IHI

iTrader: (1)

Figured i'd throw up a thread of it's own so it's easier to find. I bought a Comp Engineering front end limiting kit from a fellow racer and installed it this afternoon so hopefully it will tame down the wheelies every pass Kind of changed things around and put my own twist on it. I had my BIL pick up some forged eyebolts and drilled them up through the strut towers so they are pulling on multiple layers of steel. I also put them in front of the struts since i did'nt want anything near the calipers/brake lines and after mocking them up and "cycling them" there is nothing up there they can hit on or get tangled up with. I chose to stick with the cable vs the chain since i street drive and did'nt want to listen to anything clanging around up front.

Car sitting in the garage had 4" of piston showing through the strut. When jacked up at full extension there was 7" so for my inital setting setting is only allowing 1.5" of extension to see what that does. If it hooks and still wheelies 12" or so, then i'll pull it down so there is no extension at all, and see what happens. If it still hooks and still wheelies, then i'll compress the suspension and start going that way looking to make this thing leave flat/straight. If none works, THEN i'll spend the time and money and make some Mustang double adjustable struts fit this thing...but wanted to experiment with the fast and cheap first.

AlkyIROC

The original one I fabricated was like that but I found the adjuster at the bottom difficult to access. It's easy to adjust when the car is sitting on jack stands but sitting on the ground, there's just no way to get underneath to change the adjustment. I switched it over so my adjuster bolt goes through the top. I use a grade 8, 3/8" NF threaded rod for infinite adjustability.

First idea on the adjuster





After switching it around. Now adjustment can easily be accessed from the top. If I have all the limit taken out of the cable, the adjusting rod sticks up through the inner fender but still doesn't touch the hood.







So far I've gone from no extension of full extension. Because my car doesn't wheel stand like others, I leave it at just about full extension. I could also tighten up the front shocks to limit extension.

At least you have the cable clamps going the right direction

stage20

iTrader: (3)

i like how you ran your brake line.
good stuff.
might pick up a few #'s keeping the front end down.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Did'nt have anyother option, the pan i used to run i could'nt have the brake line running on top of the K member since i could'nt get it down and past without catching it, so i had to move it to the front of the K member and this was the only path i could find that made sense without trying to thread a needle with multiple bends and what not to make it happen...i need to paint it black to blend in though..it drives me nutz LOL!!

I hope it's good for a few .00X by strapping it down but i just hope it hooks, hook consistantly, and most importantly always me to get control over my R/T's again which is the only reason i did this in the first place. ever since the car started popping out of the beams the R/T's have been sparatic like a ****, some guys said, "it's just you", but i raced 3 other cars last year as well as my own and i still retained my tight and consistant window i've had since the first day so i know it's the car and the popping up that is playing games with me

Shagwell

The adjustable struts would definitely help, but I doubt you'll need less than 1.5 " of down travel. I'm currently running 2" with a 33x10.5w rear tire, you'll be considerably more likely to be able to un-load the littler tires.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

That's where it's going to be touch and go obviously trying to do all this crap on a small tire AND try to keep the front end down, AND try to make 60's identical all day and all night long....i ask for alot LOL!!

OR if this limiting BS does'nt work, then i'll leave the cables off, put 50lbs over the nose and see what that does. Either way, my junk has plenty of Antisquat so i guess we'll get to see first hand if it needs all that weight shifting back to stay planted or if it's just wastede motion climbing the ring gear.

stage20

iTrader: (3)

what do you run for springs out back?

IHI

iTrader: (1)

stock springs plus lakewood 50/50 shocks

I honestly dont know how much a rear shock/spring change would make since the car does'nt squat like it used to with the long tq arm...the few video's i've watched of my junk, the rear fenders stay about the same distance from the tire, and looks to possibly seperate a bit actually since the short bar really increases the AS in these things.

Been debating fabbing up different LCA brackets to try and put the IC out a bit further too...so we'll see. As the car sat it consistantly went 1.33 or 1.36 60's while making nitrous passes back to back to back, but i want to get rid of these stupid wheelies all together as it's completely ruined my R/T's...i need the front tires to go back to dragging through the beams instead of popping up and out of them since they seem to break the beams a bit differently each time even though the 60's dont move more than .005-.01 all day/night long.

BT283

iTrader: (3)

You should use a chain because that stuff will streach

Shagwell

^ unless you go to a fairly big chain, they will stretch over time as well. I run 1/4 cable w/o any issues, always have. Actually, I often run 3/16 cable if the springs aren't loaded to heavily against them.


It doesn't take much travel change to make a pretty big difference in how the car reacts. - Raising the rear of the control arms will lessen weight transfer as well.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

So that's essentially like a "4 link" per say, by raising the rear of the LCA it's changing the intersecting points and taking some hit away from the rear tire and putting it back into the chasis if i'm assuming correctly?

AlkyIROC

Sort of like a 4-link but the torque arm suspension is a little different. I'm not sure how to calculate the IC with a torque arm.

Technically, raising the rear of the LCA will move the IC forward and downward which will take some of the bite out. Raising the rear of the LCA will also move it closer to the axle tube which will decrease the leverage put on the LCA.

Similar to a 4-link suspension, the lower bar should be parallel to the ground or up slightly in the front. With all the extra holes available for a 4-link. The IC can be moved up or down without moving it forward or backward. My current 4-link setting has the bottom bar almost parallel to the ground and is in the bottom holes in both brackets. Adjusting the top bar, my IC is 57.4" out from the axle centerline and 7.8" off the ground. Might not be a perfect setting but after playing with different settings all year, this one is working the best.

BT283

iTrader: (3)

we do use a good size chain and we still check it everytime we go to the track, a lil bit of extra travel can send you the local hot rod shop for a new rack.

Shagwell

Stephen's answer was on key. The lower bars act similiar to a 4-link, but the IC calc is very funky. I've never actually sat down and figured IC on a tq arm car, I just play the settings till I get it to do what I want.

I have the tq arm calculations on my lap top at home. If I get a chance I'll post the info up, might make for a decent sticky.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

It'd make for an excellent reference post!! Ultimately my first thought was making an adjustible bracket to raise/lower the front attachment point for the tq arm...actually the only adjustiment i'd have is to lower it since i run the short jeggy unit and it's already up against the tunnel brace in out of box stock form. But just figured with all the meat in the LCS bracket area on this 9" rear i could just as simply raise the point a bit with no more than time to bore the new hole through it....like i said, i hate to spend another $500+ for a long bar to take some pressure off the rear tires.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

dont bother with the front mount on that arm, it wont help any until you change the length of the arm. no matter how high or low the front mount is, the arm will still be pushing up on the same spot in the car. youll have to move the mount foward or rearward and change arm length. that being said, the only real option for changing how the car hits the tires is the lower control arms.
my car is still hitting the tire a little too hard, and im probably going to go to a shorter spring out back to lower it a bit more. (which will move the LCA angle to nearly even front/back.)
oh yea, im running the s&w arm, and im not sure how much longer this arm is than the jegster arm.... which i am running in my 4th gen car.

Shagwell

To some extent I agree with Diggler on the short arm, but I know of a very competitive drag radial car that is running the Jeg's arm with it down about 4" from the stock jegs mounting point, and I also think of ladded bars and how height effects them.

I've used this analogy before, but it always seems to ring true - My dad told me a long time ago, put a 10' piece of pipe in you belly button, reach out and grab it at arms' length and pick it up; is it easier to pick up from the ground or off the top of a table?

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

for a drag radial car i think i might prefer a shorter arm to plant the tires harder.... but the way i see my car right now, is it hits the tires harder than i need, and wants to go up on the bumper more than my liking. i have the front end limiters on the car, but i am willing to sacrifice some of that initial hit on the tires for more foward energy. i still think it would hook alright on these slicks.
torque arms are not like ladder bar suspensions, though... they do not transmit any foward force to the chassis. only the upward motion of the pinion. so the up/down adjustment on alot of these arms is nill. took me a long time to get a grasp on that as well. i think the madman arm has adjustment here, but he also said to adjust pinion angle on a flat level surface.... which is the completely wrong way of doing it. you should be able to adjust the angle on a 45 degree hill if you wanted to.
matter of fact, i just checked out a friends car... just sticking the angle finder to the rearend, it read 3 degrees of angle. but checking it the right way, it was actually 13 degrees! no wonder the car had wheelhop issues out the wazoo!

Shagwell

You are correct that tq arms do not transfer forward motion like ladder bars, but they act very similiar in how they leverage weight to plant the tires. The taller it is, the quicker it multpilies the weight leverage. - As for the car I referenced, he is the only one I know of running a short arm, and has talked about going to a longer arm. It flies when it works, but it is considerably less consistent at that kind of power level. He has to run the shocks a bit overly stiff, and that screws with their big-end tune.

I fully agree on the pinion angle. It seems some shops reccomend soley reading the actual pinion shaft angle, not accounting for the ds angle. - The biggest thing I see is to use the same method continuously while tuning the car.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

forgot to add, i also have a friend running radials on his 4th gen (402 lsx) with a reworked/fixed madman torque arm. he's been 5.50's @128 and 8.50's @159 running out of gear. this is on 28" radials, and a fogger/plate setup with no progressive. 3300# streetcar. hes got me wanting to try radials once i wear out these tires!

Shagwell

Radials are great, but they do require a bit different tune-up.

The car I'm speaking of runs in outlaw dr, and has been 4.70's in the 1/8.