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First Time at the track

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Old 06-06-2009 | 02:42 AM
  #1  
vortec350s10's Avatar
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From: Minnesota
Car: '88 Iroc
Engine: Single turbo Vortec 5.7, Megasquirt
Transmission: Probuilt 700r4 3000 stall Vigilante
Axle/Gears: Moser 9" 3.25 w/True Trac
First Time at the track

Alright guys here's the story. I went to Brainerd (BIR) a couple weeks back for the first time with my car.
Car specs: 350 HO with XE268 cam, performer rpm intake, 1 5/8 ceramic shorty headers, Demon 650 vac sec carb, TCI 700r4 with fairly tight converter, 3.42 gears, street tires.
On the chassis dyno ran 260hp @5400, 290 tq @ 3800.
It was the hottest day of the summer so far, 85 degrees. The problem I had is once I would get to the end of second gear and all through third I would start to lose power, to the point where i would just let off the gas halfway down the track 'cause it really didn't make any difference. After a few seconds- through the traps- it would progressively start to make power again. It seemed like the bowls were running out of fuel but I had never had this problem on the street. And for how much I've tested it I would of thought I would have had this problem before. 11 runs and almost all had the same problem. I had never ran it with this carb on that hot of a day yet so that is the only factor I can think of. Man I was getting frustrated. If I could break 100mph trap speed I would win a T-shirt. I got close a couple times but the loss of power was killing me! I knew it would do it if it would just run like any other day! Well, towards the end of the day, I let it cool for 20 mins and raised my float levels a little- to the top line on the windows. That run which is what the video is, was the best, which seemed like only a little sputtering in third. The stock jets in there at the time were 70 primary, 78 secondary. Now of course once I got home it hasn't been that hot of a day yet where I could try to duplicate my problem. I have since leaned it out to 67 secondaries, 74 primaries, which seems decent. I'm not sure on the secondaries yet but I got the primaries where I want them. Could running on this hot of a day make much difference from a 70 degree day? I guess what I'm wondering is if it was really rich, is is possible it could load up going down the track? Any ideas? I ran the **** out of it on the dyno (65 degree day)with no problems whatso ever. Sorry for the annoying sound of rice and clutch burning on the video.

Time slip for the run on video:
60ft 2.336
1/8 9.132 @ 80.49
1/4 14.002 @101.01

http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o...nt=Bestrun.flv
Old 06-06-2009 | 07:48 AM
  #2  
joeblue83's Avatar
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From: Southern Wisconsin
Car: 1988 Camaro
Engine: 383 Stroker
Transmission: Probuilt 700 R4
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Re: First Time at the track

looks like its time to get some new rubber in the back. What do you have for an exhaust. For my car I have a 3 inch exhaust and as I go down the track, the car feels like its just not pulling anymore. I then opened the cutout on the next run and dropped .60 seconds and noticed a huge difference. So I don't know if your still running the stock exhaust and y, but if you are that could be a reason also. Your times for your power level are about where they should be. Around mid to high 13's
Old 06-06-2009 | 11:35 AM
  #3  
vortec350s10's Avatar
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 475
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From: Minnesota
Car: '88 Iroc
Engine: Single turbo Vortec 5.7, Megasquirt
Transmission: Probuilt 700r4 3000 stall Vigilante
Axle/Gears: Moser 9" 3.25 w/True Trac
Re: First Time at the track

For exhaust I have 2 1/2" headpipes, they Y at the stock cat location to a single 3" all the way back to a Magnaflow crossflow muffler with 3" inlet , two 2 1/2" outlets. I don't think I have a major restriction there. The tires I have are 275/40/17 BF Goodrich G-Force Sports. So yeah- nothing sticky at all. Another idea for my loss of power- when my car sits for a while hot, either shut off or idling, I think the fuel in the carb gets hot or something 'cause if I take off pretty hard after the motor has been off for 20 mins, it sputters and will almost kill until it gets fresh cool gas back into the bowls it seems. Does anyone have this problem? I have a 1/2" heat spacer on there too.
Old 06-06-2009 | 12:27 PM
  #4  
AlkyIROC's Avatar
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From: 51°N 114°W, 3500'
Car: 87 IROC L98
Engine: 588 Alcohol BBC
Transmission: Powerglide
Axle/Gears: Ford 9"/31 spline spool/4.86
Re: First Time at the track

It sounds like you're not getting enough fuel at the top end. The fuel pump isn't pushing enough fuel or the needle and seats in the carb are too small and won't let enough fuel into the bowl. Any number of things can restrict the fuel flow from a plugged or dirty filter to a pinched or too small of a fuel line.

Raising the float level won't change how fast the fuel enters the bowl.

Picture what is happening in your carburetor when you raise the float levels. The booster can now more easily pull the fuel "over the hump" to allow it to leave the bowl area and enter the venturi area and be ingested by the engine. If you allow the fuel to be pulled in too early the part throttle operation and low speed air to fuel ratio ingested by the engine will typically be rich, ratty and unburnable. If you have your float level too low, the booster will be delayed a few extra milliseconds when you hit the throttle off an idle and this will create a delay in throttle response and in some cases the car will shut off.

At launch time if the level is too low, the car will be too lean at the launch when air speed/signal is at its lowest point. As a result the car may hesitate or be down significant amounts of torque as a result of being lean but for a moment. If the level is too high, raw fuel may come pouring out of the
boosters when idling/part throttle and during hard acceleration. So float levels require tweaking for the application. Start low and work high.
Those hot, humid days also raise the density altitude. You were not making anywhere near what your dyno HP was. Higher altitude air means there is less air to mix with the fuel. Less air/fuel to burn means less HP. If jetting stayed the same but less air was available then the engine would be running fat (too much fuel for the air available). Brainerd has an official altitude of 1200'
Old 06-06-2009 | 12:32 PM
  #5  
AlkyIROC's Avatar
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From: 51°N 114°W, 3500'
Car: 87 IROC L98
Engine: 588 Alcohol BBC
Transmission: Powerglide
Axle/Gears: Ford 9"/31 spline spool/4.86
Re: First Time at the track

You need some better tires for traction to get that 60' time lower. Your camshaft needs a converter that stalls in the 2300-2500 range for best performance.
Old 06-06-2009 | 01:54 PM
  #6  
vortec350s10's Avatar
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Member
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 475
Likes: 2
From: Minnesota
Car: '88 Iroc
Engine: Single turbo Vortec 5.7, Megasquirt
Transmission: Probuilt 700r4 3000 stall Vigilante
Axle/Gears: Moser 9" 3.25 w/True Trac
Re: First Time at the track

Thanks for the advice. I realize I will need some tires for a decent launch. Well I'll be going back up there on the 17th so I'll see what happens then. My converter is a B&M Holeshot 2400 but is way tighter than advertised. My friend has basically the exact same car/engine but with a XE274 cam, 3.73's, TH350, and 3000 stall. With street E.T.'s he was doing 13.1 @ 104. His engine made 390hp at the crank. Do you have a good link or explanation with more about float levels and what they affect? I'm new to the Holley style carb, and can't stand not knowing what is going on in there.
Here's a video of our first run.
http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o...t=MevsJosh.flv

Last edited by vortec350s10; 06-06-2009 at 02:05 PM.
Old 06-06-2009 | 01:59 PM
  #7  
AlkyIROC's Avatar
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25 Year Member
 
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 17,171
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From: 51°N 114°W, 3500'
Car: 87 IROC L98
Engine: 588 Alcohol BBC
Transmission: Powerglide
Axle/Gears: Ford 9"/31 spline spool/4.86
Re: First Time at the track

http://www.barrygrant.com/demon/default.aspx?page=28
Old 06-07-2009 | 09:10 AM
  #8  
mw66nova's Avatar
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From: Harford County, MD
Car: camaro sportcoupe
Engine: 7.0L
Transmission: G-Force GF5R
Axle/Gears: Moser 9"
Re: First Time at the track

Originally Posted by Stephen 87 IROC
You need some better tires for traction to get that 60' time lower. Your camshaft needs a converter that stalls in the 2300-2500 range for best performance.
these are the very issues i'd address before changing much else...other than making sure you have plenty of fuel supply. 101mph at 14.00 does not indicate lack of power up top, but rather a lack of ability to get out of the hole.
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