87SLEEPER

Not sure where to put this so I picked this forum since I plan on thrashing my car at the strip and will need to bring it home somehow.

Too much tonight except a few progress pics. Plan is to cut it down on the from and back to fit a single car plus a tool chest up the front. I hope this doesn't become an epic failure.

Any recomendations. Size? Contruction? Convenient options to have? Anything really.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

may need to add some more structural support before throwing a deck on it. also gotta do a dovetail so a low car will drive up on there without needing 20' long ramps. may need to scoot the axles rearward.... i've seen a ton of homeade trailers with the axles right in the middle of the bed. with that setup, it would be difficult to get the tongue weight right, and the trailer would want to teeter-totter going down the road.
axles should be good, and it will use a 2-5/16 ball. oh, might have brakes on both axles, too.

87SLEEPER

Yes it had brakes and bigger ball already so that is a good start. Seems like I could leave the axles in place and cut the front and rear back to get the right proportions then just re-weld it back on. What would be a good overall length? It is originally a 30 footer. Tag on trailer said 7900 lbs gross as it was. With added bracing of course it should pull nice? What a mess though? Been hanging on to this for 18 months. Was hoping my old man would fix his back hoe so I could make easy pickins of it. Nothing is ever as easy as I hope. Wanna have it completed by May and I had to have it stripped before Snow starts flying here near Boston.

Anybody have a store bought trailer that they could measure the proportions relative to the axles for when I cut it down?

Wanna get a winch on there to pull it on. Gonna need some rings/hooks to ratchet the car down with too.

1gary

You didn't say what your going to use to tow it with.Wt distribution bars help a ton.We have had the same set for yrs and moved them from trailer to trailer.The reason why trailers maintain their value is well they don't have any way to tell how many miles are on them and factory builds have a good title to follow them through numinous ownerships.Home builds don't work that way.Make sure you get a custom title for it.Here in NYS you have to have it inspected by DMV,not the normal inspection,but one for titles where they are looking for stolen parts.It's a real PITA.Takes for ever to get a appointment(it took me 16 months pushing them all the way) and the threat of if they find anything wrong,you get arrested on the spot.I went through this process when buying a gull wing vendor trailer on a bill of sale.Guess my point is before you invest any money on this check your states requirements to plate it.

I don't know why you couldn't go to your local trailer sales place and measure the axles center lines end to end.Off the top of my head,I wouldn't push the length.Maybe limit it to 18' to 20' tops.You might have to cut and re-weld it from both ends to get the correct axle center lines and hitch wt's right.

Oh yeah,I wouldn't think given the wt on the trailer you would have a issue,but double check the tires on it for their wt capacity.We have seen guys trying to get by with car tires with some pretty horrific results.

Hey man,

Have a Happy Holiday.

87SLEEPER

Hey Thanks for taking a look. My friend has a car trailer I can look at but I know guys on here like to help when they can so I figured I'd ask. I've been pulling my own 26' travel trailer w/ weight distributing hitch for about 4 years now and It makes huge difference. Right now I have a 2011 GMC Sierra 1500 w/ tow package. 5.3L. Haven't looked at actual specs in a couple of years but IIRC it has a tow capacity of 10,000lbs w/ about 1000lbs tongue if I am using the WD hitch. I also added a 2" leveling kit and an extra leafs in the back for a bit more capacity. We take an annual family vacation to the White Mountains each year and Rig goes up and down the different grades no problems.

I''get some close ups of the frame and try to show where I would like to cut it where you mentioned. Never used photoshop so if its PITA then maybe not.

87SLEEPER

Some more pics for editing. Anyone have shots of their own trailers? Maybe with a 3rd Gen on it. That would be great in helping me decide on total length.

87SLEEPER

Has Electric barkes. And WD hitch. Also thinking of installing ac/dc converter to charge deep cycle batteries. That way I could power up some running/spotlights without the truck attached and also keep a small air compresser on board.

AlkyIROC

Install a third axle in front of those 2.

87SLEEPER

I like your attitude about making it real solid and safe. But it necessary for hauling a 3600 lb car and some tools? It's not like I'm building this.

1gary

We had a third axle 5th wheel 30' and for tight pit parking wheel scuffing was a issue.Most so than a duel axles.I have seen a number of open dual wheel trailers with tool boxes up front.No problem.


You know you can walk the pits and see almost everyone with some sort of a block under the trailer jack just to get the back low enough.

I still think I would limit the trailer from 20' to 18'.

AlkyIROC

If you leave it like it is, you'll have the car sitting right over the axles or slightly forward of them to get proper tongue weight. You could cut 10-12 feet off the front of the trailer to make it more usable. I wouldn't cut the frame to resection it. I'd cut the front off then move it back.

Roughly looking at the picture, the second crossmember would probably sit where the fourth one is sitting.

Common trailer lengths are 16, 20, 24, 28' although there are a few 18, 22 and 26' trailers. That's the size of the deck length. Although a third gen will fit on a 16' trailer, it leaves no room for any kind of storage and the back end will hang over slightly. A 20' leaves about 2' at the front if none of the car hangs off the back. A 22-24' is a more ideal length for a third gen.

The overhang off the back might be to your advantage. You would only need minimal length ramps if you back the truck onto small ramps to raise the front of the trailer to load and unload.

What was the GVW of the original trailer? It should be on the dataplate somewhere in all the scrap. With 5 lug rims, it probably wasn't more than 7000 pounds. A finished open trailer may be around 1500 pounds. Lets say your car is 3500 pounds. That leaves 2000 pounds of extra stuff you can carry on the trailer before you exceed the capacity of the tires and suspension.

Proper tongue weight should be around 10% of the total trailer weight. If you're towing a total of 6000 pounds, the tongue weight should be around 600 pounds. Too much and the back of the truck sags. Too little and too much weight is sitting over the trailer tires. Both can affect handling. I see an equalizer hitch. That helps transfer tongue weight onto all 4 tires of the tow vehicle.

A 1/2 ton truck with the proper tow capacity and heavy duty brakes shouldn't have any problems towing something like that. A 3/4 ton or higher truck would be more preferred and wouldn't be questioned on it's towing capacity.

I towed a 16' open trailer with my race car on it with a 91 454SS lowered pickup truck. Truck has a 10,000 lb towing capacity even with the short wheel base and I never had any problems. The torque of the BBC helped along with 4.10 gears in the diff. Longer trucks tow much better. My current tow vehicle is a 2004 F350 diesel and it only tows a 20' enclosed trailer. I don't even feel the trailer behind the truck. I still use an equalizer hitch but probably don't need it with the 1 ton suspension.

87SLEEPER

This sounds like a good plan to keep it simple. Sounds like 22' might be a good length for me. Leaves roughly 4' storage for toolbox and maybe extra set of slicks or something. Also I like both ideas of leaving back as is and only cutting front is less work and gives me option of sitting car forward or back depending on how much extra gear I'm hauling when considering tongue., placing block under jacks or backing truck on ramps to lower tail for loading/unloading.

The plate on the side of camper before I stripped it read 7850 lbs gross. I had towed it a couple times before with my 1/2 ton and as long as I used the WD hitch it sat level. I'm sure with the weight pushed further rear it will be no problem. I do about 40k miles a year for business so I opted for the better gas mileage. Rated 22 MPG highway. I also own 2 other 1 ton vans and they both get around 12-14 on average. I suppose I could always add another leaf and lift the truck a little more if it sags.

87SLEEPER

What are you guys using for a winches? Capacity? Brand ? Mounting position? I'd like to know that if I'm by myself and I got problems I can get it back on easy? Or is this overkill?

AlkyIROC

I have an enclosed trailer. I take off my fiberglass door and drive the car into it. The removable door makes getting in and out of the car much easier. An open trailer doesn't have that problem as long as the door clears the fenders. A simple board nailed to the floor where the tires sit is usually enough to give a little more clearance.

I've never needed a winch. Even when I've broken an engine, there's enough people around to help push the car into the trailer. When I broke an engine and still had an open trailer, the tow truck positioned me right onto the trailer.

Technically, as long as the wheels still turn, you don't need much winch to tow it onto a trailer. Rolling weight is very low. With the transmission in neutral and brakes released, a human can push a car. A minimum of 1500 pounds is enough. If the car is damaged enough that it won't roll, winch capacity is the least of your worries. You can always use a ****** block to double the capacity of the winch providing you have enough cable but the travel speed gets cut in half.

Lots of different ways to mount a winch. A plate mounted on the floor and bolted or welded to a crossmember is the most common way. You could make a receiver hitch at the front like what's on the back of the truck so you can easily remove the winch when you don't need it. You could also mount a receiver hitch in the floor with an L shaped mount to position the winch along different parts of the floor to reduce the amount of cable required. A portable battery with a power disconnect makes storage and charging easier.

7850 pounds is your fully loaded target weight. If you shorten the trailer, I think you should have no problems staying under that weight with a car, tools etc loading it down. Keep that data plate to use when you get the trailer recertified.

BlackenedBird

iTrader: (5)

Leave the trailer the length it is. Park your car on it to determine the optimum balance & turn the front section into an enclosed mobile work broom for race day. Hafta move the car a back to rebalanced due the added weight of the enclosed work room, but you should be able to estimate that distance & build the enclosed area that much bigger. Wall mounted AC unit for those long hot race days?

87SLEEPER

I suppose I would have to see what a setup like that Looks like. Not really sure though that this is the directions I"d like to go with this particular build. I'd like to keep it completely open so I can do scrap metal runs and transport large orders at work. While I'm a fairly capable person and old enough to know that a good job is better than a rush job, I'm not too confident that I could fabricate something like that and not have it be viewed as hokey. Lots of talented mechanics in this sport and I'm hoping this trailer doesn't make me seem like the "WTF was he thinking" guy? My 26' trailer is so much easy to back into spaces than this 30' behemoth. Chopping it down to size will make it alot more manueverable. If it's too hot I can sit in the cab of the truck or erect a pop-up canopy to work under.

Keep the suggestions coming though. I'm feeling better and more excited to see how this turns out. Will definetly be taking some measurements soon and begin drawing a rough schematic of what I'm doing and materials needed so I can have a solid game plan to follow.

AlkyIROC

If you want to look at scary home made trailers, walk through an oval track pit. It will give you ideas on what not to do.

BlackenedBird

iTrader: (5)

When your the guy there on race day in an enclosed Air Conditioned place with a mini fridge, "couch" to sit on & maybe not having to use the "always nasty" port-a-john vs. canopies, ice chests, lawn chairs to always the port-a-johns? You'll be envy of the entire parking lot! :roflmao:

Bobtail the rear half into a dovetail for easy loading & trim just enough off the end to balance it. 4' (your 26' vs this 30') isn't much to trim off but could help to balance the axle weight distribution out.

87SLEEPER

I can dream right? Can't find what the exact size is for this trailer but he does mention using 20' long planks for the deck. My guess is that it is a 20 footer. Or maybe 18'?

http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...illermatic-175

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

that frame actually isnt that bad! you got my brain turning... lol i would like to have a 24-28ft deckover trailer. i think one of these camper frames with an extra axle tossed under it would work pretty dang good for that!

you've got a great start to a car trailer. i would shoot for 20' or so in case you might want to put a golf cart on the front someday. or whatever else you might need.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

don't know if this helps any, but here's a picture of my car on my trailer. it's a 16' deck + 2' dove for a overal deck length of 18'. not sure how long the tongue is but i'd guess it's around 4'.

Bullydawg

iTrader: (7)

I wish I had room for a car trailer... I will continue to beat my car until it breaks at the track, then worry about it... Unfortunately, the track is 100 miles away...

My dad used to have one, and it wasn't wide enough for the bird, so he would have me drive it on and off when I was like 13-14 and I would climb out the hatch... haha. Driving off was the worst!

87SLEEPER

Ya know, this would be the perfect size for me. Pretty much exactly what I had in mind before I started. Only thing now is these guys got me wanting that extra 2' in front. "Just in case". So an 18' deck w/ a 2' dovetail is probably gonna be what I go with.

Unlike the example I posted yesterday I think the best path for me is to only fab the area between the wheels and forget about the little extensions on the sides. I guess those could always be added later on if needed. I'll be keeping my eye out for some 4" c-channel to replace the flimsy stock crossbraces. Trust me, the less welding I have to do the better this trailer will turn out, I can promise that.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

for the record, i can fit a full size generator on the front of that trailer, which is just a little smaller than an ATV...but i could probably get an ATV on there with some creative thinking.

1320_Guy

iTrader: (3)

Don't forget about how high the deck is from the ground, it hard to tell from the pics but it looks like yours is a little higher than Matt's. a 2' dovetail may not have right angle to get your car on the trailer if its higher. Also dot forget the angle of the trailer when unloaded, if it sits with the rear higher than the front unloaded then your bumper may scrape loading.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

true story. any way to lower that thing without killing weight capacity?

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

would you mind measuring the thickness on those main c channels?

the more dovetail the merrier. even 3' might be nice if you can do that. you dont really want to make the rear of the trailer too low, though as you will drag it when you pull into a resteraunt or something like that after racing for the day. the trailer i used had the ramps mounted under the dovetail crossways and that thing dragged on EVERYTHING it seemed. i believe it was a 16' deck total with a 2.5' dovetail. i loaded my gta so that the front bumper was even with the front rail on the trailer and the rear tires were right at the top of the dovetail. with ~30psi in the rear tires the door cleared the trailer fender. after racing, i loaded it back up with 15psi and the door no longer cleared. got a little crazy trying to exit the car sometimes, so that is another area for you to be careful with.

here's some stuff i would really pay attention to:
1. make sure door clears fender on trailer
2. make a nice long dovetail and long ramps to keep headers from hitting the top of the dovetail when you load/unload it
3. dont make ramps too heavy and make them easy to use/get to.
4. add D rings or other strong points to hook your straps to
5. stick with trailer tires. looks like you have the camper tires still on there, which is good. i believe they are a class c or d? do NOT put car tires on it.
6. spend plenty of time wiring it GOOD. also add plenty of lights.

AlkyIROC

When I bought my 16' open trailer, the first thing I did was removed all these wire splice connectors then soldered and shrink tube each splice.

This type of connectors should not be on the outside of a vehicle where moisture can get at them but under a dash is fine.



Mounting ramps under the trailer can be good or bad. It gets them out of the way but as mentioned above, they do hang down a little too much. My open trailer had the storage slots in from the sides. As long as you didn't park too close beside something you could get them out. If the storage slots came right off the rear, they hang even lower. Most of the time, it's just as easy to slide them under the car and strap them down to the deck.

Looking at how much space is between the axles and the frame, you're not going to get the deck any lower unless you c-section the frame around all the suspension components. My Pace enclosed trailer uses torsion bar suspension so it sits really low.

cp87GTA

If I had that trailer to start with, I'd have a 20ft deck and a 2.5 ft dovetail. With a 20ft deck you will have enough room for a golf cart on front if you wish. I wouldn't cut the front off, I'd move the axles forward, and cut the back off. Moving the brackets won't be hard as cutting the front off and rewelding. I've built several trailers over the years and use 65 percent for my formula. With a tounge that long you could use 60 percent. When you decide what lenth you want, mark out 60 percent, and that is where you want the pivot for the axles. You don't want to end up with too much tounge weight. I have a 18.5 foot, and haul a golf cart on the front, with a 4th gen bird. The rear of the car is behind the end of the trailer. Makes getting the ramps out a little dificult for an old man like me. My trailer is made by J-mar, might want to google them. My ramps are in a carriage between the tracks at the rear of the trailer. They just slide out so you don't have to carry them, which I prefer. I pull with a 30ft motorhome and use an equilizer hitch. No problems in 10 years so far. Make sure your tires are not OLD even if they look like the're in good shape.

http://www.jamartrailers.com/automotive.asp?id=2

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

something i always wanted to do was make the diamond plate on the dovetail hinged to slide the ramps under. there would be slides under there going up toward the axles for the ramps to sit on. that would be sweeeeeet.

cp87GTA

My trailer is lke the one in the link, and I really like it. If it had hinged plate over the ramps I wouldn't be able to get them out. I'm too old to lift the plates and get the ramps out. I have a 16ft deck, and stake pockets on the sides so I could use it for other things besides hauling the car, but I don't. I had a smaller trailer built like this one except it had an open center. Had it for 10 years. When I had my Grand Am, I had plenty of room hauling my golf cart in front of it. I sold it a couple years ago when I quit driving, and just haul my sons car now. I've seen a lot of trailers both home, and factory built and I like these the best.