83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Ok, I know that there has been talk about copper lines not passing tech (the car is used for drag and autox, so either would apply), and I'm not interested in arguing the engineering details (there's a right and a wrong place for everything, for what I'm thinking about doing they're more than strong enough, work hardening... won't be an issue, heck, some European car manufacturer's use assorted copper alloy lines from the factory), but what I want to know is if there is actually a rule in any of the rulebooks (NHRA, IHRA or autox) that specifically forbids it.

Last time I tried finding something I could see a clear delineation between hard lines, braded lines (and I guess pushlock hose) and rubber hose, but nothing that said that copper is explicitly forbidden.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

Why would you want to run copper lines? Spools of aluminum or steel lines are cheap as it is, and really the proper way of doing it involves hoses and an fitting

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

No Euro manuf. uses copper, you must mean cunifer (copper nickel iron alloy, CUpru NIckel FERro). It's a much better alternative than copper and it doesn't rust so no more rusty steel brake lines. It's very easy to work with and conforms to fittings and couplers better than steel, sealing issues are almost non existent. Very easy to bend and flare, not even a tubing bender is required as it easily bends by hand or over whatever tool you use (like a handle) without flattening the bend.

AlkyIROC

Copper brake lines, fuel lines, oil lines??

The only line I would use copper for is an oil line but even then, I use steel and steel braid.

You would never use copper for brake or fuel line. Copper is too soft and can easily be damaged, cracked, broken. Leaking oil pressure is one thing. Leaking fuel or brake fluid is too dangerous.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

I really don't care to argue engineering details or what _you_ would do or not do... that's irrelevant. IS IT LEGAL, or more accurately, is there any rule against it?

OK, beyond that maybe I will entertain a few arguments:
- comparable steel and aluminum tube is typically cheaper I don't care about cost
- I don't get why people are fine with aluminum fuel lines and not copper, aluminum has a lower yield strength (the stuff that you typically buy in a roll is about 34MPa, pure copper is around 70MPa) and otherwise both have similar properties (work hardening...). Typical copper tube will be more resistant to damage from the additives used in modern fuel. The only advantage that I can think of that aluminum has is that it is much less dense/lighter.
- I'd bet that a sweated copper joint is stronger and less likely to fail than any joint commonly used with aluminum.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

yep, you're right, and I can only guess that they use that stuff not because it's stronger (it's not) but because of superior form-ability and work-hardening properties

J91

Go to NHRA website and look up the rules, although I would highly recomend, not using copper, for the reasons stated above. SAFETY FIRST!

AlkyIROC

As I said, a copper line used for an oil pressure gauge inside the car is acceptable.

For brake lines, copper has never been an accepted material.

For fuel lines, the rulebook simply states "All lines must be NHRA/IHRA accepted" Both sanctioning bodies state the same rule. NHRA also says "metalic lines". Copper for fuel lines has never really been an accepted choice of material so if you want to know if you can do it, contact the proper sanctioning body and ask them. Short sections are probably fine but lines running the length of the car may be questionable.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Stephen, that's kind of more like what I was looking for, and also what I've found. The NHRA has a supplement "Accepted Products" list that shows what that is for flexible lines, but doesn't list hard lines at all in there (at least not that I've found.

http://www.nhra.com/userfiles/file/N...edProducts.pdf

From what I've seen, it appears that most rules are "hardlines or accepted soft lines" which would imply that copper is fine. My $.02 copper being both stronger and more durable than the common aluminum should be fine from an engineering perspective (although I would give a pretty good argument that aluminum shouldn't be legal, at least not like it is used by most people, I've seen tons of leaking aluminum lines, mostly from getting crushed by whatever fittings that they were trying to use which in a lot of cases were designed for more ridgid copper or steel lines)

ezstriper

simple question is what are you using it for ?? like said before for a oil pressure gauge fine...anything else no...