greezemonkey

iTrader: (14)

Real happy with the changes we did over the winter, first pass last weekend put down a 9.50 on nuts, lost some MPH but thats fine, not crazy about going 160 + in this basically stock car. The tighter converter did not hurt performance, the wider lobe sep bullet cam did not either, the stiff side wall slicks really made launches more consistant and straight also. The car went 8.90 / 153 on a ,061 jet in the plate..real nice, used to take 250 HP to do that, now its less than 150..happy camper. ended the first weekend with a leak in the radiator.
Saturday the 16 th 9.50 on nuts again, then a repeat of the 8.90 but used a .063 jet, mph 154. 3rd run set the progressive on the plate to start at 40% and ramp in in 1.5 secs, set the fogger jetted at 26/20 (little more than a 200 shot) to activate at 1.6 seconds out, car ran clean and pulled to the 1000 ft till it ran out of rpm and got a 8.81 @ 158 :-)
Tried it again with more aggressive settings and pulling third gear broke something in that baby th350, I`m thinking input shaft or drum... 7 passes and its coming down for repairs.

Good news is it`s better on fuel on...i got 7 passes on 5 gallons !

some vid`s of the 81 pass

87_TA

Good news man! Glad to see car back out. So still the same 496 combo wit AFR's? 8.8 is hauling on that small of a shot! Sorry about the th350, mine has now in its second season in the Vega - though my launches are still limited to 3000 rpm, else it just smashes wheelie bars and unloads tires.. Lighter car is keeping it alive as well. I have recently raised bars up a good bit, a little worried about that as now, if I lose bite on one side I will probably roll it. Still can't get that car in the 8's, though I have not made changes yet, same motor still from Camaro. Has run a bunch of 9.0's but never dipped to 8s yet.. If trans last I will go to maryland and pull a high 8 this year.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

man that's awesome news! sounds like you're almost glad it hurt the trans. th350 behind that kinda power for as long as you ran it is impressive. you going to fix the th350 or go 400?

i'm hoping to be out by the end of next month (oh joy, middle of hot GA summer )

1BADRZ28

iTrader: (2)

Nice times. What does your car car scale out at? I was surpised how good of gas mileage my car gets. I get 7-8 mpg with the 555. I had a True Street race with a cruise two weeks ago and only barelt used any fuel. Seems like you have a lot more left in the car.

brandoz28

iTrader: (1)

nice work man! 9.50 on nuts is no joke....that thing is moving out for sure

greezemonkey

iTrader: (14)

Yep same combo, .070 498 cid afr 325`s with a little work. Im pretty happy with the power, its more than the car can handle so it`s always a balancing act getting off the line and of course it`s never had a big end problem. I`m sure you have the same but worse with the vega

you consider a 375 a small shot ? I need a tighter converter or step the rear gear down to run anymore I think, if I can get it in earlier we might see some 8.7 maybe 60`s.

Glad to hear the 498 of yours is still going strong, I cant see why you wont get into 8`s real soon. We have this guy at the track runs a vega with a small block, 1/8 mile car, runs 5.50`s to the 1/8 all motor too. Nice guy Im sure he b happy to lend some traction/vega info if asked!?

Hhaaa yea it was relief to know the motor didnt pop, I got a lifetime warranty on the trans, I just bring it back to autozone and they exchange no questions asked LoL!! I figure that tighter converter is doing its job and transfering more power, hence broken gear box! I`m going to try and keep the 350 I got so much invested in it already, to change it to a 400 its a new torque arm, trans shield, drive shaft plus a fully prepped TH 400 with a brake...man, autozone doesnt carry those either.. Ever look at how much a good input for a th 350 goes for with and aluminum drum....its a shocker. I always enjoy reading about your car Matt, cant wait to hear about it!

3480 last time it was scaled, all the time left to be had in this tank is in the 60 and I`m tire handicapped Thanks

Thank You, it was a win win, I was sure it would lose time on motor with a straight out nitrous stick and tight verter but nope it helped!!

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

NIce runs!

It went 8.90's with a 150 shot. Thats a small shot. 8.81 with alittle more than a 200 shot you say. That aint a huge shot either but decent hit.

greezemonkey

iTrader: (14)

No no I wish 8.81 on both kits

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I was gonna say, the trap speed difference looks like there was more juice involved. That thing is riding out! Great looking car too.

149 on motor is also very impressive.

Shagwell

Killer man, for sure.

I would think there is more left on the table with the 2nd kit, possibly just between the gearing and tune-up.

greezemonkey

iTrader: (14)

Im almost afraid to change the gearing, 4.10`s now with a 29 tire. I did this before with a small shot, had 4.30`s with a 29 tire and would run out of gear at 1000ft on a 125 shot, went down to a 3.70 and was able to run the NOS all the way but lost 2 tenths in the 1/4 and went from 1.4 60`s to 1.5+, landed on the 4.10`s... whats your suggestion? I was thinking of tightening the converter more...maybe try some 20w in the trans. My plugs (ngk 11`s) still look a bit fat with that tune up but all look the same at least. I was going down track with 16 degrees total timing with both kits on... felt good too

Shagwell

16* sounds really soft to me for conventional heads, what fuel do you run? With a .119(roughly 600hp) in the plate, 13.5:1 compression and 118nos fuel I was running around 26*. That was with a 4.56, but a 33" tire; a 4.30 likely would have been better. Also an overly tight converter in my case(I just ran our blower converter), it would barely bump the 3k 2-step in the lights.

I run the tractor fluid in the trans, at most it makes maybe 100-150 rpm stall change vs straight type f.


Trans brake or foot brake and what rpm does it stall to in the lights? Cam specs and shift point? - Looking at the settings for the 2nd kit it's probably not as far off as I'm thinking. 5mph and .08 isn't bad for not turning it on till after the 60' and not ramping it in fully till almost the 330.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Simple tire math here. 4.10 gears, 29" tire (assuming no growth which isnt accurate) and 158mph is 7509 rpm with no slip.

Assume alittle slip from the converter 2-5% lets say, your 7770 at 3.5% slip, 7883 at 5% slip.

Its going to be alittle lower with tire growth, or higher with more converter slip.

If your running out by 1000 ft, chances are with abit less gear it will go 160 mph, unless your power is already falling off past 7000, it may not pick up much more.

3.90 gear will drop it almost 400 rpm if its available. If 3.70's is dropping too much ET on the launch, different converter may help. Or may need to hit more of a shot off the line to get it moving?

greezemonkey

iTrader: (14)

I`m running the VP c-16 for fuel and trans brake launches. usually I would put a new converter on the brake to check the true stall but I never did with this one, it will flash easily to 5000...I chip it to launch to 3800.

its a bullet cam custom grind 278/288 770 with 1.8`s and a 4/7 swap...I`ve been pulling the lever at 7500, shift lite set at 7400, nos off at 7800 and rpm limit at 8000. On the .81 run I had the plate (150) set to start at 40% and be in by 1.5 secs, fogger (215-225hp) set to come in at 2.0 sec`s on a digi set. On the run it broke the trans, I had the 1st kit set the same and brought the fogger in at 1.6, which the tires held it fine. Shift lite comes on well before the 1000ft mark and it surged the last 100ft or so. I think the window switch for the nos was shutting it down (7800) and then dropping back into the window and starting it back up... working on getting the trans out now

Orr89rocz..your math looks exact, I know the power is falling by the low 7`s, this car seems to like the short shift, especially first to second, really helps ET wise but I have not done that this year yet, need to find one of those nascar gears with the odd ratio`s Lol!!

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Hard to say by the cam specs, but maybe its not making much power past 7K and with the nitrous on, most likely peaking abit earlier than when its n/a. I've seen a few cars do this and I think my old 383 did this with the 150 shot. I accidently short shifted once or twice and didnt lose mph or ET and may have picked up time. I didnt play with it much more to find out.

I think a 3.90 gear would be interesting to try or something similar in the 3.85-3.95 range

Wont give up as much on the low end like the 3.73's but wont over rev with the spray at its current settings. I guess you want to shoot for a 160 mph trap at 7500 rpm or so with converter slip with a 7200 ish shift point? Just an idea.

Shagwell

I'd definitely make a pass or three(lol) short shifting it a bit before making a gear change. I would guess with that duration you would find it to be faster with around a 6800-7k shift point; if so then I'd probably target a 7k-7200 gearing through the lights.

My 496 was 345cc big brodie heads, big-brodie single plane and a monsterous cam(actually rec'd for 600+ci) .802/.782, 288/302@.050, 114ls. It would pull strong to 76-7800, but was better than a tenth faster if I shifted it at 7-7200. 4.56 gears, 33" tires, and a 3500 converter that just would stall 3k on the brake w/o a limiter. Had I not sold that motor I would be curious as to how it would have ran with the 4.30 gear, and I know that either gear could have used a bit looser converter.

greezemonkey

iTrader: (14)

Well, I did get the trans out and the input shaft stripped out the input drum, coan has a nice piece for 375 and the total crap incorporated (TCI) company has a nice set up for 650+ but Vortex converter (a.k.a Mike riddings) says we can make it go with what we have, press a new drum onto my mealonized shaft and drop a wave steel into the direct pack so third doesn`t hit like a brick wall. Both he and another local race trans builder believe this is worth a try....sure, they aren`t pulling the trans everytime it pops, but labor is less than parts when you do it yourself and Mike wants to see how far the th350 will go in damn near 3500lbs..glad its got a shield. ****: I`ll try that lower point, set the lite for 6800 so I can pull it by 7000, Thanks.....

P.S. any of you guys ever here about that old chyrsler engineers car from the 50`s called the "high and mighty"??

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

you mean this "high and mighty"

greezemonkey

iTrader: (14)

yep, thats the one...it`s sitting in my buddies garage, he just dropped a MSD distrubtor in it and he asked If I could trailer it down to Milan dragway today for the king of street race, and test n tune prior to that! Then said they were looking for someone to drive it!!?!! `m charging the batteries in my camera as I type!

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

whoa, that's pretty cool! that thing has been a piece of drag racing history since drag racing was still on air fields.

Shagwell

I recognize that car myself.

The lower shift point may or may not help, but the results will give you and idea where to go on the rear gear.

greezemonkey

iTrader: (14)

I shot some pictures, here is some real drag racing history still alive today, talked with Bob Lees, one of the remaining owners today..real cool guy. The cars been updated suspension wise and has had some pro interior work but the motor (originally a 354 hemi) is a 392 hemi with 12.1 comp and a flat tappet hyd. cam...weathers looking gloomy so we`ll see if it gos down this weekend. Sorry for getting off my own post but this was too good not to share.

car_fixer

I think ill throw another wrench at this party I would look at retarding the cam some which will give you some more useable rpm up top, maybe lower the torque at the hit which can be made up with the progressive. also about that turbo 350...I have a chromoly input shaft h-d sprag and stock replacement raybestos clutches and the only thing it has broken so far has been the bellhousing (damn car jumped on it) ... also why do you flash the converter so much it is gonna hit hard flashing 1200 rpm like that, have you tried raising 2 step to flash it less? of course that is if it does stall at 5k . as far as tire limited ......well maybe , maybe not. on 28 10.5 's around here grudge race cars can do 4's in the 1/8th with stock suspension and over 3k lbs and some "street cars" on 29.5 10.5's will run 4's on one kit some of those guys have 2 more kits left to play with. The torque arm suspension is quite versatile, just sometimes it catches you off guard lol . Im running a 385 with 28 's and you got me by maybe .3 at the moment and about 10 mph and the last pass over the scales was 3345. I bet we'd have a good race to the 1/8 th lol

Shagwell

nice "wrench", and something I would likely try myself as well. I always try a RPM change first as it requires no labor/cost, then go from there according to the results.

jbenge

iTrader: (2)

Good work, I like the videos. What track is that?

slow86305

holy **** 149 mph on nuts!!!! congrats getting the back together.

greezemonkey

iTrader: (14)

I looked at that during the build and retarding the cam gets my piston to valve too tight...but you got me thinking, the fogger uses 1 noid for the NOS and it comes on fairly soft compared to the plate, I`m going to switch the kits order and try to come out with more nos but on the softer fogger rather than the plate which hits like a brick wall.
I have not played around with the launch rpm since two years ago sunday, last time I`d even think of going past 4K it would instantly ignite the hides off the line, I`ll give it a try but the converter is tighter than before so I would think the hook would be easier to lose now than before. I`ll give those suggestions a try as you and **** have always had good advise and have the proof in the pudding to prove it, Thank you.

Now its time to crawl under it and finish putting it back together, we split the input drum pretty good, shaft was fine, pressed on a new drum and dropped in a wave plate in the direct clutch to cushion the third gear hit, crossing my fingers on that one. Lastly we will be using the john deere hy gaurd hyd fluid instead of atf...hope to see a few hundred rpms tighter on the big end.

Jbenge..that track is the infamous Laeper international Dragway, only track around without timing boards !!

car_fixer

well i do tend to run things tighter than whats recommended as far as p to v and piston to head but on a big block with bigger valves (heavier) it is probably a good idea to leave some room on the exh. side which is probably the one getting close so guess thats out. to soften the hit on the plate use a longer hose on the nitrous side of the plate between the sol. and plate.
If you switch them watch your jetting, the second stage will want to be leaner than if it was a single stage, if you fogger was set lean for a second stage it may be real lean as a first. some people have said that plates will hit softer square jetted with higher pressure on the fuel side but i havent tried that and would rather that be tried with alot of passes workin up to a full run and checking plugs every partial pass but since you have a fogger thats easiest . I would work at using more power out of the hole though, and most of the time that will mean hitting it hard out of the hole, so id like to see a little more extension out front , not alot but some more. its a vicious cycle lol,always need more power ..more traction.....more power, etc etc...

Shagwell

Squared jetting in the plate with higher fuel psi? That would be ridiculously rich for any set-up I've run; as in like pinch ring land rich. - I do agree that you need to pay attention to the tune-ups when switching stages around, for the exact reason you pointed out. A properly jetted second stage will always be leaner than if it were the first stage.

Greeze, leaving on the fogger and then hitting the plate as you're thinking may very well be a good way to get it out on the small tires.

I run a waved plate in my intermediate stack on my 400's to cushion the hit on the sprag. I run a waved plate at the bottom with a friction on top of it(no flat steel between). It definitely helps there, so I would imagine it would do the same in the direct to help your cushion the high gear change a little.

greezemonkey

iTrader: (14)

Glad to see everyones onthe same page, the longer line is worth a try but wont it just delay or does it actually soften the intial hit? As for tune ups and switching them, I have it set like this currently .061/.063 in the plate on 4.5 psi and the fogger set with 26/20 on a 4.25 psi using C-16, pulling a whole bunch of timming according to shagwell...the plugs could be cleaner too I`ll try posting a picture if you guys would give me your suggestions?? these are 11`s and looking at them now it looks like they are too cold but the 10`s looked to hot almost 4 threads of color on them...maybe more timming with the 11`s?

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

wouldn't pulling less timing help keep those plugs a bit cleaner without going to a hotter plug? i know NOTHING about nitrous, but i want to learn...

car_fixer

hmm, **** you are right, i didnt actually think that through...but it would hit soft, till it lifted a land, so skip the square jetting lol,

from those plugs this is gonna be a little trickey, some of those are looking leaner than the others if you have a digi box its no problem retard the lean ones a degree or 2 , but less timing out all together would be good. this still wont get you out of the hole and it should be better than 1.4 so why dont we leave the power alone and get it moving better? looking at that track i wouldnt want to hit another kit too far out anyway. that car on that tire can at least get low 1.3 60 foot

Shagwell

Those plugs are one hit with no/minimal idle time? If so, take some fuel away from that pig!

You can control the cylinder-to-cylinder tune with the fogger, but you need to be a lot closer than that before getting worried about it.

crappy cell phone pic, but I ended up upping the jetting from a .110 to a .117, and dropping the fuel psi from 5.5 to 5 from this tune(same .102 fuel pill) and it's at least as lean as what you have there:

Shagwell

knew I had decent pics somewhere; here's a clean but still soft tune:

car_fixer

greezemonkey

iTrader: (14)

Those were the ones it it when it pooped the input drum..the had two hits from both stages, shut it off at the turn around road...fired it once more on the trailer to confirm the problem for someone. I need to get it out there again to see if they look any different without the idle time

Shagwell

I shut-off when I'm slowed down enough that I could be in low gear. Until then I leave it in high and just let it drop to an idle. - Only safe thing to do with a typical 3-speed w/o the "clean neutral" valvebody and high-dollar lightweight drums.

greezemonkey

iTrader: (14)

Okay third outing revised the nos tune up slightly, the plate was set at 63 / 61 at 4 1/2 lbs flowing, I upped the nos side to 73 and brought the pressure to 5 1/2. The fogger was 26/20 on 6.0 lbs(thought it was 4.5), backed that down to 5 1/4.
I brought the progressive up to a 50% start from a 40% and timed to be in by .8 sec instead of 1.2
The fogger was 1.6 secs on the digi set and I put that to 1.2 secs.
I was pulling 4 for the plate and 14 for the fogger (i know, I know)

Set it to pull 5 on the plate and 11 on the fogger.


First pass off the trailer, 90* heat
60` 1.36
1/8et 5.62
1/8mph 129
1/4et 8.67
1/4mph 160

Nice, new best 1/8 et and 1/4 numbers!! Thanks Shagwell & car_fixer!, pulled second at 6500 rode 2nd till 7400 and then crossed the stripe on and off the nos at 7800.

Next pass, it came out good and when the fogger hit it burped thru the carb liffted the hood for a sec?? took it back and after a while it started really wierd, found the oil milking again and realized that the hard starting was hydra lock, so 9 passes and the pile is down again but its hard to be mad, when it skipped the 70`s altogether and went from 81`s to 67`s

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

so are you talking intake gaskets or cylinder head gaskets?

greezemonkey

iTrader: (14)

the deck, its had a problem since the sleeve was installed, threads are weak and the studs leak water, i`m not sure what to do yet, half of me says I know this devil and lets get a deck on it and try again. The other half says you have another block lined bored,decked and bored (.060 ad 1 sleeve) so it would need to be brought out to .070 and it`s not new by any means, its had a race life already but a good spare...dunno but I`m thinking of pulling the motor down and getting it checked out by the machine shop and let them make the call. I`m really feeling the need for an aftermarket block.

car_fixer

man that sucks, its probably cheaper in the long run to go aftermarket, but thats a tough nut to swallow. I like those et's better closer to what it should do

gtpro700

Man that sucks to hear your having problems so soon. Nice times none the less though. Its a tough gamble for you because if you keep the block you might be throwing money away but its a bing chunk of change for an aftermarket block. On the studs leaking this might be a stupid question but I think I may have made this mistake which caused mine to leak. Did you make sure to clean the studs very good with something like a brake cleaner to get all the machine oil off of them before installing? My studs were leaking and that was the only thing I could think of that could cause them to leak even though I thought I did clean them. Just a thought not sure if its your problem though. I hope you work it all out and keep us updated on your decision. Good luck.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Yeah i'd use what you have and just check the deck and threads. Are the heads lifting? Or is it just leaking at the studs/

Shagwell

5.62/8.67, that thing is getting it done for sure! More MPH than my nitrous combo, + heavier = more HP; my 4-link and W's pulling the 1.1 60's is the only thing keeping me out on that.

What type of head gaskets? I like the MLS's myself. If the studs are the problem, look into some Catepillar heli-coils; they are a full thread size larger OD and thus are a solid sleeve. - For note, my 496 nitrous combo is a stock 2-bolt main block......lol. The new blower combo is a GM tall-deck block (477ci, 454+.100). With the 1471 spinning 40ish % over we're expecting around 2k hp.

It's hard to say whether the 2nd kit had anything to do with it or not. Did you check the plugs from the pass before?

I would also thoroughly check the fuel system out. You've been making some pretty decent steps going faster and faster, might be starting to out run the fuel flow.

greezemonkey

iTrader: (14)

Turns out the head gaskets are fine, the sleeve split about 1" below the deck straight down for about a total of 2"`s. I have a spare and it`s filled but it`s got 1 sleeve in it as well, I`m getting gun shy with repaired blocks. need cash for a dart block. Plugs cleaned up well from the last tune, (I ran ngk 10`s) header tubes looked great, dark grey for about 1" and light tan for the remainder. I`ve got the tune nailed down, maybe a tad lean even now...there`s 50`s in it, not far off now.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

sweeeeeeeeeet!!!!! when's the dart block showing up?

brandoz28

iTrader: (1)

at least there's some positive, but it really sucks about breaking the block again. is the sleeve that split the one that was replaced?

greezemonkey

iTrader: (14)

yes, the crack runs along the same line that the material is missing in the oe bore, nothing behind it to support it. Spare block is already at the machine shop, all of the oe bore is surrounding the sleeve in that block, it must of had a problem lower in the bore. the hardblok filler must be hiding the damage that originally took place on it.

dart block it wont be this summer

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

lol, ok. didn't now if you had some funds up already. i know the feeling on some engine failure. i hope i'm done with mine for a while.

Shagwell

I have two Dart blocks and a Merlin III, the smallest of which is 4.600 and a 10.2 deck..........lol.

Sleeves don't bother me, but I am particular about what brand sleeve is used and who does the work. - One of my Darts needs sleeved; a wrist pin decided it wasn't playing anymore just under 8k rpm in a 632 combo. I must say the aftermarket blocks will contain a lot more destruction. I kicked that rod in the GM block and literally knocked one whole corner off the block. The Dart has a gouge in the wall(not even broke) and knocked a small section out of the pan rail.


Tune doesn't sound lean yet to me. Some good true fresh plug readings will tell you a lot. 8.50's are definitely on the horizon.