Tall deck BBC in a thirdgen??
02-08-2010, 07:56 AM
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Tall deck BBC in a thirdgen??
I will be installing a tall deck BBC engine in a 87 Camaro. It will have an aftermarket K-member and a full cage including the tubing from the "A" pillar tubes to the front frame members.
Will I be able to use a set of Hooker super comp headers? If not who makes a set to fit.
Engine plates, I plan to use a front engine plate and a rear if I can get it and the headers to fit??
What's everyone else using?
Will I be able to use a set of Hooker super comp headers? If not who makes a set to fit.
Engine plates, I plan to use a front engine plate and a rear if I can get it and the headers to fit??
What's everyone else using?
02-08-2010, 08:42 AM
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Re: Tall deck BBC in a thirdgen??
No go on the Hookers. Check with Lemons or Kooks, but I'd expect to have custom headers built for the app. - Sounds like a build that would largely benefit from custom headers anyway.
02-08-2010, 08:47 AM
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Re: Tall deck BBC in a thirdgen??
I was afraid of that. They are a bit small in tube diameter for the engine I think. The guy I bought it all from was planning a 468 install with them.
Do these companies have a web site or contact information available?
Do these companies have a web site or contact information available?
02-08-2010, 12:08 PM
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Re: Tall deck BBC in a thirdgen??
www.kookscustomheaders.com
www.lemonsheaders.com
I'm sure Stephen(Alky Iroc) will be on here soon. He likely has more knowledge than me on fitting a tall deck block in with a stock type front clip. I did custom side-exit headers.
www.lemonsheaders.com
I'm sure Stephen(Alky Iroc) will be on here soon. He likely has more knowledge than me on fitting a tall deck block in with a stock type front clip. I did custom side-exit headers.
02-08-2010, 02:52 PM
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Car: 1982 Camaro
Engine: 555 BBC
Transmission: TSI Glide
Axle/Gears: Aluminum Moser 3.89
Re: Tall deck BBC in a thirdgen??
Ed Quay headers 895.00 for stepped headers any size you want. They fit great. They are built for one of their k memebers so I had to move a tube. Also it would be a great investment to buy their front and mid plates It's Less fab work. My driver side header slides right in from underneath. The passenger I had to split it in two and you will need a a denso style starter.
02-08-2010, 03:17 PM
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Re: Tall deck BBC in a thirdgen??
You have a very nice looking car. I like it. Did you bend the pipe for over the fenders?
What is are stepped headers? What K-member do you have? Where do the Quay headers exit?
What is are stepped headers? What K-member do you have? Where do the Quay headers exit?
02-08-2010, 03:23 PM
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Re: Tall deck BBC in a thirdgen??
forgot all about the EQ's - they exit underneath, as any "bolt-in" header will for these cars. Stepped meaning the primary tubes step up to a larger size around 1/4-1/3 of their length away from the exhaust port; helps with scavenging.
Very clean 1BADRZ28 - seeing two magnafuel regs, have you previously used one for nitrous? I'm curious as to how it has worked for you. Seems all the big boys use/reccomend the regular cheapy holley 12-803's for the nitrous and after seeing them vs the big dollar units on a flow bench I understand why.
Very clean 1BADRZ28 - seeing two magnafuel regs, have you previously used one for nitrous? I'm curious as to how it has worked for you. Seems all the big boys use/reccomend the regular cheapy holley 12-803's for the nitrous and after seeing them vs the big dollar units on a flow bench I understand why.
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02-08-2010, 08:00 PM
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02-08-2010, 08:14 PM
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Re: Tall deck BBC in a thirdgen??
Tall deck blocks are not an easy swap into a stock front clip third gen but it's not impossible. Just be prepared to do a lot of custom work and don't expect over the counter stuff like swap headers to fit.
The best fitting header will be a set that's custom made specifically for your car. That way you'll have room to go around any component that's in the way.
My engine is only a 540 so it's still a short deck block however my Dart 360 heads have raised exhaust ports. I run motor plates and have my engine dropped down as low as it will go and moved back as far as the headers will allow. My Ed Quay headers are 2-1/4" primaries with 4" slip on collectors. Each tube is separate and after they're bolted to the head, the collector is installed. Mine have the #6 cylinder looping above the frame rail. There's another set available that loops below the car.
Even with a tubular k-member and A-arms, the headers are still not a perfect fit. I have one tube dented to go around a suspension component and another is dented to clear a starter bolt. I can't pull my starter off without removing the header and I have one of the smallest starters available. If you can't get the bolt out, the starter can't come out.
The best fitting header will be a set that's custom made specifically for your car. That way you'll have room to go around any component that's in the way.
My engine is only a 540 so it's still a short deck block however my Dart 360 heads have raised exhaust ports. I run motor plates and have my engine dropped down as low as it will go and moved back as far as the headers will allow. My Ed Quay headers are 2-1/4" primaries with 4" slip on collectors. Each tube is separate and after they're bolted to the head, the collector is installed. Mine have the #6 cylinder looping above the frame rail. There's another set available that loops below the car.
Even with a tubular k-member and A-arms, the headers are still not a perfect fit. I have one tube dented to go around a suspension component and another is dented to clear a starter bolt. I can't pull my starter off without removing the header and I have one of the smallest starters available. If you can't get the bolt out, the starter can't come out.
Last edited by AlkyIROC; 02-08-2010 at 10:43 PM.
02-08-2010, 08:39 PM
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Re: Tall deck BBC in a thirdgen??
Tall deck blocks are not an easy swap into a stock front clip third gen but it's not impossible. Just be prepared to do a lot of custom work and don't expect over the counter stuff like swap headers to fit.
The best fitting header will be a set that's custom made specifically for your car. That way you'll have room to go around any component that's in the way.
My engine is only a 540 so it's still a short deck block however my Dart 360 heads have raised exhaust ports. I run motor plates and have my engine dropped down as low as it will go and moved back as far as the headers will allow. My Ed Quay headers are 2-1/4" primaries with 4" slip on collectors. Each tube is separate and after they're bolted to the head, the collector is installed. Mine have the #6 cylinder looping above the frame rail. There's another set that loops below the car.
Even with a tubular k-member and A-arms, the headers are still not a perfect fit. I have one tube dented to go around a suspension component and another is dented to clear a starter bolt. I can't pull my starter off without removing the header and I have one of the smallest starters available. If you can't get the bolt out, the starter can't come out.
The best fitting header will be a set that's custom made specifically for your car. That way you'll have room to go around any component that's in the way.
My engine is only a 540 so it's still a short deck block however my Dart 360 heads have raised exhaust ports. I run motor plates and have my engine dropped down as low as it will go and moved back as far as the headers will allow. My Ed Quay headers are 2-1/4" primaries with 4" slip on collectors. Each tube is separate and after they're bolted to the head, the collector is installed. Mine have the #6 cylinder looping above the frame rail. There's another set that loops below the car.
Even with a tubular k-member and A-arms, the headers are still not a perfect fit. I have one tube dented to go around a suspension component and another is dented to clear a starter bolt. I can't pull my starter off without removing the header and I have one of the smallest starters available. If you can't get the bolt out, the starter can't come out.
When you installed your headers did you weld them all together or did they come welded? With a tube looping over the frame rail are the headers not welded into the collector, otherwise how would you take them off?
Do you know if the Ed Quay headers will work/fit with an aftermarket K-member like a BMR? Or would I have to have him modify the OEM?
02-08-2010, 08:57 PM
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Car: 1982 Camaro
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Re: Tall deck BBC in a thirdgen??
forgot all about the EQ's - they exit underneath, as any "bolt-in" header will for these cars. Stepped meaning the primary tubes step up to a larger size around 1/4-1/3 of their length away from the exhaust port; helps with scavenging.
Very clean 1BADRZ28 - seeing two magnafuel regs, have you previously used one for nitrous? I'm curious as to how it has worked for you. Seems all the big boys use/reccomend the regular cheapy holley 12-803's for the nitrous and after seeing them vs the big dollar units on a flow bench I understand why.
Very clean 1BADRZ28 - seeing two magnafuel regs, have you previously used one for nitrous? I'm curious as to how it has worked for you. Seems all the big boys use/reccomend the regular cheapy holley 12-803's for the nitrous and after seeing them vs the big dollar units on a flow bench I understand why.
No, I used 803's before. I stepped up to three magna fuels (only two shown)basically for looks and I got a smoking deal plus the ease of the fuel return. Opening up a magnafuel, it is still a check ball system and I won't be running two 500 hp stages at all so I am not worried about them not flowing enough. If they don't work out I have many 803's laying around. I enjoy reading the bullet but some are too quick to jump on the band wagon when things work. Steve likes the 803's and most do because of price but he said the MF will be all that I need plus some.. Each stage will have it's own seperate regulator. If it cant support a 300 shot then the hell with them and back to 803's.
Last edited by 1BADRZ28; 02-08-2010 at 09:08 PM.
02-08-2010, 09:12 PM
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Re: Tall deck BBC in a thirdgen??
Yeah, I am fully prepared for a struggle to get everything in and fitted. I'll sell the Hooker swap headers and get a set of custom built headers.
When you installed your headers did you weld them all together or did they come welded? With a tube looping over the frame rail are the headers not welded into the collector, otherwise how would you take them off?
Do you know if the Ed Quay headers will work/fit with an aftermarket K-member like a BMR? Or would I have to have him modify the OEM?
When you installed your headers did you weld them all together or did they come welded? With a tube looping over the frame rail are the headers not welded into the collector, otherwise how would you take them off?
Do you know if the Ed Quay headers will work/fit with an aftermarket K-member like a BMR? Or would I have to have him modify the OEM?
Ed Quay headers are meant to only work with the Quay crossmember. But I had one tube that needed to be changed to fit the PA crossmember. Yes fitment is tight around the starter as with any 2 3/8 header. A few taps were needed here and there on teh backside. Overall it was money well spent but I welded up the flanges to set my own angle.
02-08-2010, 10:39 PM
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Re: Tall deck BBC in a thirdgen??
My header tubes are a jigsaw puzzle. Each tube is separate and welded to it's own header flange. To install the headers, you install one tube at a time but you need to know the order to install them. The driver's side is relatively easy. The passenger side is tricky. Cylinder 2 and 4 almost go in together. Then #8 is put in place. Finally #6 is snaked around until it's in place. The header bolts are then installed loosely until the collector is installed over the tubes then the header bolts are tightened up.
These are set up for display. Notice that the header flange is cut between each cylinder.
After being on the engine for a few years, they're not as clean as this any more.
02-08-2010, 10:40 PM
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Re: Tall deck BBC in a thirdgen??
Only complaint I've seen about using magnafuel regulators was at the initial hit of the nitrous that they are slower to recover due to the large surface area of the regulator compared to the holley units. Everyone I know that has multiple stages or big shots is running those cheap holley units and runs them through a pressure flow tester to set to the 5.25 pound that the speedtech units call for. I know they set the pressure with that amount of fuel flow going through the regulator rather than static pressure as I was told it can vary.
just my .02 from listening to guys that are spraying the world at motors.
just my .02 from listening to guys that are spraying the world at motors.
02-08-2010, 11:02 PM
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02-09-2010, 07:12 AM
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Re: Tall deck BBC in a thirdgen??
The collectors have little tabs welded on and they're bolted to the tubes.
I've already stated at least once that I have Ed Quay headers.
02-09-2010, 07:20 AM
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Re: Tall deck BBC in a thirdgen??
Sorry, I must have forgotten. This is not the only forum or thread that I follow. Sometimes it is hard to keep everything everyone posts straight.
If I bore you with my questions, simply don't post.
If I bore you with my questions, simply don't post.
02-09-2010, 08:03 AM
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Re: Tall deck BBC in a thirdgen??
No, I used 803's before. I stepped up to three magna fuels (only two shown)basically for looks and I got a smoking deal plus the ease of the fuel return. Opening up a magnafuel, it is still a check ball system and I won't be running two 500 hp stages at all so I am not worried about them not flowing enough. If they don't work out I have many 803's laying around. I enjoy reading the bullet but some are too quick to jump on the band wagon when things work. Steve likes the 803's and most do because of price but he said the MF will be all that I need plus some.. Each stage will have it's own seperate regulator. If it cant support a 300 shot then the hell with them and back to 803's.
Only complaint I've seen about using magnafuel regulators was at the initial hit of the nitrous that they are slower to recover due to the large surface area of the regulator compared to the holley units. Everyone I know that has multiple stages or big shots is running those cheap holley units and runs them through a pressure flow tester to set to the 5.25 pound that the speedtech units call for. I know they set the pressure with that amount of fuel flow going through the regulator rather than static pressure as I was told it can vary.
just my .02 from listening to guys that are spraying the world at motors.
just my .02 from listening to guys that are spraying the world at motors.
I spent a bunch of money figuring out what many high-end nitrous guys already knew. - not saying it won't work ok for you, just posting my thoughts. /thread jack, lol.
02-09-2010, 09:24 AM
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Re: Tall deck BBC in a thirdgen??
this is what I was getting at -
I had been running a Mallory, then switched to a BG, then a Magnafuel, then went to the Holley off most everyone's reccomendations. Most all the regs will flow enough to support the power, but banging it with a valve on the flow gauge the holley is the only one that will basically instantly hit the set flowing pressure. The others response time is slower, and they tend to flutter. I had been chasing my tail trying to get my tune-up clean, the cheapy holley nailed it right out of the gate. I spent a bunch of money figuring out what many high-end nitrous guys already knew. - not saying it won't work ok for you, just posting my thoughts.
/thread jack, lol.
I had been running a Mallory, then switched to a BG, then a Magnafuel, then went to the Holley off most everyone's reccomendations. Most all the regs will flow enough to support the power, but banging it with a valve on the flow gauge the holley is the only one that will basically instantly hit the set flowing pressure. The others response time is slower, and they tend to flutter. I had been chasing my tail trying to get my tune-up clean, the cheapy holley nailed it right out of the gate.
I spent a bunch of money figuring out what many high-end nitrous guys already knew. - not saying it won't work ok for you, just posting my thoughts. /thread jack, lol.
02-09-2010, 09:25 AM
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Car: 1982 Camaro
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Re: Tall deck BBC in a thirdgen??
Only complaint I've seen about using magnafuel regulators was at the initial hit of the nitrous that they are slower to recover due to the large surface area of the regulator compared to the holley units. Everyone I know that has multiple stages or big shots is running those cheap holley units and runs them through a pressure flow tester to set to the 5.25 pound that the speedtech units call for. I know they set the pressure with that amount of fuel flow going through the regulator rather than static pressure as I was told it can vary.
just my .02 from listening to guys that are spraying the world at motors.
just my .02 from listening to guys that are spraying the world at motors.
02-09-2010, 01:21 PM
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Re: Tall deck BBC in a thirdgen??
got a race next week. I was born in IL, you can have it.
Out of curiousity, what CI tall deck combination?
02-09-2010, 04:29 PM
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Car: 86 firebird with 98 firebird interi
Engine: pump gas 427sbc Dart Lil M 13.5:1
Transmission: Oldani TH400 w/ BTE 9" convertor
Axle/Gears: 31 spline Moser/full spool/4.11Rich
Re: Tall deck BBC in a thirdgen??
Stephen, on your starter issue, could you not just stud the hard to get at bolt so all you'd need is clearance for a lock washer/nut, polynut, or locknut?
02-09-2010, 07:25 PM
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Re: Tall deck BBC in a thirdgen??
A stud would probably be worse. There isn't any room to get the nut off the stud then there's no way to take the stud out. The header tube is that close to the starter bolt.
I bet you guys even have lifts in your garages down there too. 
After 3 hours on my back tonight and still not having my old th400 pulled out yet I'm feeling real good.
02-10-2010, 10:07 AM
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Re: Tall deck BBC in a thirdgen??
^ lol. Just bought the lot next door; getting quotes for a 60x40 now which will have 3 roll up doors and a lift.
I have zero starter issues with my headers, lol. miles of room, just takes a second to drop the belly pan.
I have zero starter issues with my headers, lol.
miles of room, just takes a second to drop the belly pan.
02-10-2010, 11:19 PM
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Re: Tall deck BBC in a thirdgen??
Nice, is there any room for my car and boat ??? LOL
02-11-2010, 09:54 AM
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Re: Tall deck BBC in a thirdgen??
homemade motorsports, just like the headers. lol - They're 3" long, similiar to Burns mufflers.I don't seem to have any pics on PB. I just cut 2.75" slits in the collectors above the 90*, then wrapped a 3" wide strip of ceramic muffler packing around it, followed by a 3.5" wide strip of tin welded around it. - extrenally it looks like a small bullet muffler.
currently 6 cars and boat here now....
currently 6 cars and boat here now....
Last edited by Shagwell; 02-11-2010 at 10:23 AM.
02-15-2010, 10:57 AM
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Re: Tall deck BBC in a thirdgen??
i have a tall deck in my car. I have ed quay headers and spohn k member. The flange on the header was not welded from ed quay. We cut the flange and got each tube to fit on the head. Each tube goes up from the bottom in a certain order.
The headers are the only thing that was a pain in the ***. The spark plugs are way easier to get to then my old small block. I also put a remote oil filter on the car because the header blocks access to the oil filter.
The headers are the only thing that was a pain in the ***. The spark plugs are way easier to get to then my old small block. I also put a remote oil filter on the car because the header blocks access to the oil filter.
02-15-2010, 11:03 AM
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Re: Tall deck BBC in a thirdgen??
i have a tall deck in my car. I have ed quay headers and spohn k member. The flange on the header was not welded from ed quay. We cut the flange and got each tube to fit on the head. Each tube goes up from the bottom in a certain order.
The headers are the only thing that was a pain in the ***. The spark plugs are way easier to get to then my old small block. I also put a remote oil filter on the car because the header blocks access to the oil filter.
The headers are the only thing that was a pain in the ***. The spark plugs are way easier to get to then my old small block. I also put a remote oil filter on the car because the header blocks access to the oil filter.
02-15-2010, 04:26 PM
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04-21-2010, 09:59 PM
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Re: Tall deck BBC in a thirdgen??
Hey guys, I've got started on the 87. Got the OEM K-member out and will start hanging the BMR tomorrow.
Just wondering, did you guys with the BBC in the thirdgens, put 2" drop spindles on your cars? Would that make it set to low in the front?
Just wondering, did you guys with the BBC in the thirdgens, put 2" drop spindles on your cars? Would that make it set to low in the front?
04-21-2010, 10:22 PM
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Re: Tall deck BBC in a thirdgen??
I have factory spindles with unmodified Moroso BBC trick springs. I don't need my car any lower than it already is. If you want a ground hugging drag car, build a tube chassis car and drop the body lower over the chassis. Don't mess with the chassis/suspension for aesthetics.
04-22-2010, 07:24 AM
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Re: Tall deck BBC in a thirdgen??
I have factory spindles with unmodified Moroso BBC trick springs. I don't need my car any lower than it already is. If you want a ground hugging drag car, build a tube chassis car and drop the body lower over the chassis. Don't mess with the chassis/suspension for aesthetics.
04-22-2010, 08:08 AM
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Re: Tall deck BBC in a thirdgen??
Stock spindles will be fine. You can drop the car lower with them than what you can clear with a typical 26" front tire anyway. - You may need bump stops to lessen the upward travel anyway, thus the extra upward stroke gain in the strut due to the spindles would be wasted.
If I hit the bars a bit hard and thus it doesn't come down perfectly smooth my 26 MT fronts rub the wheelhouse slightly at my ride height on stock spindles.
If I hit the bars a bit hard and thus it doesn't come down perfectly smooth my 26 MT fronts rub the wheelhouse slightly at my ride height on stock spindles.
04-23-2010, 02:28 PM
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Re: Tall deck BBC in a thirdgen??
After the BBC install, the car was in the weeds. I had to jack up the struts to gain the ride height. You shouldn't need to buy drop spindles at all. BTW my hood is on the car now and you will probably be able to fit tall deck under a 4 inch cowl no problem. I have like 3 inches of clearance with my 6 inch on my std deck BBC
04-23-2010, 04:17 PM
#44
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Re: Tall deck BBC in a thirdgen??
Thanks guys, just the information and advice I needed.
Another problem I'm having is tie rod ends. I'm going to use a wilwood (Pinto) rack & pinion and can't find anything to use the taper in my oem spindle arm and the 1/2X20 threads of the R&P.
Most everyone I've called says I'll have to drill out the holes to 1/2" and use a bolt. BUT, drilling to 1/2" does not take out the entire taper. Sounds funky to me??
What say you guys?
Another problem I'm having is tie rod ends. I'm going to use a wilwood (Pinto) rack & pinion and can't find anything to use the taper in my oem spindle arm and the 1/2X20 threads of the R&P.
Most everyone I've called says I'll have to drill out the holes to 1/2" and use a bolt. BUT, drilling to 1/2" does not take out the entire taper. Sounds funky to me??
What say you guys?
04-23-2010, 05:18 PM
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Car: T/A / Grand Am
Engine: 383 SBC
Transmission: glide
Axle/Gears: 9" ford 5.67
Re: Tall deck BBC in a thirdgen??
drill them 5/8 and use a hiem joint if it is a race only car. I used s10 spindles when I built my car. I ended up breaking a tie rod end at the track last year comming out of the burn out box and jamming on the brakes to keep from getting in too deep. I drilled them out and tapped the spindles, used grade 5 bolts and castle nuts with cotter pins.
04-23-2010, 07:53 PM
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Re: Tall deck BBC in a thirdgen??
drill them 5/8 and use a hiem joint if it is a race only car. I used s10 spindles when I built my car. I ended up breaking a tie rod end at the track last year comming out of the burn out box and jamming on the brakes to keep from getting in too deep. I drilled them out and tapped the spindles, used grade 5 bolts and castle nuts with cotter pins.
04-26-2010, 03:06 PM
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Re: Tall deck BBC in a thirdgen??
I have sleeves welded to my inner tie-rods(rack) that thread a typical 7/16 rod end on the ends. I use some small cone shaped sleeves that are split. They draw into the taper in the spindle and wedge tight around a 7/16 bolt. - Has served me well at up to 170mph so far, will likely be pushing 200 shortly.
Last edited by Shagwell; 04-29-2010 at 11:21 AM.
04-26-2010, 10:09 PM
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Re: Tall deck BBC in a thirdgen??
I have found the parts to connect mine to suit me. Racecraft, Inc. has a bump steer kit that has tapered pins that use the OEM spindle. No matter what I got the Wilwood "Pinto" rack&Pinion is to wide. I would have to cut off a few inches on each tie rod and weld on tubes like you did. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure yours works fine and that is what I was going to do till I found Racecraft. To use their bump steer kit I had to buy a shortened rack so there is room for adjustment.
I only want to do this car once and I want to do it as safe and durable as possible.
I only want to do this car once and I want to do it as safe and durable as possible.
05-24-2010, 12:43 PM
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Re: Tall deck BBC in a thirdgen??
Another question for you guys with back half cars. For now, I'd like to maintain my existing rear deck glass. It is heavy but as was mentioned, it is on the right end of the car. My question is when you guys cut out all the inner fender metal, how far up towards the gas strut mounts did you cut? If I cut away all the webbing to the seal lip area, will the strut mounts hold the heavy glass without distorting the area where it's mounted, or will I have to do something different?