colehjermstad

Who's running a confirmed 500 + horse engine...and what are you running for a bottom end?

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

any forged bottom end is fine for that.

jwdomino

iTrader: (12)

I am running 601 at the crank, ultra light eagle forged crank, rods and pistons, nodular main caps, arp studed no issues so far so good.

AlkyIROC

Never had mine on a dyno but I'd estimate I'm around 1000 at the crank. There's isn't a single OEM part about my engine. The aftermarket parts are not the cheaper chinese import stuff either. I was using Eagle cranks and rods but have moved on to better parts.

500 HP out of a SBC doesn't need a lot of exotic stuff. I was doing that with a basic old school 383 using a stock 400 crank, rods and rod bolts and cast 350 pistons.

colehjermstad

How long did you run that motor?

1bad406

iTrader: (1)

Stock 400 block .030 over, Scat 4340 crank, Eagle H beams, SRP forged pistons.

AlkyIROC

The 383 was in the car when I bought it and was a high mileage street engine that had been in 2 other vehicles before that. I put 200 1/4 mile passes on it in 2 years before finally blowing it up. Those stock rod bolts and cast pistons didn't like spinning to 7000 rpm but it was enough to push my car into the very high 11 second range.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

stock gm crank, gm block, eagle h-beams, diamond pistons, and clevite coated bearings with arp hardware

1gary

Howards track smart American forged and machined 5.7 rod 3.75 stroker crank(really,really nice pc) with lighting holes,Scat ARP bolt stroker clearance forged rods,Icon forged pistons with offset pins to help with cold piston slap.

I don't know.Maybe I'm stupid or something because I don't get it.Before all kinds of guys laid claim to owning a 9 second street car.Some where,but not many at that time.Now guys want for some reason a 500hp car.But want to do it with the cheapest junk parts they can find not really wanting to pay for 500hp.In my opinion it all washes out in the end you get what you pay for...............I know there are guys on this site that have from $7,000 to $10,000 or more invested in their engines.

You guys know the saying........."How fast do you want to go"??. "How much do you want to spend"??

I know at retail I could with a Pro Flow Edelbrock,good set of heads,hydro roller cam and kit,headers,easily $6,500 to $7,000 grand.To put that on top of a junk bottom end to me isn't logical to watch it all blow up.

Well like I said maybe I'm just stupid or something.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I had a 383 that put down 400whp, 475-500 at crank then i sprayed a 150 hit few bottles.

Ran a basic 4 bolt main block, eagle forged crank, eagle forged H beam rods with ARP 8470 bolts, SRP forged flat tops. Thats about all. Not to fancy. Spun to 6800 rpm alot and lived well for 1600 miles before I sold it.

Now have Dart block, callies compstar crank/h beams/JE pistons. ARP 2000 bolts, main studs, splayed 4 bolt mains. Spin mostly 6200 and below so far, but its 800 hp or so. Not much run time on this. 2-3 years worth of on and off driving maybe 1000 miles on it, i honestly dont know. Plan to push 1000+ and 7K rpm with it now. Hope it holds. Similar setup is rated for 800hp+ by Steve Morris racing engines

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

on another note, with the ls series motors, there are plenty of folks knocking on 4 digits with simple turbo setups and stock junkyard shortblocks. you tell me which is dumber, a guy that spends 20k on a 1000hp engine combo, or the guy that spends 6k on a 1000hp engine combo, all while either engine can blow up as easily as the other (at that power level). when the guy with the junkyard shortblock grenades the motor, he runs down to the local boneyard and pulls a $300 engine out, puts it in the car, and is racing the very next weekend.

i'm not saying this is the smartest way to keep from having headaches, but if you're a TNTer that wants to put down some big numbers a couple times a year, and hits up some of the small tire headsup events, then it's a great idea.

i put my motor together with the intention of doing index/bracket style racing. so i run all motor for consistency. i put good stuff in the motor cause i'm going to put 150 passes a season (or more) on the car. i don't want to tear down and refresh after 30 passes. i have a goal of getting 1000 passes out of this motor, while also hitting 130mph trap speeds. we'll see if that works out.

TB2

iTrader: (1)

010 4 bolt small block with Diamond Racing billet steel main caps, ARP main studs, deck height cut to 9.0". GM Steel crank, knife wedged and balanced. Approximate weight down to 43 lbs. 6.0" Eagle lightweight "H" Beam rods. Ross 13.8:1 pistons.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

stock LT1 block, stock crank, stock rods, stock pistons, stock head castings.
~625rwhp

1BADRZ28

iTrader: (2)

stock 1974 454 block bored to 4.560, dimple rods, 305H Comp Cam and 7/16 pushrods, highrise intake and a super tricked out q-jet.

zraffz

350 (4 bolt stock), eagle 3.48" 4340 crank, callies compstar h-beams 5.7", Probe SRS pistons... around 750 crank horse on N2O. ARP main and head studs with howards cams billet center caps.

AlkyIROC

A 500 HP street car with a power adder is a lot different than a 500 HP street car that's NA.

zraffz

Didn't see any mention of N/A so I figured I'd chime in. It's also an LT4 block with JE HNS rings.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

mine made 425 at the wheels n/a, so that should be a good bit over 500 at the flywheel. its streetable, too. peaks around 6700 and pulls around 11" vacuum at idle. power brakes work fine. 2 bolt block.

imo, i dont have the slightest problem with a cheap bottomend. the car/chassis comes first, along with whatever heads/cam/poweradder will max out said bottomend. i've got over 100 passes on this engine i'm guessing, and it hasnt shown any hint of getting tired. i could bracket race it with a 100 shot, it runs 6.10 every pass like that.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

How many have ever seen a cast or stock type crank actually fail? Only thing I ever see is typically rod failures from either rod bolts giving up from to much rpm or just a failure in the middle of the rod due to rod stresses of other sorts.

Makes you wonder how stout you really need to get with cranks/rods and such. So many guys pushing factory bottoms to levels most would think are too much. Where do you draw the line?

AlkyIROC

There never was any mention about it being NA but it was mentioned about modern 9 second street cars. Just about all of those have some sort of power adder and it's usually a turbo. Turbo HP just isn't the same. When you're not under boost, the engine isn't making a lot of power and has better street manners. Same goes for NOS. Saying you have a 600 HP street car and 250 HP of that is NOS doesn't mean you're driving around all the time with that much power.

Stock components can take more abuse than most people realize.

Order of bottom end upgrades should be

Rod bolts
Pistons
Crankshaft
Rods

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Think rods should be last before crank? I would go rods before crank but then again not sure.

Remember also, turbo power isnt the same as nitrous power either if spraying a complete shot at once. Nitrous has a much higher rate of pressure rise than a turbo build so the "shock" on the internals is alot harder with spray. Ramping it in via progressive controller would help alot but still, turbos have a smoother pressure rise. Also abit cooler temps since rate of pressure rise increases temps directly.

AlkyIROC

Rods and crank would be a coin flip but a stock cast crank would be more prone to cracking before a rod itself failed.

zraffz

I've seen rods break. I've seen pistons melt (too much heat from nitrous). I have never seen a stock crank break though... I've heard of it happening but it was in a 2 bolt main; perhaps some sort of block flex caused it though?

For the extra $560 on top of a $7,000 motor, I feel a cheapo forged crank is good closure for me at night though.

1gary

For me I still buy the best I can get or a combo of parts that I know have a proven track record.EVERY Eagle crank we have tested,measured,looked at new,needed work.EVERY one!!.That is cheap junk.Sorry if the truth is so hard to accept.

My history is if you wanted to go fast,you bought the best you could get.It is drag racing to me as I know it.

RWB____s

factory 350 4 bolt block, GM forged crank, 6" rods, 10.3-1 JE pistons and rings, solid lifter flat tappet cam, dynoed 500+ hp at the crank on 91 pump gas N/A

daverr

iTrader: (1)

100% agree. spend the money = piece of mind.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

no engine is making 500hp all the time while your driving it around on the street at cruising rpms. what tends to kill a bottom end is rpms, which you will need more of on a strictly n/a engine that makes 500hp versus the same size engine using a 100 shot of nitrous to make 500hp. the n/a engine would be much less streetable than the power adder combination as well.

most people fail when they spend all their money on the engine and nothing on the car. they wind up with an 800hp car that runs 11's if they are lucky. if they spent the money on the car, they could have built a 700hp car that ran 9's.

1gary

The shock factor is what kills bottom ends.Two things do that.
Nitrous
Tranny brakes.

I have said I am involved in tube frame cars for alot of yrs.But my background was in brackets like street and heavy ET.Honestly with more rounds I think that was more fun and I do miss some of that.I don't miss hooking back up headers and changing out the slicks at the end of the race in sometimes rain storms.But the competition was more fun and where I learned how to be a good driver I think.So you want to build a 500hp engine??.Well ok go ahead.But be aware there is much to respect in guys that are on top of their engine stock parts with blueprinting etc running in the slower but not less competition classes and just love racing.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

i disagree completely.

1gary

Close friend one season lost his 9.90 "good" engine early in the season.He had to slap together a stroker cast crank and held his breath everytime he released the trans brake.At the end of the season he torn the engine down and had to throw it out.The crank was trash.

We give way too much credit for cheap parts and what they are able to handle in terms of shock loads with nitrous as well.Even with only 100hp shots I have seen rod bearings pounded pretty badly.Well guys say I don't use it all the time..............Yepper it's kind of like sex and guys say I only did it once ending up on TV with Morey telling them"You are the father"!!.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

I worry more about the universal joint and transmission itself when I'm off of the tranny brake, I don't even think about the bottom end during the shock factor. I only worry about the bottom end when I see the knock gauge lighting up...

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

whoever was knocking rod bearings out with a 100 shot didnt know what they were doing. detonation kills bearings, not the 100 shot.

Shagwell

A trans-brake DOES NOT shock the motor. The motor is already loaded up against the converter thus the engine load does not change when you release the brake, in fact if anything it sees less load after you release the brake. - A t-brake does however shock everything from the trans output shaft back.

As noted by DIGGLER, knocking bearings out is not due to nitrous or any other power adder, it has to do with improper set-up and/or tuning.




As for the intent of this thread, I doubt the OP was looking for combos such as mine thus I'll leave my info out.

1BADRZ28

iTrader: (2)

This isn't the 1960's.. I use a good amount of nitrous and a transbrake and my bearings came out looking new after 100 passes last year. I even thought about using them again.....

BTW, a cast crank will absorb some of the nitrous shock you speak of. They flex more than the 4340's do. I am not talking 400hp worth either... But for entry leve nitrous they are fine.

1gary

Yepper-your right it isn't the 60's.And I am offended by that comment.Nice.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

and we're all offended by your belittlement on this board and the fact is, you're no smarter than the next guy on here. sounds like you "helped" some folks with fast stuff, but never had anything yourself. by your posts, you're obviously disconnected from the stock suspenion/small tire world, and since that's the world we live in, by sticking to tube chassis stuff, you've deemed yourself obsolete.

have a good day

GTA matt

iTrader: (1)

Remove user from ignore list1gary
This message is hidden because 1gary is a complete idiot and on your ignore list.



Got it.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

You guys are harsh lol

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

I don't think anyone has been mean yet

1gary

So I guess you want to ruin another thread..........by saying stock suspension small wheel cars are a special kind of race car??.If you read my post you would see where I am encouraging that very kind of racing and what I miss from when I was involved in that.Well that is IF you read my post that is..............

It is silly to think people start out in fast tube frame cars.Most don't and work their way up the ladder.Fact is I probably had more yrs in your style of racing than you.Never until recently on the bottle,always N/A because I knew how to put stuff together and didn't need that crutch to fall back on and over the yrs with multiple brand names of cars.

So my day is just fine.Yours is looking the same.

1BADRZ28

iTrader: (2)

Since you know how to put an engine's together, I'd like to have you build a NA engine to compete with x275 or any stock suspension10.5 tire organization and see how you fair. I would tend to bet it would not be very good to the point you'd qualify last or not even be in the same class as the rest of the power adder cars.


My guess is that my conventinal headed bbc has we exceeded if not made more than any of your combinations and it was built by me. The hp of the 70's, 80's, and 90's is long gone. You may have been creative in the past(that was a slight compliment) with making slightly more the rest, but these days people who live in the past get passed. It's a fact.

Show me a conventioanl headed BBC of any cubic inch that makes 1400hp NA and doesn't need any power adder and I'll show you a crisp 100.00 bill.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Thats getting into prostock /mountain motor type territory. You can get 800+ inch beasts making 1500-1800hp all motor. Just aint conventional Heck Sonny makes 2150hp n/a out of 1000 inches. Only 117K for the motor.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

people still say that it takes more skill to build an n/a engine..... i have learned otherwise. it is actually more difficult to build a power adder engine. there is a whole bunch of other variables you do not need to worry about with the n/a setup. all you are having to work with there is air at atmospheric pressure and fuel. cylinder head ports, combustion chamber shapes, valve material and size, head gasket type/thickness, camshaft specs, and valvespring requirements are just some of the variables that will be different with a power adder engine. it is much more in depth when you are actually building a power adder car to go as fast as it can with a given displacement/head type/power adder type.
as said above, good luck making 1400hp with a sb n/a combination that cost less than $20k. an n/a setup thats figured out and working well is impressive, but it is annoying when an all motor guy says something about "not needing a bottle" or him making "real power, all motor" or something about cheatin' gas.

Shagwell

But the important news is, my dad can still beat up your dad!


I used to be a big NA guy. Then I realized I could make more power and have a more efficient engine by using an adder; haven't looked back since.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Optimizing a n/a build does take some skill with port shape and cam timing specs. All you got is atmospheric air. Getting VE over 100% is not something that most can do with buying shelf parts and slapping it together. Some of the top prostock engines n/a are seeing VE in the 120's % range. Thats incredible and the level of development that goes into those heads/cams/motor combos represents some of the peak in automotive performance design.

I slapped some shelf 195cc heads and a mild cam together on a mild 400" bottom end and threw 15psi at it and it ran mid high 9's. Nothing hard about it but then again its not that impressive. Anyone can do it. Its not like i'm trying to extract everrry little hp possible from it, like trying to optimize a prostock n/a motor but with boost in mind. If you did that, then yes, I can see power adders being another variable but for the budget racer you can go really fast for little effort on a power adder motor
Often times the intake/exhaust ports on n/a motors will be different than on nitrous specific or boost specific builds...mainly heat is an issue with power adders so you do alittle different materials and such but there are other tricks you can employ that you dont see on n/a builds. Each way has its own unique challenges I guess.

1gary

You can knock it off with this age thing.God how many times in my career in Drag Racing have I dealt with guys like you??.Test and tune nights where I beat a guy with my car and then swapped cars and beat him with is own car.I don't like lowering my standards to swapping name calling on these forums.From what I am reading of your posts,you sound like a snot nose kid that refuses to learn from experience.And that's OK because only time will fix that..............................

1gary

I am sorry if we lost the O/P of this thread.If not please post and I promise to get back on topic.

1BADRZ28

iTrader: (2)

I'm closer to your age then you think. I'm just not stuck in the Middle Ages anymore.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

I would pay money to see 1gary bring his tube chassis car out to run against 1BADRZ28's small tire setup headsup.....

1bad406

iTrader: (1)

save me a seat.