 minimum....I never understood the whole notion of just rolling in a replacement set of bearings?

Do people not check thier clearances anymore? ....I've found upper and lower limit manufacturing tolerance issues from one bearing pairs from the same box!

I've seen your bearing problems in my TTA and was from too tight a clearance AND detonation.

 

i always run my stuff loose but i didnt build this engine its came with the car.
i will be checking clearances on the new engine though.

the old engine is getting rebuilt and replacing the semi tierd tbi engine in my 3/4 ton silverado

 

Ditch the delco filter and use a WIX racing filter. No need for a high volume pump.
I have lost bearings in 2 motors now due to the delco filters. (filter paper all thru the motor).
Many have said the same thing. Delco filters are now part of the Chinese parts chain of junk.

 

heres the front and rear main lower halfs
the flash kinda washed out the copper , but its just a lil bit showing dead center of the bearing halfs on both front and rear


ha dno idea the delco filters went to crap , those have been my go to filters for many years

 

Me too, the guys over on speedtalk were the guys telling me about it.

 

well i found out why i was having ignition system problems above 5,000 rpm today , i was cleaning up all my accesories today to go back on the new engine, turns out my alt was stamped 37amp , ouch


im surprised the car ran without major voltage drop from all the electronics in the car at all i didnt even know they made alt's rated that low

 

37 amps? what kind of alternator is it? i have a couple of the tiny denso alternators on the shelf, and even those are good for over 50 amps.

 

10si guys on hotrodders say they are old and at some point it was prolly rebuilt to around 50/60 amps , but wasnt restamped

 

didnt get any actual engine work done today but i did run over to napa to pick up some moly lube for the new cam along with plasti gauges i damn near fell over at the price just over 30 bucks for 5 reds and 8 greens
atleast the tube of moly lube for the cam and lifters was only 6 bucks

was supposed to assemble the shortblock this saturday but i got a call from the towns highschool today to hire me on for djing and doing a laser light show for there hs dance,i swear there has to be something in the water in this town everyone waits till the very last minute to get stuff taken care of

 

now for the last few bits of parts im waiting on and im good to go

 

i swear my car is getting more xmas presents then i will this year lol




now i just need to drill one for a pcv valve on the other im going to weld in a screw on fill cap

 

that is a lifetime supply of plastigage. lol

 

i should have known better , i always bought the plasti gauge kits in the shop , u know the one with the hard plastic gauge for all the different colors

anyways all napa had was the single packs , kid behind the counter has to order them and tells me each package is a lil piece one for each bearing , and im like that cant be right.

sure enough they come in each package is a whole long strip just like i thought
ended up with one red and one green

lol i should know better then to listen to someone behind the parts counter

only need a few more parts to come in and im good to go , waiting on 110 amp 1 wire alt which gets here monday , and my stainless roller rockers (split 1.5/1.6 set) which should be here monday as well

other then that i need to check pushrod lenght and order up a new set and get a set of poly locks and stud girddles

should just have the heads machined for screw in studs but theres no machine shop within 150 miles of me thats worth a damn

 

well the valve springs off my old engine are no good and i need new valve springs , summit recomends this kit
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-174000/overview/
125# on the seat , 304#'s open @ .496 lift provided the install height is correct at 1.750

springs are supposed to be good till .550 lift

but they dont give a coil bind number

would u use them or have a suggestion for a different spring?

 

to me it looks like most of the caps are under cut just a tad.(to short)
like after squaring up the bottom end. they might have missed the line hone.
or faild at it..just a tad.

 

almost all my parts are here , new balancer , titanium retainers valve springs,locks, manley 1.94/1.5 stianless valves and new timing cover will be here thursday

other then that im waiting on poly locks , and stud girdles no eta on those though as i still dont have a tracking number

so far heres what i have
engine tech fireseal gasket set
engine tech .010 main and rod bearings ( federal m)
engine tech plasma moly rings ( perfect cirlce)

summit racing 222/224 @ .050 camshaft .496/.466 lift with split ratio rockers
summit racing hyd lifters

pmgr 110 amp polished 1 wire alt

adept performance split ratio stainless roller rockers
1 set tall fabricated aluminum valve covers



should be going together this weekend

 

Are you rebuilding this in you kitchen?

LOL !

 

lmao my wife would kill me

 

A guys on the forced inductions section did it in his TT build....I stole the pictures when I saw it bc im my mind I was planning on doing the same thing since im doing a JY Turbo LS setup.

Hope this helps.

Jay

 

started to assemble the new engine today didnt make it very far due to a piston ring issue

main clearance is as follows ( front to rear)

#1 .0025 -.003 ( hard to tell exactly with the plastigauge as it only went from .002 to .003
#2 .003
#3 .003
#4 .003
#5 .0025 - .003

over all im pleased with the clearances on this engine

the mains are tq'ed 80ftlbs inner bolts , and 70ftlbs outers

then it came time to fit the rings

im going with a .029 top gap and .023 second gap
anyways i went to put the first ring in the bore to measure it to see how much id have to file it and the gap came out at .081 , looks like they sent me a standard ring set instead of a .030 over set

so its on hold for now till i can get the ring set exchanged or another set on its way