IHI

iTrader: (1)

Shop i took my heads too finally got to them to fix after latest disaster and i took him 2 sets of valves to try. Stock replacements and high flow race valves, the race valves ended up flowing more than the stock replacements natrually but even then the flow #'s are a joke...my old out of box, nothing special AFR 210's out flowed these new Brodix 227 100% cnc'd units upto .600 lift and then these heads were only 15 cfm better..at .750 lift....last i checked i've never run and never plan to run a cam over .700 lift so that does me no good.

I had serious reservations about purchasing these brodix since they as well as dart are notorious for inflating numbers on their products....they dont actually lie since they do flow test, but the kicker is they flow these sbc heads on a 4.5" bore....when the last time you seen a sbc with a 4.5" bore??? but that's how they get the numbers they publish to suck you for a purchase...my old AFR 210's were within 1-2cfm on my head shops superflow bench of what AFR advertised....so basically i offed a good set of heads, spent $1K more to basically stay where i was at initally....nice. The shop thinks they can hog the snot out of them and get them peaked out in the 330cfm range @.750 and natually bring up low lift numbers as well, but WTF...here goes another $1200 to fix the heads from prior damage, hog them out, install new springs for new grind

This was my first brodix purchase and last, I should went with AFR 227's instead, but did'nt want to pay another $800 for pistons to make them work due to their 60/40 valve spacing...wish i woulda now. Me personally, I would rather make a purcahse knowing what Im getting as opposed to the typical smoke and mirrors these companies pull on consumers.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

So essentially you could have gone the same ET and mph on this new build with your old AFRs, or possibly faster due to more port velocity from smaller port sizes?

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Based on flow numbers alone I surely did'nt go any faster with these heads in the current 100% CNC'd form which one would think would produce good numbers, or at least "as advertised" numbers. Once these heads have all the ports hogged/cleaned up, new race valves installed, only then will there be a pay off in larger runner size, but head for head....save your money on these joke azzz 100% big runnered brodix and get yourself a set of smaller runnered AFR's for alot less money and be at the same ET/mph when your done.

My gut told me not to waste my time/money on anything other than AFR's, but based on some feedback from other racers i thought these new ones would be the hot ticket....but just like I've stated before to others contemplating head purchases....think about the big picture, not only did i get screwed by the machine shop, i got screwed since now I have a set of $2300 heads that will now have a total of $3100 invested in them to make them "a bit better" than $1500 AFR's.....

If they flow what the shop thinks they can get out of them, and the new grind is as nasty as he's thinking he will spec, so long as i get a convertor that hits the mark and works with my weird combo of small engine, lots of tq/hp, and heavy car...I should be close to knocking on the 9 second zone N/A through the pipes, once i add juice to the mix I'm shooting for the low 9 second zone...but we shall see, not getting my hopes up anymore at this point...

EvilCartman

iTrader: (1)

Well that bites the big one I'm sticking with AFR for future builds unless they start going to chit.

ross

Do you mind posting the flow #s I like AFR heads and have had good luck with them but I have been let down on flow #s from them and CFE on small block heads the afr 215 race head did not flow any better than there 195 heads for me and I flow on the same bench every time with a 4.155 bore @ 28"

5678TA

i was in the same boat as you.. had a set of deeply ported camel backs on a awesome cam/intake/carb combo that went 12.7 first time out on a miss-shift.. that motor was a torque monster.. threw on my brodix racerite 200's with a larger cam and lower compression and struggled to hit 12's.. toasted a cam due to the roller springs they come with(i didnt do my homework), had to spend the extra $$ for new valvetrain.. but now, with half a point more compression, more tuning and better traction, i am where i am today.. i was frustrated with brodix because I didnt have a combo to compliment the heads.. i'm happy now..

on a side note, when inspecting the brodix heads, there are MANY places that could improve flow.. they are rated at 266cfm @ .600" intake and 179cfm @.600" exhaust.. they are working pretty damn well for that weak of flow numbers..

WheelsUp84z

iTrader: (2)

Josh, you're old hyper slugged 388 is what inspired me to go with the AFR's, i got the 210 competition cnc ported ones and have heard nothing but good things about them, im hoping to go low 11's NA with them and a mild 10.5:1 383 and hyd. flat tappet cam in the 240* range. Sorry to hear about you're luck seems as this whole combo venture has just been a complete nightmare. First with the assembly problems, then with the sheared crank, and now the heads....DAMN! I hope things start working out for you in the near future, i always look forward to reading about you're dragstrip trips!

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Im hoping my luck turns for the better too LOL. I'm good freinds with a husband wife team from MN that race and they've been fighting bugs like crazy this year too, and we often talk about just having a bon fire and throwing $100 bills into it instead since the result is the same as sinking money into these race motors But like i told him, I/they have been extremely lucky in the big picture, all my previous motors have run for long durations without problems, won a ton of races, gave lots of street smiles so i guess this was just bound to happen so i could "pay my dues" i guess, i would'nt care about blowing an engine, but when the crank snaps like my past 2, it wipes out everything...literally, so here we go from square one again.

The flow numbers I was told over the phone 2 days ago and i just happened to be in my office and grabbed my old AFR flow sheet to compare while he read off the brodix numbers, to say my heart sank at every increment was an understatement...worst part is with latest investment to get it going i coulda had the 18* stuff i was contemplating, or even a 800hp BBC that was supposed to be the next resurection if fixing this sbc got to a certain $$ amount...I'll be about a grand more than i want to spend to fix it, but right now the market for sbc stuff, esspecially 23* stuff is slim so it kind forces my hand to fix what i got and try to make it run even harder. I dont have much time for in town driving like i used to, and that's what made me decide to just go all out with the resurection.

As soon as i get black and white copies of flow sheet on the brodix T1 227 100% CNC'd heads I'll post a link for them as well as the old AFR 210 castings I had on the 388 for comparison...my first and last set of any heads other than AFR unless i get rich and can buy some exotic stuff in the 15-12* range but a BBC is definately next on the agenda after this 427 sb gets sorted out. got my headers, just need the engine...actually have a nice 468 short block in my garage we're building for a freind that wants to drop it in the birdie, but dont want to buy 2 motors if something goes wrong with his bbc while it's in my car.

did go race the truck tonight at the all night street drags, got to see boobies in the flag girl competition but lost to a huge double break out 2nd round...oh well, took .03 stripe standing on the binders and it was .01 too much.

BlueBeast

wow man I am sorry to hear about this, I hate hearing things like this cause we all know what it takes to race. I am glad I went with the AFR's.

car_fixer

i got a pair of afr 220 heads, just changed about everything under them except the block , switched to a solid roller, then found what i hope you dont, that the valve and the piston want to occupy the same space (while assembleing didnt have all the parts when i mocked it up) I have a silly question, what intake are you using? I recently spent like 6 hours working on my intake , matching ports and what not (on the plenum side) i then figured out i should just built a sheet metal intake and put fi on it and 2 or three stages of nitrous it would have been easier...well almost. I was going to build a 427 sb (15 to 1 comp...race car who cares about pump gas) and have some fun without the lauging gas but stuck with a 1 piece rear main 350 with 300 plus degrees or duration (advertised) and .720 lift so i can use some of the flow on the afrs. so check and make shure you have suffficant valve clearance when you get it assembled since i saw something about a nasty cam, my guess would be .....288/296 and a 106 sep?, unless you spray alot (250 plus) then widen that a bit to @112 howd i do?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

i have seen some numbers on the T1's before and wasnt impressed. i'm considering Dart platinum pro 1's but now i'm sketchy on those. magazine articles show decent numbers but you cant always trust those magazines. AFR's are only about 200 bucks more so maybe its money well spent

car_fixer

most magazine articles are paid advertisements, they are basically there to sell stuff......so the company advertises and then they get more money from them....sux cant even get fair info

IHI

iTrader: (1)

The piston to valve with the old cam was plenty good, cam was misealy sized 252/262 .625/.625 on a 108LSA, want to say i had a couple hundreths clearance but cant recall right now, just know i was stupidly far away considering the purpose of the engine. The shop that's going to go through all this mess and make it right will be specing the cam, that is why all the parts are heading north this friday so he can see exactly what parts i have and will be able to measure up how large we can go...i told him i dont want valve spring eating specs, but if i can go a season/year on a set of springs, then so be it, everything internally is ready for stupidity strength wise, and if it hits, he'll just have to degree the cam so it will work, or order a new stick..either way, it's on him, not me..i just need to race again..going through a serious withdrawl over here.

I'm just running a super vic with a 2" open spacer. I gasket matched the ports and cleaned them up a bit, but spent alot of time opening up the under carb area since that is so roughly cast from most all common manufacturers it's sick. /i have no idea what this did, good or bad. I know my last 388 I had to replace/reseal front/rear of intake to block, so i spent about an hour gasket matching and cleaning under carb area which netted a solid and consistant 1.5mph afterwards...so that was time well spent imo..even though the carbides and sanding rolls are expensive, but now i have the carbides for the rough in and sanding rolls are cheap

Any of you guys buying some of the "common" and "popular' heads, spend the extra $80 and have them flow tested, I think your going to get a pit in your gut when you compare advertised claims to actual flow specs of your heads....it aint pretty. I've heard a few guys complain AFR did'nt flow on their dyno as advertised, but it's only rare instances and it could be the way they flow it and their bench too, so i take that with a grain of salt. But most of the guys boosting dart/brodix will rebutt against the BS flow numbers with: "they give you enough material so you can do what you want with them" to which i say is a bunch of crap..i bought the heads based on flow numbers advertised, if i wanted to work on soemthing i'd just buy a chunk of aluminum block and griind on it myself..i'm spending $2K plus for ahead that by rights should easily make 700hp, but as they ended up, immposible without more work, which means more money invested into them...like i said, nothing but afr from here on out for me, even when i build my bbc.

EvilCartman

iTrader: (1)

A shop did that on a friends engine, end result was a '66 tube chassis chevelle that only ran a 12.35 pass. He was ticked off and ripped the engine out to start over again.

ross

Were you able to find the flow sheet?

IHI

iTrader: (1)

The shop the heads are at is 3 hours north of me, i have a guy i race with running interference, shuffling my junk north when they come down to race. He took the heads up a few weeks ago, and they're coming back down this weekend and will take my new crank (hopefully it shows tomorrow as planned) along with the rest of my engine so the shop can get that going. He's also taking the 468 and the rest of those parts north too so we can get that put together as a back up.

I could probably get him to fax the sheet down to me, but honestly I'm not too concerned with it until i go up when it's dyno time and then I'll bring everything back home and will post from there, but it'll probably be the end of the month if I'm lucky, so it'll be a bit before i have stuff "in hand" so to speak..lost all faith in machine shops locally. Lots of mud packers around here, and all but one machine shop is set up with the mentality of "good enough" and they dont keep up with aftermarket stuff like they should since 99% of their customer base cant run it, cant afford to run it, or is looking to "just get by with what we have"...so the local shops have all pigeion holed themselves into being shoddy. Hence having to go out of town..actually state to get thigns done with a "drag racer mentality"

unknown_host

iTrader: (1)

My Dart 220R heads were the same way. We ported the **** out of them just to get close to the advertised out of the box numbers.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

just dropped off my engine and my buddies engine at the "leapfrog point" this am...hopefully if all goes well, it two weeks i'll have some better hp/tq numbers than the last time and maybe it will last....should get the flow sheet as well when i go to dyno also.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

good luck josh, hopefully it turns out for the best. I'm struggling with poor ETs this year too