mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

ok, i've been meaning to do this for a while. found an ad on craigslist for a guy local to me selling a door for $30, and it came with glass, hinges, and a door handle. come to find out it actually had a good mirror on it too, and is actually in better shape than my doors were originally! it appears to be from a 1990 based on the gfx that are on the door, and the yellow print on the lock buttons, so it just lucks out that i get a good set of buttons too! on a side note, it does appear that the 1990 door crash bar is different than some of it's earlier model counterparts. i do not know when they changed from the c-channel crash bar to this, which is a round crash bar. if the passenger door i end up using has the c-channel then i can get some data for those too.

ok, onto my project. it's well known that our doors are super heavy. my car, is becoming more and more weekend warrior, and comes out on super nice days for cruise-ins and occassional blast to the parts store only, and of course the race track where it's trailered. the car has a roll-bar, so taking some of the integrity out of the door is a bit less of a concern for me. the goal though, is to take as much weight as possible out, without loosing my functional windows.

here's some pics of the door right after i got it home. this door is 95% complete and only lacks the interior door panel and arm rest. as it sits, the door weighs 90lbs.







currently gutted to gain access to the inside to the door bar. that goop that holds the skin to the door bar is easily seperated with a flexible putty knife/paint scraper


here's the door completely stripped, pre-mods. the door as it sits in this picture weighed in at 54lbs. which means that the window, regulator, motor, door lock actuator, mirror, all the guides, and the latch/handle weighed 36lbs. that's 36lbs that cannot be altered (atleast i don't think so yet...)



cut the door bar here, and on the other side in the same location, with a cutoff wheel


door bar is out. it's a dissappointing 6lbs.


ok, plan-B, SWISS CHEESE!




i managed to break the pilot bit on my hole saw tonight about 20mins before the hardware store closed, so i called it a night. had to hammer out a computer science program anyhow.

so, thus far, i've managed to get about 10lbs out of the door. as a result, i'm hoping that i might be able to swiss cheese the window regulator, but i'm not sure if that's a good idea or not. these windows MUST function...

any comments, questions, picture request, or anything at all, please don't hold back. everyone says we can supposedly get 30lbs each out of these doors...well help me figure out another 20lbs...cause right now i don't see it happening.

GMan 3MT

iTrader: (4)

I think 30lbs is going to be tough if you are going to keep the windows functioning.

FWIW, I had previously removed my windows and all that jazz, kept the impact beam. I cut out the entire area in red (below) and what I cut out measured about 12.5 lbs per door.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

i too believe 30lbs is a wash, no way it's happening and still keeping the functioning windows. this car is still a street driven vehicle, and i love hitting the window switches before doing a burnout, showing my car still has lots of the power options it came with...just part of the cool factor i suppose, so they must function.

if i can get another 8-10lbs out of it, then i think this project will be worth it. 36-40lbs off the car, and i get a chance to put fresh doors on the car, and play with some body work for the first time, i think that'll be worth my time and a few dollars. the whole project should cost me less than $100 for the doors and paint. the hinge pins will need to be replaced, and will likely never wear out again since i'm taking such a decent amount of weight off, lol.

the other goal i have is for it to close and sound like a new car door. no more clangy thirdgen doors that sound like they're about to fall apart. i'm thinking some lightweight expandable foam will do the trick in the corners to keep it from being too noise.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Manual or power windows? You could shave a bit more, by using manual crank windows.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

difference from a full manual door (locks, window, mirror) to a full power door is negligable...like 2lbs ish. not worth loosing the cool factor of my power windows. the part that's heavy on the window mechanism is the actual regulator arm...it's gotta be an easy 8-10 lbs.

the tracks aren't very heavy, but i think they may get some swiss cheese treatment tomorrow.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

Glad I never wasted my time doing this mod for 6 pounds Although if for whatever reason I decide someday to pull the door panel off, I'm sure if the mood is right I might mess with it a little, of course super expensive paint on the other side might stop me.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

the door was cheap, and i wanted a real answer on this...as did you count it towards my bill for all the awesome advice you've given me in the past

i'm going to continue the project until i realize

a) it's going to be worth it and i'm going to put a nice coat of paint on it

b)i really screw up the door beyond what i can put back together

EvilCartman

iTrader: (1)

Strip off all the paint and that'll be worth probably 20 lbs. That's going by the logic of someone in a different thread though lol.

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

I had thought about trying a window regulator from a later vehicle. My idea was to find something faster with a larger motor. But if you checked out a junkyard you may find something lighter as well. I think some of the later models used plastic drives but I haven't verified that yet.

I guess if you removed the regulator and had just the window in its tracks you could then try to incorporate what ever you find at the junk yard.

Also, it may or may not be much, but you could also look at different, lighter weight mirrors that might fit.

Much of the clanging of the doors is from the window guides along the inside upper rail, possibly the outer weather stripping, the metal rods for the locks/opener, and the handles (missing spring). The doors on my '85 don't make any noise and have a nice solid sound when they're shut. My '86 rattles like crazy. lol
There's a rather long thread about it on here as well.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

the doors that are on my car currently went through a long drawn out process trying to get them to close quietly. i got them to quiet down for a while, but they're getting noisey again. i'm hoping this one will be quiet for a while.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

while i realize you're being funny, there's some truth to your logic. i'm going to strip the multiple layers of paint off my fenders/bumper cover. not really because of weight, but because they need a new coat of paint. but i figured i'll go ahead and go all the way down to the metal and bring it back up. the front fenders/bumper cover have 4 layers of paint on them (that i'm aware of, lol!) so there's gotta be more weight on them then needed, lol!

AlkyIROC

My original doors had power everything. I cut the harness, unbolted the doors and put them on a scale. 105 pounds each. I picked up some non power option doors, gutted them enough to still keep the glass and window regulator and put an aluminum panel on the inside. I even removed the mirror and filled in the hole. Cut the weight down to about 75 pounds each.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

please understand, i'm not willing to give up my power windows i'll throw the door in the scrap pile before giving up my power windows.

more pics from this morning:












next part to be tackled. this is a brace on the top of the door. i think this is there to keep things from flexing around too much when the window is in the down position. however, it's pretty overkill bracing. plazma cutter will be my friend here. i will keep the necessary bracing for function.


so far, the bare door is down to 41lbs, that's a total weight savings of about 13 lbs. i need atleast another 5lbs out of the door (as a whole) to make this worth the next step (body and paint work). ultimate goal on this part is to get another 2lbs out of it. at 39lbs, i think i can get the rest down another 3lbs.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Actually...The stock mirrors ARE "heavy".

When I swapped from my stock mirrors to my 4th gen mirrors, BOTH 4th mirrors combined were lighter than just ONE stock 3rd gen mirror, by quite a good bit. 3rd gen mirrors are steel housings. The 4th gen mirrors are plastic housings. Mine were 4th 'bird mirrors, of course. If you didn't like the "dip" in the middle looking like 2 arms, you could fill it in.
My mirror swap thread

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

Good thought but those aren't really my style. Anyone know what gta paddle mirrors look like on a camaro? Wonder if there is much weight difference?

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Fill in the "dip" & you'd never really notice. And you'd easily get your 3lbs.

The paddle mirrors were discontinued for a reason....Like bricks in the wind (flat back) and the weight of the mirrors on thee puny stalks tended to make them floppy & the mirror section would fall/lean/wiggle out of alignment.

bluegrassz

iTrader: (3)

I vote to shave the mirrors. As long as you have the inside rear view.

To bad you could replace it with speed glass and still have it raise and lower.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

I use my mirrors too much to get rid of them.

Speed glass must be fixed per nhra... so they can't go up and down

bluegrassz

iTrader: (3)

You might replace the scissor action and motors with something like this.
http://www.firgelliauto.com/car-truc...m-projects.php

But then you get into it being cost effective.

You could replace the mirrors with something like these but painted white.
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web...___#fragment-3

They are plastic, lite and kinda the same shape as stock.

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

Cool, I never noticed that before. I think that's a great idea.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

upper brace out, weight of the bare door now down to 39lbs. 15lbs weight savings, very acceptable



so the plasma cutter was a bit much. the area that's black actually warped just a little. i stopped when i saw what it was doing and resumed with the sawzall. i hit this spot with a putty knife to get the burnt paint off, then hit it was some 180 real quick, and put down some primer to help keep it protected till i can get to the body work.


now to figure out a mirror solution.

AlkyIROC

So when you add in the glass, window motor etc back in, it should be back to 70 pounds?

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

approximately. ideally, i can take the same amount of weight off the other side for a grand total of....30-40lbs

but if you add this up with a number of other things, it does add up and i think as long as i can score the pass door for about the same amount of money then i'll be still in the good.

Guest

Your experience sounds about right. Most of the weight information I've seen is grossly overstated on weight savings.

The inside and bottom of the mirror housing are generally not very visible. You might consider putting some large holes in them as well. Maybe you can get another half pound or something.

EvilCartman

iTrader: (1)

I'm probably taking out quite a few pounds out of my '66 El Camino just by cutting off the bondo filled rear quarters and putting on ones that have none One side sounds like your tapping on wood while the other is a tinny hollow sound. I'm sure you know this already but people used to acid dip their cars to make the sheet metal thinner. Our cars probably wouldn't survive such a treatment since they're thin already lol

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

if the windows and stuff weren't going back in, then i just saved ~50lbs, but they are, and that stuff is heavy.

on the mirrors, i thought about that, not sure if it'd be worth it. i do have a couple spare mirrors so i'll try.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

It really adds up in the long run though man. I cannot say my rear and side impact bars helped me much, but in my mind, it did, LOL.

Shagwell

As said by the super stock guys, "start worrying about the onces and the pounds come off". - What you're doing to the doors can be carried through out these cars once you have a cage.

lol @ this whole thread. My complete doors with windows weigh about half the stock window glass by itself. - Carbon fiber for the win!

Guest

Its not going to be much. You could actually measure how much area you'd be removing and the thickness of the material, and come up with a rough number for weight saved.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

'dis is a skreet car, i can't have no carbon fiber doors!

for real though...i need to keep my windows...

Shagwell

I know, just razzing a bit. - I think what you're doing is great, but to get the most out of it you need to cary the same ideas on through the car. The uni-body structure in these can be lightened a tone with a bar/cage in the car. You can't do as much as me out front, but there's a lot in the back that can be lightened.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

well it's got a roll bar with swingouts. i'm not sure how much i want to cut on the car as it's still got near 100% stock sheet metal and it's in fairly good shape...the door can be bolted on and off...

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

I wonder if removing my big *** front sway bar might help at the track? It is the largest WS6 sway bar you could get, i think they are hollow but it can help launch better without it right?

Hell, i should have some video of it after tonight, then you guys can let me know what you think.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

you still have the front sway bar hooked up? did you miss the first day of drag racing 101 or something?

make sure you post up the vids

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

feel free to PM me all the places i can remove crap always up for ideas.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Man, since i drive it every day, i just dont have a reason to remove it unless there is some miracle it would pull off for me.

RWB____s

would there be a issue with using aftermarket light weight glass like from percy's ?

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

yes, by NHRA rules, a liteweight glass like percy's speedglass must be fixed in the up position. i must have my windows operate.

Shagwell

I'm 50/50 on the front sway bar. My vert and my buddy's stang have 60' just as fast and run out the same numbers with and without the front bar, and there's deffinitely a noticable loss in street handling w/o it. - If you get the rear right so that the front comes up even it doesn't seem to have much, if any, effect.

My car is pretty much just body skin, lol. - I wouldn't get too crazy w/o a full cage, but once you have a cage 90% of the stock bracing through out the body is pointless.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

i got a 6 point in there now, debating doing a 10 point along with two bars going to the front frame rails as well over winter. Just like street driving it so I'll probably keep what I have now instead.

Shagwell

If tucked right the a-pillar and halo bars don't really effect any of that, niether does the strut bars. - I cut a bunch of weight out of the front energy absorb/bracing since the strut bars carry the load now.

3rdBird

iTrader: (1)

My question to Sir Drilz A lot is, what is the Beer to Hole Ratio?

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

bwahaha...no beerz have been involved. this crazy idea has been made 100% sober!

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

UPDATE:

i've decided to scrap this project. with the amount of work involved for the weight drop, it's just not worth it. i might get a total of 30lbs out of the pair of doors, and now the door is really flimsy. if i was going to make this car a dedicated drag car i might consider it. if i put in a fixed lexan window, the drop in weight would be significant, somewhere in the neighborhood of 45lbs each.

just thought i'd keep y'all in the loop.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Personally, the impact bars were worth it time wise when in conjunction with removing the rear impact bar and interior carpet, otherwise, i doubt i would remove them alone.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

my door crash bar weighed 8lbs by itself. not worth tearing up good paint if you have a good paint job on your car in my opinion.

Shagwell

30lbs is 30lbs. If you want to trim weight 30lbs is a darn good start.

I can make you cry though. - That tube chassis notch I built; 2x3 frame, ladder bar backhalf, spaghetti a-arm front, steel roof/quarters,glass nose/doors, lexan windows, alum interior, 9" with iron center section, th400, all iron BBC with fully filled block(aka shermin tank engine), later GM disc brakes all around(nothing fancy/lightweight), two group 27 batts(62lbs each) , my 206lbs in the seat, suit on ready to race.........2680lbs! Couple lightweight goodies and a real motor that thing would be around 2200lbs.

came out sinister too!(shot from back in Oct when we were finishing it up)

Fast 383

iTrader: (2)

My A-piller and halo are tucked to the fullest extent. To me, it's still in the way.

Just the thought of being trapped in a cage takes the "streetability" out of it for me.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Hmmm, never touched the shell of the door removing mine.

Shagwell

Tucked as tight as possible w/o cutting the stock a-pillar is not what I consider to be "the fullest extent". - The way the stock pillars are designed in these cars you could easily cut the back side out and bend the tubing to actually fit into the stock pillar, then weld it to it. The stock trim panel could be set back in place and the cage pipe would be non-existent.

I've seriously been debating this with my vert. I really haven't liked the idea of putting a halo and the front pipes in the car, but having a goal of running 8's on 17" tires means any decent track is going to say something if I don't.