mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

his is a racecar...that joke isn't applicable (or funny) in this case

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

I know right. Kind of like xpndbl3, LOL.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

exactly

Fast 383

iTrader: (2)

I was discussing this with my of my buddies. He recently aquired a '67 Chevelle with a built 468. The motor has 11.1 forged pistons, nice roller cam, single plane intake, 950 4150 carb, and all the other crap. The motor is pretty fresh from the machine shop but he's gonna pull it and put in the origanal 396 that came with the car.

He offered me this motor and I know he'll give it to me cheap. If i'm lucky, We'll barter some trans/converter stuff that he'll need for his 10 seconed 3rd gen.

Hope this works out. It's what i'm looking for.

Shagwell

sniff...sniff, do I smell a burn? - lol

Hey, my car is tagged & insured......... converter only stalls 3k on the brake at best, but the tires eat stupid amounts of power on a chassis dyno. - There's a you-tube video of it putting down 401rwhp @ Aftermath Performance. Best I've ever seen on his dyno-jet was 432rwhp, I have never sprayed it on the dyno though.

Sounds like a great place to start. You may think hard about swapping the intake for an RPM air-gap though. Unless that BBC is set-up to turn north of 7500 on a regular basis it will make more power and be more driveable with a good hi-rise dual plane. - I'd also be curious as to what heads are on it. Square ports are practically worthless on a sub 480ci motor, good ovals will make more power everywhere until at least 7500.

I've got a set of Lemons custom headers to fit it down in there.......haven't decided on keeping them or not but I might be in the market for a 2nd converter.......

Fast 383

iTrader: (2)

I'll have to double check all the parts involved. To be honest, I really crave a low RPM Torque monster Big Block and I wouldn't mind having the dual plane.

I'm gonna look around at header options to see what I need. A guy PM'd me about a cheap set. But i'm a bartering man, especially for a nice set of Lemons.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

everything faster than him is a race car and everything slower than zones is junk


Around these parts we try to do more with less and max out a combo, but hey mph is king i'm sure

I got plates and insurance just like shagwell. We have "Street cars"

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

LOL, i just want to make my junk yard dog eat all the little ponies, thats all!

Fast, sounds like you have a jump start on a big block project through your buddy man, so go head first!

Shagwell

I'll let you roll down the street first, Johnny Poe might be looking hard after my side-exit 5" collectors roll by.........

But hey, it's tagged/insured and the lights work, screw all that other panty-waste frilly stuff. It's been out on the street more than a time or two.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Cannot lie, if i had a automatic in the 89, it would be a strip *****, LOL. That is where i am headed with the 86 TA.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

i have an automatic in my car...with a 4500 stall speed converter, i have no issues street driving 2 or 3 times a week.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

but matt....a 6 speed is more "fun"


I don't know anyone who swapped from a stick to a stall'd (stahl'd ) auto and doesn't prefer the auto.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

You guys need to live in Houston to understand, 3 speeds suck fro going "around" Houston for meets and what not. Not to mention the facat that the 3.5 hour drive to the central Texas GTG and another 3.5 back, manual is the way to go for a car that is street driven as much as mine if the 3 speed is the only option for an auto, daily driven is the 89 and the 86 TA will be about like you guys rides, night/weekends. This is all just my opinion, so dont get angry with me, LOL.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

daily:


and the weekend warrior:


problem solved

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

This is what i drive when i dont want to drive the camaro(The 89 gets WAAAYYY better fuel mileage) 6.0 power as well:



This is another BS toy i am selling:



Wifes daily:



The 86 TA is still hers, but she doesnt ever drive it anymore, so it is free for all on that thing now, LOL.

gtpro700

Matt you got a cowl hood back on your car or is that a older picture ? Looks really good either way!

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

yeah, i got that hood last week much better looking

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Agreed... I couldnt really street drive my 3-spd TH400 car all that much down here and thats with a 2.73 rear gear. Too many highway situations that are all 55-80mph and the car doesnt like turning that much rpm at 75+ mph. I miss my lockup converter and 700r4. My 99 TA daily is a lockup 4L60E with 2.73s. About 1500 rpm for 75mph. NICE

Fast 383

iTrader: (2)

Can't tell if it's that killer contingency sponser plastered on your fender
or the Cowl hood but that thing looks good! Where'd you get the hood. It flows just right for a 4 inch.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

haha, yeah, i need some more stickers, i think i'm going to move them to the window since the street classes don't like stickers on the body...some crazy company up north that makes awesome converters

it's a harwood 4" "outlaw z28" hood. it's a bolt on. it's a much better flowing hood then what i've had on it in the past. it's in primer while we figure out the paint scheme...got some good ideas already, i hope to have it in paint by the end of next week?

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

That is the same hod i have, i love it, just right for us big guys, the little fellas dont agree. But i have no choice as the air cleaner nearly hits the cowl as it is.

Fast 383

iTrader: (2)

Whats the deal with something like this?? Is this a reasonable move? Seems pretty cheap


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/6-0-L...item2eb0a05845

daverr

iTrader: (1)

you want to go slower ??

where is the logic on considering 126k mile engine???

gtpro700

Daverr where is the logic in not considering he is going to a rebuild it and put some go fast parts on that platform?

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

wow looks really complete, in fact one of the most complete auctions I've seen on ebay for including everything. Price isn't too bad either, I'd have no second thoughts of tossing a cam into one with that mileage and running it if you wanted. Selling off a lot of the truck parts will also get you some cash back from it as well.

Deimos140

I am in your boat and i too want an LS engine carbed.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Depending on where you are, that is about right price wise, i get them for 800$ like that, but they are in bulk, unknown mileage. But, my current 6.0 sees 7200 RPM every tie it is fired up and driven, so, i cannot bitch about it.

Fast 383

iTrader: (2)

Well, i'm still considering options. For $1200 and the motor is complete how could you go wrong? I was thinking, throw a cam and a carb set up and it can be a simple and as cheap as the Big Block route. I'm not worried about the miles. If it's takes a crap i'll rebuild it.

Question is.... If you go carbed on these motors, what has to be wired to the car. I saw the MSD box that goes with the intake that gets wired up. Is there anything else? If it's just that it could be as easy as wireing up a Gen 1 SBC?

I'm just looking to put a simple carbed motor back into this car because I want to stay cheap and I have my Fuel injected T-type to tune and play with now.

I also saw on these motors that some have electronic throttles. I wouldn't go for that. Just a cable throttle body for me.

Shagwell

Matt, that hood is almost identical to my 4" Hebb piece, though I'd imagine your's isn't just a pin on.


Fast383 - These guys can tell you for sure, but I believe it's just a matter of hooking up the MSD control box and bolting the intake and carb on.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

I already posted this probably 3 times for you around this site


power, and ground, both 10 gauge ran direct to the battery terminals, and tach hooked up. Clip some connectors onto the engine sensors and then bolt on an intake, no coolant mess to worry about like gen 1 motors then a carb and fire it up. Easiest install I know of.

Fast 383

iTrader: (2)

I went back and re-read. I payed more attention this time.


That specific answer was what I wanted to hear. It's sounds way easier than I thought. I just keep kicking around ideas and this one looks better and better.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

The GEN III/IV SBC biitch slaps the older engines in terms of simplicity with a carb, me and several friends try not to even work on SBCs if we can help it.

daverr

iTrader: (1)

my old sbc combo consisted of a carb ,msd box, coil ,and a distributor. Not mentioning the coolant temp sesor or oil pressure sensor. what so complicated about that???

i could make it simpler than that , howabout use a carb and just a HEI distributor. this will work on BBC,SBF, BBF ,sb dodge bb dodge.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

yeah but with this, you don't even need to find #1TDC, just plug the cam/crank position sensors in, wire the msd box up and hit the key.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

All setting of timing and timing curves is done by a simple laptop curve you plot out like a ACT/SAT high school test. No stabbing a distributor to get wrong like most guys do, no reading a timing light, or setting springs and weights in a distributor.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

But, if you want to use a BBC, SBC or whatever, how much do you need to spend to get:

Complete timing control with compete tunability with not touching a distributor

Nitrous timing retard

2 step rev limiter

Vacuum advance or boost retard either way

??? For the LS conversion, it is a little over 300$ for all of those features. For the SBC/BBC, over 1000$ depending on what parts you desire. Compared to the older engines, it is so simple it might be just wrong, LOL.

Shagwell

well then, any of you LS boys want some of my old dinosaur?

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

JP, my hood is a bolt on unit....i can't do a pin on anymore, i hated it! lol

gtpro700

I laughed out loud on this post. Well played ****!!

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

<~~~this guy does

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

^^^ RACECAR!!!!

Fast 383

iTrader: (2)

So....who wins this debate??


6.0L carbed LS or 468 CI BBC? I'll let you guys continue to duke it out, lol

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

I have seen the 6.0 run 100 MPH with stock components, the 454/468, i have seen run 105, this is with stock parts worked over and what not, pump gas, budget setups with no high dollar parts, so, 364 cubes VS 468 and only 5 more MPH, not impresses personally, but that is me. They are both a win in my book, but i drive mine all the time and the big block fuel economy is lacking for a street car.

daverr

iTrader: (1)

did neither of the above because i locked my distributor timing.

i want to see this list of $1000 of electronics that is supposedly needed.
And the list LS conversion electonics that is little over $300. please specify new or used.

no replacement for displacement. BBC > LS

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

msd 6010 box, new is 320:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MSD-6010/

the other things you'll need to make it work will already be on the engine typically, but can be had for cheap or free otherwise. camshaft/crankshaft position sensors, and coils. while the 6010 box won't do what a 7531 box would, it's pretty well optioned for the price.

to be honest, a digital 6+ is only 299 and will do all the same functions as a 6010 box, but you need a distributor.

i'd say, that they make more HP per $ then a gen I small block, and can make easily BBC power for less then a BBC costs. however, if a max effort situation came up, a BBC would be a better choice...

i think a better comparison would be an 18* headed 400+ inch gen I motor and a 400+ inch lsx with a comparably priced cylinder head.

for a stock engine with stock type street manners, you can't match the lsx platform.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Yea, the LS is effortless at making a car run, the SBC needs too much stuff for me to want to hassle with now.

But the list i was speaking of, distributor, coil, 6AL box, adjustable rev limiter box, nitrous retard box, boost retard, 2 step rev limiter setup, if all bought separate, is about 1000$ or more depending on what parts exactly.

As for BBC>LS, just opinion when it is street driven, a big block i dont honestly believe can go as fast as a LS setup for cheap, considering the average big block you can find and the availability of a 6.2 with heads flowing 330 stock? Cam and carb=rolling out hard. I can pull up the thread from tech with the 9 second cam only carbed 6.0, pump gas, i have never seen a big block do that.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

yeah, but i think daverr is saying that no one buys individual timing control modules anymore. even the digital 6 plus will do everything our 6010 boxes will do, and actually costs less. the only other thing you need in the equation with a traditional sbc or bbc is a quality distributor. now a distributor worth a darn can be pricey...probably more expensive than a set of coils and sensors for an LS.

as far as ignition goes, it's "six in one, half a dozen in the other".

now compare cylinder heads stock for stock and there is some impressive stuff happening with the LS engines. i don't know of any BBC in a 3000lb car that will run bottom 10's on motor with factory cubes and factory cylinder heads (no port work) with just a cam. there are max effort 346's doing this with factory 243's.

it's just a different flavor guys. i like the LS engines, and plan to run a lot of them in the future. i love the fuel injection (not on my white car though) and the drivability is great. i have a 71 chevelle that is getting some 5.3 love, as well as my brother's 89 iroc getting a 5.3 too. they're great for street cars...no one can debate that in my opinion.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I guess it depends on what castings you use... i dont know many people swapping big blocks in lighter drag cars and doing "cam only" stuff.. Cam only was made popular by the LS1 crowd....same with naming their camshafts, (trex, tsunami, vindicator, magic stick etc etc)... different crowd of guys.

6.0 truck vs 468 bbc? I'd go 6.0 truck if you kept it electronic. If you go carb, i'd rather see a BBC.. More potential to go fast there, but may not be the cheapest alternative. Depends on how fast you need to go. Bolt ons and cam swap with some stock 243 castings to get compression back up on 6.0 will get you near 10's on motor more than likely

Shagwell

Stock 2 or 4-bolt low deck BBC block, stock 3/8 bolt dimple rods(contrary to popular belief the 7/16 were actually weaker), stock TRW 10.5:1 forged pistons(could be had in may factory 396, 427, and 454 motors, none-the-less being cheap aftermarket now in speed-pro), stock iron 990 heads(mid lift flows more than LS stuff does peak, don't make me break out the GM aluminum BBC square ports), a 680-700ish lift solid flat-tappet, a decent single plane and a 1050 dominator, plug-in play MSD dizzy with a blaster coil(doesn't even need a box).

Who wants to bet I can't run consistent/reliable solid single digits in a 3000lb car with stock stuff and a cam/intake?

Apples for apples boys, the only thing that beats cubic inches is cubic dollars. For what he's wanting out of the car, either engine could be good. I would work with which ever combination I found the best deal on.



W/o turbos, that LS is going to have a tough row to hoe if he keeps the steep rear gear. With that in mind, I would put a 650ish lift hyd cam in the BBC, a rpm air-gap, and an 850dp. - Still possible to run single digits if you can get the tq to the ground with that much wheel speed.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

That is exactly it ****, i said "average" big block in a junk yard or somewhere, oval ports ect, you have to really look for the 990s castings and they arent cheap. Now if you pick and prod and find the better stock stuff like that, i dont think it is still worth the cost to me with the extra weight and heavy valve train, a 6.2 with cam only are putting 500 to the back tires in some rides, that is enough for most, the 568 will put about that and weigh more, the extra torque is the lackig end of the LS with less cubes. If it is a drag car, bog block would be my choice if i had the money, but the LS is the street king i believe.