ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Alright guys, i ditched the big block project, i really wanted to do it but i could not in the end afford to do it the way i wanted to get the most power out of it. I could have, but i want it now as i am greedy so what can i say.

So, i bought my 6.0 for 700$, i have the T56 with CF D/F clutch and Hays flywheel, not to mention i already have a Moser 12 bolt in the car with 4.30 gears.

I will be swapping the 317 heads for some 241s probably, mill them down to get 10.5 compression, cam i want is 236/242 @.050, .580/.590 lift on a 112 LSA

Going Vic Jr with a proform carb i built that is mechanical at 750 CFM, MSD 6LS box and i bought the lap top to tune with.

Shooting for 450 to the wheels, we will see.

I am in hopes of 100 MPH in the 1/8th at sub 7s.

What you guys think?

NemeSS-TyranT

iTrader: (1)

should be mid 10's in 1/4 full trim or better

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

too much cam for the heads, i think it'll be a 7.3x car on motor.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

With 3.42 gears and a 3500 stall footbreaking a 79 malibu with a 6.0 and 650 vacuum secondary with 317s and a 232/234 cam V2 torqer, heads ported by me on a rush job flowing 267 at .600 ran 7.3 at right at 97.

So, i am hoping that more porting and the bigger carb and more cam with the deeper gears will net the extra 3 mph and a few tenths. Ought to get out there with the 26x11.5 ET streets.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

i would do the following:
TEA 243 heads
dig7 with distributor

also ditch the t56 if you want to run it a whole bunch and go 6's with it on motor. will save you alot of repair expenses.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

toquer v2 cam has alot more sophisticated valve action than the camshaft you listed. based on duration/lift numbers, the lobes are lazy and will leave alot on the table.

i'm going to be running one of the new comp cams LSr camshafts. much quicker ramp rates, and puts the valve into the better flowing portion of the cylinder head (with good porting or aftermarket cylinder heads) my cam is a 231/239 .617/.624

267 is garbage compared to most aftermarket heads or cnc ported stock heads. the norm is 300cfm, PRC has a decent cnc ported 5.3 head that flow 312 at .600, and will bump compression to close to 11:1, if not more...compression builds torque, and is important to have lots of it with a camshaft like you're looking at. and for the cost at $1150, you can't beat it.

i just feel it's a bit overboard on duration, low on lift, which equals lazy ramp speeds, and not quite enough cylinder head. the car will make peaky torque curves and will be tough to drive.

but it'll sound nice

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Yea, but for what the car is doing on a rush port job, it is damn good, better than i thought it would. I might find a different cam if possible, but i am on a budget and the grind i found is a regrind for 125$.

If i find something like what you are going to run for cheap, sweet, it is what i was looking for, but i doubt it will surface for 200$ or less.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

leave the engine stock.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

As in dont mess with it at all or the short block(which i plan on doing)?

Just doing a cam and ported heads.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

6.0l iroc has a solid lq4 combo running in his car. basically a g5x2 with a set of stock 853's, carbed and a 150shot. very good runner. been 10.2x's

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

What is it on motor? Any time slip info?

NemeSS-TyranT

iTrader: (1)

flow numbers do not mean end all for these ls motors. my own ported heads that flow 280cfm support my 500rw 375ci cast piston motor. his car will run well for what he has.

NemeSS-TyranT

iTrader: (1)

hes like mid 11's with a stalled 700r4 iirc

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

500rwhp? 375ci? cast pistons? what is this combo???
how much nitrous or supercharger?

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

500rwhp, cast pistons, 375ci, 280cfm intake flow? seems like to me

NemeSS-TyranT

iTrader: (1)

and thru stock ls6 intake with 85mm tb. thru t56 and stock rear
all u want bro.
it has over 45k miles on it now and awaitng to go into a c5 now

NemeSS-TyranT

iTrader: (1)

self built and machined 05 lq4
stock crank, rods, speed pro replacement pistons, arp rod bolts.
self machined and upgraded vj rev 2.02 valves with bc 243's 11.25:1scr
HKE spec cam, udp, ps lt, jesel ss 1.7, tsp pr, pp dual golds, stock ls6, ported bbk 85mm tb, sd tune
stock t56, spec3+. stock rear. 7000rpm shifts. 493rw n/a
have also ran 150 dose thru it countless times.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Ok, well, i want 10s on motor, i know the damn 4.30s will help allot, but bottom 11s is ok too. I just want sub 7s in the 1/8 at 100. That is what i am really shooting for.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

well, if that's the case, mine should put done like 475 through an auto, cause i'll have more head flow (and decent mid lift numbers too, not just peak, with a decent intake:exhaust ratio)

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

All these high peak hp motors never really do that well at the track compared to my smaller cam choices with more overall power. I could care less that for 200rpm the motor makes a ton more power, I'm more interested in overall power. Besides I run one of the quietest exhausts out of anyone else at our track rentals and my cam only setup has embarrassed quite a few shop built heads/cam motors. I'm looking forward to selling off this ls1 and tossing in a L92/6.0L soon as well.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

you can hit 500rwhp with a 6.0L, AI/tea 243's and a fast 90/90 with 232/236 cam with the belt pulled.... seen it done.
doing it with self ported heads and a stock LS6 intake is for sure pretty awesome.

you can go 6.90's@100 with a nice set of heads and a 230ish cam if the car is setup pretty decent.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Well, if i can pick up:

TSP XS Series Camshaft:
233/239, .595"/.603"

OR:

The Texas Speed Tsunami 235/240, .654"/.609", 111 LSA Camshaft.

For a good price with my discount, i will go that route for sure, i prefer the first one so my valve spring choice will be a tad cheaper.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

ok, so i lied (kinda). i bought my camshaft today...found a deal i couldn't pass up. 232/240, .597/.608, 112+4. i hope it works well.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

i have the 233/239 cam in my LS1 car.... unmolested 243 heads, longtubes w/stock SS exhaust, LS6 intake w/85mm tb, t56/4.30 12 bolt.... made 395ish running lean.

i would much rather have some badass heads and a LS6 cam, though.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

This is assuming a LS1?

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

not sure what you mean, but mine is an LS1. only 13-14 cubes difference between that and a 6.0, though.

and yes, i would prefer the nice heads/small cam anyday over the big cam not so great heads.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Ls1 is a 346 and the 6.0 is a 365, so it is nearly 20 cubes and that translates to 30 more HP or so.

Glad you like small cams.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

good heads and an LS6 cam will outrun stock heads and big cam any day of the week if both setups make the same peak power.
oh, and still drive like a stock car. which is why i like the small cams.

NemeSS-TyranT

iTrader: (1)

i highly reccomend that u check out the LPE GT11 cam. that is one killer cam when paired even with stock ls2 heads. dont let its low duration fool you. it is very aggreesive wot. ive used this cam before twice now and have reccomended it many times all the times with great feedback.
it is even more pronounced in 6.0 engines. even with stock 317 heads and mill down for 10:1

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Honestly, i am thinking about the Torqer V2 cam to bring things down a bit more, i still have time to figure it out, that way the power levels will be less peaky and more across the board...

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Well, to compare, we took my buddies 79 malibu to the 1/4 last friday,Mods:

99 6.0, 317 with a slight port job by me(bowl blend and clean up, torqer V2 ca, 232/234 @.050, LQ4 pistons, heads were milled to get 10.5 or so, Vic Jr intake with Demon vac sec 650 carb. TH350 with 3500 stall, 3.73 gears. Car weighs 3240 without driver.

1.7 60 foot (previous best 1.8)

7.4 @ 95 mph (previous best 7.3 @ 96 with 3.42 gears)

11.58 @ 117

So, with that being said, there is more left on the table, the weather was nice and cold, so it should have done better or as good as it has.

The 1/4 mile from the 1/8th time told me it is losing 30 HP or so, i think it is not getting the fuel it wants. Trapping 117 from 95 in the 1/8, a 22 MPH gain and it should have been a 120 or so. Funny thing it, we had the best ever 60 foot with the new 3.73 over the 3.42 but we were .10 slower in the 1/8. Something in the tune is not right, but we only made 1 pass, so the truth is there is allot left in the car, i think it has 11.0 in it.

So, from that, that is why i want the slightly bigger cam, port the heads a bit more, and i have a deeper 4.30 gear and i want to shoot for 10s

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Well, her are the specs of the cam i am going with, it is a bit larger than i planned but it is designed for carbed LS engines like mine, the PTV is the only issue i will need to check out, but it will be a running MFSOB, not to mention it will sound sick:

Intake Duration: 236 Degrees at .050" Tappet Lift.
Intake Lift: .615" with 1.7 rockers.
Exhaust Duration 248 Degrees at .050" Tappet Lift
Exhaust Lift .615" with 1.7 rockers.
108 Degree LSA

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Alright, cam i laded is a Trex, so that is the change, ported the heads, dropped them off, have the 6010 MSD6LS box, vic jr intake, going to use a S10 manual steering box still, and i am really trying to pull some scratch together for some headers that are decent enough to support the engine.

For those that dont know, the Trex is: 242/248 @.050, .608/.612 lift on a 110 LSA. So it is allot bigger than i planned and the cam has made 430 RWHP on bolt on LS1 cars with unported heads with a best of 10.4x on motor i think is the record for the cam, so i am thinking i will be pleased with it.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

10.4 on motor with a 4.56 geared gutted all out 6 speed car. You'll be in the 11.2 range at best I'm thinking.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Id be happy with that, but i will be not happy till i am cracking 10.99-11.49 on motor. We will just have to see if i can get kicked off the track in one pass, LOL.

Stevo

iTrader: (45)

What kind of race weight are you hoping for?

My bolt-on Z06 does 11.3x on stock clutch. About 380rwhp 3215 raceweight. That is with M12 gearing which is the equivalent of M6 with 3.73s.

I'm building a cam only ls1 for my third gen i am hoping for 29xx raceweight with my skinny self. M6 with 3.73s. Hoping for bottom 11s, high 10. Hopefully no clutch issues with this swap. I do rentals mostly so not looking at putting a bar in the car right now.

Clutch cars can be a pain on the strip...everyone knows that. It is also very hard to get slip from some clutches. They can be too grippy and cause massive bog or rip the car apart on a good launch. Well with corvette rears that is...

What clutch are you going with? Still on 10 bolt?

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Think it will be about 3200 lbs, it has a Moser 12 bolt with 4.30 gears, so launching should have zero bog, at least i have never bogged with 4.10s or deeper. It is a center force dual friction, i think it is going to slip honestly.

Stevo

iTrader: (45)

4.30s...that ought to be fun coming off the 60'. Ready, set, SHIFT! Well your car should go low low 11s. High 10 definitely possible.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Yea, that si the numbers i am looking for, 10s would be awesome, but i think the lack of compression might hold back.

Did get the Hawks 1 3/4 3 inch collector headers on order.

Shagwell

I love everyone getting tied up with flow numbers and dyno numbers....my 496 with a set of old as dirt conventional big brodies made 423rwhp n/a but ran in the 9's @ 3020lbs. Flip the switch before you launch and that quickly becomes low 8's.

Screw racing dynos and flow benches, build a well matched combo and enjoy it.

1BADRZ28

iTrader: (2)

yep.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

i understand that there is alot more hype on dyno numbers and flow numbers than there should be, but those numbers are there to help you. who cares about peak numbers, what i care about is numbers across the board. whether we're talking power numbers under the curve, or mid lift flow numbers. they ARE important.

i picked up a really nice set of cnc ported ls6 heads for under $1500. that's dirt cheap for the flow numbers they put out. with the amount of money i was going to pour into the 317 heads i had to make those work, i was nearly to the cnc heads anyway. i don't have the equipment to do my own machine work, so machining costs have to be factored in for me.

long and the short of it is, that i think everyone that was telling him there are better heads out there for the money were just saying that his efforts would be truncated if he'd spend about $1000 more on the overall combo. (cam, heads, everything)

Shagwell

I'm with you and fully agree. The more data made available to us the better choices we can make to build a combo to suite our own particular needs.

Some of us just go with what we can afford and bottle or force in what it doesn't do on it's own, lol.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Exactly, most people dont know that mid lift numbers on LS cars mean more than peak numbers any day. I personally wish i could get better heads right now but i dont have the cash. I just ported and polished my headsfr free, doubt i picked up more than 20 CFM but it was free, so between milling, valve job and springs/lock/retainers i will have a set of home ported heads for 400$ ready to rock, not allot of money and the springs can be swapped out if i get different heads, not bad for a budget, i am still sick over spending so much on headers though...


Also, across the board is where the LS engines make more power than the old SBC engines, just another reason they are the way to go in my book, but i still wish i could have finished my big block, LOL.

daverr

iTrader: (1)

A well built SBC will meet or beat the performance of a LSx engine.
You should of stuck with your guns and gone with the BBC instead of the LS engine.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Well, the fact that a SBC will never be able to strap in a cam and pushrods with some springs mad make tons of power like a LS is the whole budget thing for me. SBC need to have allot replaced to keep up with what the stock LS can so, ANY LS aluminum heads will flow over 300 CFM, a SBC cannot say that. The LS is just the update and the older SBC needs too much to keep up, i have built many of them and now i have just given up since:

A SBC needs a distributor, ignition box, 2 step and timing retard box that is over 500$ worth of parts to compete with my MSD 6010 that has all of that built in for a touch over 300$.

Wish i would have had the funds to finish the big block, but at the same rate, i can just get another 5.3 0r 6.0 for 5-700$ if i need another one VS blowing up a big block and having to search, then build and all that, i just found the most well rounded way to go about making a very fun ride and not break me if it breaks.

Not to mention, SBC rods suck compared to the LS setups. The pink rods are ok, but capscrew rods are what i used in my SBC anyway and the LS just has it stock.

I can keep going on and on, i am happy with my decision.

Shagwell

I honestly doubt the sbc vs bbc vs ls debate will ever end. All three can be built to work well in many applications. That said, stock for stock the old-schoolers do not compare to an LS motor, however, aftermarket vs aftermarket is a whole new can of worms.

The old-school sbc merlin block designed to use the LS heads is probably king of the "semi budget" small block builds, while the big $ can still be thrown either way to make either combo work well.


All that aside, there still is no replacement for displacement. I've got a full can of BBC whoop-azz that can be available to any type small block that wants a piece. I can even do n/a, n2o, or fi.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Yea, but that block is nowhere in the term budget for me, that thing is out there in price. I cannot lie, i wish i did the big block, but there is no convenience for me to use one...unless i made allot more money.

daverr

iTrader: (1)

GM stopped using SBC in their production vehicles almost twenty years ago.your not going to find too many good sbc in the junkyard. The AFR LSx cylinderheads flow 314 cfm and will set u back $2500. The AFR SBC 220 will flow 326 cfm and only cost $2079. An LSX block will cost you $2129 while a Dart little M block will cost u $2134.There are SBC cylinderheads that flowed 300 to 400+cfm 15 years ago ,a LS cannot say that. Lastly the SBC are not going away soon and are the reason why they have LSX only events.

You could only buy sbc rods with a cap scews this century. And obviously you wouldnt want to stick with stock rods when your making more power with the LS engine. Unless you find it cheaper to just keep swaping $700 junkyard engines with 50k to 100+k mile ???

A well built SBC will cost the same as a comparable well built LSx engine u cant cheat that by buying junkyard parts.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

that 215cc lsx head you quoted as only flowing 314cfm was on a 3.90" test bore@ .600" lift, the SBC 220cc heads you quoted flowing 326cfm was on a 4.125" test bore@ .700"lift. please make sure you have apple to apples before throughing numbers around. the same 215lsx head on a 4.125" bore flows peak 324cfm @.600" lift, the SBC 220 head only flows 317cfm on a 4.125" bore and .600" lift. also, mid lift numbers on the lsx heads is superior to the sbc heads. thus...making MORE power across the board in a similar combo.

for comparison, my PRC stage 2.5 ls6 heads flow 316cfm on a 3.9" bore at .600", and cost $1400. take that AFR sbc 220cc heads!

stock connecting rods and crankshaft with arp upgrades have been known to be reliable at 550+rwhp range on the lsx. can your chevy "pink" rods say the same?