Ok here is my car.
1988 Trans Am
Engine: 383c.i. stroker, 10:1 compression, LT1 intake port matched, 195cc aluminum trickflow ported heads, 230/236 comp cam,#30 svo injectors, BBK aluminum underdrive pulleys, Pertronix flamethrower distributor, Aluminum radiator, MAF Dyno tuned.
Drivetrain: TH350, 10" 3500 stall converter, with B&M mega shifter, B&M Tranny cooler, aluminum drive shaft, 12 bolt rear end w/ 3.73 gears, BFG drag radials.
Exhaust: Full length 1 3/4 hooker headers, 3.5" off road y-pipe, flowmaster cat back.
Chassis: Adjustable panhard bar, Poly A-arm bushings up front, Spohn adjustable rear lower control arms, Semi new rear shocks, Spohn sub-frame connectors.
Fuel: Walbro 255lph fuel pump with the hot wire kit.

Now my goal is to get into the 10's on motor and spray into the nines.
My options are to sell my car, get a newer LS1 car and drop an LS3 in it and build that up. Or I can stick with what I have, Forge the motor out, swith to
sd or carb, get a bigger cam, bump the compression up, Th400 transmision with 9inch converter, better cat back, and all other supporting mods like suspension and tires etc. Now I am trying to figure out which route will be easier and cheaper to go? Also if you have any recommendations on engine setup to get me into the tens. Thanks. Jamison

 

Third gens are MUCH easier to work on than 4th gens. I put a traditional Pontiac engine in a 96 Bird last year for my son. I had to remove some of the cowling to make room for the carb. NHRA doesn't allow cut stock windshields so we had to go with lexan. Can't be driven on the street anymore, even if we wanted to. Also haven't found a set of wheels that look good on the 4th gen. We'll probably end up front halfing the car this winter anyways. I think a 3rd gen makes a better race car than a 4th gen. At least it's a lot less work. I'd stay with the th350 or go to a glide, 400s are too heavy for me.

 

Yeah I thought about how much easier it will be to work on there are many pros and cons to both options. What kind of 383 engine combo will run mid 10's with the right car around it on just engine? I am going to have to use my trickflow 195's that have been ported to 200-205cc. You think you can get a th350 built to reliably handle that kind of power along with a good size nitrous hit? Also how many gears is a glide and how much do they cost? And does anyone know where to get a quality built automatic tranny? Thanks again.

 

glide = 2 gears: fast, faster

i personally like the idea of keeping the thirdgen...but have you thought about taking the ls3 powerplant idea and putting it into the thirdgen? since all of this is going to take a boat load of money anyhow, and since you're talking about this like you have an abundance of it, go ahead and do that! it'd be cool, unique, and if you spent some coin on a built 4l80e, then you could have a daily driveable car that runs some sick numbers.

then send some my way, i'm trying to run 11's with a 305

 

Yes this is going to cost alot of money but no I do not have an abundance of it. That is why I am trying to play my cards as smart as I can and take the easiest/cheapest route there. I have thought about dropping the ls3 in my car but that is $1000 dollars just for the wire harness and $500 for the tubular k member. I think if i go ls3 I am just gonna go next gen and have the motor be able to just drop in and have the plus of already have an ls1 break upgrade but I would have to get another rear end so it all evens out.

 

why do you need a tubular k-member? they make engine mounts that use the stock one for the lsX series motors...

 

Tubular cross member isn't REQUIRED, just shaves weight.

As for the wiring, you can splice the OEM harnesses together, saving more money.

Even if you spent $1500 on the subframe & harness, that's still cheaper than a whole new body. Can you buy a 4th gen for under $1500? Maybe a junker V6 (still need wiring for a V8), 1993....

It would be cheaper to stay with the body/chassis you already have, than start over.

 

The only way I would get a 4th gen is if I sold my car there fore not really spending money on it. I read somewhere that the k members in our cars are really tight to the oil pan on the lsx motors so I figured I would go tubular and as far as wiring I dont know if I want to mess with all of that and then get the build done just to start chasing wiring issues around if something was wrong. I am now thinking that maybe a 400 c.i sbc is they way to go and I could use my ported trickflow heads and swap over to carb to get away from the $500 dyno tunes.

 

We have a subforum dedicated to 4th gen engine swaps into 3rd gen cars. In that subforum we have a sticky detailing the LSx swap https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ltx-...want-swap.html .

Reading through that sticky, I don't see anything about such a problem (as long as you use an f-body oil pan).

AC compressor, yes. Oil pan, no.

 

Do you think a well built carbed 406 can get me into the 10's with the heads I have? Also doesn anyone know where to get a quality forged shortblock? Also with the LS3 I wouldnt be using A/C anyways so not a problem there.

 

those cylinder heads are gonna hold you back a bit, but with an efficient package (ie, correct suspenion/chassis tuning and gearing/converter combo) i think it'll do alright.

 

I am doing basically what you are talking about. LS3s are nothing more then a 6.0l with L92 heads. Which I am dropping in my thirdgen at the moment. The only difference between LS3 and L92 heads are the vavles. THese heads are a great stock once you dig into them they are ridicolous. I am going to be going thru Synergy Motorsports for the heads and cam.
Heres a link to the set up.
http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread...t=#post8048734

 

LS3 is gonna be hard to get into the 10's on motor anyway. L92 heads are finicky with cam choices. they flow like monsters but those large ports have slow velocity and cam choice will show that. not many guys doing that much more than 500whp out of L92 setups and thats on 400+ inch cars

L76 intake for those heads only peaks in the 6000 rpm range so they are not high revers

i'd say stick with what you have

solid roller that car, get better heads like trick flow 215's or FULLY port yours and hope for the best. Get that compression up to 11 to 1 or abit higher. LT1 intake ported can reach 10's on motor but carbed intake may be easier to do, tuning wise.

look to make well over 450whp and touch high 10's on motor for sure. Get that car in the 3300 lb range or less without you in it and it should fly

 

Yes I would love to go the ls3 route but I think that is going to run me more $. Now if I build a 406 sbc what compression should I aim for and if I go solid roller what are the pros and cons, I would still like to have a weekend warrior on the street.

 

my buddy 87 TA on this forum has a fairly mild 406 combo with a mild solid roller. 242/242 at .050" lift. AFR 195 heads, the old version not the new eliminators. something like 10.5 to 1 and he was doing 10.80's on motor and 10.0x's on a 150 shot lol. almost 9's. So if you want 9's 200 shot will be needed more than likely or more cam/better heads

I dont know how light his car was, i would say 3400 ish lbs with him in it. Typical thirdgen weight

 

Ok MY trickflows are ported so they are like 200-205cc, now if I go solid roller route what is the pros and cons of that will I be able to go for a cruise or two on the weekend still?
I planned on spraying a 200 shot so that should be good.

 

the cc of the intake runner is only part of it. do you have flow numbers for those cylinder heads? you're gonna need something that flows in the 270ish cfm range for your goals...maybe even higher.

 

No I dont have any flow numbers but I am starting to think that It might be easier to run in the 10's on motor with an LS3 considering I might have to get new heads and everything else.

 

I know you said AC wasn't a concern, but with AC, this is one way to fix that....

Other than using a F-Body oil pan on an LS angine, those are the only physical fitment issue I know of.

 

solid roller will require you to check valve train every 3000-5000 miles or so. IF you get modern designed solid roller lifters they will be fine for the street and cruising since they have oil holes in them that allow low rpm oiling

Solid roller swap tho will require alot of upgrades, pretty much new lifters, new cam, new valvesprings to match and depending on how wide your spring pockets are, machine work to the heads to allow atleast a 1.50" spring


LS3 i feel is in the same boat. to touch 10's in a 3400-3500 lb car thats setup properly to launch, i would think you need 430-450whp. 450 is a safe bet

you could get that with a fairly aggressive LS3 setup, but then i wouldnt spray it since stock internals probly wont handle it. You will need to build that LS3 up anyway i feel so might as well stick with what you have

solid roller 383 will reach 450whp. Most all out hydraulic roller setups reach 400-420whp. Thats where i expect mine to be and hope it does achieve that. I wish it was done so i would know exactly where to point you inorder to achieve your goals. But basically my 383 is 11 to 1 compression with a custom hyd. roller cam that has alot of lift and medium duration. I've seen smaller cams produce big numbers so i would expect my grind to really give me the power. I dont expect 10's on motor at all, but if i go mid lower 11's, I would know what to change inorder to get more power to go 10's on motor if it comes down to that.

I would think a AFR210 medium solid roller setup on a 383 will go high 10's and then 9's on a 200 juice drink

 

Well I added up an estimate cost to get an ls3 in my car forged with everything I want on it and it is about 10k with the headers and exhaust to go with it. So I am thinking if I go with a 406 solid roller setup and convert to carb if will probably be a little cheaper seeing as how I can use some of the stuff I have and dont have to redo everthing but my main concern is if my ported 195cc trickflows will hold me back from getting 10's on motor. They have a good port job on them and are probably 200cc.

 

hard to say what they flow. i would expect them to flow 270cfm at least if it was a good job. that will do it. But best to get them tested first to be sure

 

Hmmm....I know of a LS1/T56/4th gen rear axle equipped 3rd gen Camaro, that ran low 12s (12.16 IIRC), that was listed for $5000. dunno if he went down or got the asking price, but I know he didn't lose 5 thouand dollars on the sale either.

 

That estimate was with a forged 416 ls3 short block, ported l92 cylinder heads, l76 intake, injectors, coil packs and pulleys ect, cam, wire harness, and a stainless exhaust from headers back. I have also thinking that maybe the money I will save in gas with the ls3 is something to consider vs a 406 carbd combo since gas prices are going to be though the roof when the project is complete.

 

you can keep stock L92 heads. I've seen ported heads that only gained 10whp on a 408 LSx based motor. The ports are already pretty good from the factory.

Do some research on L92 grinds, and definately go custom grind for those heads if you do LS3 based motor. The streetability of fuel injection Lsx motors are unrivaled. If you go 416 inches you can easily get somewhere between 450-500whp with a good custom grind hydrualic roller. Go to LS1tech for some build ideas. I had a few links on 470-520whp L92 head motors.

Pricewise it seems it may be abit more expensive to do the LSx way, but its worth it since they have better tuneability than carb or 80's GM fuel management, and loads of aftermarket support.

oh and to mention you can sell off most of that 383 and get some good money back to help the LSx project.

also, where are you located, i have some good lsx buddies that may beable to help you out if your in the PA area

 

I am in upstate NY and my brother is into the LS scene with his car he is putting 440 to the wheels with an ls1 through 6 speed and 10 bolt. He is going to do my tuning for me if I go that route, thanks for the offer though. I would love to sell my parts but it seems like last time I listed some parts on here for sale there wasnt much activity, I have so many spare parts just lieing around lol. but if anyone is interested in any of my parts just let me know as im sure I will be deciding what I am going to do soon.

 

ebay helps things go faster i had injectors and balancer listed here for a month and i recently sold them on ebay in a week.
but yeah look into your bros build. see what times he is running and how heavy his car is. Thats a guide to what you need then.

 

Yeah he not running anything special with stock suspension, and street tires

 

haha whats the point of 440whp if you cant hook

has he ran it at all? what was his mph at the traps?
thats an indication of whats possible ET wise when properly setup

 

Yea he has run, I think he ran a 12.6 with a spongey clutch I cant remember his mph though, All I do remember is I couldnt hook up and I pulled 1.9 60 ft and then my trans decided to not shift into second when it should have. But my best time was a 13.0 and it was my first time at the track and I was foot braking. Would have gotten a high 12 time on that 1.9 60 but just wasnt my luck that day.

 

It's going to be mighty tuff to get a car in the 9s or 10s and worry about mpg. My 383 2840 lb car does 660s in the 1/8, hydraulic roller cam, on the motor. But I don't think it would be very fuel efficient. Awful exspensive to have your cake and eat it too. BUT IT CAN BE DONE. The heads you have now should be good for a decent running 383, with the right cam and compression. My car picked up 2.5 tenths just by going with a .025 thinner head gasket. Tunning is a big part on any combo that runs good.

 

My brother gets pretty good gas mileage in his ls1 car Ill have to ask him what it is and let you know.

 

were are you getting gas? personally i think they are already through the roof

 

Ok well I have decided to not sell my car and to work with what I got. First thing I am going to convert to a carb setup as I know that the MAF sensor is holding me back. Now does anyone know of any carbs and intakes that will fit my setup nicely? Also I plan on spraying a 100 shot and I dont have any forged peices just some hyper pistons so when the engine goes kaploowy I am either going to get an all forged 383 or 406 so if there are any carbs that will work on this 383 and be transferable to a possible 406 build that would help. I am now aiming for 11's on motor and 10's on spray.

 

i would imagine that a gasket matched victor jr would work just fine...actually, just a stock victor jr would net your initial goal of 11's on motor, 10's on spray.

as far as carbs go, it kinda depends on how much money you want to spend to just put it on and go, or how much you want to save to put it on and learn to tune. like a nice tuner's carb would be a proform or quickfuel 750-850 carb. one to plop on and go would include a call to Pro Systems.

 

fully ported performer rpm or go victor jr. even ported vic jr would be a benefit to you

 

the guy who had my car before with a 383 in it run 10.80 on motor. so it can be done and still was able to drive it on the street on weekend. also was fully load car.