BBCpoweredZ28

iTrader: (3)

How much chromoly tubing would be needed to install a 12 point cage with funny car cage in a third gen. What thickness and wall sizing. I've been quoted $1000 to install if I supply tubing or $2500 if the shop supplies it. Dan Neumann out of Ocala will do the install just trying to save a few bucks.

Also. How much more tubing for 25.5?

AlkyIROC

Tubing thickness depends on the exact tube. The majority of the tubing is 1-5/8" diameter but not all the tubing needs to be that size. The rulebook can explain which tubes can be a smaller diameter. Some tubes can be as small as 1" depending where they're located. 1-1/4" and 1-1/2" are many of the secondary tubes.

CM tubing wall thickness is .083. DOM MS tubing needs to be .120" wall thickness. You're only saving about 30% of the weight for far more than that in cost.

To make your own cage, you'll need a tubing bender with the proper size dies. A pipe bender will not make the proper bends and will fail an inspection if you need to get a chassis certification. Since you want a funny car cage, I have to assume it gets inspected. A funny car cage is not mandatory unless you run quicker than 8.50. Slower than that and it's just extra weight. The cost of a tubing bender is cheap. The cost of the different dies required makes it are more than the cost to have someone make and install the cage for you.

$1000 to make and install a 12 point cage and funny car cage is cheap however if you provide the material, you'll need to buy a lot more than what's actually required plus it won't all be 1-5/8". Typical cage installation cost is $100-$150 per point. Cost increases depending on how much more needs to be done.

Your best option is to buy a cage kit and a funny car cage addon from S&W Race Cars then have the shop install it for you. That way there's minimum cost for material.

If you want a 100% custom cage made to fit your car exactly, let the shop supply the material to build it. Just make sure you're paying for a cage that will pass an 8.50 certification or whatever you plan to do.

For the increased cost of CM, it doesn't justify the minimal weight saving plus CM cages don't last as the metal becomes brittle near the welds and will crack. A MS cage is more versatile.

You're requesting information about a full cage, CM material, funny car cage and information about going to 25.5 then you're trying to save a few bucks in material or labor. The blueprints for 25.5 specs can be purchased from SFI. Basic cage design requirements are in the NHRA/IHRA rulebooks.

Do you really need all that? A basic 10 point cage will still pass an 8.50 certification.

1gary

BBCpoweredZ28

iTrader: (3)

The saving money part comes from me getting married soon.

Funny car cage is something I want for safety as my wife will be driving so the "extra weight" isn't the issue.

As far as is it needed? A 496 or 511 inch BBC with a 106 precision turbo should demolish a 8.50 1/4 mile time with ease.

It's a street car for me to drive occasionally and her at the track. So no backhalf suggestions please.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

street driving a funny car cage car? hope you'll be wearing a helmet every time you drive it, or you're one split second away from a split open head from that cage due to a blowout, car accident, whatever that tosses your head into it.

1gary

What the hell are you going to attach the cage to??.The sub frame??.Now that is a dimly lite light bulb idea!!.

BBCpoweredZ28

iTrader: (3)

You've never seen a 12 point in a third gen? It's pretty common to put safety measures in place for how fast your going. Where there's a will there's a way. Mainly CM subframe connectors with outriggers make good mounting points.

Steve I'll have padding around the FC for street driving. Roads to work are pretty straight and I drive at night so hardly any traffic!

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

you really are disconnected from the big power/small tire cars, aren't you?

1gary

It's not so much the "sub and tub" portion,but more the frame rail tied front to back with a roll bar/cage.Safety first for sure,but it does play a major role in the overall structure and torque transfer with back haft frame rails.Just to tie the sub frame rails and then add a fc to it is akin to doing haft the job and a "like Mike" look.We have raced and built full frame cars with fc's for yrs.We have also bought cars that where back hafted,tie frame rails,and every combo you can think of and all of them ended up being full frame cars.Over the yrs the reason is they just work better and are more durable and are worth more.The other part of the story is with full frame cars you get to correct drive line offsets to on center.

Ever seen a poorly executed roll bar car after pounding it for acouple of yrs where the doors don't close so good anymore??Worse case the windshield cracks.Hummm.

I think we all could serve ourselfs well never losing sight of the multiplying car's wt factor in a rollover.I don't know what I did with the formula,but it is pretty rude.

Street driving a FC without a helmet and padding.Naw,I don't agree with that.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Not sure how strict the track is, but maybe certify it to 8.50 with a basic 10-12 point cage, and run it to 8.5's to be legal, and then maybe open it up a pass or 2 and see what they say about it. They may warn you or may let you go. Some tracks unfortunately dont care. Some however do and will kick you out if you dip under 8.50's.

I'm not condoning breaking safety rules, but in the world of high powered street cars that do see track time, some of the requirements seem to get ridiculous in order to be "legal" at the track.

Shagwell

Full-frame cars aren't worth half what a quality back-half or stock suspension car is worth today, unless you're talking a current pro-mod built car.

As for the topic, Dan Neumann will not steer you wrong. I doubt he marks up the materials, thus I would doubt you can get the tubing bought & to his shop for any less than what he's offering to you. - That said, best place I know of to check in FL is Alro Metals. That's where I get all my tubing from. As noted by Alky above, most of what you will need is 1-5/8x.083wall, but some will be smaller.

1BADRZ28

iTrader: (2)

If he is quoting you a full from scratch 25.5 for $2500.00. I'd take that and run.

1BADRZ28

iTrader: (2)

Do you bracket race a 427 with .060 shaved heads(990's) running on alcohol?

itsjustabird

iTrader: (1)

the guy has a astro van in his avatar how serious can you really take him?

BBCpoweredZ28

iTrader: (3)

Lol. I wish. I'd be posting pics instead of a question. The $2500 is for a from scratch 12 point with FC. Him supplying materials custom fitted and painted black.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Excuse my ignorance, but whats the funny car cage part of a 12 point?

1gary

Nope.Big inch sbc's in 9.90 until the last three yrs in a alky 565BBC RED 7.90 car and a second car in 10.90.

One event back to back ran 9.90 with a 1,9.90 with a 4,9.90 flat,9.90 with a 6.Mowed them down one right after another.All the lights where 4.15's or better and one was 4.0 light.It was just our time then to be lucky.

The Astro van????.Yeah ya just can't judge a book by it's cover.Over 20yrs in 9.90 cars.My posts aren't by a internet hero.It's a take it or leave it situation that I don't debate back and fore.Soooooooooo much to learn if you want grasshopper.

Shagwell

Not much to learn, they're just fun'n with ya since your RED runs a few seconds slower than my 3050# back-half door car does on half the tire......

Shagwell

its not usually, he's just looking for the added safety of the FC cage. - I 100% agree with xpndbl3 here though, no way I'd run an FC cage in a car that will see street use unless I was planning to wear a lid every time I got in the car. Just the full 12 puts enough tubes around your head to easily spit it open, the full FC would make sure you're having a closed-casket service.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Well I dont want to be in an accident in a thirdgen regardless of cage or not No air bags... but I do feel abit safer with my harness belt on.

I was just asking what a FC cage was, as I dont think I've seen one unless its that cage where the driver is enclosed in tubes.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

alright old man, school us...

1gary

Now you know better than that.It don't get run out the back door.

Ya know those Florida times always seem abit faster..Maybe somthin in the air................Just kidding........

AlkyIROC

The last time I did the cage in my car, I was considering adding a funny car cage but decided against it. I have enough cage for now and climbing in and out is difficult enough without the added funny car cage.

My cage is still overkill and I used reduced diameter tubes where permitted. The entire MS cage came in around 230 pounds. I'd have to find my build thread to know the exact number. The back half required some extra rear tubes, I put a roof diagonal in. I have X-boor bars, sill bars, knee(dash) bar etc. I don't have the forward tubes through the firewall (not required for certification) but I plan on finally putting something in this winter.

Don't haggle about that price. I doubt you could find that for less. Like I said, just make sure it's built with the proper diameter and thickness material to pass a certification or it's wasted money.

Cage kits are cheap. A 12 point cage Mild Steel kit is around $320. A 10 point CM kit is around $500. The funny car conversion is $130 in MS and $230-$240 in CM. Since he's going to scratch build the cage, there's time involved in bending the tubing correctly plus the time to weld it all in. I think $2500 is a great deal to get it done.

1BADRZ28

iTrader: (2)

The 25.5 is not really that much more in terms of fab work.

Shagwell

I go through the 1/4 in the mid 8's after hanging the laundry @ 660. - Funny thing is, I'll run the n2o combo out and it doesn't bother me, put that huffer out in front of me and my butt just ain't comfortable past the first stripe.


we be in JeOrja too, lol. - Speaking of which whose going to SGMP next month for the Duck's race? Be sure and stop by to say hi.




Orr89RocZ -

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

ah man, i wish i wasn't so busy with school, i'd come down. i am going to SGMP this saturday for testing though.

1gary

First time in yrs.....we're all set for spring with no work to do and like the other snow bunnies we're hibernating.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Pass on the funny car cage for a street car! thats just ridiculous.. I've seen those before just didnt know it was called funny car cage.

1gary

Time 2 on that Orr from me.Want to add to a certain degree cages are built for a number of different size drivers,but to have one for his GF and then have it fit him too,well either is extremely large or extremely small.

BBCpoweredZ28

iTrader: (3)

Don't go callin my woman fat now. That just ain't nice. I'm 5'9" 190. She's 5'4" 125. Were pretty close in size actually.

Like I said though, limited street use 10% tops. And that's only the short ride to work when it's nice out in Florida (everyday that's not summer lol).

1gary

Well your not married yet.Alittle tip for you.The first time she ends up with a goose egg on her head from a minor bump,you can try your best to sell the idea your just trying to protect her,but your still going to be sleeping alone toast.

itsMikey

wtf? ^^

anyways....
that cage looks crazy..definitely not street car material

BBCpoweredZ28

iTrader: (3)

When she's driving it's at the track with a helmet. She won't be street driving instead all.

How many guys on drag week drive around with fc cages?

Shagwell

^ Many, but it is an added risk. - Unless you live in a padded room, you're taking risks. We all have to calculate our own risks and decided what is ok and what is too much.

I'd say at minimum go ahead and inx-nay the stock seat belts and use the 5-point any time you get in the car.

1gary

So she is going to wear a hat getting into the car at the track??.Aaaa nope.

I'm done here.We brought along a teenager from Jr's to drag school to door slammers to the now open car.I am very sure about his driving and yes we do have a very strict safety program.But if you even think your putting your wife to be in a car that is over her head.DON'T DO IT!!!!!!. FC or not.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

even though you are disconnected from the small tire/stock suspension crowd, truer words have never been spoken!

1gary

Nawwwww.I do think I got acouple of 5.0 foot brake lights in me.That is where I started after all.

1BADRZ28

iTrader: (2)

I street drive my 25.5. Yes, there is added risk but I could get just as much head damage in a major accident. If I listened to the majoity on this board, I'd still be a virgin hiding under my moms bed.

Shagwell

...wait, that's not normal?

BBCpoweredZ28

iTrader: (3)

Lol. Now that's funny. It's nice to know I won't be the only one doing this. I don't know how this went from how much material do I need to a thread about wether or not my fiancé should even drive at the track.

Yes she knows she will need a helmet. She also knows that she will be driving a 454 with cam, decent heads, intake, and headers while the 511" is being built. She also knows the SHE WANTS to spray the 454 before the turbo motor goes in. And when the turbo motor goes in she wants to start at like 8lbs on a throttle stop. She nor I are dumb people. We know what we want to do and how to gradually get there based on our own skills and abilities.

She loves going to the track and bought our gator nationls tickets for Christmas.

She will be there every step of the way during the building/fabrication of everything so no I will not be sitting her in a low 8 second car and lettin her go ***** to the walls.

She will start like I did. 11.0, 10.0, 9.0, and wherever she wants to go from there or stop and log where she is comfortable at.

And btw she actually has the cars current pb (I tell her it's cause shes lighter than me lol) she knows what's she's doing

Now, does anyone know how much material I need, roughly.

1gary

What kind of CM tubing are you going to get??.N tubing or heat treated??.


I was going to let it go about asking you about your to be wife and you getting offended.You have never built something like this before or you would know the answers,she hasn't gone this fast before,so I asked you about how your going to bring her along considering what I just stated.

It's selfish.It's my loved ones on the other side of the track and darn it my money too.There is one hell of a difference in buying a ticket to a event and driving in one.When it comes to suggestions about safety,and driving experience,I take no prisoners for answers.The dumbest thing anyone can do is get offended about that.Remember I said I'm selfish when it comes to that................

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

if it were my g/f or wife, she would be in a 12 sec car for a long time before going any faster. i've seen firsthand a bad situation where a friend of mine let his wife drive his car. it ran 11.50's or something like that... anyways, she made a few passes and did ok, but the last pass she made she got out of shape about 200ft out and stayed in it. she had panicked and her foot just didnt come off the gas. aaaall over the track and im not sure how it stayed off the walls.

Shagwell

Why not just ask Dan how much tubing will be needed if you were to get it yourself? - I'd bet his estimate would be closer than most of ours.