caribbean 85

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKR-6xtqJ1c

The first clean pass in this compilation video was all motor -

the second was the crash pass on 82 pill big shot plate

I notice it is hopping at launch

I did all the tricks I have seen around for the 3rd gen

Wolfe anti roll bar - Moroso trick front springs - Lakewood 90/10 shocks - Moser 3rd gen 9 inch - Jegs torque arm & adjustable control tubular arms - UMI relocations brackets - CE 3way rear shocks - old stock (V rear springs - reinforced stock panhard bar

on motor - she goes alright - but on the bottle its flip a coin whether she back steers early or later in the run

All my buddies say that the stock suspension is not reliable for power and I should just tub and forget it

I have not given up yet but I see so many others go fast on the stock setup -

after a crash though - u start thinking ??

anything you see about the car or my setup to get it on

rest of the combo is in the sig

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

I would have replaced the stock panhard bar with an aftermarket one. In fact that's essential on a car with that kind of power. You can try to reinforce it all you like but it seems to me as though it may be flexing and kicking the rear end out one way or the other. This may be the cause of the steering issue. I wouldn't say you need to tub the car, but you do need to ditch that stock hardware. I'd also get some stiffer springs back there.

drperformance

iTrader: (5)

-stay in the groove
-get adjustable shocks
-reduce the front end bounce, its unloading the rear

joeblue83

iTrader: (8)

where was that track at, and where was the finish line???

brandoz28

iTrader: (1)

a good panhard with spherical busings, stay in the groove, with the power you're making if you get out of the groove, you're going to be screwed no matter what. where is your pinion angle set at? i don't like the way the front end bounces either.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

I would question the size of your nitrous hit. Is it a BIG shot of nitrous & coming on too fast? Besides the suggestions above, I would look into getting a progressive controller.

89gta383

iTrader: (5)

I don't see alot of rubber down on that track, how often is it used? Do they prep it at all? At least push the big sweeper brush down the entire length of the track to get the dust/dirt off the track before they start running?

AlkyIROC

It's an island track in the West Indies. Doesn't look to safe to me. No guard rails or anything. The accident could have been a lot worse. A safety "ditch" just doesn't cut it.

A progressive controller will help but all the aftermarket suspension upgrades still won't help if there isn't any traction. Good tires and a good track surface are a must. Trying to hook high HP on a poor track is just dangerous.

You also need to know when to get off the throttle when you lose traction. Don't try to power out of it. It better to lose a race than crash the car.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

looks like you were spinning and stayed in it to me?

i wouldnt worry so much about the panhard.

set pinion angle to -2 and put the lca's in the next hole down from the stock hole.

rear shocks at 50/50. use stock v8 springs with no rubber isolators.

if you are not running a spool in the 9" rear, get one now.

12psi (cold) in the slicks.


this setup should have you hooking with no issues. if it still isnt working, there is something else on the car that isnt right, or the track is simply garbage with no prep.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

also another thing to double check is the rearend squareness. drop a plumb bob down from each rear axle hub and mark a spot in the floor. do the same thing for the center of each lower balljoint in the front suspension. cross measure these points and adjust your rear lower control arms to square it up.

here is a vid of my car when the rear was not square in the car.... i think the pass. side tire was 5/8" further foward than the drivers side tire. it became more and more obvious every time i upped the shot.

http://www.streetfire.net/video/stoc...***_732767.htm

caribbean 85

Track is in Antigua - as in Antigua and Barbuda - a twin island state in the Leeward Islands - caribbean -

Yeah we know our track and definitely our track prep is not the best - it was built years ago and just never was kept up

I know I got out of the groove early - but I did not try to drive through it - I got out of it by the time I saw it was heading across the middle line - but it was too late

I suppose the hit really got it spinning

My problem is right now - when I had the stock (boxed) torque arm and control arms on with the 28 x 10.5 before with the Wolfe anti roll bar alone - it was wheels up at will - and the car ran pretty much straight and true

Now I have the adjustable short torque arm and control arms and the 29.5 X 10.5 - it sits up too high and I cant get it to pivot and launch on the
rear wheels like before

I see someone suggested I need a tubular panhard bar - to complete the process - and strengthening the rear and stiffer shocks

any other ideas??

I really need to get an idea which way to turn the adjustment to work the adjustable control arms and the torque arm to reset the pinion angle now that the car is a little taller with the 29.5 tires ??

any tips here or there

AlkyIROC

The adjustable lower control arms set the wheelbase and squareness. Relocation brackets allow you to change the angle depending on the ride height. Typically, the LCA should be parallel to the ground or down slightly in the rear.

The panhard bar just centers (locates) the diff, keeping it from moving side to side.

Pinion angle is adjusted on the torque arm. The short torque arms are not as good as the long ones. The IC point is too far back and too high.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

This.

Think of your torque arm as a giant traction bar, shorten it and the leverage is missing.

Imagine taking a 4' long pce of steel and holding it out in front of you at a 45 degree angle in the air, then balancing it on one hand and running with it, then do the same with a 2' long pce of steel and see what one stays centered easier - I know, not the best analogy, hard to demonstrate over the interweb...

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

^this works in theory and physics classes...i know more short arm'd cars that have problems hitting the wheels too hard and putting it up and over than long arm'd cars though. not sure why yet...i'll be learning that this fall

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

1- get out of it as soon as it starts going wrong, I've seen some of the stupidest crashes as the result of "I though I was going to pull out of it" or "I wasn't that crossed up..."

2- it's hard to tell from that video what is really wrong besides that you got out of the groove and got in trouble... what's with all the bouncing? My instinct is that your rear suspension is way too tight (springs, shock settings, even wheel size vs tire size vs pressure), not allowing it to react correctly. The Jeg's TA will hit the tires hard, if you have relo brackets also try using the LCA's in the stock bolt holes and softer tire pressure/softer rear springs to absorb some of the hit.

The pass looks like one my brother made with some messed up control arm bushings (like as in bound up and sticking) on some road race shocks and BFG R1's... he got crossed up and looped at the 1/8th mile...

If you don't have an aftermarket panhard rod get one... I've never been able to get one of these cars to go straight on a hard shif without one (OTOH, the rest of the suspension can work pretty good stock)

How fast is it?

87draggta

I have a buddy with a fox body that does the same hopping thing off the line. His problem is that his rearend squats too much on one side and bounces off the tire until he gets out of it. I think like someone else said the rear is a little stiff, the track probably sucks, and my personal opinion is that your getting some clearance issues with those rear slicks. However, I could be way wrong, but my car runs real close to those 355 you have and has stock everything in the back including stock torque arm, but I can't make it wheel hop. It hooks pretty decent depending on track prep, after I put trick springs and 90/10's on the front. BTW, sucks bout the car good luck in getting it set up right.

1bad406

iTrader: (1)

Look at the track surface your racing on. You got out of the groove and peddeled the car once when it was skating sideways on that slick surface. Looked like no rubber down past 150ft. Adjust those CE 3 way adjustables to where they push in easy and are hard to pull out, making the car transfer the weight back quick and not pop back up and bounce. I run the long torque arm that mounts to the crossmember and it seems to work pretty good even when the track is not the greatest.

caribbean 85

Thanks guys for all the tips - really appreciate it

car is in the body shop right now - so it will be at least another week before
we do some real suspension checks

I plan to recheck the squareness of rear - and the entire rear suspension system - I am starting to see that its all too tightly sprung behind ther

I do have a moser 3rd gen rear with spool and 4.71 gears

I am using stock v8 springs - I will try to set the CE shocks as 1 bad 406 suggested

So far on the new motor I have a 10.122 slip on another road strip that we converted for a one off race - but the mph did not print

all I know is after that pass I had to add two hood pins at the outboard /center of the fibreglass hood as it was folding up in the middle

JUST FOR CLARITY - is the rule soft springs / stiffer shocks on the rear??

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

My input, third/4th gens have gone 7s with the stock style suspension, so you should be fine with the right tuning/parts.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

no. just run the v8 springs out back.

4.7x gear seems too tall, even for 29.5 tires. how high are you spinning it? personally, i would say put the 28's back on there with a 3.89-3.73 gear.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

please look at the surface he's trying to put the power down on. it's basically a backroad with some sugar water dried on it. this isn't bradenton or MIR or cecil or the like that we're talking about here.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Man I miss Bradenton Went to high school there...

brandoz28

iTrader: (1)

exactly, and the other end of it is that there IS a point where more power is easier to get down the track. some of these little tire cars like to get smacked HARD at the line.

this is completely apples to oranges comparing his car, on that track, to a 7 second fully built torque arm f-body. especially considering that he's more or less racing on a sheet of ice with as much power as he's making, i'm guessing this thing would run a low low 9 second pass on the 82 tune up

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Yea, i am just referring to the cars setup, not the crappy place they are using to run. Looked like an accident waiting to happen in the video.

Shagwell

I can't view the vid from work, but I would question a few things.

First, you need to take some accurate measurements and make sure the rear is square. Adjustable control arms can wreak havoc if not set-up properly. - You should not need to touch them for a pinion angle adjustment. Set the wheelbase, square them to the rest of chassis and leave them alone. Personally, I do not square off the links themselves, I hang a plumb bob off the axle flange and square from there. If any bracket is slightly off perfect, everything can be thrown out of whack.

Second - ride height and tire size. Stock suspension is very finiky about ride height. Since you have minimal adjustments available, altering the ride height is one of the biggest tools for dialing in the suspension geometry and thus how the cars works. - W/o some sort of tub work, I would not run more than a 28" tire.

Third - shocks and springs. CE 3-ways aren't the greatest, but as long as they are functioning properly they are ok(check them often, many cheapy 3-ways have a tendency to lock-up, or go completely soft/non-function). As for springs, I have always run as soft of spring as possible. I would rather the springs assist the "hit" than run extra AS.



An .082 nitrous pill is around a 200-225 shot. Out of curiousity, what fuel pill are you running with it? The old nos tune-ups are pig rich, the new ones are ok, although still a bit rich. - I'm far from the most knowledgible nitrous guy, but I baseline with an .082/.073 combo and 5.5psi flowing.

tkcaraudio

I have stock suspension on spray and a 5 speed running in 11s and one has ran 10s I have a off brand ebay torque arm and a jegster panhard bar on ebach springs

caribbean 85

This and other replies have been great help -

caribbean 85

gremlins

Shagwell

Good deal, just making sure you weren't running some out ot the book tune. - That would be very close to the 82/73 @ 5.5 flowing that I have run. Monte knows his spray for sure.

caribbean 85

Hey guys - I finally got the car back to the track since my crash in July last year

On Sun April 10 - took the car out for some test and tune - it was running so good I decided to enter the local street wars - and got paired up for a best of three against a honda

so far so good - off idle on motor - came away with a 6.8 1/8th / 10.8 1/4 and a 6.7...1/8 / 10.737 back to back passes

got a couple of my own videos

http://youtu.be/ghG747-wyXE

http://youtu.be/DyZFgVWhvUM


and one from the official event coverage

http://youtu.be/X-pGZlp3H3Y

Shagwell

Glad to hear you're back out and it's working for you.

Stevo

iTrader: (45)

Looks like street racing with a tree.

Glad your having fun, car sounds mean.

caribbean 85

I want to say thanks to you and all who gave support and suggestions on how to get it sorted out

This is a summary of the work done and changes made since last July - in case any ideas here can help anybody out


car much more lowered in the back - evening out the front to back rake I had previously - made a cut and reflare to the rear wheel arches raised it up just under 2 inches

used 150 lb rate circle track brand rear stock type springs recommended to me by a miami drag radial 4th gen guy - good soft rate but turned out they were a bit too short - even with the cut and reflare of the wheel arch

added stock rubber isolator and another stock rubber isolator with the steel insert support cup removed and tie strapped on top of it to get it to hold up the car and clear the back tires

strange fox mustang adjustable rear shocks with the clevis mount fab welded to the stock shock mount to orient the shock properly and set at number 5 on the adjustment dial

scaled the whole car again - squared the rear end and the distance between rear wheels and a centerline established between the front ball joints and the crank pulley bolt using plumb bob following advice in this and other threads and the instructions from the Jegs adjustable control arms

set the pinion angle 2* downwards from the angle found at the back of the motor - again following instructions from the Jegs adjustable short torque arm setup and using the adjuster on the torque arm to set the final angle

installed Competition Engineering weld in subframe connectors in addition to my previous floorboard support home made subframe connectors

installed a fabbed rear crossmember to extend the main hoop of the roll cage through the floorboard and tie it into the crossmember and the new subframe connectors

completed my 10 point cage and made it a 12 point extending bars to the front shock towers and from the front shock towers down to the very front of the subframe near the radiator support - also extended the rear supports of the roll cage through the deck behind the rear seat to another fabbed crossmember at the back just in front of the trunk /spare tire well where my fuel cell and battery is located

hope this helps

so far - so good - going straight !!!

waiting to see how it handles the nitrous next